PAC is playing checkers
- By oneepstein
- Rebel Football
- 17 Replies
Did this m’fer just make a Colecovision reference?Squish'm Sam on Colecovision
Well played sir.
Did this m’fer just make a Colecovision reference?Squish'm Sam on Colecovision
The Big12?But...
What if the Pac is "thriving" but UNLV is still out pacing them by dominating all 3 major sports and their revenue is only slightly behind the payouts the Pac 7 teams are receiving?.... who wins then?
No argument from this Coug......It really is bad business in the sense that she torched relationships by announcing 4 teams and using terms like "reviewed the metrics" for those you invited.. You immediately placed an "elitist" view on the rest of the programs you wanted to attract. Then you allow an article to be written where you thump your chest at this massively secretive takeover like you had won announcing to everyone that part of the offers had been to off paying exit fees for the 4 teams to join you.. Then you thought because no one could possibly say no to joining the "best top to bottom G5", you'd low ball your eastern partners... Except they didnt appreciate the low ball and disrespect, and neither did the next tier of MWC schools. So you thought heck we'll take USU despite all its current problems and that will cause the MWC to crumble... Except it didnt and now your best target in the MWC said no and took a huge payday, immediately increasing their programs viability... Now all your other targets are been courted by the MWC and their commissioner has better relationships and understands the game... Will be a fascinating article/30 for 30 or something once the dust settles.
Of course, the value of a product is what a market is willing to offer--and maybe the PAC did leak actual numbers or have someone at like the CW ball park them with 12 million. With the streaming market hungry for sports content, and the profitability of even low viewership sports we might both be surprised--but I would tend to agree that the PAC is going to attract a little more money even with a SactoSt lineup than the current MWC iteration will.This really is all somewhat moot what WE think the market values are.
The things that matters is what THEIR media partners value these schools. They are writing the checks. They are looking at the data, they are making these decisions.
I believe every move has been made under the guidance of their media partners. This has been reported. According to them we are at best 5th in the current MW.
I don't think any team in the current MW is worth more than the PAC 2. At least not to their partners. Now the usage of their infrastructure probably plays a role in all of this.
But I think many of these numbers were legit. I do think it was 12 mil with the AAC 4 and with Gonzaga.
I think if UNLV was #8, then the deal would have been 8-10 per team. I don't think the swap of the AAC 4 with with new MW 2 would swing the per team payout by more than 33%.
Again re alignment doesn't happen without TV partners. They are driving the bus. I think all deals are made because of this.
But...In 2-3-4 years we'll know who was playing what game and who won.
If UNLV is in BIG12 UNLV won.
If PAC is thriving and MWC is struggling and UNLV is still there. PAC won.
And the door to the PAC will never be fully closed so long as we remain as one of the top G5 programs/markets. Latter will only get better. Former is the big question. Hence go for the $$ and plow it into the program.Fair point, about the 12 mil. I do think that can be talked down as well. The PAC was able to do it. But I think assuming it stays at 12 mil is fair.
AS for new G5 conferences I would give the new PAC a pretty big edge, just because they are still better at the top and stronger throughout. so maybe 60%/40%
Good point on the loss of money by annoucing now with the future payout difference and the flat bonus we are getting. Though I think only the flat payment really matters, the rest of the distrubution is just going to supplement our new sh!tty contract, it total value with the extra stipend could easily be less than what we are making now.
Also the goal is to get out of this new MW ASAP. I think UNLV is going all in, and said no to the PAC and will push for the Big 12. so the end goal goal is that we don't see that much of the 25 mil promised, because hopefully we are gone before the second half is paid to us.
But it does feel like we won a modest jackpot, but have to take a paycut at our job, instead of taking the new job where they aren't offering moving expenses but our salary will be raised 2x-3 over the current payout
All that being said, If we are truly going all n for P4, I can get down with that. It probably isn't the smartest long term play, but if they think it is truly attainable, then eff it. Let's go for it!
This is where UNLV Alum and fans have every right to be angry with the school. Decades of mismanagement after given the gift of Tarkanian.33 years of just crap!
Fair point, about the 12 mil. I do think that can be talked down as well. The PAC was able to do it. But I think assuming it stays at 12 mil is fair.Agree on some… disagree on some… and you have some good points.
Disagree on the market size as Couev pointed out, but yes, the revenue will be less with a good chance a good amount less, how much remains to be seen and the PAC seems to have overestimated their worth AND shot themselves in the foot by now having to look at the same teams for acceptance.
And you’re right UNLV would have seemed a perfect fit and capped off their coup, and as you said would make them seem legit.
That’s not egotism, because everyone knows how poorly we’ve performed over the years, but plug in any other team (other than those they’ve already been rejected by) and tell me the PAC is gonna look legit. This is the shooting themselves in the foot part.
I think the $18 million number has a good chance of holding, but at dead worst it’s gonna be $12 million since that’s basically the amount that will be withheld from future payments to any of the leaving teams. They can try to sue, but I don’t think anybody is getting a refund.
When all is said and done UNLV will have made/saved at a bare minimum $25 million by staying. Another thing is that when that money and that move becomes relevant. Here’s what I mean by that:
Had UNLV decided to go to the PAC they would have seen their las bit of income from the MW… that’s $6 million in June 2025 and $6 million in June 2026. They would not see a dollar in media revenue until a PAC media deal kicked in and who know when that would be, but I’m going to assume it’s not til June of 2027 or thereabouts.
By staying, UNLV will get those payments, plus the bonus promised ($10-$12 million?) in 2025, plus normal distribution of $6 million and a smaller bonus ($1.8 million?) in 2026. Between now and 2026 that’s $24-$26 million you get and $12 million you don’t lose, so the difference in money on hand by June 2026 is $36-$38 million.
The next part of it is that any difference in reduced revenue you get from the MW’s next deal versus what you might get in the PACs new deal doesn’t occur until 2027… it’s at that point that you can start to deduct what you’re making from what you could’ve made. You’ve also got to remember that each year for 5 years (assuming UNLV stayed with the MW for the duration) there is roughly another $1.5 million coming to UNLV on top of whatever they get from the new media deal.
And the clock doesn’t start counting down for almost 3 years.
Nobody knows what the difference in media rights payments between the two conferences is going to be, but even if it’s a $5 million difference (which based on what I’ve read seems possible to not even be that much)… it ends up only being a $3.5 million deficit for 5 years through 2032. At that point UNLV would still be up roughly $20 million.
As far as comparing the two leagues… no it’s not close for football. They definitely have a leg up and an advantage… but they’re still G5 and they’re not the clear G5 favorite over the AAC.
Only one G5 is getting in any given year and so much luck and favoritism goes into who that’s going to be that I’d argue the AAC has a better chance year in and year out because of the footprint of their league. They’re just in WAY more markets. The PAC really screwed themselves by concentrating their footprint the way they have.
If I was putting a percentage on chances a G5 team from one of the leagues gets the CFP spot Id say AAC 45%, PAC 35%, anybody else 20%.
Leg up? You bet. Guaranteed to actually be a successful league… nope.
And basketball… less advantage than you might think. Aside from StDSU, none of them have been world beaters. In any given year any one of them CAN be good, but there’s more than a little bit of parity with the rest of them and none of them have near the potential to become big basketball brands, other than StDSU of course.
On the other hand UNLV and UNM have tremendous potential. UNM fan support is outstanding and UNLV has more unrealized potential than maybe anyone in the country.
If KK doesn’t deliver a top 25 ranking and an NCAA appearance, and maybe a win of at least one game, you’ve got enough money to pay Odom AND hire a coach who can deliver those things.
So those things make me feel better about things.
I was hoping someone would know the Chunky Asses reference...anyone?Good because I read this for the articles!
Squish'm Sam on ColecovisionNo, more like Eye of the Beholder on the Commodore 64 or Choplifter on the VIC 20.
2 2s is 4, 2 4s is 8Let's say that they earn $3M more per school than they would have in the MWC. They paid about $18M to leave. They will break even in 6 years (at 0% interest) in 6 years.
Even to someone like @reagan21 this isn't good math.
PAC mismanagement is off the charts, really. If you’re going to go behind the MW’s back with secret meetings and what not. You need to have every assurance imaginable from the AAC schools or you needed to have 6 mw schools from the get go. I don’t know that there is a single school or fan base that is ok with where things are at currently. Ironically, us and Air Force are getting the best deal out of everyone involved, but still not an ideal scenario
Ricky White is a wr. Of course he's going to support the quarterback.. he wants the rock.Definitely. Hajj already has the confidence of the locker room. It wasn’t a mistake that people like Ricky White posted support. I want us to punch out against the traitor schools so I can bring a “metrics” sign.
I AM Derek Stevens.“The parties indicated a hope that the conversation could lead to an expanded relationship.”
- Implies that the relationship between UNLV and Stevens/Circa is not very deep. I’m not an insider so there could be a long-standing relationship here but that sentence from the article implies otherwise.
Why the sensitivity to my comment? Do you work for Stevens or UNLV Athletics? Honest question.
She let her lady wood get in the way of common sense.
PAC mismanagement is off the charts, really. If you’re going to go behind the MW’s back with secret meetings and what not. You need to have every assurance imaginable from the AAC schools or you needed to have 6 mw schools from the get go. I don’t know that there is a single school or fan base that is ok with where things are at currently. Ironically, us and Air Force are getting the best deal out of everyone involved, but still not an ideal scenarioThe good thing (if you can call it that) about there not being great options available.
PAC is in the same boat.
And nobody can tell me that there isn't some sniping in those PAC meetings now. This is not where they envisioned this going.
I really thought initially the PAC had handshake agreements with Memphis and Co. And it was a done deal. I figured no way they would be this dumb and just assume they could get whoever they wanted.
However.
Until proven otherwise, I now think Memphis and Company played the PAC to get a better deal out of the AAC.
The initial 4 SDSU/BOISE/CSU/FRESNO can't be happy with where this is at right now. It's not what was promised.
She let her lady wood get in the way of common sense.It really is bad business in the sense that she torched relationships by announcing 4 teams and using terms like "reviewed the metrics" for those you invited.. You immediately placed an "elitist" view on the rest of the programs you wanted to attract. Then you allow an article to be written where you thump your chest at this massively secretive takeover like you had won announcing to everyone that part of the offers had been to off paying exit fees for the 4 teams to join you.. Then you thought because no one could possibly say no to joining the "best top to bottom G5", you'd low ball your eastern partners... Except they didnt appreciate the low ball and disrespect, and neither did the next tier of MWC schools. So you thought heck we'll take USU despite all its current problems and that will cause the MWC to crumble... Except it didnt and now your best target in the MWC said no and took a huge payday, immediately increasing their programs viability... Now all your other targets are been courted by the MWC and their commissioner has better relationships and understands the game... Will be a fascinating article/30 for 30 or something once the dust settles.