Also, don’t overlook the importance of California when it comes to recruiting for both WSU and OSU. IMO there is no way they will want to give up their California presence and staying west coast based for the AAC.
Merger?? Really
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Meaning what? That they don't want to go to the AAC? At this point, it seems to me like they'll go to the following:
1. Any conference that will be considered a power 5 (or however many conferences it ends up being)
2. If they can't get into #1, then where they can get the most money in the long term. That's where it gets tricky. The AAC seems like they'd get more money initially, but the MWC media deal is up in 2 years, and it can be renegotiated at that time. Who knows, maybe it can be renegotiated earlier, but the AAC deal has much longer to go.
3. Ideally, they want to stay more regional for travel in sports, especially the non-football sports. It costs way more in both time and budget to fly across the country than to fly to CA, AZ, NV, ID, etc.
Well Hell.
Kirk Schulz: No financial windfall coming for remaining Pac-12 members
WSU president details what he would have done differently if the last year could replayed247sports.com
PS: Our Lady Rebel Volleyball team beat Colorado 3-1 in Boulder, CO tonight. Nice job.
I didn't know if we merged then we could immediately renegotiate the TV deal.
Losing SMU will hurt the AAC, especially with the recent defections to the Big 12. Not sure where their TV deal would remain, but would a new MW/PAC merger TV negotiate offer enough of an upgrade that we could add AAC teams?
Obviously the worst part of a Merger is keeping the "dead weight" teams in terms of contract negotiations. If the Pac decided to rebuild from scratch it could eliminate those teams and potentially raise the TV contract per school, but again you would have to kill the MW outright, selecting enough teams to do it, though selecting the top 9 markets would work.
But if you did that you run the risk of not having a current TV deal already that could be renegotiated like would be the case with a more traditional merger.
Weird times.
Either way it looks like UNLV may be getting some more money out of the TV deal? Unless the PAC rebuilds with mostly AAC teams, takes away SDSU, inherently weakening out TV contract, and stealing any replacements that we would select to try to offset our loss.
Now that I write that, that is probably what will happen, lol.
Losing SMU will hurt the AAC, especially with the recent defections to the Big 12. Not sure where their TV deal would remain, but would a new MW/PAC merger TV negotiate offer enough of an upgrade that we could add AAC teams?
Obviously the worst part of a Merger is keeping the "dead weight" teams in terms of contract negotiations. If the Pac decided to rebuild from scratch it could eliminate those teams and potentially raise the TV contract per school, but again you would have to kill the MW outright, selecting enough teams to do it, though selecting the top 9 markets would work.
But if you did that you run the risk of not having a current TV deal already that could be renegotiated like would be the case with a more traditional merger.
Weird times.
Either way it looks like UNLV may be getting some more money out of the TV deal? Unless the PAC rebuilds with mostly AAC teams, takes away SDSU, inherently weakening out TV contract, and stealing any replacements that we would select to try to offset our loss.
Now that I write that, that is probably what will happen, lol.
The only way a merger is going to happen is if the MW goes all in with all teams. I don't think we would get the votes to dissolve the MW otherwise. The other issue is there isn't enough time to legally do a merger when the Pac# is going to have legal issues for a long time settling their money. The cleanest most expeditious route is for OSU and WSU to join the MWC. The media rights we will work to make better. Then we can look at expanding to include some AAC teams or some non football schools.
It's ironic that some +20 years ago the "breakaway 8" left the WAC to form the MWC because they believed that a smaller conference would get them more money with the best of the WAC 16. Look how well that worked out. When I think about that I say lets keep the MWC together. All of us plus OSU and WSU. Then look at options to make the MWC stronger with some selective additions.
Very insightful and I agree. Also, there were a couple of articles actually recognizing that the old WAC-16 was ahead of its time and it was a mistake at the time to break it up.
This is not attractive to tv at all. What is attractive is top 5 of mwc, aac, and pac2. That would be a 12 team good league. If you want to expand to 16, that could work also.
I wouldn't say that the MW breaking away from the old WAC was a failure at all. I would say it was a success. The remaining WAC struggled while the MW thrived as a top G5 conference. Utah shined as it got into a power conference, TCU did the same, but only after they later joined the MW. BYU was a somewhat questionable move but ultimately it worked out for them.TV wise, the downfall was not being in ESPN anymore. Monetarily it was an upgrade. Though RB contracts have changed a ton since then. Hard to really even compare in. Such a different environment.
The old WAC was ahead of its time just in structure alone, but it was too big and it had a lot of fat on it. Especially for a non power conference. In today's world it would dilute TV contract money. Plus the extra travel costs may not be worth it.
I agree. I think you can't just throw out members, which is what is the downfall of a simple merger. Because of the fat and the reduced contract money. The remaining PAC teams are already are looking at a huge loss in TV money per team. That's why the PAC building from scratch may be the way to go, though much more complicated, but that would be probably the way to maximize potential per team. Also the remaining 2 PAC teams could set it up where they get larger shares as established members, which could work as long as the new teams are getting an upgrade in money.
I'm not saying that is what i think ultimately will happen. But I think the remaining PAC teams are really thinking about it.
If a merger does happen I'm ok with adding teams to strengthen the conference, but I dont think it will happen unless it helps the bottom line. Also it is true that adding basketball only members may not move the TV contract needle that much, but having more tournament teams do bring in big money and would be worth it. Especially Gonzaga which would likely advance.
Also, again I don't know the rules, but it seems to me that the remaining members have a stake to the entire PAC money pot both existing and NCAAT only if they remain a conference. The other teams voluntarily left and left that money behind. If OSU and WSU also join a new conference I think it opens a door for the other former members to stake a claim to that money. Since all members would have left the conference at that time. A 'merger' where they retain the PAC name makes that a bit more cloudy. But just joining the MW is a tougher sell from them to keep all the money I would think. Though they were left in a pickle, that's for sure.
With word out there now that if a deal isn't struck with the ACC the B12 has changed its tune and may consider the remaining Pac4 schools. I'm staying tuned to see if this happens this week. Either the ACC makes the right decision or lets the B12 create a super conference. If the B12 wins we can forget merger or whatever scenario we were hoping for.
I don't know if the B12 talk is legit. Someone could be blowing smoke ......again. Just get this shyt over with.
I don't know if the B12 talk is legit. Someone could be blowing smoke ......again. Just get this shyt over with.
The WSU President has already said the remaining members DO NOT have a stake to the entire PAC money pot. It was written into their conference laws that the money would be divided evenly for the 12 members. I'm pretty sure I posted that link earlier.
I just hope the ACC resolves their issue with Stanford and Cal so we can get a better picture of where we think things for the MWC might evolve. I'm leaning towards OSU and WSU joining the MWC. I'm not confident in a merger at this point. I could end up wrong and I don't mind being wrong if that happens.
You are looking throw it in the lens of 2023. When the WAC 16 broke up in 1998 there was no P5. In 1998 UNLV was not far removed from a national championship and was still considered a national program and the featured program on ESPN Big Monday. Utah was a national program under Majerus and went to the final 4 the year the WAC broke up. BYU was actually much better then than they are today in football under Coach LaVelle Edwards and had won a national championship in the 80’s. Tark was at Fresno and they were good. New Mexico in basketball was very good and ranked. Tubbs was at TCU and they were very good. SMU and Hawaii were good in hoops. Tulsa was decent under Bill Self. Although at the end of his career Hall of Fame Coach Don Haskins was still at UTEP and they were decent. The 3 Texas schools, SMU, TCU and Rice came from the South West Conference which wasn’t considered mid-major that included the Dallas and Houston media markets. Also, in football in 1998 Colorado State 15, Wyoming 25, and Air Force 13 were all ranked during the season. The WAC 16 was a good conference!
Moreover, the wide gap you see today between the P5 or now P4 because of TV exposure and money didn’t exist. For example, UNLV at the time never had to recruit against a school and lose just because of conference affiliation in hoops like it does today.
The point that was being made was in the article was that if the WAC 16 stayed together there was a good chance because of performance in football and basketball, number of schools (power in numbers) and the foot print in major markets (California and Texas) they had a shot at having a seat at the table similar to the Big East at the time and when the BCS and P6 started in football. IMO that argument had merit.
In my not so humble opinion, if I am the Big 12, I don't want any of those 4 at this time. If I did, I would not want it known, to give any of those 4 leverage with the ACC. I think those two (s and c) are blowing smoke to the press. Cal and Stanford are giving themselves repeated self inflicted injuries due to their elitism and arrogance with respect to sports. If the Big 12 wants them, they have the leverage to sit back and wait.
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If I was big 12. I sure would rather have sdsu, csu, unlv, and fresno/byu vs the bottom of the pac.
I assume that you meant bsu, not byu. We agree on this one. My small business teamed with both the University of Utah (my alma mater) and Stanford U on AI research proposals to the federal government. I have great respect for Stanford as a university. However, the attitudes of the athletic departments of both Cal and Stanford are a major cause of the death of the Pac conference. They maintained their elitism, while doing less with more and overvalued their contribution and worth. I believe that their inclusion within some athletic conferences may be toxic.
But Tim, you are also assuming the WAC would have stuck together?
The BCS created the dlineation of the Power 6 (remember the old Big East) in 98. The Old WAC was on the outside looking in, which no doubt helped prompt the creation of the MW.
Truth is good teams and good coaches would have still bolted. Tark was going to retire, etc
Bill Self left for Illinois in 2000. You think he would have stuck around in the old WAC? Hell no. Utah, TCU, BYU would have left eventually. Though it is arguable if those teams would have risen to that same prominence if they stayed in the WAC, especially with football ( which did write their tickets out of the conference). And then it would a too big shell of a conference. All of the promoted teams rose their profile through the MW.
I agree it was a different time then , but it would not have lasted the past 10 years. The new age of TV contracts would have caught up to them. There are some good markets on those teams, but Tulsa and UTEP aren't great, Rice is in a great market but 5th or 6th in terms of popularity within that market, Hawaii causes problems for everyone as a full sport member. There are some logistical nightmares there. I don't think that there is way they could have kept it up to be remotely competitive in terms of TV money with 16 teams or dare I say 13 (very spread out mind you) after the departures of the 3.
But sure, If you were to take teams of the old WAC 16 and assemble them today, it would have an argument for a seat at the auto football bid table, now that the football playoffs are expanding. But it would be one dedicated seat at that table. No way you are getting more than one. And would that be a good thing for UNLV?
I just don't agree with the sentiment that forming the MW was a bad thing. 90% of the good teams, and eventually added the remaining good teams down the road. Re-assembling it today seems a bit silly. How about we re-assemble back when it had Arizona and Arizona State?
It's good to hear that at least one person at Wazzu was pleased with the presentation. I had read a WSU News item about the meeting but, I didn't get a sense of how Gloria's presentation went. Hopefully she did well at OSU today.
Did a college tour of UNLV today with my son. 30K students with top notch facilities. We have also toured Duke and UNC as well Bryant, NC State, Maine and Maryland. Our facilities aren’t the first group but they are substantially better than the second. Can’t figure out why our sports program doesn’t match. It can only be either indifference or gross incompetence.
From Twitter
Washington State president Kirk Schulz said 'Plan A' is still a rebuild: "We still want to figure out what we might be able to do along with OSU and perhaps Cal and Stanford (depending on ACC decision)... about keeping the band together and see what that next step looks like." Schulz said "merger or combination" with other schools/conferences is still on the table for the remaining Pac-2/4 schools. He pumped the brakes on the timeline. Feels like it could be a month before WSU/OSU get clarity. Schulz has marked Oct. 1 on his calendar.
Schulz: "They feel pretty strongly that if you add a couple of schools, guess what, maybe we have easier access to the football playoffs than some of the P4 leagues might have where there are 20 schools or 18 schools all vying for a spot or two."
Washington State president Kirk Schulz said 'Plan A' is still a rebuild: "We still want to figure out what we might be able to do along with OSU and perhaps Cal and Stanford (depending on ACC decision)... about keeping the band together and see what that next step looks like." Schulz said "merger or combination" with other schools/conferences is still on the table for the remaining Pac-2/4 schools. He pumped the brakes on the timeline. Feels like it could be a month before WSU/OSU get clarity. Schulz has marked Oct. 1 on his calendar.
Schulz: "They feel pretty strongly that if you add a couple of schools, guess what, maybe we have easier access to the football playoffs than some of the P4 leagues might have where there are 20 schools or 18 schools all vying for a spot or two."
Schulz has to talk this way. A lot of WSU fans are not happy with him and wouldn't mind seeing him hit the road. I'm still leaning towards ACC picking up Cal and Stanford. As for what happens next I'm hoping the MWC plays a part in it. One way or another.
I can see why with a statement like this "P4 leagues" instead of P5! It sounds like he has already conceded! SMDFH
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I mean, whats there to concede... Its pretty obvious even if the PAC 12 could recreate itself with members from other conferences, it wouldnt have the same strength it once had and the other 4 conferences arent going to allow them to stay with the group when playoffs are considered... The decision to break apart the Pac12 was the end of the P5...
The ACC meeting is now set for tomorrow morning..
www.cbssports.com
ACC presidents reschedule expansion meeting following on-campus shooting at North Carolina, per reports
ACC presidents were set to potentially vote on expansion prior to the on-campus shooting
www.cbssports.com
