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CSU/USU suing MW over exit fees

M
"all the while sitting on a monetary war chest they could use to destroy the MW"

Thats the issue and I think discovery on this case will be very interesting... mostly because i dont think they are sitting on the war chest that everyone thinks. That money is needed for the 2 schools left behind. Its not just money they're holding onto to go buy a conference. They dont want to help pay exit fees or these poaching fees because that takes away from their (OSU/WSU) bottom lines and its money they dont actually currently have. They cant actually spend the money they dont have between the NCAA credits and CFP payouts. Additionally, until they become an official 8 member conference they cant spend any of the money they have- since if they fail to meet the requirements of a conference by 2026 that money goes to everyone equally. Yes, they have the 65 million from the departing schools and whatever was left over from their media rights(minimal I'm guessing) but its not the full dolar amount at least not right now that people assume and with all the promises for helping schools fund their fees, the poaching agreement, etc, they arent exactly sitting on a real pile of cash to pay those. Thats why they are all suing.
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CSU/USU suing MW over exit fees

oneepstein
dcut03 said:
You may be right. Personally I don't see how the argument against the poaching fees holds up at all, but I do think they are trying to pile on the MW with several fronts. It is not like the MW has a ton of money or man power to fight these things. We also don't have a ton of money. In fact the conference has basically promised a bunch of this fee money before we have received it.

Will the MW balk at that? Maybe not, but I think the PAC thought it was worth the tactic. They have the money to fight this more than we do.

My guess is the poaching fees hold up, but they will try to use that against the MW when it comes to exit fees. An average of 11mil per school is actually on the high end of exit fee given our media value already. These are separate issues, but I think it may help talk the exit fee down a bit more than if the poaching fees didn't exist.
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It’s an interesting argument, re: talking the exit fees down on account of the poaching fees. Sort of feels like a double dip, but then again as you point out, separate issues.

The exit fees were agreed to years prior by all parties involved. Are they egregious? It might appear so, BUT I think a very good argument could be made as to WHY they are what they are, and we need look no further than the actions that Boise and SDSU have taken in the recent past.

(Total side note: shouldn’t Boises exit fee be higher than the others on account of them getting more money annually?)

When these fees were agreed to the MW was fighting all these external conference realignment battles and needed a way to protect ALL of its members against departures. It was probably also never thought that it would happen THIS way with 5 members all at once.

I guess maybe ask this question… would anyone think the fee is egregious if it was just Boise State leaving? As the most valuable brand I don’t think anyone would think twice that it was fair.

Again, I don’t think any of the departing teams (aside from Boise and maybe SDSU) thought this pertained to them, and if it did by some small chance it would mean they were going to a P5, and who cares at that point?

So they may still get negotiated down, but I don’t think there too much of a legal argument against them, and a pretty sound argument for them. The specific scenario where 5 teams leave wouldn’t have been a consideration to be made, and the MW can’t be liable due to it… in my non lawyer opinion.

As for the poaching fees…

The PAC2 are trying to claim that they were “taken advantage of”… all the while sitting on a monetary war chest they could use to destroy the MW. Their actions basically PROVE the case against them.

They can TRY to point to the “big scary” number as somehow being “unfair”, but I don’t see that as being a sound argument either.
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CDM Era: Transfer Portal and Recruits Thread

Rosegreen1
unlove said:
Wouldn’t be shocked if he returns. Not easy to move a family around the country especially if only for one year. And isn’t his family in nearby Cali? DeJesus has the potential to flourish even more under a CDM offense.
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Depends on the bag. Theoretically the family doesn’t have to move and he can just support them from wherever.
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CDM Era: Transfer Portal and Recruits Thread

Rebel1986
While Las Vegas may not offer as good of an NIL deal as some of the bigger programs, Las Vegas does have the money and companies to set up players after retirement, which they have done for many of the former UNLV basketball players. If he is looking to set up his family, Dejesus would be better off to stay and have another great year
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Army and UNLV

Rebel1986
WarthogRebel said:
This is absolutely true. In the coming years if you aren't in a power conference it won't make a difference where you are. Revenue sharing begins next year. It starts at $ 20.5 million per school distributed to the students (if you have it) and I believe it will only go up. That will be added to NIL which is exploding. The next set of P4 TV contracts will be gigantic and concentrate media viewing across the nation on P4 programs. As this becomes normal, the have nots will be left completely behind and become irrelevant on the national scene. (Similar to D2/D3 now) A program in our position needs to spend every penny and take every chance to get in. If you don't get in it won't make any difference.
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My expectation is that it is going to go in the other direction. The way college football is going will ultimately alienate a large amount of the viewing public, and as games go more and more to streaming, the general public will either not watch football at all, which in many ways has already happened, or they will watch only the team they support. Since traditional TV and cable are shrinking, there will be that point where the huge sums of money being paid to the major conferences will start to dry up.
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Let’s talk Deion Sanders..

M
Rosegreen1 said:
Only slightly and it’s the MW. Odom was 2-8 vs anyone in the top 50. Zero ranked wins, zero bowl wins, 0-3 vs Boise, 0-2 in championship games.

When the games mattered, it wasn’t good for Odom. Odom got lucky it was a poor coaching market and his agent told him it’s time to grab the bag.


That being said, we got a coach that’s better than both of them combined and has a track record of winning bowl games and winning games that matter.
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Against much better coaching... Dan was HC when Saban was in his prime, Prime Les Miles, Ed O at LSU, Kirby Smart and Mark Richt... thats who you are coaching against and recruiting against and won 103 games... getting top 10 rankings and 7 Bowl wins including the Orange bowl
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4 Star visit

M
rebneck said:
Percy was a Gator under Urban Meyer.
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and who pray tell was the OC at Florida?

Also another WR to note that had incredible numbers at Florida under Dan who is 6'-0" was Kadarious Toney. Speedy quick versatile WRs flourish in this offense. Also at Utah, while he wasnt the OC, this system used 2 small WRs (5'-11 and 6'-1") in 2004 with Alex Smith at QB- one had over a thousand yards receiving and the other pretty close. Its designed to allow these speedier WRs to flourish and catch balls in the flat. Weve all see the spread offense for years so its no secret, but under Dan these speedy guys take it to different levels.
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Miss State

RebelinWA
Masked_rebel said:
You get a lot of chaos as the offensive line and QB dont know whos is coming or dropping into coverage at the snap. Sometimes you get 6 or 7 guys on the line and 3 or 4 drop into coverage, sometimes they all come. Its a really aggressive defensive philosophy and really shines at these mid-level conferences who can get smaller faster defenders that might get over shadowed at bigger P4 schools. You get a ton of versatility and is very well suited for the offenses we see in the MWC.
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Lots of flexibility. With the exception of the front 3, everyone else is usually a fast guy. Pull a guy forward, and you can show a 4 front look. Drop a guy back and you have a 3-2-6 look.

The varying looks get confusing for an offense, and it can leave lanes of attack open.

Specifically for Arnett, his last season as DC at Mississippi state showed a defense that was similar to this season of UNLV’s this season, except against 6 ranked teams.
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Let’s talk Deion Sanders..

Rosegreen1
j. spilotro said:
yeah, we paid 3x less for Odom, got way more in return unless your primary value on a coach is headlines.

And yeah, CU sucked the past couple of decades, but they have a much richer history, following and backing than UNLV. And CU had two top 5 NFL picks as team leaders.

Odom FTW vs Sanders in their two years.
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Only slightly and it’s the MW. Odom was 2-8 vs anyone in the top 50. Zero ranked wins, zero bowl wins, 0-3 vs Boise, 0-2 in championship games.

When the games mattered, it wasn’t good for Odom. Odom got lucky it was a poor coaching market and his agent told him it’s time to grab the bag.


That being said, we got a coach that’s better than both of them combined and has a track record of winning bowl games and winning games that matter.
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Army and UNLV

RebelinWA
WarthogRebel said:
This is absolutely true. In the coming years if you aren't in a power conference it won't make a difference where you are. Revenue sharing begins next year. It starts at $ 20.5 million per school distributed to the students (if you have it) and I believe it will only go up. That will be added to NIL which is exploding. The next set of P4 TV contracts will be gigantic and concentrate media viewing across the nation on P4 programs. As this becomes normal, the have nots will be left completely behind and become irrelevant on the national scene. (Similar to D2/D3 now) A program in our position needs to spend every penny and take every chance to get in. If you don't get in it won't make any difference.
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Your post is right, but I believe 20.5m is the starting cap. Its based on a % of total athletic revenue that can be distributed and is separate from NiL.

We can’t afford to be left off the gravy boat.
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Army and UNLV

WarthogRebel
dcut03 said:
Again, I agree. Worth the risk. But a lot has to go right for a B12 invite to actually happen.
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This is absolutely true. In the coming years if you aren't in a power conference it won't make a difference where you are. Revenue sharing begins next year. It starts at $ 20.5 million per school distributed to the students (if you have it) and I believe it will only go up. That will be added to NIL which is exploding. The next set of P4 TV contracts will be gigantic and concentrate media viewing across the nation on P4 programs. As this becomes normal, the have nots will be left completely behind and become irrelevant on the national scene. (Similar to D2/D3 now) A program in our position needs to spend every penny and take every chance to get in. If you don't get in it won't make any difference.
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CSU/USU suing MW over exit fees

RebelinWA
dcut03 said:
I was not trying to sound contradictory there, actually it is the same point. My argument was that our numbers were not good enough, because IF they were, why snuff us out? Does that make sense? I don't think any sort of perceived jealousy would trump earning potential for everyone.


Is there some sort of jealously and fear of UNLV/Las Vegas? Maybe. But I think it was 90% based off of their original media partners and their "metrics" that we all laugh about. Look at the numbers that we can see, and UNLV is not in the top. Simple as that. We don't see all of the Ratings data either. We can use attendance as a guide, but their aren't the same thing. Us UNLV fans tend to over rate our school. We do it with our players, our coaches, our teams, and our media worth. Sometimes we have to read between the lines. We have been in talks with the Big 12 ever since the Fertitta Complex was under construction. We have had meeting with their brass a few times trying to sell UNLV. We haven't been in their top 8 before when it came to expansion. We were not in the top group for the PAC. Why? Because though there is potential here, UNLV's market penetration has not been good. The results are what they are.

Which brings me to Utah State? Yes they are third fiddle to BYU and Utah, but perhaps they have decent TV numbers anyway. AFA was left out because I think military academies have a bit of a ceiling. They potentially have a national fan base, but I think AFA is a distant 3rd to Army and Navy based off of people who serve.

The only way I think some conferences are "afraid" of Vegas is that having a home team there makes conference championships muddy. I think is hurts us as much as it helps us.


I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here. I think the PAC 2 know better than anyone how you can't count on exit fees. They just went through that process and settled for 65% of a very reasonable exit fee. I'm sure that plays a role in terms of all of this. As for the poaching fees? I don't know what happens there. I do think dragging things out helps them if that answers the question. By slowly adding on lawsuits from the poaching and the exit fees I think they are just trying to overwhelm the MW to force some settlements.


I generally agree. A merged PACWEST would have a better overall brand. But that isn't the goal. The goal is to maximize the bottom line. So these moves were made for that reason almost alone. I think they signed the poaching fee agreement with full intention of merging, but once they saw the projected numbers on media value, they retracted. The PAC 2 was working of their value from previous media negotiations and it was too hard to swallow.
So cherry pick the best markets and most of the best brands. Sure they are regional, but again not sure how much that matters. I don't think that a ton of people care about SDSU vs CSU vs SJSU and AFA around the country. But I think the SDSU vs CSU game gets significantly more eyeballs because those programs have stronger fan bases.

Obviously things have not gone to plan with the PAC, but I don't think things are as dire as everyone else things
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I can say that the Pac didn’t approach the MW media partners. They did what they did behind the scenes leaning on their consultants to derive project value. CBS would have fought tooth and nail to stop the exodus.
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Miss State

M
1Tripoda said:
Talk about Coach Arnett's defense, the 3-3-5. What is the thing that this defense do best?
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You get a lot of chaos as the offensive line and QB dont know whos is coming or dropping into coverage at the snap. Sometimes you get 6 or 7 guys on the line and 3 or 4 drop into coverage, sometimes they all come. Its a really aggressive defensive philosophy and really shines at these mid-level conferences who can get smaller faster defenders that might get over shadowed at bigger P4 schools. You get a ton of versatility and is very well suited for the offenses we see in the MWC.
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Let’s talk Deion Sanders..

I
rebswin2 said:
I’ve been to probably 10 games at Folsom Field, I’ve always been a CU fan but he makes it hard to root for him. He has done a good job there, but as noted above hasn’t beat a ranked team and in those games several were not even competitive.
In games they did win his stars were in at the end of the game where at most schools those players would have already had their helmets taken away.
His son that plays DB is a complete asshat. I was at the Oregon CU game last year where the kid was talking all kinds of shit pregame. Oregon won by about 60 and he left the game peeing blood. This week vs byu he was doing the Deion shuffle after tackles as they were getting blown out. I know when your brother and dad get all of the attention it’s easy to have little dick syndrome but this guy in unreal.

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The CU trips were always hilarious. Getting pulled over on the freeway wearing the unis we stole out of the Folsom Field ROTC office lol.
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Let’s talk Deion Sanders..

dcut03
I don't have a problem with Sanders or Colorado, I just don't like the extra attention that they get. They are good, but not great. Last year they were mediocre or worse.

I know things don't work that way. Teams have intrigue beyond their actual merit. ESPN always talks way too much about the Cowboys even though they have been irrelevant from a football perspective for decades now. People watch when they are talked about, so they get extra attention. It bugs me but I understand it.

Colorado/Sanders kinda came out of nowhere in that regard. Which it is a bit more annoying. It isn't just the fact it is Deion because he used to be a player, Deion himself is out there marketing the crap out of his team and selling them hard. Overpromsing and being boisterous.

Almost completely opposite to Odom. He was boring and workmanlike in the media. But we got some attention from our play on the field (and Sluka unfortunately).

It seems like Mullen is a bit more boisterous. Using his connections to get on media as many ways as he can. He is no Deion, which I like, but he has a little more razzle dazzle than Odom.
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