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Tavian McNair

I am not sure why you do not think UNLV can win the recruiting battle considering UNLV has already been beating those schools and many other high level programs in the recruiting war for 2025 (based on Rivals list of programs that have made offers). The following is a quick list of mostly higher level programs and how many times UNLV has won recruiting battles with the programs, which shows UNLV can hold their own in recruiting:

(currently UNLV is ranked 58th with 12 recruits which put them in a tie with California with 13 recruits, ahead of Utah who are ranked 62nd with 11 recruits, and behind Kansas with 14 recruits ranked 43rd. The average rating for Kansas is 2.86, the average for California is 2.92, the average for Utah is 3.18, and the average for UNLV is 2.92).

Arizona 4
Arizona State 1
Arkansas 3
Auburn 1
Boston College 3
BYU 2
Cal 1
Colorado 1
Duke 1
Florida Atlantic 1
Fresno State 1
Hawaii 2
Indiana 1
Iowa State 3
Houston 1
Kansas 2
Kansas State 1
Louisville 4
Maryland 2
Memphis 3
Miami 1
Michigan 3
Michigan State 1
Mississippi 1
Missouri 1
Nebraska 2
North Carolina 1
North Texas 2
Oklahoma 2
Oregon 2
Oregon State 1
Penn State 2
Purdue 1
Stanford 1
Tennessee 1
Texas A&M 3
Texas Tech 1
Tulsa 2
UAB 1
Utah 1
UTSA 4
Vanderbilt 1
Virginia Tech 1
Washington 1
Washington State 1
West Virginia 1
Wisconsin 1
I saw Rivals listed Jon Grimmet (TE) and Yasir Muhammed (ATH) also committed
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Tavian McNair

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Whether or not we attend, at least we are getting invited to the party.

I don’t think that we will win this recruiting battle but how great is it to be in the mix for this level of player? Maybe we become a transfer option.
I am not sure why you do not think UNLV can win the recruiting battle considering UNLV has already been beating those schools and many other high level programs in the recruiting war for 2025 (based on Rivals list of programs that have made offers). The following is a quick list of mostly higher level programs and how many times UNLV has won recruiting battles with the programs, which shows UNLV can hold their own in recruiting:

(currently UNLV is ranked 58th with 12 recruits which put them in a tie with California with 13 recruits, ahead of Utah who are ranked 62nd with 11 recruits, and behind Kansas with 14 recruits ranked 43rd. The average rating for Kansas is 2.86, the average for California is 2.92, the average for Utah is 3.18, and the average for UNLV is 2.92).

Arizona 4
Arizona State 1
Arkansas 3
Auburn 1
Boston College 3
BYU 2
Cal 1
Colorado 1
Duke 1
Florida Atlantic 1
Fresno State 1
Hawaii 2
Indiana 1
Iowa State 3
Houston 1
Kansas 2
Kansas State 1
Louisville 4
Maryland 2
Memphis 3
Miami 1
Michigan 3
Michigan State 1
Mississippi 1
Missouri 1
Nebraska 2
North Carolina 1
North Texas 2
Oklahoma 2
Oregon 2
Oregon State 1
Penn State 2
Purdue 1
Stanford 1
Tennessee 1
Texas A&M 3
Texas Tech 1
Tulsa 2
UAB 1
Utah 1
UTSA 4
Vanderbilt 1
Virginia Tech 1
Washington 1
Washington State 1
West Virginia 1
Wisconsin 1

PAC 8?

I wonder what it takes to keep the conference going. A rebuilt PAC can be announced and agreed upon as early as next yet after 8/2/25. Is that enough? In terms of the NCAA and tournament money, I would imagine that would suffice. Especially if the new league starts by the first football game of 2026.

As for knowing what each team is worth, I'm sure the PAC teams and president know exactly what each MW teams brings to the table financially. They have been talking to TV people for several years, and tey have been looking at MW as possible expansion candidates for the old pac 12 for a while.

As for bringing everyone together and hashing this out? Not going to happen. Gloria has to protect the whole conference, or at least appear to do so. Also people aren't going to look at Wyoming's prez and say, your TV numbers aren't good enough. This is all about money, but outward facing apparently it is poor taste to say that out loud.

Actually having 6 teams leave is better for the survival of the MW. They will have some remaining decent football and basketball teams to rebuild from. They will keep NCAAT revenue, they will be able to add some teams to stay afloat. Their revenue will drop so that sucks.
Agee I think it will be better if there is 2 western conferences versus one. MW would not be done. Can add UTEP, New Mexico St, Montana, Montana St. North Dakota St and South Dakota st. Maybe Grand Canyon for Basketball. There’s options.

Can see new PAC and MW come up with scheduling agreements to keep rivalries in place.
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PAC 8?

I feel you are on to something here. Why wait two years and play the MWC in a scheduling agreement in football if the plan is a reverse merger? Makes no sense. Barring a Big 12 invite (not going to happen) this appears to be the PAC ‘s best option. Go lean with more $$$ per school and wait for more fall out. Also, what ever course the PAC 2 takes it will include the advice of the TV executives as to the value of the TV contract.

6/30/26 (or maybe 7/1/26). But there again, our $30M in future NCAA BB money is at risk here. Otherwise we already don't really have a conference.

What we need, which will never happen because this isn't how things are done, is to get all the MW and Pac-2 reps (prez's or AD's whatever) in a room with Gloria and our lame ass Commissioner Teresa Gould, and lay all the cards on the table. No conversation or option is sacred. What does the money look like on both sides, poaching and exit penalties, NCAA allocations, media rights current and imagined, bowl tie-ins, attendance, eyeballs on TV's, etc. No F-ing lawyers, media or anyone else.

No backdoor or airport shenanigans.

Welcome to Fantasy Island. Da Plane, da Plane!!!
I wonder what it takes to keep the conference going. A rebuilt PAC can be announced and agreed upon as early as next year after 8/2/25. Is that enough? In terms of the NCAA and tournament money, I would imagine that would suffice. Especially if the new league starts by the first football game of 2026.

As for knowing what each team is worth, I'm sure the PAC teams and president know exactly what each MW teams brings to the table financially. They have been talking to TV people for several years, and they have been looking at MW as possible expansion candidates for the old pac 12 for a while.

As for bringing everyone together and hashing this out? Not going to happen. Gloria has to protect the whole conference, or at least appear to do so. Also people aren't going to look at Wyoming's prez and say, your TV numbers aren't good enough. This is all about money, but outward facing apparently it is poor taste to say that out loud.

Actually having 6 teams leave is better for the survival of the MW. They will have some remaining decent football and basketball teams to rebuild from. They will keep NCAAT revenue, they will be able to add some teams to stay afloat. Their revenue will drop so that sucks.

PAC 8?

ACC is not going to merge with new PAC/MW. They have plenty of teams in the east they can add. UConn, Memphis, South Florida, Tulane.

You don’t need 12 teams for championship game anymore.

It’s a no brainer for the top half of the Mountain West to break away. They have over 25k fans in the seats for football games, markets and/or brands. Which provides more value and less team to divide it up with.

The lower half average about 15k a game for football and/or don’t have a market. Wyoming has a good football program and New Mexico has a market. Utah state just wins. They would be the next up if Washington state and Oregon State move on in the future.

Agree on Big 12 being our best possible spot in the future. Both football and basketball have to able to compete consistently. Think the first step is a new PAC.

PAC 8?

you're right.. That'll never happen, but the conversation should take place. Unfortunately, I just dont see Media rights being anywhere close to worthwhile enough to burn cash in the hopes that itll put that new conference on a "even" tier with the other P4s. Itll just be a slightly more lean version of a G5 and its very clear that the P4 didnt want another high tier conference otherwise they wouldn't have done the stupidity of stretching the Big 10 market into SoCal and Seattle (coast to coast)..
I also dont think he ACC will just fall apart and or the Big 12.. Makes no sense to just have 2 conferences for major college football, unless your creating a minor league for the NFL and basically calling it like the AFC and NFC. I think the ACC will hold together and if they lose certain players in the next few years, that revenue from buyouts might be enough to redistribute and bring back teams that dont belong in say the Big 10- looking at you Maryland and Rutgers, maybe WVU... Honestly Id like to see some redistribution of programs in these wacky geographical conferences.. Plus, WVU getting enticed to go to the ACC opens a spot for UNLV in the Big 12, lol

PAC 8?

I feel you are on to something here. Why wait two years and play the MWC in a scheduling agreement in football if the plan is a reverse merger? Makes no sense. Barring a Big 12 invite (not going to happen) this appears to be the PAC ‘s best option. Go lean with more $$$ per school and wait for more fall out. Also, what ever course the PAC 2 takes it will include the advice of the TV executives as to the value of the TV contract.
What we need, which will never happen because this isn't how things are done, is to get all the MW and Pac-2 reps (prez's or AD's whatever) in a room with Gloria and our lame ass Commissioner Teresa Gould, and lay all the cards on the table. No conversation or option is sacred. What does the money look like on both sides, poaching and exit penalties, NCAA allocations, media rights current and imagined, bowl tie-ins, attendance, eyeballs on TV's, etc. No F-ing lawyers, media or anyone else.

No backdoor or airport shenanigans.

Welcome to Fantasy Island. Da Plane, da Plane!!!

PAC 8?

I just don't buy the ACC implosion, and if it happens it will take years, IMHO. Who knows what the landscape will be then? I just don't see any sense of urgency in the Pac-2, which is exactly what we need IMHO. Wait and see will bite us in the ass. And our shitty leadership (we have now elevated our lifer interim AD to permanent) will F-it up.
I can understand your frustration. But the PAC has to add 6 schools by the end of 2026 or it will cease to exist as a conference. IMO that’s urgency.
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PAC 8?

They could stucture the schedule for the upper teams, they could even have an unbalanced revenue structure for the contract like the B12 has done in the past, but that didnt work out well and steered TAMU to the SEC. He'll the MW is still salty about Boise's deal.
But you still have to pay those weak market teams something. Adding them drives down per school revenue no matter hownthey slice it. You could make the argument that they may be worth it for NCAA tournament dollars, but SDSU are the only team that can win games. So there is that.
It's about the bottom line, just like every other conference alignment decision.
The more I look at it, the more it looks like this may have been the plan for quite some time now. Why set up the 2 year agreement with the MW? Why not just merge right away?
To wait and see if the ACC blows up? Perhaps, but that is risky. I am no lawyer, but those ACC signed the contract agreeing to those ridiculous buyouts. Im nitnsure what kind of argument thise teams suing really have. So that is a risk in counting on a NoCal reunion, especially those schools who have made their decisions without any logic. I would say it could be less than 50/50 that they would rejoin anyway of the ACC did blow up.
But the 2 years lines up perfectly with the MW contract. If the 6 MW detectors announce on 8/2/25 the large fees are gone, perhaps all fees, and the New PAC 8 starts in 2026 fall without much of a financial hit.
You could argue that they wanted to wait until the MW is over to develop a new TV contact with a reverse merger, but these contracts are being ammedended all the time with this realignment stuff, so that argument is weak. FOX and CBS are good partners. Its not like the MW are playing on the CW and Apple TV. I'm sure they would have amended the contract by creating a new PAC already if it was going to be a tradional merger/reverse merger.
I feel you are on to something here. Why wait two years and play the MWC in a scheduling agreement in football if the plan is a reverse merger? Makes no sense. Barring a Big 12 invite (not going to happen) this appears to be the PAC ‘s best option. Go lean with more $$$ per school and wait for more fall out. Also, what ever course the PAC 2 takes it will include the advice of the TV executives as to the value of the TV contract.

PAC 8?

They could stucture the schedule for the upper teams, they could even have an unbalanced revenue structure for the contract like the B12 has done in the past, but that didnt work out well and steered TAMU to the SEC. He'll the MW is still salty about Boise's deal.
But you still have to pay those weak market teams something. Adding them drives down per school revenue no matter hownthey slice it. You could make the argument that they may be worth it for NCAA tournament dollars, but SDSU are the only team that can win games. So there is that.
It's about the bottom line, just like every other conference alignment decision.
The more I look at it, the more it looks like this may have been the plan for quite some time now. Why set up the 2 year agreement with the MW? Why not just merge right away?
To wait and see if the ACC blows up? Perhaps, but that is risky. I am no lawyer, but those ACC signed the contract agreeing to those ridiculous buyouts. Im nitnsure what kind of argument thise teams suing really have. So that is a risk in counting on a NoCal reunion, especially those schools who have made their decisions without any logic. I would say it could be less than 50/50 that they would rejoin anyway of the ACC did blow up.
But the 2 years lines up perfectly with the MW contract. If the 6 MW detectors announce on 8/2/25 the large fees are gone, perhaps all fees, and the New PAC 8 starts in 2026 fall without much of a financial hit.
You could argue that they wanted to wait until the MW is over to develop a new TV contact with a reverse merger, but these contracts are being ammedended all the time with this realignment stuff, so that argument is weak. FOX and CBS are good partners. Its not like the MW are playing on the CW and Apple TV. I'm sure they would have amended the contract by creating a new PAC already if it was going to be a tradional merger/reverse merger.
I just don't buy the ACC implosion, and if it happens it will take years, IMHO. Who knows what the landscape will be then? I just don't see any sense of urgency in the Pac-2, which is exactly what we need IMHO. Wait and see will bite us in the ass. And our shitty leadership (we have now elevated our lifer interim AD to permanent) will F-it up.
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Pacific December 14

I always look at the neutral ranking when I'm figuring the quads in my head.
Fair.
But there is something to climbing to below 70. Being a quad 1 road team really opens up potential to schedule true home games. Especially when towards the bottom of that ranking.
Good teams aren't penalized too much if they lose and to them it is a great opportunity to pick up another quad 1 win.
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PAC 8?

So much in this thread. Couple of my thoughts, then off to bed.

Media rights - Agree that any deal will be far, far less than what WSU is used to, but that is just reality. No point in looking back or comparing. Any deal would be better than the basically $-0- the Pac-2 is looking at in FY 24 and probably FY25 if we renew. I kind of question that 9/1/24 2nd year renewal deadline. We looked at that language a while back, and I was confused. May find and read through it again.

Our 2-year grace period as a conference ends 6/30/26. At this point, all that may matter is the subsequent loss of the $30M in NCAA BB $ if we cease to exist. But that is $15M each for WSU and OSU. Not chump change. We are basically independents now. for all other purposes.

A PacMtn-14 media deal - so what's to stop the league from structuring a deal where the upper half gets all the desirable games, and relegate the "no-eyeballs or interest" schools to the poop schedule? That's more or less what we had in the Pac-12. USC, etc in primetime on the big networks, WSU playing at 7PM on the Pac-12 network. Not always but to some extent. Not sure how that would work financially among the schools.

So much more, but I stick to the notion of a Pac-8 being stupid. And what about the MW's NCAA 6=year allocations? they stay with the remaining teams like ours did? How much is that? And all the poaching penalty money? Shit the bottom feeders probably are hoping a handful of you bail.
They could structure the schedule for the upper teams, they could even have an unbalanced revenue structure for the contract like the B12 has done in the past, but that didn't work out well and steered TAMU to the SEC. Hell, the MW is still salty about Boise's deal.
But you still have to pay those weak market teams something. Adding them drives down per school revenue no matter how they slice it. You could make the argument that they may be worth it for NCAA tournament dollars, but SDSU are the only team that can win games. So there is that.
It's about the bottom line, just like every other conference alignment decision.
The more I look at it, the more it looks like this may have been the plan for quite some time now. Why set up the 2 year agreement with the MW? Why not just merge right away?
To wait and see if the ACC blows up? Perhaps, but that is risky. I am no lawyer, but those ACC signed the contract agreeing to those ridiculous buyouts. I'm not sure what kind of argument these teams suing really have. So that is a risk in counting on a NoCal reunion, especially those schools who have made their decisions without any logic. I would say it could be less than 50/50 that they would rejoin anyway of the ACC did blow up.
But the 2 years lines up perfectly with the MW contract. If the 6 MW detectors announce on 8/2/25 the large fees are gone, perhaps all fees, and the New PAC 8 starts in 2026 fall without much of a financial hit.
You could argue that they wanted to wait until the MW is over to develop a new TV contact with a reverse merger, but these contracts are being amended all the time with this realignment stuff, so that argument is weak. FOX and CBS are good partners. Its not like the MW are playing on the CW and Apple TV. I'm sure they would have amended the contract by creating a new PAC already if it was going to be a traditional merger/reverse merger.

PAC 8?

I know that they gave an exception in 2016 (starting in 2017) for the Big12, but I had thought that was just for the Big12, but I couldn't find the bylaw changes. Looks like the AAC also got the exception in 2017 so I'm just wrong/confused. Thanks for the clarification!

This is the only article I could find, but it sure sounds like all restrictions are lifted for all conferences

PAC 8?

2 years ago they changed that rule of requiring 12 teams for a championship game. I references that above. They did that for the big 12 when it got down to 10 teams. There is no minimum requirement anymore.
I know that they gave an exception in 2016 (starting in 2017) for the Big12, but I had thought that was just for the Big12, but I couldn't find the bylaw changes. Looks like the AAC also got the exception in 2017 so I'm just wrong/confused. Thanks for the clarification!

PAC 8?

I will continue to say, our best bet at keeping sports relevant isn't jumping to a compact Pac 8 or sticking to the MWC +2, but continuing to excel at football and inviting Big 12 to constantly hold events in our buildings and city...
That should be the goal and honestly this doesn't change that very much.
But it is a pipedream. Especially with an ACC blowup, UNLV will br far down the list for expansion for the B12. They don't need UNLV to get Vegas. In a way it is almost a detriment due to the competitive advantage it can give the hometown school.
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PAC 8?

But I'm not talking a huge gap. Im talking about the new Monopolization of Power amongst the P4s who now have consolidated into an even tighter group of competing powers. They've essentially created a secondary tier competitively between them and the G5s. If I'm a TV executive moving forward into that new reality that they've negotiated with those 4 conferences, why would I throw more money at these smaller programs/markets? Might it be a small increase than currently, maybe, but again, G5s have essentially become more competitive versions of FCS schools compared to the Big 4 and I expect future TV negotiations to reflect that current difference between what are G5 contracts and the FCS conferences and their media deals. That's why ultimately unless there is some sort of NCAA governance change, the P4s will become their own division of NCAA or their own league entirely, and everyone else will once gain fall into a subdivision category. The Pac-12s break up isnt an opportunity to reform a slimmer but more competitive league with more dollars because it gets viewed on the same competitive level as the P4, it was the death of a really true NCAA D1 and the first step towards the creation of a league of their own.
I agree 100% I think we are talking about 2 separate things here.
The Pac 8 would be on the outside looking in.
Since there is such a huge gap and you practically relegated to a lower division, to me that makes more sense to try to maximize revenue but cutting out the market fat. Which is what this is proposing.

PAC 8?

That PAC8 would be a pretty solid league.

But 8 teams means no football championship game, and no championship game means you're going to get less money.

You have to have 12 teams if you want a title game.

Ideally the ACC explodes. You add Cal and Stanford + two other teams looking to move up, but if you want to dip into Texas, you'll almost have to go at last 14 teams to give them some regional travel partners. SMU and UTSA means that New Mexico and Tulane or Utah State make a lot of sense for travel partners.

Gun to my head, I think the 16 team WAC with rotating 4 team blocks was the most elegant way to handle a lot of these things--just too far ahead of its time.
2 years ago they changed that rule of requiring 12 teams for a championship game. I references that above. They did that for the big 12 when it got down to 10 teams. There is no minimum requirement anymore.

PAC 8?

Right now I feel anything is possible. Because 3 years ago who would have anticipated the blow up of the PAC 12? Right now the ACC could lose 7 schools. That would bring their numbers to 10. I could foresee a ACC PAC alliance in some form where the conference champions play each other for an automatic bid in football to the playoffs.
So much in this thread. Couple of my thoughts, then off to bed.

Media rights - Agree that any deal will be far, far less than what WSU is used to, but that is just reality. No point in looking back or comparing. Any deal would be better than the basically $-0- the Pac-2 is looking at in FY 24 and probably FY25 if we renew. I kind of question that 9/1/24 2nd year renewal deadline. We looked at that language a while back, and I was confused. May find and read through it again.

Our 2-year grace period as a conference ends 6/30/26. At this point, all that may matter is the subsequent loss of the $30M in NCAA BB $ if we cease to exist. But that is $15M each for WSU and OSU. Not chump change. We are basically independents now. for all other purposes.

A PacMtn-14 media deal - so what's to stop the league from structuring a deal where the upper half gets all the desirable games, and relegate the "no-eyeballs or interest" schools to the poop schedule? That's more or less what we had in the Pac-12. USC, etc in primetime on the big networks, WSU playing at 7PM on the Pac-12 network. Not always but to some extent. Not sure how that would work financially among the schools.

So much more, but I stick to the notion of a Pac-8 being stupid. And what about the MW's NCAA 6=year allocations? they stay with the remaining teams like ours did? How much is that? And all the poaching penalty money? Shit the bottom feeders probably are hoping a handful of you bail.
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