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RebelinWA · Wednesday at 11:27 AM

Couev said:
There are lots of outliers of short kings being solid QBs, especially in the college game. Ty Detmer, Eric Crouch, and Johnny Manziel also both won the Heisman and both were under 6 feet. Manziel, like Wilson, is from a more modern version of the game with huge lineman as well so it can be done with a short guy--especially if he has a wiggle.

Generally, those guys all have a couple of qualities that are + or ++, whether it's a big arm, the ability to run the ball, the ability to make broken plays, footwork/mechanics, or outstanding accuracy.

I don't think Colandrea has any of those really, maybe a + athleticism, but I don't know that he has anything that I'd judge to be ++. He doesn't have great mechanics though, and that's where I am hoping Mullen can lift him up. Orji probably has more + characteristics, but again, nothing that I'd call ++.

If Mullen can fix footwork and throwing mechanics either of these guys will take a huge step forward. But Orgi had 3 years with Harbaugh who is pretty solid as a QB coach, he helped develop Luck and did an excellent job with Smith and Kaepernick in the pros. Colandrea came from Tony Elliot's program who was the QB guru on Clemson's staff where he coached and developed both Watson and Lawrence. And that's probably why I have my doubts. It wasn't like these guys were struggling under Ed Orgeron and not getting any good QB development.

At least for Orji, the defenses he faced were pretty scary. Michigan had an O line problem, but not to the extent of Virginia.

Couev · Wednesday at 11:17 AM

bcvegaspt2 said:
Doug Flutie is short.
Russell Wilson is short.
Drew Brees is short.

I'm sure there are others but I cherrypicked that list to fit my narrative.
The positives are that both played in the P4 and Colandrea held his own, for the most part. Plus, I've got to trust in Mullen since his track record deserves the benefit of the doubt.

There are lots of outliers of short kings being solid QBs, especially in the college game. Ty Detmer, Eric Crouch, and Johnny Manziel also both won the Heisman and both were under 6 feet. Manziel, like Wilson, is from a more modern version of the game with huge lineman as well so it can be done with a short guy--especially if he has a wiggle.

Generally, those guys all have a couple of qualities that are + or ++, whether it's a big arm, the ability to run the ball, the ability to make broken plays, footwork/mechanics, or outstanding accuracy.

I don't think Colandrea has any of those really, maybe a + athleticism, but I don't know that he has anything that I'd judge to be ++. He doesn't have great mechanics though, and that's where I am hoping Mullen can lift him up. Orji probably has more + characteristics, but again, nothing that I'd call ++.

If Mullen can fix footwork and throwing mechanics either of these guys will take a huge step forward. But Orgi had 2 years with Harbaugh who is pretty solid as a QB coach, he helped develop Luck and did an excellent job with Smith and Kaepernick in the pros. Colandrea came from Tony Elliot's program who was the QB guru on Clemson's staff where he coached and developed both Watson and Lawrence. And that's probably why I have my doubts. It wasn't like these guys were struggling under Ed Orgeron and not getting any good QB development.

Boston Rebel 2 · Wednesday at 11:03 AM

So how does it work if we win the conference title? Do we automatically go to the playoffs? We swept SDSU last month and Reno two out of three, so I would think we have a decent shot.

Boston Rebel 2 · Wednesday at 10:58 AM

RebelinWA said:
There is a lot of talent in both Colandrea and Orji. Colandrea happens to hold a record for the most passing yards as a rookie for any true freshman in the power conferences.

For context, he threw more yards in his freshman season alone than:
1. Johnny Stanton did in his entire 14 game career.
2. Hajj did last season (I know he ran a lot too).
3. Almost as many as Friel has for his entire career.

He did all of that while running for his life. Virgina's O line was very bad. Last season alone, he got sacked 39 times. In fact, he was the third most sacked QB in the nation after Shedeur Sanders (42) and Brayden Schager (40)

That O line could account for some of those picks…hopefully.

RebelinWA · Wednesday at 10:17 AM

bcvegaspt2 said:
Doug Flutie is short.
Russell Wilson is short.
Drew Brees is short.

I'm sure there are others but I cherrypicked that list to fit my narrative.
The positives are that both played in the P4 and Colandrea held his own, for the most part. Plus, I've got to trust in Mullen since his track record deserves the benefit of the doubt.

There is a lot of talent in both Colandrea and Orji. Colandrea happens to hold a record for the most passing yards as a rookie for any true freshman in the power conferences.

For context, he threw more yards in his freshman season alone than:
1. Johnny Stanton did in his entire 14 game career.
2. Hajj did last season (I know he ran a lot too).
3. Almost as many as Friel has for his entire career.

He did all of that while running for his life. Virgina's O line was very bad. Last season alone, he got sacked 39 times. In fact, he was the third most sacked QB in the nation after Shedeur Sanders (42) and Brayden Schager (40). He also played 2 less games than Sanders did.

Meister_Rebel · Wednesday at 7:22 AM

FYI Update:

Pac-12, Mountain West begin mediation over poaching penalty lawsuit, other legal action

The Pac-12 and Mountain West conferences began their long-awaited mediation Monday in an attempt to settle the poaching penalty and exit fee lawsuits with potentially more than $100 million at stake.

www.spokesman.com

Boston Rebel 2 · Wednesday at 7:11 AM

bcvegaspt2 said:
Doug Flutie is short.
Russell Wilson is short.
Drew Brees is short.

I'm sure there are others but I cherrypicked that list to fit my narrative.
The positives are that both played in the P4 and Colandrea held his own, for the most part. Plus, I've got to trust in Mullen since his track record deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I agree and think Mullen will do well with them. In terms of how they looked on the field, it wasn’t particularly impressive so I can see why there are big question marks. Think he will improve their play but until you see it on the field I get the low ranking.

Boston Rebel 2 · Wednesday at 7:09 AM

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bcvegaspt2 · Wednesday at 6:38 AM

Doug Flutie is short.
Russell Wilson is short.
Drew Brees is short.

I'm sure there are others but I cherrypicked that list to fit my narrative.
The positives are that both played in the P4 and Colandrea held his own, for the most part. Plus, I've got to trust in Mullen since his track record deserves the benefit of the doubt.

bcvegaspt2 · Wednesday at 6:35 AM

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InZoneU · Wednesday at 5:36 AM

The QB position does genuinely worry me as being the weak link this year. Colandrea just looks so small and a lot of those clips during spring were DBs picking off his tipped passes. Orji, who knows...

Bullmastiff 1 · Wednesday at 12:18 AM

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Boston Rebel 2 · Wednesday at 6:00 PM

dcut03 said:
It funny, but ESPN has our QB situation ranked in th 82-89 tier. Not 82-89th best QB, just the 82-89th best QB room.

I think most of us feel pretty good about QB, but that is pretty bad, at least pretty bad for a team with Playoff aspirations.

Ranking all 136 FBS QB situations into tiers ahead of the 2025 season

From Clemson to Kennesaw State, David Hale ranks all 136 FBS school quarterbacks into tiers.

www.espn.com

There are some big time question marks at QB so I get that rating.

Couev · Tuesday at 4:45 PM

dcut03 said:
It funny, but ESPN has our QB situation ranked in th 82-89 tier. Not 82-89th best QB, just the 82-89th best QB room.

I think most of us feel pretty good about QB, but that is pretty bad, at least pretty bad for a team with Playoff aspirations.

Ranking all 136 FBS QB situations into tiers ahead of the 2025 season

From Clemson to Kennesaw State, David Hale ranks all 136 FBS school quarterbacks into tiers.

www.espn.com

There's big questions marks there. Orji was a 4 star recruit, but in 3 years with the Wolverines he didn't even throw 50 pass attempts despite them having a lot of injury issues during some of those years. And when he did throw he dinked and dunked and only went off one read and some RPO stuff (Average yards per attempt of 2.60 for his career and 2.55 last year--which had he gotten enough attempts to qualify would be dead last in the nation. Good, powerful runner though, but problems with accuracy and getting through simple, one sided passing trees. Doesn't have big arm talent either. Colandrea was a 2 year starter for a bad ACC team who has average arm strength, but throws the ball like he thinks he's Favre. He also seems to lack touch and the ability to layer throws against zone defense. Better processor of passing schemes, but thinks guys are more open than they actually are and falls in love with his presnap reads. Surprisingly athletic, but also takes a lot of sacks and his lack of size can hurt his reading of the field (5'10) We know what we have with Friel and Ochoa, I think. Serviceable depth but probably not solid Division 1 starting material.

It's not great when you put it all down on paper. Now Mullen has a history of developing QBs so I'm hopeful we can figure it out with one or combination of those guys--However, I think if we're being honest, the situation is probably better than what we had going into last year with two low accuracy QBs from FCS schools.

dcut03 · Tuesday at 4:27 PM

Couev said:
My feeling is that we'll be a top 25 team at some point legitimately this year, I just don't have enough questions answered after spring practice to feel confident saying we're already a top 25 team.

This is a funny place though, most of the time we're a cranky, salty, jaded bunch and anyone who even shows a shred of hope or optimism will get people shitting on them all the time. But here I am having to fight for not thinking that this is already the greatest team in UNLV history and the fact that I don't think we're there yet makes me essentially a doomer.

It funny, but ESPN has our QB situation ranked in th 82-89 tier. Not 82-89th best QB, just the 82-89th best QB room.

I think most of us feel pretty good about QB, but that is pretty bad, at least pretty bad for a team with Playoff aspirations.

Ranking all 136 FBS QB situations into tiers ahead of the 2025 season

From Clemson to Kennesaw State, David Hale ranks all 136 FBS school quarterbacks into tiers.

www.espn.com

Couev · Tuesday at 4:19 PM

dcut03 said:
I generally agree with your guarded optimism, and my nature is the exact same.

The good news that near complete roster turnover isn't such a crazy thing these days. So that is to our favor, vs how it would be traditionally.

I think we should be at least top 3, and the realistic ceiling is a MW crown and a potential Playoff berth in year 1. A lot will have to go right for that to happen, but the schedule is somewhat favorable to make that happen.

But a lot will have to go right for that to happen. Mullen has had immediate turnarounds at really tougher jobs with less advantages compared to his peers, so I think some optimism is logical. But I don't think we are playoff or bust in year one, that just isn't reasonable even if it is attainable.

My feeling is that we'll be a top 25 team at some point legitimately this year, I just don't have enough questions answered after spring practice to feel confident saying we're already a top 25 team.

This is a funny place though, most of the time we're a cranky, salty, jaded bunch and anyone who even shows a shred of hope or optimism will get people shitting on them all the time. But here I am having to fight for not thinking that this is already the greatest team in UNLV history and the fact that I don't think we're there yet makes me essentially a doomer.

Bullmastiff 1 · Tuesday at 3:41 PM

Gator 82 said:
Bottom line is, the nPac needs UNLV a lot more than UNLV needs the nPac. We can afford to be patient and continue to build the program for a potential B12 invite.

The new PAC calling itself the PAC can be likened to that dude that got kicked out of Guns and Roses, continuing to tour as Guns and Roses with a couple dudes that played in a G n R cover band called Paradise City.

dcut03 · Tuesday at 3:30 PM

Couev said:
That's a fair counter point. However, apart from Frieze those guys were at or near the top of the salaries in their conference when they were signed which is why I picked those guys for the comparison. We're not the SEC, but you can pay top dollar for a coach and have an amazming NIL program compared to your peers and still put up a struggle bus to miss or barely make bowl eligibility. Hell, Jimbo is still making more per year right now than everyone in the SEC but Smart, Sark, DeBoer, and Kelly--and in 2017 when he signed the deal he was number two in the SEC behind only Nick Saban and when he signed his extension in 2021 he was the #1 salary in the SEC.

I agree. JRob had a better resume, but at the time we had him he was in the last little whimper of his career--his best years were gone. I don't know that you can say the same thing about Mullen, and on paper he should be an upgrade to Odom.

I generally agree with your guarded optimism, and my nature is the exact same.

The good news that near complete roster turnover isn't such a crazy thing these days. So that is to our favor, vs how it would be traditionally.

I think we should be at least top 3, and the realistic ceiling is a MW crown and a potential Playoff berth in year 1. A lot will have to go right for that to happen, but the schedule is somewhat favorable to make that happen.

Mullen has had immediate turnarounds at really tougher jobs with less advantages compared to his peers, so I think some optimism is logical. But I don't think we are playoff or bust in year one, that just isn't reasonable even if it is attainable.

Couev · Tuesday at 3:01 PM

rebel5280 said:
We don’t play in these conferences at all so I think there is more room for optimism and less pessimism, we are in the MWC not the Big 12, B10, ACC or SEC!

That's a fair counter point. However, apart from Frieze those guys were at or near the top of the salaries in their conference when they were signed which is why I picked those guys for the comparison. We're not the SEC, but you can pay top dollar for a coach and have an amazming NIL program compared to your peers and still put up a struggle bus to miss or barely make bowl eligibility. Hell, Jimbo is still making more per year right now than everyone in the SEC but Smart, Sark, DeBoer, and Kelly--and in 2017 when he signed the deal he was number two in the SEC behind only Nick Saban and when he signed his extension in 2021 he was the #1 salary in the SEC.

rebel5280 said:
Mullen is probably the best coach in the MWC now but yeah in the game, probably not but he is the best one we have had since JR!

I agree. JRob had a better resume, but at the time we had him he was in the last little whimper of his career--his best years were gone. I don't know that you can say the same thing about Mullen, and on paper he should be an upgrade to Odom.

RebelScrub · Tuesday at 1:32 PM

Couev said:
There's a big gulf between guarded optimism and pessimism. This urge to try and put everything into a dichotomous box is wild. I stand on principle that given the question marks in the program I think a top 25 pre-season is premature. You say you don't understand but let me break down what I'm seeing which gives me some hesitation. We're replacing 22 of 25 starters, something like 80% of our previous years snaps (I refused to pay for the PFF so if that number is based on estimation and if I"m wrong I'll humbly retract though I think I'm coming in conservative). You've lost 18 of your top 20 tacklers and retained #7 and #20. You've lost 15 of your top 19 scrimmage yards retaining #2, #13, #14, and #19. This is way more turnover than we saw even under Odom's first year. We had to replace a coordinator almost 4 months into the staff's first season.

I agree the talent is probably the highest it's ever been. The coaching staff is really good. Calling Mullen one of the top head coaches in the game is a bit of a stretch--definitely one of if not the best in the G6 though. We are bringing in some quality P4 depth who DID get snaps. There are reasons to be optimistic. I think the ceiling is higher than last year, I just think the floor is lower as well.

I'm sure Auburn thought the same of Hugh Frieze and Brian Harsin. Or TAMU with Jimbo Fisher. Or FSU with Mike Norvell. Or Brent Venables with Oklahoma. And that's just a few off my head without any research. If success were always simply a function of money then we wouldn't have flops or burnouts at the big programs, but that's simply not the case.

Jimbo fisher cashed out lol.

rebel5280 · Tuesday at 12:57 PM

Couev said:
There's a big gulf between guarded optimism and pessimism. This urge to try and put everything into a dichotomous box is wild. I stand on principle that given the question marks in the program I think a top 25 pre-season is premature. You say you don't understand but let me break down what I'm seeing which gives me some hesitation. We're replacing 22 of 25 starters, something like 80% of our previous years snaps (I refused to pay for the PFF so if that number is based on estimation and if I"m wrong I'll humbly retract though I think I'm coming in conservative). You've lost 18 of your top 20 tacklers and retained #7 and #20. You've lost 15 of your top 19 scrimmage yards retaining #2, #13, #14, and #19. This is way more turnover than we saw even under Odom's first year. We had to replace a coordinator almost 4 months into the staff's first season.

I agree the talent is probably the highest it's ever been. The coaching staff is really good. Calling Mullen one of the top head coaches in the game is a bit of a stretch--definitely one of if not the best in the G6 though. We are bringing in some quality P4 depth who DID get snaps. There are reasons to be optimistic. I think the ceiling is higher than last year, I just think the floor is lower as well.

I'm sure Auburn thought the same of Hugh Frieze and Brian Harsin. Or TAMU with Jimbo Fisher. Or FSU with Mike Norvell. Or Brent Venables with Oklahoma. And that's just a few off my head without any research. If success were always simply a function of money then we wouldn't have flops or burnouts at the big programs, but that's simply not the case.

We don’t play in these conferences at all so I think there is more room for optimism and less pessimism, we are in the MWC not the Big 12, B10, ACC or SEC!

Mullen is probably the best coach in the MWC now but yeah in the game, probably not but he is the best one we have had since JR!

rebel5280 · Tuesday at 12:53 PM

RebelinWA said:
I could get behind the Pac paying our exit. But can they afford it? That's a big question mark. If the MW lets us pay over time, then the Pac could do it.

They don't have a P4 for free out clause, at least in the contract that Utah State signed. https://www.usustats.com/goodies/contracts/UtahStatePAC12Contract.pdf

Utah State would be required to pay $40M in liquidated damages to the PAC-12 if they renege on their commitment to join the conference for any reason before July 1, 2026. The only caveat is that this number would be reduced to $30M if Utah State joined an A4 conference (SEC, Big 12, Big 10, ACC) before that date.

Now, I'm not sure what the fee will be after 01 July 2026. Its not clearly stated. But we can surmise that they wouldn't want to pay to sign us, and then let us walk away for free. They could structure it so that we could owe back the money they spent to get us out of the MW if we bail for a P4. I would be okay with that deal.

To your point though, Big 12 or bust.

This!

Bullmastiff 1 · Tuesday at 12:38 PM

reagan21 said:
People who thought Hey Reb was a conferate
Solider have never seen a picture of what the confederacy wore.

It’s not even close.

Same people have no clue that Abraham Lincoln was set to invade and conquer Canada, but the South had to get all uppity.

Couev · Tuesday at 11:57 AM

Rosegreen1 said:
I don’t understand the pessimism and crying about being a preseason top 25 program.

There's a big gulf between guarded optimism and pessimism. This urge to try and put everything into a dichotomous box is wild. I stand on principle that given the question marks in the program I think a top 25 pre-season is premature. You say you don't understand but let me break down what I'm seeing which gives me some hesitation. We're replacing 22 of 25 starters, something like 80% of our previous years snaps (I refused to pay for the PFF so if that number is based on estimation and if I"m wrong I'll humbly retract though I think I'm coming in conservative). You've lost 18 of your top 20 tacklers and retained #7 and #20. You've lost 15 of your top 19 scrimmage yards retaining #2, #13, #14, and #19. This is way more turnover than we saw even under Odom's first year. We had to replace a coordinator almost 4 months into the staff's first season.

Rosegreen1 said:
This is a very talented team, the number of highly rated players coming in is mind blowing. Pair that with a very good coaching staff and one of the top head coaches in the game.

I agree the talent is probably the highest it's ever been. The coaching staff is really good. Calling Mullen one of the top head coaches in the game is a bit of a stretch--definitely one of if not the best in the G6 though. We are bringing in some quality P4 depth who DID get snaps. There are reasons to be optimistic. I think the ceiling is higher than last year, I just think the floor is lower as well.

Rosegreen1 said:
We’re not paying Mullen and having a good NIL deal just to eke through a season to 6 wins.

I'm sure Auburn thought the same of Hugh Frieze and Brian Harsin. Or TAMU with Jimbo Fisher. Or FSU with Mike Norvell. Or Brent Venables with Oklahoma. And that's just a few off my head without any research. If success were always simply a function of money then we wouldn't have flops or burnouts at the big programs, but that's simply not the case.

RebelinWA · Tuesday at 11:49 AM

Boston Rebel 2 said:
lol did Utah State really need the A4 clause in there? I would be sure no problem. In fact, we’ll pay you $30M if you get invited into the SEC.

No, but the same day this was sent out to them, we got it too. I imagine that with the difference of payout amounts, its the same contract everyone else got.

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