Coach or covid talk

[j. spilotro]

we will see if defying a state mandate and endangering people around you is cause. Meanwhile, it is entertaining to watch this play out. COVID is not going anywhere. Get a jab or two and lower the risk. This is not rocket science.

You’re vaxxed? You’re leaky, you can spread it. And guess what? You’re more liable to be asymptomatic too … so you may be even more dangerous. Seen the stats across the world? Yeah, vaxxed is safe.

It went from we are sure you can’t get it … well, you can, but you won’t spread it … well, you can spread it but you won’t be hospitalized … well, you can be hospitalized but you won’t get it severely … well, you can get it and die, but it’s not as likely …. Meanwhile, efficacy keeps dropping, line up for another jab and we will repeat this process in a few more months.

It went from 100% to “eh, maybe” in no time. And it’s easy to claim 100% efficacy when viral prevalence at the time was next to nil.

Duped.

 

[RunninReb1989]

You’re vaxxed? You’re leaky, you can spread it. And guess what? You’re more liable to be asymptomatic too … so you may be even more dangerous. Seen the stats across the world? Yeah, vaxxed is safe.

It went from we are sure you can’t get it … well, you can, but you won’t spread it … well, you can spread it but you won’t be hospitalized … well, you can be hospitalized but you won’t get it severely … well, you can get it and die, but it’s not as likely …. Meanwhile, efficacy keeps dropping, line up for another jab and we will repeat this process in a few more months.

It went from 100% to “eh, maybe” in no time. And it’s easy to claim 100% efficacy when viral prevalence at the time was next to nil.

Duped.

Your picking and choosing what data to follow. So, in your conclusion being vaccinated makes you more likely to pass on the virus? Asymptomatic makes you more likely to pass on the virus because you don't know you have it, is what you are saying. But this is completely disregarding that 90% plus of people being vaccinated are not getting the virus. Also, the people with breakthrough cases have a significantly less viral load and they are positive for half the time in most cases. So, less get the virus, they have a much lower load than a non vaccinated and they have the virus for half the time but they are still more likely to pass on the virus? Give me a break man.

"While the COVID-19 vaccines are proving to be highly effective in preventing COVID-19 infection, no vaccine is 100% effective, and breakthrough infections do occur. Among 3,975 participants in two studies, SARS-CoV-2 infections were identified in five participants who were fully vaccinated and 11 who were partially vaccinated, as well as in 156 unvaccinated participants. Approximately half of the participants were from Arizona study sites.

Researchers found that study participants who were partially or fully vaccinated with the Pfizer and Moderna messenger RNA vaccines at the time of infection had a viral load that was 40% less than that of unvaccinated participants. Viral load – the amount of SARS-CoV-2 virus found in a test sample – is not an indicator of how contagious an individual is, though early COVID-19 research suggests viral load could play a role in disease severity and secondary transmission.

In addition to disease severity, researchers looked at infection longevity. The majority of infections among unvaccinated participants were detected for two or more weeks, compared with only one week among vaccinated participants. That represents a 66% reduction in the risk that a vaccinated person will have a confirmed infection for more than one week."

 

[Soul Cane]

Your picking and choosing what data to follow. So, in your conclusion being vaccinated makes you more likely to pass on the virus? Asymptomatic makes you more likely to pass on the virus because you don't know you have it, is what you are saying. But this is completely disregarding that 90% plus of people being vaccinated are not getting the virus. Also, the people with breakthrough cases have a significantly less viral load and they are positive for half the time in most cases. So, less get the virus, they have a much lower load than a non vaccinated and they have the virus for half the time but they are still more likely to pass on the virus? Give me a break man.

"While the COVID-19 vaccines are proving to be highly effective in preventing COVID-19 infection, no vaccine is 100% effective, and breakthrough infections do occur. Among 3,975 participants in two studies, SARS-CoV-2 infections were identified in five participants who were fully vaccinated and 11 who were partially vaccinated, as well as in 156 unvaccinated participants. Approximately half of the participants were from Arizona study sites.

Researchers found that study participants who were partially or fully vaccinated with the Pfizer and Moderna messenger RNA vaccines at the time of infection had a viral load that was 40% less than that of unvaccinated participants. Viral load – the amount of SARS-CoV-2 virus found in a test sample – is not an indicator of how contagious an individual is, though early COVID-19 research suggests viral load could play a role in disease severity and secondary transmission.

In addition to disease severity, researchers looked at infection longevity. The majority of infections among unvaccinated participants were detected for two or more weeks, compared with only one week among vaccinated participants. That represents a 66% reduction in the risk that a vaccinated person will have a confirmed infection for more than one week."

You're 100% incorrect about breakthrough infections having less viral loads than the unvaxxed.

The CDC's own director & website admit the viral loads between the vaxxed and unvaxxed are similar in severity.

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, including COVID-19 ...

This report describes COVID-19 outbreaks associated with ...

www.cdc.gov

The CDC director also admitted the vaccine does not stop the spread or transmission of COVID.

Fully vaccinated people can still transmit COVID-19 virus: U.S. CDC director - Xinhua | English.news.cn

www.xinhuanet.com

Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson also all admit the vaccine does not spread or transmission of COVID.

Worldwide studies have reflected that the infection rates among the vaxxed in Isreal & the U.K. had a higher infection rate among the percentage of their population than the unvaxxed population. And hospitalization rates among vaxxed populations have also remained quite high in Israel & the U.K. - which is the reason why health officials have now pivoted to booster shots (which they will soon mandate in this country as well).

It is very frustrating to witness a sizable portion of our nation's population continue to erroneously believe these vaccines somehow prevent the spread or transmission of COVID. That belief is based on lies and deceit - and not grounded in any scientific reality.

 

[RunninReb1989]

You're 100% incorrect about breakthrough infections having less viral loads than the unvaxxed.

The CDC's own director & website admit the viral loads between the vaxxed and unvaxxed are similar in severity.

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, including COVID-19 ...

This report describes COVID-19 outbreaks associated with ...

www.cdc.gov

The CDC director also admitted the vaccine does not stop the spread or transmission of COVID.

Fully vaccinated people can still transmit COVID-19 virus: U.S. CDC director - Xinhua | English.news.cn

www.xinhuanet.com

Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson also all admit the vaccine does not spread or transmission of COVID.

Worldwide studies have reflected that the infection rates among the vaxxed in Isreal & the U.K. had a higher infection rate among the percentage of their population than the unvaxxed population. And hospitalization rates among vaxxed populations have also remained quite high in Israel & the U.K. - which is the reason why health officials have now pivoted to booster shots (which they will soon mandate in this country as well).

It is very frustrating to witness a sizable portion of our nation's population continue to erroneously believe these vaccines somehow prevent the spread or transmission of COVID. That belief is based on lies and deceit - and not grounded in any scientific reality.

Well I was able to find a study within a minute that said viral load was 40% less with vaccinated people and I'm sure I will easily find more. So, not even close to 100% wrong. Also, never said you couldn't pass or get the virus if your vaccinated. Never came close to saying that. I said studies have shown 90% of vaccinated people did not get the virus. But thanks for the pointless rant on a subject I never brought up.

Joe basically said your more likely to pass the virus if your vaccinated because many times you are asymptomatic ( which wouldn't that also mean you have less of a viral load??) and that is simply not true in anyway and nothing you said disputed that.

 

[RunninReb1989]

Also, not sure where in that article is says unvaccinated people don't have a higher viral load. Copy and paste that part because I didn't see it. But I did find this:
The SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant is highly transmissible (1), and understanding determinants of transmission, including human behavior and vaccine effectiveness, is critical to developing prevention strategies. Multipronged prevention strategies are needed to reduce COVID-19–related morbidity and mortality (4).

The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak. As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases. Second, asymptomatic breakthrough infections might be underrepresented because of detection bias. Third, demographics of cases likely reflect those of attendees at the public gatherings, as events were marketed to adult male participants; further study is underway to identify other population characteristics among cases, such as additional demographic characteristics and underlying health conditions including immunocompromising conditions.

 

[Soul Cane]

Well I was able to find a study within a minute that said viral load was 40% less with vaccinated people and I'm sure I will easily find more. So, not even close to 100% wrong. Also, never said you couldn't pass or get the virus if your vaccinated. Never came close to saying that. I said studies have shown 90% of vaccinated people did not get the virus. But thanks for the pointless rant on a subject I never brought up.

Joe basically said your more likely to pass the virus if your vaccinated because many times you are asymptomatic ( which wouldn't that also mean you have less of a viral load??) and that is simply not true in anyway and nothing you said disputed that.

This is from the CDC's own website.

CDC Newsroom

Press releases, advisories, telebriefings, transcripts and archives.

www.cdc.gov

Today, some of those data were published in CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus. This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation.

Mind you, I didn't post this from some conspiracy website. This was posted directly from CDC's own site.

I acknowledge the CDC has made numerous false claims concerning COVID. However, I'm struggling over why the CDC would lie in this specific case about findings that the viral loads are similar among vaxxed and unvaxxed people.

Secondly, you're arguing my post had nothing to do with your assertion that 90% of vaccinated people did not get the virus. Your assertion is referring to the transmission rate. My post is directly addresses your assertion. The CDC's own director, Rochelle Walensky, the person you've been listening to during this entire pandemic, admitted the vaccines do not prevent you from being infected by COVID. She's not saying it reduces transmission or spready by 90%, she's saying outright it doesn't prevent the spread or transmission of vaccines at all. That's the reason why the CDC is recommending that vaxxed people wear a mask.

I know you don't want to hear any of this. But these vaccines are not working the way they were advertised by our leaders and media.

 

[RunninReb1989]

This is from the CDC's own website.

CDC Newsroom

Press releases, advisories, telebriefings, transcripts and archives.

www.cdc.gov

Today, some of those data were published in CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus. This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation.

Mind you, I didn't post this from some conspiracy website. This was posted directly from CDC's own site.

I acknowledge the CDC has made numerous false claims concerning COVID. However, I'm struggling over why the CDC would lie in this specific case about findings that the viral loads are similar among vaxxed and unvaxxed people.

Secondly, you're arguing my post had nothing to do with your assertion that 90% of vaccinated people did not get the virus. Your assertion is referring to the transmission rate. My post is directly addresses your assertion. The CDC's own director, Rochelle Walensky, the person you've been listening to during this entire pandemic, admitted the vaccines do not prevent you from being infected by COVID. She's not saying it reduces transmission or spready by 90%, she's saying outright it doesn't prevent the spread or transmission of vaccines at all. That's the reason why the CDC is recommending that vaxxed people wear a mask.

I know you don't want to hear any of this. But these vaccines are not working the way they were advertised by our leaders and media.

Let's stay on point here. They are talking about one specific group of about 350 people. They never say they have any reason to believe this is the case for all vaccinated vs non vaccinated. The study I posted was from the university of Arizona and it looked at over 3500 people. And that's just one study, I could easily find within a minute. But somehow this one study on 350 people lead you to tell me I'm 100% wrong 🤔🤔🤔.

You want to bring up a bunch of other points but the only thing I was saying in my original post was that it's complete BS to say your more likely to spread the virus if your vaccinated.

But at the end of the day if your going to use the CDC as your source then why not also follow their recommendation to get vaccinated?

 

[bcvegaspt]

This NPR link states that many ER’s across the nation were empty until this summer yet all we heard about was that hospitals have been at “full capacity.” Is that because hospitals sent staff home (to save money) so the overall capacity, in terms of beds available due to staffing shortages, dropped? Anyone who thinks rationally knows the answer to that question.

Medical conditions are getting worse

 

[lvhiker]

The npr article was very informative. What is happening in ERs is terrible. How do we improve healthcare in the United States? Do you think the problems are manufactured by hospitals because the are trying to make more money? That is pretty cynical. If true, we need do away with for prof hospitals.

 

[Rebel1986]

Just what we need is a bunch of UMC's that drain the tax payers of 100's of millions of our dollars while throwing money away left and right!

 

[j. spilotro]

This NPR link states that many ER’s across the nation were empty until this summer yet all we heard about was that hospitals have been at “full capacity.” Is that because hospitals sent staff home (to save money) so the overall capacity, in terms of beds available due to staffing shortages, dropped? Anyone who thinks rationally knows the answer to that question.

Medical conditions are getting worse

“Full” hospitals means the nurse to bed ratio is tapped. There may be 100 more beds in a hospital, not enough nurses. Or ER. Or whatever floor.

But they’d rather use the term “full” to show a crisis of health instead of a crisis of a shortage. Smoke and mirrors.

 

[NSU67]

It is all a hoax. 730,000 fake deaths, including my brother-in-law. Thousands more fake long haulers, like my sister, suffering brain damage. Other fake breakthroughs.
Vaccines don't work. The 95 % of unvaxxed are not getting Covid-19 because there is no such things.
Masks are useless. Docs and nurses wear them for style.
CDC, FDA, Mayo clinic, 90% of docs, are all lying.
Now, I find out that when my wife spent 40+ hours in a chair outside the ER, that there was a room, but the hospital lied.
And, now, my 96 year old step mom in Texas must have been lied to when the hospital told her that there were no spaces in the ER, due to Covid.
I learn so much reading Rebel-not. Thanks. I am 76, minus part of a lung, and a heart attack victim. At least I know that I can skip the useless booster.

 

[lvhiker]

I don’t understand. If the problem is a shortage of nurses, let’s encourage more people to become nurses. Or is that shortage smoke and mirrors. If there is a problem, let’s solve it. It is hard to believe that there is no problem. But if you think everything is fine, please let us know where you bought your rose-colored glasses.

 

[j. spilotro]

I don’t understand. If the problem is a shortage of nurses, let’s encourage more people to become nurses. Or is that shortage smoke and mirrors. If there is a problem, let’s solve it. It is hard to believe that there is no problem. But if you think everything is fine, please let us know where you bought your rose-colored glasses.

When they are mandating a vax and forcing a job or the vax and a percentage is walking, that leads to a shortage. And with a covid year trickling any graduates, that sets you further behind.

“let’s encourage” … come on man, do you sleep all day long? There’s no encouraging, it’s all discouraging actions leading to shortages.

Seriously? Are you that behind?

When you are short to begin with … and then you lose a chunk. And you aren’t replacing that chunk because there aren’t nearly the same amount of grads and those grads don’t have the experience to work the intensive floors … that says … shortage.

This isn’t applied physics, it’s not calculus - it’s elementary 1st grade math.

 

[bcvegaspt]

C’mon, Joe!

You scientist, nurses, doctors.. heck, even us PT’s grow on trees. It’s not like it takes undergrad plus grad school to do what we all do (or did, in my case).

Just find other nurses who are waiting eagerly to get hired on somewhere! Oh, and make sure that nobody makes good money doing it because that’s not fair to those who stay home all day watching tv, or whatever they do.

 

[j. spilotro]

C’mon, Joe!

You scientist, nurses, doctors.. heck, even us PT’s grow on trees. It’s not like it takes undergrad plus grad school to do what we all do (or did, in my case).

Just find other nurses who are waiting eagerly to get hired on somewhere! Oh, and make sure that nobody makes good money doing it because that’s not fair to those who stay home all day watching tv, or whatever they do.

You know those sign twirlers? Scoop them up off the street, give them a one day orientation and a week on the floor, they’ll be good to go.

College was a rip off. Rotations were unnecessary. Those skills and the knowledge, they’re inborn. A little encouragement is all it takes.

I don’t know many people who worked more hours than people in the medical field the past 20 months. And no, it wasn’t the typical 2080 hours per year, either. And we certainly didn’t do it for the cash. Those with a conscience didn’t have much of a choice … I mean, it’s not quite as difficult as teaching dorks (yes, I’m one) the Laws of Newton on Zoom in your underwear with your hand down the front of your jockeys.

 

[NSU67]

But, why do we need nurses and docs? We don't need vaxx, don't need masks.
Covid is a lie, it will go away on its own. That crap about still 1400 to 1500 people dying each day. Suuuure...

 

[Rebel1986]

Magically almost nobody dies anymore from heart attacks, cancer, influenza, suicide, etc?

 

[LVRebel2000]

But, why do we need nurses and docs? We don't need vaxx, don't need masks.
Covid is a lie, it will go away on its own. That crap about still 1400 to 1500 people dying each day. Suuuure...

Don't read this as being argumentative, because that's not my intent. I totally relate with people that have lost loves ones and been through a lot these past couple of years. But I have also seen people who have essentially lost 2 years of their lives by sheltering in their houses and barely living their lives due to the fear of covid.

I'm sure there are some people that will say it's a lie, but I don't think most here are saying that Covid itself isn't real. It obviously is a real virus, and it's pretty nasty. My whole family has had it, and it wasn't a lot of fun. For me, it wasn't much more than a headache and a cold, but I also used the Front Line Dr's covid protocol to help in keeping it at a minimum. I think what people are saying is so disagreeable is how so much of this is being handled, from tracking the covid numbers, to mask and jab mandates, to firing people for not getting it, etc.

From the beginning, they've been including Covid deaths as people that either tested positive, or had Covid like symptoms at the time of their death, even if it had nothing to do with the actual reason that they died. This is wrong, and highly skews the numbers to fit a narrative.

IMO, it's ridiculous to be firing employees for not getting the Covid shot, especially those that work in the hospitals and in the military or police. Pretty much everyone I know in either of those two jobs has already had Covid. If they haven't, they must have some pretty awesome natural immunity to be working in those jobs and being around people with Covid and not catching it. Yet, for some reason, we want to penalize them for that??? In what world does that make sense? These same people were being praised as hero's a year ago, but now they should be fired?

Throw in the fact that people that have received the covid shot can still get covid and pass it along just as easily as those that haven't received it. In some cases, they may actually spread it easier, due to them showing fewer symptoms while actually being contagious. But those people aren't being condemned, so why should people that have either had covid, or chosen not to get the shot for whatever their personal reasoning is?

If people that have received the shot aren't protected, then that says more about the effectiveness of the shot than anything else.

 

[lvhiker]

Magically almost nobody dies anymore from heart attacks, cancer, influenza, suicide, etc?

This fiction is amazing. Look up ”Excess Deaths” and you find many sources that compare the total number of deaths to the expected number based on historical data. For some reason, there have been over 700,000 excess deaths since Covid hit. Did these people die from a fictional pandemic? Over a 1000 more fake deaths are added every day. Is this all a conspiracy so the “government “ can inject us all with nanochips?

 

[Rebel1986]

Since you are the expert, show my the documentation that increased the morbidity rate for the country by 700K last year? Keep in mind that 1.5-2% of the population dies every year and that there are approximately 330,000,000 people in the US currently. That would mean 4,950,000-7,000,000 during an average year.

 

[NSU67]

Let me, on behalf of all the people who have lost loved ones, and had others permanently damaged by this phony virus, apologize to all the people who have had their lives destroyed by being forced to take a shot, or wear a mask.
The humanity destroyed by a needle and a mask cannot be recovered. Just as children are destroyed by the vaccines for polio, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis. Never mind the old small pox ones.
At least nobody dies from Covid.
100% of all deaths. All of them are caused by one thing. Heart failure. Everything else, from cancer to gunshots, are just contributing causes.
Again we are sorry for your inconvenience.

 

[rebelfan1969]

But, why do we need nurses and docs? We don't need vaxx, don't need masks.
Covid is a lie, it will go away on its own. That crap about still 1400 to 1500 people dying each day. Suuuure...

If masks work....why do we still have covid ???

 

[Rebel1986]

Nobody has ever said the Chinese virus isn't real, but you are really good at putting out your own twist on the virus and trying to blame those who don't follow your agenda for the virus and any and all deaths.

Funny how you ignore the simple fact that those who have already had the virus put themselves at risk by being vaccinated without any added benefits; Funny how you ignore the fact that the vaccine has not been properly tested by reducing the testing phase down from 8-10 years down to 8-10 months while ignoring the fact that all those other vaccines you listed were properly tested; Funny how you ignore the fact that those who produce and provide the vaccine have been exempted by the federal government from any liability; Funny how you push your vaccine telling us how well it works while telling us if we don't take the vaccine we will be killing your family members which doesn't make any sense if the vaccine actually works for those who take it. If the vaccine works so great, why are they now talking about third, fourth, fifth, etc. rounds of vaccine shots?

While we are at it, since you are already retired and have no financial risk, why don't you apologize to the 10's of millions who have lost their companies and retirements during the shut down while large corporations and the elite billionaires have had a huge windfall on the backs of the middle and working class. While don't you also apologize to the 100's of thousands who have also tried or committed suicide due to loss of contact with friends and family.

The more we see the more we know that those in charge of the mandates for masks and for the vaccine are only out to line their pockets and push their political agendas without worrying about the consequences to this country.

 

[NSU67]

Like I said. I apologize for the inconvenience you have suffered.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I hate that this is from Fox news but..

Anybody want to explain how this is ok?

President Biden is literally putting lives at risk.

President Biden doesn't care for the elderly.

He's putting immunocompromised
children at risk.

1k people are dying per day, but I guess it doesn't matter to President Biden or his advisors.

If you aren't wearing a mask you have no concern for others.

You're selfish.

You don't trust the science.

I'm just parroting things people have said in this thread.

I don't want to hear about him being vaccinated. So am I, but I'm required to wear one.

Sorry folks. Those are the rules. You created them.

Don't bitch about people's skepticism, when the folks who are in charge of messaging are garbage at it.

 

[j. spilotro]

View embedded media

I hate that this is from Fox news but..

Anybody want to explain how this is ok?

Joe Biden is literally putting lives at risk.

Joe Biden doesn't care for the elderly.

He's putting immunocompromised children at risk.

That's the narrative now.

If you aren't wearing a mask you have no concern for others.

I'm just parroting things people have said in this thread.

Don't want to hear about him being vaccinated. So am I, but I'm required to wear one.

Sorry folks. Those are the rules. You created them.

Don't bitch about people's skepticism, when the people who are in charge of messaging are garbage at it.

Hypocrisy is now a badge of honor. They’re laughing at people that mask.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Hypocrisy is now a badge of honor. They’re laughing at people that mask.

I just want to hear from the shame the vaccine hesitant people and masks save lives crowd.

What message is President Biden sending out to people with this behavior. I mean a guy his age should be taking every precaution. Even with the vaccine he is still at high risk because of his age.

 

[bcvegaspt]

I just want to hear from the shame the vaccine hesitant people and masks save lives crowd.

What message is President Biden sending out to people with this behavior. I mean a guy his age should be taking every precaution. Even with the vaccine he is still at high risk because of his age.

I know two respondents in this very thread who will conveniently neglect to respond directly to you, then apologize for the inconvenience.

 

[j. spilotro]

I just want to hear from the shame the vaccine hesitant people and masks save lives crowd.

What message is President Biden sending out to people with this behavior. I mean a guy his age should be taking every precaution. Even with the vaccine he is still at high risk because of his age.I know two respondents in this very thread who will conveniently neglect to respond directly to you, then apologize for the inconvenience.

lol. Probably can’t see them, but I think I know who you are talking about. I think. I thought one bolted from here long ago though.

Meanwhile, have you talked to somebody at McDonald’s about taking your shifts? Just a little encouragement is needed man. We can solve these woes with a tender, loving, encouraging hand. Didn’t you know?

That’s the problem with academia. So far removed from real life.

 

[RunninReb1989]

So, this page doesn't give breaking news or information anymore and is also run by a right wing conspiracy theorist who won't address you when you question his lies head on. Good to know.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

So, this page doesn't give breaking news or information anymore and is also run by a right wing conspiracy theorist who won't address you when you question his lies head on. Good to know.

It started as a discussion about Nic Rolovich refusing to get vaccinated and losing his job.

And then it turned into...Well this...

Not sure who the right wing conspiracy theorist is though.

 

[j. spilotro]

It started as a discussion about Nic Rolovich refusing to get vaccinated and losing his job.

And then it turned into...Well this...

Not sure who the right wing conspiracy theorist is though.

Maybe he means me? I didn’t know Independent voters were Right Wing?

They all suck as far as I’m concerned. Always have.

Maybe TE? Any other mods?

Not sure.

 

[j. spilotro]

Your picking and choosing what data to follow. So, in your conclusion being vaccinated makes you more likely to pass on the virus? Asymptomatic makes you more likely to pass on the virus because you don't know you have it, is what you are saying. But this is completely disregarding that 90% plus of people being vaccinated are not getting the virus. Also, the people with breakthrough cases have a significantly less viral load and they are positive for half the time in most cases. So, less get the virus, they have a much lower load than a non vaccinated and they have the virus for half the time but they are still more likely to pass on the virus? Give me a break man.

"While the COVID-19 vaccines are proving to be highly effective in preventing COVID-19 infection, no vaccine is 100% effective, and breakthrough infections do occur. Among 3,975 participants in two studies, SARS-CoV-2 infections were identified in five participants who were fully vaccinated and 11 who were partially vaccinated, as well as in 156 unvaccinated participants. Approximately half of the participants were from Arizona study sites.

Researchers found that study participants who were partially or fully vaccinated with the Pfizer and Moderna messenger RNA vaccines at the time of infection had a viral load that was 40% less than that of unvaccinated participants. Viral load – the amount of SARS-CoV-2 virus found in a test sample – is not an indicator of how contagious an individual is, though early COVID-19 research suggests viral load could play a role in disease severity and secondary transmission.

In addition to disease severity, researchers looked at infection longevity. The majority of infections among unvaccinated participants were detected for two or more weeks, compared with only one week among vaccinated participants. That represents a 66% reduction in the risk that a vaccinated person will have a confirmed infection for more than one week."

Ah, this …. 90% of the people getting it are not unvaxxed. I won’t pull up the data, it’s easy to find. I know where I work, and I know the numbers locally. And it’s easy to see other places in the country, world. If you are saying only 10% of cases are in vaxxed, I’ll bet you any amount you want that the data says otherwise.

“researchers said” … who are the researchers? Let’s look at COI’s, too.

Most people don’t understand science too well so they submit to MSM articles … and that’s not science at all.

Do you really want me to pull up actual studies, without known COI’s, that demolish what you are stating? I mean, I can … but it’s so easy to find and I don’t have the time.

 

[lvhiker]

This has been a very informative thread. Not interested in relitigating the 2020 election. For me, and some 80 million other Americans, Biden was the better choice. To demonize him for not wearing a mask at that VA rally seems a bit harsh. To point it out and criticize him for it, seems reasonable. I certainly never saw Biden as a savior or as being infallible.

There is a football game tomorrow. Can the voodoo curse end against unr? Possibly but unlikely 🙁

 

[lvhiker]

From the front page of today’s New York Times. 57% of Americans of all ages are fully vaccinated. So the pool of unvaccinated people is smaller than the pool of vaccinated people.

There six times more new cases of Covid among unvaccinated people than among vaccinated people.

There are twelve times as many deaths. Is the vaccine perfect. No, but it works.

One last point. The fact that a new vaccine can be developed in less than a year as opposed to eight to ten years ought to celebrated as a victory of modern science. The thing has been vastly sped up is the ability to construct the vaccine. The testing period for the Covid vaccine was not so different than it was for the polio vaccine, several months compared to a year.

 

[j. spilotro]

From the front page of today’s New York Times. 57% of Americans of all ages are fully vaccinated. So the pool of unvaccinated people is smaller than the pool of vaccinated people.

There six times more new cases of Covid among unvaccinated people than among vaccinated people.

There are twelve times as many deaths. Is the vaccine perfect. No, but it works.

One last point. The fact that a new vaccine can be developed in less than a year as opposed to eight to ten years ought to celebrated as a victory of modern science. The thing has been vastly sped up is the ability to construct the vaccine. The testing period for the Covid vaccine was not so different than it was for the polio vaccine, several months compared to a year.

Oh man. Where to start with you.

Of the vaccinated, how many recovered first? A whole lot of them. Tossing them in to calculate any efficacy … seriously? You don’t see an issue when you take 30+% of recovered (who received the jab), ones that have the best protection possible from natural immunity … and place it in the “vaxxed bucket”? As a scientist, you don’t see this as disingenuous at best? Seriously? You don’t see how much that inflates things? Wow.

I mean, that’s just common sense, not science.

 

[NSU67]

Joe, please post the data yo< have that the vaccines don't work. I agree that they were rushed out, but millions of people have taken them. Is not that a trial?
But, if they don't work, please, please let us see the data. No sarcasm. If you care about us, give us the data that shows the truth.
My wife and I are due for the booster. We need to know.

Would someone please quote this post in its entirety? Joe has me on ignore, and I really want to see the data he is referring to. Thanks.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

This has been a very informative thread. Not interested in relitigating the 2020 election. For me, and some 80 million other Americans, Biden was the better choice. To demonize him for not wearing a mask at that VA rally seems a bit harsh. To point it out and criticize him for it, seems reasonable. I certainly never saw Biden as a savior or as being infallible.

There is a football game tomorrow. Can the voodoo curse end against unr? Possibly but unlikely 🙁

I didn't vote for Trump. Nor am I relitigating the election which President Biden won rather easily. I'm not even questioning or discussing anyone's political views or affiliations. I applaud those who vote and vote their conscious and what they feel is best for them. Not sure what your point was there, other than you assumed because I called out President Biden, I must be some MAGA hat wearing cretin. You would be wrong..

I pointed out the guy telling me to wear a mask for my safety and the safety of others regardless of my vaccination status (vaccinated) was not wearing one in a crowded event. Nor was anyone else in the video.

How pray tell is that harsh? Has he not said we all need to mask up? Has his administration not pushed for masking?

Yes or no?

What makes him any different?

According to you this is dangerous behavior.

It is the height of hypocrisy. You used the term soft coercion in another post. Is this soft hypocrisy?

I'll follow by asking a few questions.

Did VP Kamala Harris say she wouldn't trust a vaccine created under the previous administration? Did other prominent democrats follow suit?

I'll answer for you. The answer is yes. There are receipts.

So was VP Harris' skepticism of the vaccine back then..

A) Politically motivated?

or

B) Backed by science that has since changed?

Rather than admit our side or our guy was wrong, it's excuses and whataboutisms.

You can't froth at the mouth or clutch your pearls about some folks at a bar not wearing a mask, or people complaining about them, or questioning their efficacy but give 'your guy' a pass when he engages in similiar behaviors.

Own it. He set a bad example. His behavior creates skepticism. It sows doubt. He should be getting raked over the coals for it. Because had it been Trump, you and I both know how that exact scenario would have been covered in the news.

Again, not a Trump supporter. Not even a conservative except on fiscal policy.

I just call out BS where I see it...

Also I think people who haven't vaccinated should strongly consider it. At the very least it mitigates symptoms. Especially anybody with conditions that put them more at risk..Obesity, diabetes, over the age of 65 etc..

 

[WarthogRebel]

This has been a very informative thread. Not interested in relitigating the 2020 election. For me, and some 80 million other Americans, Biden was the better choice. To demonize him for not wearing a mask at that VA rally seems a bit harsh. To point it out and criticize him for it, seems reasonable. I certainly never saw Biden as a savior or as being infallible.

There is a football game tomorrow. Can the voodoo curse end against unr? Possibly but unlikely 🙁

"To demonize him for not wearing a mask at that VA rally seems a bit harsh."

It would be harsh except he's demonized others dozens of times for not wearing masks.