Well I haven't seen the most recent presser or Reb Zone, but last week DB was day to day. Stating that he would go as soon as he was healthy.
A little premature to rule him out IMHO, lol.
A little premature to rule him out IMHO, lol.
Depth chart came out....
- Thread starter lobbybuu
- Start date
If Brum gave up, our starting QB and RB are both freshmen. Both named Jayden and Jai'Den? lol
That being said, I hope Brum sticks around and be a good leader and teammate.
Depth Chart today says "or" under QB...
Unlv football twitter had game announcement promo with Maiava photo...
Me:
Unlv football twitter had game announcement promo with Maiava photo...
Me:
DB has given us the best of his abilities over the last 3 years imo. I thank him. It's time to give the next guy our support. Close the DB chapter and wish him the best. There are a few on here that get it. Looking forward to what Maiava shows us against Hawaii. Go Rebels.
Did he say that? Or you're quoting his actions from last game?
I think Maiava is the guy most likely to give the offense success. His option reads are slightly better and his passing is a lot better, especially in the short and intermediate route tree. He doesn't have DougieB's homerun rushing ability, but he's not a slouch.
I think the staff won't just take the starting job from Doug as a captain, but I think they're going to give JM the chance to combine a challenge in practice combined with in-game results to move towards that starting position.
The Hawai'i game is a great place to give both quarterbacks play time with the starters in a game situation and then you can start really evaluating apples to apples tape to go with whatever they're seeing in practice. Not every program allows competition mid-season at every position, but if you can show Doug losing his job because of performance across multiple levels instead of just because he got dinged you won't lose as much locker room cred.
I think the staff won't just take the starting job from Doug as a captain, but I think they're going to give JM the chance to combine a challenge in practice combined with in-game results to move towards that starting position.
The Hawai'i game is a great place to give both quarterbacks play time with the starters in a game situation and then you can start really evaluating apples to apples tape to go with whatever they're seeing in practice. Not every program allows competition mid-season at every position, but if you can show Doug losing his job because of performance across multiple levels instead of just because he got dinged you won't lose as much locker room cred.
Disagree.. 2 QB systems rarely work and cause a lot of confusion with starters. That has more a detrimental effect than just saying go with Maiava and let DB sort through his feelings. This is a new staff and probably cares less about "locker room Cred" than they do about winning... These players want to win and respect both guys, and trust the staff. DB is an adult, he didn't perform great when he got his chances, he can always go elsewhere if he desires. Use the season to get fully healthy and be a backup in case something happens moving forward. We need to bank wins and Hawaii, Reno, CSU all provide that opportunity. You dont want to try something funky against a good offensive like Hawaii and blow golden opportunities that you're then forced to overcome vs much better competition later.
I think a few important things to remember is:
1) JM is a freshman and will have his ups and downs. Consistency is important to this coaching staff and I think this could be a reason they are hesitating on going all in with JM.
2) Injuries happen. If JM is proclaimed to be the guy, but goes down with injury, it’s important to ensure DB is still engaged and ready to come in and perform. No offense to Friel, but DB has proven to be the better option by far.
3) DB is still a captain on this team. He proved that throughout the entire offseason when he decided to rally behind the new coaching staff when they came on board. He’s a big reason we didn’t see more players bail. That’s important and means something, regardless of current results in the season.
1) JM is a freshman and will have his ups and downs. Consistency is important to this coaching staff and I think this could be a reason they are hesitating on going all in with JM.
2) Injuries happen. If JM is proclaimed to be the guy, but goes down with injury, it’s important to ensure DB is still engaged and ready to come in and perform. No offense to Friel, but DB has proven to be the better option by far.
3) DB is still a captain on this team. He proved that throughout the entire offseason when he decided to rally behind the new coaching staff when they came on board. He’s a big reason we didn’t see more players bail. That’s important and means something, regardless of current results in the season.
We saw it in the Vandy game and in the UTEP game. Different cadences between DB and JM have likely contributed to false starts. QB/center exchange is different (which hasn't caused any obvious issues), even handing the ball off is different between two guys and the exchange can be troubled.
Needless to say beyond that, blocking can be impacted based on QB tendency to stay or take off, and the type of ball thrown is different for WRs. Everybody is effected if those two guys aren't nearly identical in execution
I still don't think Doug has not been given a chance to run with a wide open playbook in a competitive situation. Simple as that. If he gets another chance, it is because the staff knows this too.
Doug had like 5 plays in the Vandy game. 2 or 3 of them were bad runs. 2 of them he got crushed from poor pass protection. Knocking him out of the game.
Even JM struggled in that first quarter when he came in. The O line was having big time troubles.
It hasn't been apples to apples, so by going by in game performance only right now isn't enough information.
Maiava has looked better overall. Though I would say JM at UTEP looked pretty comparable to Doug in the Bryant game. Heavy on the run, short passes, missed a lot of the deeper looks. Got a lot of yards on catch and runs.
I agree that I am not a fan of a 2 QB plan. The only exception would be giving Doug a start and plan on letting him ride it out for a half barring disaster. Then making a one time switch back to JM if warranted. If he is playing well, don't switch.
But this is only if the staff feels like Doug deserves the job back. That may not happen.
Maiva gotta be #1 moving forward. If Brum is OK with waiting as backup use him as a game changer sub in certain situations maybe a series or two here and there. If not, Friel is good as backup. None of these QBs is getting any time with our pass blocking so it's likely gonna be a carousel as the season goes on just plug one in and see who's clicking in that game. Still waiting for the day UNLV uses the TE as a pass catching option.
The negative recruiting thread this opens up sort of writes itself.
'So, Mr. and Mrs Recruit, I know Johnny Committed to UNLV, but will UNLV really commit to them and to your family? Did you hear about how they treated Doug Brumfield? The staff reached out to him and he agreed to stay and he helped the staff retain a bunch of players after the coaching change. He was a leader on and off the field and won the job through spring and fall camp and was voted by his peers as a team captain. Then they put him out there to get killed against Michigan, and he got knocked out of the game against Vandy, and well a freshman behind him had a pretty good game or two so they told him he lost his job. Didn't give him a chance to get his job back and told him to hit the road if he didn't like it. If they show zero loyalty to Doug Brumfield, how much will they show Johnny when it counts?'
Locker room cred isn't just about keeping the players you have, it's about what those big time transfers who come in for a year and talk to the other players and find out that if they get dinged they might lose their only shot. It matters in the communities where these players come from with high school coaches--and it will hurt us recruiting SoCal and anywhere else.
I firmly believe that any position should be open for competition and nothing is ever guaranteed, but there are negative repercussions to making this move in the fashion that seems to be the en vogue thing on the board right now. And I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because I seem like the only one that's considering it.
As for this next game, if Doug doesn't practice enough, it won't matter he probably shouldn't play.
'So, Mr. and Mrs Recruit, I know Johnny Committed to UNLV, but will UNLV really commit to them and to your family? Did you hear about how they treated Doug Brumfield? The staff reached out to him and he agreed to stay and he helped the staff retain a bunch of players after the coaching change. He was a leader on and off the field and won the job through spring and fall camp and was voted by his peers as a team captain. Then they put him out there to get killed against Michigan, and he got knocked out of the game against Vandy, and well a freshman behind him had a pretty good game or two so they told him he lost his job. Didn't give him a chance to get his job back and told him to hit the road if he didn't like it. If they show zero loyalty to Doug Brumfield, how much will they show Johnny when it counts?'
Locker room cred isn't just about keeping the players you have, it's about what those big time transfers who come in for a year and talk to the other players and find out that if they get dinged they might lose their only shot. It matters in the communities where these players come from with high school coaches--and it will hurt us recruiting SoCal and anywhere else.
I firmly believe that any position should be open for competition and nothing is ever guaranteed, but there are negative repercussions to making this move in the fashion that seems to be the en vogue thing on the board right now. And I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because I seem like the only one that's considering it.
As for this next game, if Doug doesn't practice enough, it won't matter he probably shouldn't play.
Luckily every school out there likely has similiar scenarios.
I really do understand what youre saying and you make very very very good points. In regards to recruiting SoCal, Doug and his family do not hold a lot of weight in recruiting. They're not the Clarkson family or DJU family where they hold a lot of weight and people listen to what theyre saying. It seems like the staff didnt even really recruit CA in 2024. 2025 and beyond it seems like they are but any player worth getting probably wont come here.
Every school goes through injuries and losing jobs because of it. Thats literally how college athletics work. You dont perform? Youre out. You get hurt and the one that fills in for you performs? Youre out.
With that being said, I'm assuming that if DB is healthy, then you believe that he should be starting over Maiava?
I think a lot of people are saying Maiava should start because over the past 3 years, DB has played and hasnt look "good" so why let him keep playing when Maiava has been playing well while DB has been injured. Thats the gist of what people are saying if Im reading it correctly.
Based off what the Coach is saying, it sounds like it is due to injury.
This could be lip service, it could be to throw off the opposition, or *gasp* it could be the truth.
The way they handled Jaden last game, not throwing much at all, makes me think they will go back to Doug once healthy. Considering the play calls previously in his games. Now part of that may be ball control and part of the gameplan against UTEP and their weak defense. The GoGo needs the run game to be a threat to fully open up. Establishing the run after a couple of games where it wasn't great makes sense.
But the GoGo is meant to have passing, and passing downfield. We didn't try very much. You would think with the run game clicking, they would have?
This could be lip service, it could be to throw off the opposition, or *gasp* it could be the truth.
The way they handled Jaden last game, not throwing much at all, makes me think they will go back to Doug once healthy. Considering the play calls previously in his games. Now part of that may be ball control and part of the gameplan against UTEP and their weak defense. The GoGo needs the run game to be a threat to fully open up. Establishing the run after a couple of games where it wasn't great makes sense.
But the GoGo is meant to have passing, and passing downfield. We didn't try very much. You would think with the run game clicking, they would have?
I understand where the sentiment is. I really do. I think Doug has a bigger arm and is more of a running threat but he's worse in both option and RPO reads and doesn't have the touch or throw nearly as catchable a ball as JM. Tape doesn't like and 3 years of tape with DB has shown except for a 5 week period last year that he isn't as accurate.
For most players, there is a next man up reality to the game--and there will be players who lose their position due to injury, but many of those are given a shot to get their jobs back. Especially with the role Doug has played in the program the last year, I think getting him killed with bad OLine play and then taking his job away without him having a shot to lose it on the field just rubs me the wrong way. If you are just going to ride the hot hand what do you do when they have enough tape on Maiava to start taking away the things he does well and he hits that freshman wall that nearly all freshman at QB do.
Doug's family might not be influential, we might want to recruit Gardena hard, but they don't need to be influential to be used as a negative influence.
There are always going to be kids that feel aggrieved by the realities of college athletics, but there are very few examples of someone of Doug's importance to the program get the shaft this soon. Loyalty is pretty important to me, and Odom talked about how important it was to him--and in the face of that making this switch in this way feels a little slimy.
I don't think the last sentence is entirely correct. Last season, DB had a 64.6% completion percentage, and threw for just under 1900 yards with 10 TD's and 5 INT's, for a 136.4 rating (per ESPN). He also rushed for 261 yards and 6 TD's last season, which isn't too great, but isn't terrible either.
I think he has the abilities to be a really solid QB personally, but so far this year, based on matchups, injuries, and game situations, he hasn't put up very good numbers. Maiava had one good game vs. Vandy after Brum got injured. Last game @UTEP, Maiava threw for 190 yards and a 55% completion % with 0 TD's and 1 pick. Not too great. It was probably due to the effectiveness of our running game, similar to Brum's first game vs. Bryant.
You can throw out the Michigan game IMO. So other than the Vandy game, it's a relatively close battle at QB. If DB is healthy and shows that he has the confidence and abilities to lead the team in practice, and then it conveys back to the games, then you probably roll with him. But if he isn't picking up the offense, or is somehow lacking confidence in games or practices, you probably need to go with Maiava, IMO.
I agree with everything youre saying again lol. The most current example that I can think of is UVA's veteran qb getting hurt and their freshman qb making amazing plays and getting the fanbase excited (although theyve lost every game I think). Now the veteran QB is healthy enough to play and theyre going back to him and the entire fanbase and media is bashing the head coach.
If Coach Odom/Marion go back to DB, there will be similar backlash and probably even worse. Its because we have been winning. I know that coaches dont coach to satisfy fans, but at this moment, Odom is literally asking fans to come out to support and it seems like almost all fans want to see Maiava and are riding the hype train right now. Take him out and the product wont have as much appeal.
No disagreement with what you're saying here. The stats arent terrible, but in my eyes, he doesnt have the it factor. He was late in finding Ricky White. Then Maiava comes in and finds him. If Doug played the whole Vandy game, would we have won? I personally dont think so.
Its a tough situation overall. Maiava is hot right now; he isnt the reason why we are winning, but hes a part of it by default because he is the quarterback. Obviously hes made dumb mistakes and there will be more moments where you scratch your head but a win is a win. Lets see how this weekend goes; I think Maiava will start and I think this is his chance to really show what hes got as a thrower. The Hawaii defense is terrible.
yeah, it's a tough call, depending on DB's health. As you said, Hawaii's defense is bad, so chances are, both of them would perform well given the opportunity. Maybe the same thing next game vs. UNR.
I'll just sit back and root for whichever of the fellas that coach puts in. This is a big game for us to get to 4 wins.
Doug had an absolute stinker last year against SJSU. Underwhelmed at Cal, though a bad call cost us that game.
He also wasn't quite the same after being injured.
I get the frustration of fans to the fact that he has an extensive injury history. But you can't make decisions based off of what might happen. If he is healthy, fully cleared and performing well, you play him if he is the best option.
Also all of our QBs struggled with consistency last year. Doug had flashed before last season a good amount, Bailey was successful with his time at Tennessee, Even Friel was FOY. Some pretty highly rated prospects all struggled to move the ball, with 3 really good receivers and a good RB. I put a lot of blame on the offensive scheme last year. We had a new OC with heavy NFL influence. Everyone seemed confused, I just don't think it was a good fit for our personnel or even college in general.
This system is supposed to be easier to learn, easier to run, creating easier/quicker reads for the QB.
Doug is a good runner with a big arm. Quick reads have been a weakness, relying on extending plays and going off schedule in the past for success.
I'll say it again, we haven't seen him with a true opportunity to play in the offense as it is designed. For me I want to see how well he can make those reads to see if things are figured out. Though he actually looked pretty good with the short passes thus far, which is encouraging. This offense seems to be perfect to use Doug's strengths and hide his weaknesses. That's why he was re-recruited to come back. That's why he won the starting job, and by all reports he was heads and shoulders above everyone else in practice and in camp. So much, that the sentiment is that we could be screwed if he goes down.
That's why I think he gets his job back if healthy.
He also wasn't quite the same after being injured.
I get the frustration of fans to the fact that he has an extensive injury history. But you can't make decisions based off of what might happen. If he is healthy, fully cleared and performing well, you play him if he is the best option.
Also all of our QBs struggled with consistency last year. Doug had flashed before last season a good amount, Bailey was successful with his time at Tennessee, Even Friel was FOY. Some pretty highly rated prospects all struggled to move the ball, with 3 really good receivers and a good RB. I put a lot of blame on the offensive scheme last year. We had a new OC with heavy NFL influence. Everyone seemed confused, I just don't think it was a good fit for our personnel or even college in general.
This system is supposed to be easier to learn, easier to run, creating easier/quicker reads for the QB.
Doug is a good runner with a big arm. Quick reads have been a weakness, relying on extending plays and going off schedule in the past for success.
I'll say it again, we haven't seen him with a true opportunity to play in the offense as it is designed. For me I want to see how well he can make those reads to see if things are figured out. Though he actually looked pretty good with the short passes thus far, which is encouraging. This offense seems to be perfect to use Doug's strengths and hide his weaknesses. That's why he was re-recruited to come back. That's why he won the starting job, and by all reports he was heads and shoulders above everyone else in practice and in camp. So much, that the sentiment is that we could be screwed if he goes down.
That's why I think he gets his job back if healthy.
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DougieB has his warts. But if your goal for this offense is come out and run as a 50 times a game offense through a stable of solid and different backs you need a QB who is a homerun rushing threat. If you guys remember against Howard, this offense KILLED us with a really athletic QB and huge holes. But, Doug I think decides his option before the snap because he's a little slow to read the key on the mesh point and weird counter RPO stuff in the moment. He does leave a lot of yards on the field by from poor option reads.
But he has electric acceleration and if you can get him a hole he's an legitimate home run rushing threat and he's got a + arm, just doesn't throw a good spiral. Wobbly balls are tough to catch--especially if you're running your offense left handed and guys are having work on all their stuff backwards.
I think a Doug Brumfield probably has a higher ceiling, and I think Maiava's skill set if you can reign in the freshman mistake throws (that every freshman QB has made) gives you a better chance to win game in and game out.
Brum coming back too early will only magnify his weaknesses. If there is question at all physically about him, dont expose him to the criticisms. Something about Doug's mechanics changed and so is his mental acuity. Just let him take a breather. When he is ready give him a chance at the chair. He is loyal and he deserve a chance, IMO.
Seriously, it's crazy how people jumped ship so quick. He's the reason why we have this team because half of them would've transferred had he. Let him prove himself. Giving up on such a high-ceiling player is foolish. We know we got JM if anything. Don't panic. If we have Doug performing to the best of his abilities, we are a force to be reckoned with even moreso than now.
Kids are so much stress these days. Athletes especially are under tremendous stress. Expectations have to feels like a whole building on their shoulder when you are a starter at a DI program. Growth latency is not an option. You have to perfect all the time or lose it?
I'm pleased we have a quarterback controversy. Usually, at this time in the season, nobody cares about the QB and all we want is the coaches head.
Half the team would have left? That's dramatic...who are the 40/50 players that would have left?
Plus No one that left is doing well except 1 player. If they wanted to leave, they could have and Odom would have brought more transfers in.
In terms of jumping ship, I think it's more of a "yes I like Brumfield" or "no I would rather have someone else." It seems like there's two complete opposites sides. I've seen people that are die hard Doug fans and I've seen people that are die hard Maiava fans. Each is fine. Just stating what Ive seen. Those that aren't fond of Doug will never want him to start again lol.
All in all, sometimes it doesn't even matter who the "better" quarterback is. Win and everything is okay. Manage the game and don't throw it away and everything is okay. That's why I believe Maiava is the fan favorite rn. But no one can deny that he has flashed.
My take on Doug. Most recent comparisons to his skill set is somewhere between Armani and Caleb.
Armani more dynamic a runner than Doug. Doug a better runner than Caleb. Caleb (once he figured it out his senior year) was the best decision maker of the three. For all his warts Doug was a pretty accurate passer last year (64%). Granted, he's better on underneath stuff. Seems to struggle on mid range throws. Throws a decent deep ball if he has time.
He's not devoid of talent by any stretch. Problem for me has been decision making (Four of his six picks last year were in the red zone) and might have cost the Rebs two potential wins and a bowl bid. The other issue has been consistent play. He plays a good game and follows it with a poor showing. Not all on his shoulders, shaky Oline play last year was part of it. Receivers dropping passes didn't help. There were a fair number of drops last year.
It's the old cliche with Doug/Maiava. Higher ceiling probably Doug. Higher floor probably Maiava.
Battle of what could be vs what is..
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I do think many of these run plays are not read options at all. Or they are not coached to be. I think they are designed to look like Read options to freeze defensive ends, but I think they are just called, traditional run plays.
There isn't a hesitation with the exchange. QB's may be looking at the end, but not reacting to it.
You are probably right that our guys do struggle with making the right read at times, because we have run some. But I think many of our QB run plays are just called QB runs with misdirection also.
I think this because of the pause and hesitation we see when it is an obvious RO or RPO. Nothing to back this up other than personal opinion.
This would make sense based on what I'm seeing on rewatched film, just as much as Dougie and JM prenap reads and just going with that. I know that GoGo relies a lot on reading the mismatches before the snap. However, generally it's the hesitation at the mesh point that holds the DE from washing down, especially on film when you get that weakside DE not respecting the mesh and crashing down. If it was a fake option to freeze the backside pursuit, shouldn't we have a hesitation as part of the play fake? Coaching it pre-snap reads makes more sense to me. It explains why we miss so many and there is no hesitation on the mesh point. I just can't believe that 90% of your read action game is actually just delay counters.
Doug has issues making the quick hot read. Its why he takes so many hits and why our 3rd down % struggled. If he makes the play call for the 3rd down, its usually to a screen or a short dump off. From what Ive seen with Maiava, he makes the hot throw as the blitz is coming and gets the ball to the receiver thats in the right matchup. He pinpointed a few of these last week vs UTEP. His timing on a few were off and dropped by the receivers, but overall, he seems to understand that you cant make a 3rd down conversion if you're trying to tuck and run on a blitz up the middle or dumping it short of the sticks.
Coaches get paid big money for one thing. Win games. No position is guaranteed. This is how it works with big time college football. It's not personal. DB is a great kid. But up to this point Maiva has proved he's our best shot at winning games.And that is the bottom line, not how bad a certain player may feel by losing his spot. Nobody gives a crap if the backup DE ends up starting over the 1 at that spot during the season, that's football.
That said, Maiva is a true FR. He will have spots and games where he looks as such. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a 2 QB system and rolling with whatever is working. DB could absolutely win his position back. If the kid who loses his job sulks, next man up and best of luck in the transfer portal.
That said, Maiva is a true FR. He will have spots and games where he looks as such. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a 2 QB system and rolling with whatever is working. DB could absolutely win his position back. If the kid who loses his job sulks, next man up and best of luck in the transfer portal.
If we are fairly comparing both and discussing decision making, it should be noted Maiava had a bad interception vs Vandy. Another one vs UTEP and almost a 2nd vs UTEP. Both instances vs UTEP the play was dead receiver was covered. Ball should have been thrown in the dirt but he tried to squeeze it in anyway.
Yeah that dump off vs UTEP straight to the UTEP guy on the roll out was bad.. but the one vs Vandy I understand, he got baited by a much more experienced linebacker into a read at the line that wasn't correct once the ball was snapped. He is a redshirt freshman and experience will help some of those dumb "rookie" mistakes.
I personally need to see more of Doug in this system to know for sure that Maiava has "proved to be our best shot at winning games". Again, I happily defer to the staff on making that decision, at least right now.
I won't blindly do so regardless of what happens, but 100% I do right now.
If Doug gets the keys again it will be for good reasons, and if he does get the call again, I expect him to do good things, and look better than he has so far this year.
For health reasons, we may not know until after the bye week.
