Masked_rebel said:

But I'm not talking a huge gap. Im talking about the new Monopolization of Power amongst the P4s who now have consolidated into an even tighter group of competing powers. They've essentially created a secondary tier competitively between them and the G5s. If I'm a TV executive moving forward into that new reality that they've negotiated with those 4 conferences, why would I throw more money at these smaller programs/markets? Might it be a small increase than currently, maybe, but again, G5s have essentially become more competitive versions of FCS schools compared to the Big 4 and I expect future TV negotiations to reflect that current difference between what are G5 contracts and the FCS conferences and their media deals. That's why ultimately unless there is some sort of NCAA governance change, the P4s will become their own division of NCAA or their own league entirely, and everyone else will once gain fall into a subdivision category. The Pac-12s break up isnt an opportunity to reform a slimmer but more competitive league with more dollars because it gets viewed on the same competitive level as the P4, it was the death of a really true NCAA D1 and the first step towards the creation of a league of their own.

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I agree 100% I think we are talking about 2 separate things here.
The Pac 8 would be on the outside looking in.
Since there is such a huge gap and you practically relegated to a lower division, to me that makes more sense to try to maximize revenue but cutting out the market fat. Which is what this is proposing.

Couev said:

That PAC8 would be a pretty solid league.

But 8 teams means no football championship game, and no championship game means you're going to get less money.

You have to have 12 teams if you want a title game.

Ideally the ACC explodes. You add Cal and Stanford + two other teams looking to move up, but if you want to dip into Texas, you'll almost have to go at last 14 teams to give them some regional travel partners. SMU and UTSA means that New Mexico and Tulane or Utah State make a lot of sense for travel partners.

Gun to my head, I think the 16 team WAC with rotating 4 team blocks was the most elegant way to handle a lot of these things--just too far ahead of its time.

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2 years ago they changed that rule of requiring 12 teams for a championship game. I references that above. They did that for the big 12 when it got down to 10 teams. There is no minimum requirement anymore.

TimothyC3 said:

Right now I feel anything is possible. Because 3 years ago who would have anticipated the blow up of the PAC 12? Right now the ACC could lose 7 schools. That would bring their numbers to 10. I could foresee a ACC PAC alliance in some form where the conference champions play each other for an automatic bid in football to the playoffs.

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So much in this thread. Couple of my thoughts, then off to bed.

Media rights - Agree that any deal will be far, far less than what WSU is used to, but that is just reality. No point in looking back or comparing. Any deal would be better than the basically $-0- the Pac-2 is looking at in FY 24 and probably FY25 if we renew. I kind of question that 9/1/24 2nd year renewal deadline. We looked at that language a while back, and I was confused. May find and read through it again.

Our 2-year grace period as a conference ends 6/30/26. At this point, all that may matter is the subsequent loss of the $30M in NCAA BB $ if we cease to exist. But that is $15M each for WSU and OSU. Not chump change. We are basically independents now. for all other purposes.

A PacMtn-14 media deal - so what's to stop the league from structuring a deal where the upper half gets all the desirable games, and relegate the "no-eyeballs or interest" schools to the poop schedule? That's more or less what we had in the Pac-12. USC, etc in primetime on the big networks, WSU playing at 7PM on the Pac-12 network. Not always but to some extent. Not sure how that would work financially among the schools.

So much more, but I stick to the notion of a Pac-8 being stupid. And what about the MW's NCAA 6=year allocations? they stay with the remaining teams like ours did? How much is that? And all the poaching penalty money? Shit the bottom feeders probably are hoping a handful of you bail.

I will continue to say, our best bet at keeping sports relevant isn't jumping to a compact Pac 8 or sticking to the MWC +2, but continuing to excel at football and inviting Big 12 to constantly hold events in our buildings and city...

XFactorRebel said:

So who do we need to stuff in the trunk of a car OG Vegas style to have that happen again?

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LOL incredible that actually happened

TimothyC3 said:

Right now I feel anything is possible. Because 3 years ago who would have anticipated the blow up of the PAC 12? Right now the ACC could lose 7 schools. That would bring their numbers to 10. I could foresee a ACC PAC alliance in some form where the conference champions play each other for an automatic bid in football to the playoffs.

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I have also noticed that UNLV is out recruiting all of the MWC and many of the teams in the Big 12 conference. Currently UNLV is even with Kansas State and 247 still has Parker Meese with a zero rating while my expectation is he will end up as either a high 3 star or even a 4* ranked recruit.

rebneck said:

Reno has the most commits but falls into the bottom half of that list, as only 2 are 3-star. Looks like Choate needs numbers and he'll see if he can develop them later.

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The only thing better than reno at the bottom is the fact byu is also behind UNLV in recruiting!

rebneck said:

Reno has the most commits but falls into the bottom half of that list, as only 2 are 3-star. Looks like Choate needs numbers and he'll see if he can develop them later.

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I'm sorry but it's Chode not Choate..

Check out "Liberty" in Conference USA.

Boston Rebel 2 said:

Odom is killing it so far that's for sure.

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The rankings is without Parker Meese involvement. The dude ranked as high a 4 stars at IMG Academy but ranked O now. Even with 9 players and ranked 1st , Odom's recruiting class is not reflective of it true strengths.. I am good with that

unlove said:

To put a bow on this thread, I bought my season tickets today. Sure hope the team surprises me.
…but I’m f’n amped for football season!!! 🏈

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Let's talk about that game against Seton Hall during our NIT tournament. UNLV did managed to win two games against teams that are supposedly ranked higher. UNLV was unranked while getting in. UNLV beat Princeton and BC. But then got thrashed by Seton Hall. Look at that Seton Hall team make up. Most of them New Yorkers plays in NY. They won the tournament. That is just psychologically. Physically, those guys looks like they are matured while UNLV played with a pump freshman PG who was supposed to be a HS senior. That is all I can muster to support CKK.

Odom is killing it so far that's for sure.

Right now I feel anything is possible. Because 3 years ago who would have anticipated the blow up of the PAC 12? Right now the ACC could lose 7 schools. That would bring their numbers to 10. I could foresee a ACC PAC alliance in some form where the conference champions play each other for an automatic bid in football to the playoffs.

September 1st will give us what we need to know about whether there will be a second year of the Scheduling Agreement. If it isn't extended for that second year then this board will go wild in speculation. I'm hoping it doesn't get signed and extended.

That PAC8 would be a pretty solid league.

But 8 teams means no football championship game, and no championship game means you're going to get less money.

You have to have 12 teams if you want a title game.

Ideally the ACC explodes. You add Cal and Stanford + two other teams looking to move up, but if you want to dip into Texas, you'll almost have to go at last 14 teams to give them some regional travel partners. SMU and UTSA means that New Mexico and Tulane or Utah State make a lot of sense for travel partners.

Gun to my head, I think the 16 team WAC with rotating 4 team blocks was the most elegant way to handle a lot of these things--just too far ahead of its time.

dcut03 said:

We were on the cusp of being a quad 1 road team (for opponents) last season, but otherwise quad 2 pretty firmly.
Being a quad 1 neutral site team is probably what is necessary to be a at large candidate. Or at least close to it.

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I always look at the neutral ranking when I'm figuring the quads in my head.

dcut03 said:

There is a HUGE, HUGE gap here. Are the PAC 2 worth 50-80 mil per year? Or the 30 that the Big 12 might be starting with Absolutely not.

But that doesn't mean they aren't worth more than 5 per year. With the rest of the previous Pac 12, they turned down a 30 mil per team contract. Now that is a mean between all of the schools, but I doubt the dragged down the rest of the members THAT much.

They are established, big state schools in not the tiniest states. That have decent histories and fan bases.

Not being a power conference do drops things significantly, but even with that, 10 mil per school sounds about right to me.

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But I'm not talking a huge gap. Im talking about the new Monopolization of Power amongst the P4s who now have consolidated into an even tighter group of competing powers. They've essentially created a secondary tier competitively between them and the G5s. If I'm a TV executive moving forward into that new reality that they've negotiated with those 4 conferences, why would I throw more money at these smaller programs/markets? Might it be a small increase than currently, maybe, but again, G5s have essentially become more competitive versions of FCS schools compared to the Big 4 and I expect future TV negotiations to reflect that current difference between what are G5 contracts and the FCS conferences and their media deals. That's why ultimately unless there is some sort of NCAA governance change, the P4s will become their own division of NCAA or their own league entirely, and everyone else will once gain fall into a subdivision category. The Pac-12s break up isnt an opportunity to reform a slimmer but more competitive league with more dollars because it gets viewed on the same competitive level as the P4, it was the death of a really true NCAA D1 and the first step towards the creation of a league of their own.

To put a bow on this thread, I bought my season tickets today. Sure hope the team surprises me.
…but I’m f’n amped for football season!!! 🏈

Love the insight on this you fellas are bringing to the board. End of the day UNLV needs to continue its football momentum and opportunities will only grow.

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Masked_rebel said:

But why... Just speaking in pure terms of markets and schools, unless in the next 2 years the G5s get competitive in both major sports and turn their invite into the Playoff something other than just getting thumped by a Top 10 team. If youre a TV executive, why shell out for the lower tier conferences that dont exactly have premium markets and who arent competitive vs the larger P4 schools. The closest comparison might be tv contracts for FBS vs G5s.
If there was really that much interest for the TV/alumni markets that WSU and OSU have, then they would've been included in Big 10 or Big 12 expansion and left behind by their bigger cohorts. I know thatll hurt our WSU friend to hear, but this is what makes the expansion conversation into a slimmer version of the MWC not exactly much better than say incorporating those 2 programs and adding to get to say 16 teams where your conference is a de-facto Div 1-B on its own...

Click to expand...

There is a HUGE, HUGE gap here. Are the PAC 2 worth 50-80 mil per year? Or the 30 that the Big 12 might be starting with Absolutely not.

But that doesn't mean they aren't worth more than 5 per year. With the rest of the previous Pac 12, they turned down a 30 mil per team contract. Now that is a mean between all of the schools, but I doubt the dragged down the rest of the members THAT much.

They are established, big state schools in not the tiniest states. That have decent histories and fan bases.

Not being a power conference do drops things significantly, but even with that, 10 mil per school sounds about right to me.

dcut03 said:

Our current contract (besides Boise and Hawaii) pays a little over 3 mil per year, and that was updated in 2019.

Report: Mountain West strikes TV deal with Fox; payouts to increase $2 million annually

The Mountain West is moving from ESPN to Fox Sports in a deal that will increase the payout per school by about $2 million annually. Sports Business Daily broke the news Monday, reporting the conference has reached an agreement with Fox Sports and CBS Sports Network, which renewed its package of...

nevadasportsnet.com

The new Pac 8 being worth 10? I can certainly see that.

Click to expand...

But why... Just speaking in pure terms of markets and schools, unless in the next 2 years the G5s get competitive in both major sports and turn their invite into the Playoff something other than just getting thumped by a Top 10 team. If youre a TV executive, why shell out for the lower tier conferences that dont exactly have premium markets and who arent competitive vs the larger P4 schools. The closest comparison might be tv contracts for FBS vs G5s.
If there was really that much interest for the TV/alumni markets that WSU and OSU have, then they would've been included in Big 10 or Big 12 expansion and left behind by their bigger cohorts. I know thatll hurt our WSU friend to hear, but this is what makes the expansion conversation into a slimmer version of the MWC not exactly much better than say incorporating those 2 programs and adding to get to say 16 teams where your conference is a de-facto Div 1-B on its own...

Meister_Rebel said:

Is there a copy of the media contract / MWC contract out there that we can see? I don't recall knowing about a reduction in the exit fees while the media contract is still in effect. I think that is what you are saying? The last year of the media contract gives us an exit fee of $5.5 million is what you are saying? So, somehow they eliminate the last year (3 x revenue) exit fee?

You could be right but that is new to me.

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Our current contract (besides Boise and Hawaii) pays a little over 3 mil per year, and that was updated in 2019.


* *Edit: the Deseret news said the value was closer to 4 mil, but that could be including the PAC games**

• The Mountain West’s current media contract with Fox and CBS, which runs until 2026, pays out $4 million per school per year. That number is clearly not satisfactory for league members going forward.

I don't know the language, but the basic worth.

The value basically increased from the PAC guaranteed games to much more than that. But that is temporary, If we started in the New Pac 8 in 2026 we would not be on the hook for that unless there was another contract. Also the current MW deal would be over as well, so the MW has very little leverage.
I am guessing that the 5.5 mil may be a standard exit fee that would be addition to any left over TV contract funds. Not sure on that, but base on that article I can see that being the case. It is very possible there would be NO fees without a contract.

Add WAZZU and OSU to the current MW, how much is that contract worth? 5 mil per school? It would go up, and there may be generally increased value for college contracts these days vs 5 years ago, but I doubt it gets above 5 mil per school.

The new Pac 8 being worth 10? I can certainly see that.

dcut03 said:

The fees are based off a contract. We don't have a new contract.
They have established fees to try to protect from teams bailing, but it isn't airtight.
The fee kicks in if the Pac-12 “makes an invitation to join the conference and the school accepts before the two-year anniversary of the contract’s initial term expiration date of Aug. 1, 2025.” The withdrawal fee begins at $10M for the first school and “rises by $500,000 for each school beyond that.”
No mention of a fee after 8/2/25. Without the new contract, the MW only has the remaining year of their contract as leverage.
Re-upping for the second year of the agreement seems like an easy move to make, if they want to reduce the fees. Though I can see them biting the bullet and paying fees up front, because they are getting competitively screwed in these 2 years. No NCAAT auto birth, and a VERY tough road to the college playoff. The end of that 2 year agreement end at the end of the 25-26 season.
The departing schools have to stall contract negotiations for another 14 months. Not hard to do, the PAC 12 schools did that very easily. Especially when the departing schools are in the markets with the most clout.
After August the language sure sounds like the big exit fees are completely gone. the 5.5 mil fee makes sense at that point that the article referenced that sounded like a standard fee and would be about the same as one year of the contract money.
If we announce in that window August 2 2025, then it sure looks like the new PAC 8 could start in 2026.
The SDUS 17.5 mil fee was based off the remaining contract. It would have been half if they tried to stay in the MW for an additional year.

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Is there a copy of the media contract / MWC contract out there that we can see? I don't recall knowing about a reduction in the exit fees while the media contract is still in effect. I think that is what you are saying? The last year of the media contract gives us an exit fee of $5.5 million is what you are saying? So, somehow they eliminate the last year (3 x revenue) exit fee?

You could be right but that is new to me.