Team success isn’t as important as individual, I guess.
Good luck playing with Tillis and Martinez next season.
Good luck playing with Tillis and Martinez next season.
Player in the transfer portal
- Thread starter bcvegaspt
- Start date
I'm not seeing anything on Twitter so BC must have some inside info he's being intentionally vague about.
One is at Iowa State, one's at UC Irvine. I assumed it was a reference made to all of Otzelberger's guys being gone... but the only Otz guys left are getting substantial minutes, I think
Until the player makes it public, I’m going to remain vague. I’m not a “me first” type to take the glory from someone. It is someone not receiving a lion’s share of minutes.
@LocoRebel, Tillis is at Irvine, Martinez is somewhere in CA. You’re thinking of the 2-guard who burned bridges here on his way out.
It’ll keep happening …. No team immune.
The one that aggravated me the most was that Kendall Smith kid. And then he stormed off to Northridge with a professionally cut video of his return … like he was something special. He was a very mediocre player who didn’t earn his minutes here. Funny enough, had he had a morsel of patience, his minutes would have gone way up. I believe he announced he was leaving a couple of days before Rashad screwed up his knee.
There’s just such a high level of entitlement and low level of self recognition.
I’m taking a stab at it being Hall. Attitude plus cryptic tweets.
The small point guard has been getting decent minutes. Nowell or Hall I would think.
Might not be a bad guess--I kind of get the kid's beef though. He's getting no minutes and Parquet gets hurt so you figure, now is my chance to get some run. Only he continues to get no minutes--finally you give him some run against Southern Miss and he basically makes one freshman mistake and he gets the hook for the rest of the game after 4 minutes. So, basically you're not going to get minutes now, and when Parquet comes back you're definitely not going to get minutes.
I feel like in the modern game you have to give these 9-10 guys you're hoping to develop meaningful burn in some games if you're planning on retaining them. Otherwise, why even hand out that ride?
I feel like in the modern game you have to give these 9-10 guys you're hoping to develop meaningful burn in some games if you're planning on retaining them. Otherwise, why even hand out that ride?
Unfortunate if it is Hall. Defense was a zoo when he was in there. 4 on 5 and he needed to see on film what he did wrong. Kid can shoot and drive on the turn around etc. Defense is the key in league play so he has to learn rotations in practice. You could say that about everyone that doesn't get minutes.
I'll be disappointed if it's Hall. I know defense wasn't his strong point and if you play for CKK you're going to play defense. Would've liked to have seen him get some meaningful minutes and maybe light a fire under him to work on his defense but then again I'd love to have a player who takes the initiative to improve on his own. Those are the truly special ones.
If he is not willing to earn his minutes, it’s better for who ever the player might be and the program to move on IMO.
When “Big Guard” Hall committed he mentioned something about choosing UNLV for impactful playing time. I was like, huh!? Thankfully we don’t need him to play yet.
Any word on Nowell and why he never plays? I would imagine it is attitude over ability.
I’d be disappointed to see Hall leave. If he does I hope he’s the only one.
Would love to see all the guys with eligibility back.
Would love to see all the guys with eligibility back.
I’ve been told that it’s “99% certain.” This is why we haven’t heard an announcement yet.
The only 4 star to pan out was Chris Wood and he took years to mature.
Good luck to Hot Plate Hall. It was nice knowing ya.
Good luck to Hot Plate Hall. It was nice knowing ya.
Again, I'm not confirming that it's any particular player, just the reason that it hasn't been announced or come to 100% fruition yet.
Crazy, was wondering about this kid Hall not too long ago. While following his recruitment he didn't come across as somebody who would be content or do well with diminished playing time. I was hopeful the success he had versus Life Pacific would keep him engaged long-term and maybe we see growth similar to our center David M.
He struck me as a player who was very concerned with the offensive end and not so much on the defensive side. Not the type of player who would be happy here long-term.
Minutes almost always help with a players growth and development. Muoka last year appeared in all 32 games and averaged around 13 minutes per game (8th on the team). His minutes were probably more than the staff originally intended with the Iwuaokor injury situation being more debilitating than we thought it was going to be. Early in the season Muoka was as bad as any big man I'd ever seen at UNLV. The only things he was above average at was help defending and running the floor. He got destroyed when asked to guard other bigs in the post, his pick and roll switching was almost always late, he boxed out and rebounded poorly and had essentially no post moves at all, and couldn't do anything facing the basket. I would have traded him straight up for Freddie Haygood.
But as he got minutes, he got better. He didn't have a quick hook on him despite at times atrocious play and was allowed to make mistakes on the court and get better. Maybe because we had nobody to play behind him, I don't know.
But Muoka is a perfect example of how a player can grow and practice better when they get run in actual games. By the end of the year, Muoka was pretty damn serviceable.
Keyshawn Hall has appeared in 5 of twelve games and has 45 minutes total at this point in the season. His defense is really not good and even in games where we had the space to give him some run he either never got out of his warm up jersey or got a hook at the first boneheaded freshman play. However, he has some offensive talent. He's hit open 3s, he's penetrate and got to the rim. There's some raw offensive talent there, but Kruger is going with a 9 deep model and Key is your 10th man. I have no issue with that in general--Tark used that many seasons with great success, but I don't think the game was the same then with the way transfer portals and Prop48 redshirts, and the modern transfer portal/AAU mentality.
I wanted to go back and compare him historically with other freshmen, but his lack of minutes make it tough to look at anything and be honest statistically apart from raw playing time. Right now Keyshawn is in the same neighborhood as other freshman scholarship players in terms of minutes as Jerome Johnson, Beas Hamga, Troy Cage, DeShawn Mitchell, Karam Mashour, DaQuan Cook, Demetris Morant, Dantley Walker, and Djordjije Sljivancanin, I've been watching hoops for a long time, and while some of those guys were better athletes than Hall, they're all generally what I'd call 'stiffs'. I think Hall has more potential than any of them. Hell, the list of freshman that got a lot more run than Hall and were clearly worse is pretty long too. Troy Baxter, Zion Morgan, and Trey Woodbury jump right to the front of my mind for some reason, but I'm sure there's more.
Sometimes kids just need minutes develop and stay motivated, and Key's minutes are only going to get more infrequent as we go into a much tougher conference slate of games and Parquet gets back from injury. I don't think he's going to get them here. I think that's an issue especially if you lose all the guys you should lose next year--Harkless, Parquet, Webster, LuRod, McCabe, Muoka, are all most likely gone next year, and likely Iwuakor though with the covid redshirt you might get one or two of them back. That's a lot of minutes (about 2/3rds) to have to replace again in the transfer market.
I’m not saying this because I know, just what I infer. Muoka didn’t have an attitude. If coaches see the work being put in in practice and the willingness to learn and be coached they will give more leeway with in game time. Might be different with Hall. He might not be earning the time in practice. Again, I don’t know for sure but I am a strong believer in Kevin’s philosophies and judgement. The way this team plays for him is a testament to his coaching ability. They bought in. Gilbert is another good example. Gilbert got tons of minutes, maybe even at times when he shouldn’t have because last year he could not get the ball in the hoop. But he played his ass off and from everything we had heard, he did/does the same in practice. Hall just doesn’t strike me as having the same character. If that’s the case then I have no issue with the lack of minutes.
P.S we do get LuRod back if I’m not mistaken. I think he’s a junior, so we may have him for 2 more if covid year applies to him? … just checked, senior. 1 more year with covid.
As to the first part, it's difficult to argue unsubstantiated conjecture. I am not close enough to the program to say that the kid has an attitude issue or hasn't bought in. I haven't been to any practices or have any insider information. All I can speak on is what I've seen on the court. I think defensively he's had issues fitting into the philosophy and especially switching on the pick and roll and having to defend the ball handler. He's a little later on closeouts than some. I understand why in tight games he doesn't get burn. I'm not saying he deserves 20 minutes a game, but if you have a freshman you're looking to develop getting in 80% of your games and trying to get him 10 minutes a game in those is pretty important.
But you went right after the kid's character with no evidence. Nice.
Let's say he's meant to be an end of the bench guy, then either the staff didn't get to know him properly to buy into his role before the season which is a recruiting error, he hasn't developed like you thought which can be an attitude or developmental error. Does the staff take any accountability in those games where we struggled against poor opponents in the first half (High Point, Southern Illinois) or fail to step on the throats of bad teams when we're up big in the first half (San Diego +4 in the 2nd half, Hawai'i + 4 in the 2nd half, Minnesota +5 in the 2nd half) to get those end of bench guys minutes?
Muoka might have had a better attitude--but he was god awful. But guys that get minutes when it matters tend to get better. Guys that get minutes tend to have a better attitude especially when they don't get the quick hook after one mistake.
LuRod is a senior who is using his Covid-Shirt year this year. He won't be back. Same with Parquet, Harkless, and McCabe. Iwuakor, Webster, and Muoka can still opt in for the Covid-Shirt next year
If it does happen to be Hall, it is a story that we've seen 1000x's before.
He was looking at an uphill battle from the jump. We have a team full of established, grown ass men with signficantly more experience.
The one thing he had to offer was some decent offensive game, but between Harkless, Giblert, and even LuRod he wasn't an upgrade on that side on the floor, and definitely a downgrade defensively.
Many kids come in thinking they will dominate, if not all. It is part of the culture these days with every D1 potential athlete being told that they are the best thing since sliced bread in HS. They don't realize how tough it is in college.
I don't know if any of you have watched Last Chance U, but you see this a a common theme, even at the JC level.
I think all players get some level of humble pie and not all handle it well. Some get it at their first school. Some get it after transferring, some never get it.
I like Hall's potential. If could see the forest through the trees, he could see that there is opportunity with how upper classmen heavy we are.
He was looking at an uphill battle from the jump. We have a team full of established, grown ass men with signficantly more experience.
The one thing he had to offer was some decent offensive game, but between Harkless, Giblert, and even LuRod he wasn't an upgrade on that side on the floor, and definitely a downgrade defensively.
Many kids come in thinking they will dominate, if not all. It is part of the culture these days with every D1 potential athlete being told that they are the best thing since sliced bread in HS. They don't realize how tough it is in college.
I don't know if any of you have watched Last Chance U, but you see this a a common theme, even at the JC level.
I think all players get some level of humble pie and not all handle it well. Some get it at their first school. Some get it after transferring, some never get it.
I like Hall's potential. If could see the forest through the trees, he could see that there is opportunity with how upper classmen heavy we are.
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Oof. Maybe I came off abrasive to you with my response. If I did then I apologize. But as I stated multiple times I really don’t know. Not saying that is the issue because like yourself, I am not on the inside.
But maybe I should elaborate since you seem that I am attacking his character blindly. I’ll be clear in that I am rooting for Hall and have been. Quite frankly, the other day he got a few minutes and although he was not great I felt he came in and did his job holding down the center to give a breather to the other guys. It depends how we want to define evidence, but I do pay close attention to body language. It’s just something I enjoy watching. I like observing interactions with the coaches as the players come off the floor. You’ll notice guys like Gilbert and Rodriguez especially, come off the court no matter how frustrated they are with the reason for being pulled and have a positive response as the coaches talk to them. I don’t have a PhD in psychology, just something I tend to watch for. Again, nothing is for sure and I am wrong about a lot of things. Hall is different with these interactions. He just is. I can also pull up tweets from him. The state of his attitude does not seem to be like the others on the team. But once again, who really knows right? Only the people on the inside. It’s only a theory. And if I he does so happen to have a poor attitude I am going to root for him anyways, guys come around. He’s young.
Also… check again on Rodriguez. He used medical redshirt
so he does have 1 more year of eligibility if he chooses to use it.
I must have come across as snarkier than I intended. So apologies from me as well.Oof. Maybe I came off abrasive to you with my response. If I did then I apologize. But as I stated multiple times I really don’t know. Not saying that is the issue because like yourself, I am not on the inside.
But maybe I should elaborate since you seem that I am attacking his character blindly. I’ll be clear in that I am rooting for Hall and have been. Quite frankly, the other day he got a few minutes and although he was not great I felt he came in and did his job holding down the center to give a breather to the other guys. It depends how we want to define evidence, but I do pay close attention to body language. It’s just something I enjoy watching. I like observing interactions with the coaches as the players come off the floor. You’ll notice guys like Gilbert and Rodriguez especially, come off the court no matter how frustrated they are with the reason for being pulled and have a positive response as the coaches talk to them. I don’t have a PhD in psychology, just something I tend to watch for. Again, nothing is for sure and I am wrong about a lot of things. Hall is different with these interactions. He just is. I can also pull up tweets from him. The state of his attitude does not seem to be like the others on the team. But once again, who really knows right? Only the people on the inside. It’s only a theory. And if I he does so happen to have a poor attitude I am going to root for him anyways, guys come around. He’s young.
Also… check again on Rodriguez. He used medical redshirt
I think Hall did have his head down when coach pulled him in the Southern Miss game, but he got the hook after a turnover that most nights would have been called a defensive foul, and then he was banished to the end of the bench. JJIII also got a hook right after a Steph Curry range three brick but he got back in.
I'm not trying to justify his behavior or say that I support his transferring, but I think in the context I could understand a young kids frustration especially when during his pre-commitment interview process he was very clear that playing time was a big reason why he was coming to UNLV.
I have a hard time using twitter as too much evidence. But I understand why someone might take tweets and suggest that they're supporting evidence given the context of this discussion. But Keshon also has "I'm gone
eace"" as his tag line, so who knows what tweets really mean?I personally don't like trying to judge a kid by body language or social media, that doesn't mean what you're doing is an attack necessarily. I came on too strong here.
The truth is probably somewhere between our paradigms.
On LuRod you're 100% right! I missed the RS in 2019--although I think he'll be playing pro ball in the G-league next year. He's got a nice 3 and D pro ready body and is shooting much better. Unless of course our NLI gets a LOT better.
I agree with you on all of this. Especially with it lying somewhere in the middle. No matter the outcome or issue, I’ll root for the kid.I must have come across as snarkier than I intended. So apologies from me as well.
I think Hall did have his head down when coach pulled him in the Southern Miss game, but he got the hook after a turnover that most nights would have been called a defensive foul, and then he was banished to the end of the bench. JJIII also got a hook right after a Steph Curry range three brick but he got back in.
I'm not trying to justify his behavior or say that I support his transferring, but I think in the context I could understand a young kids frustration especially when during his pre-commitment interview process he was very clear that playing time was a big reason why he was coming to UNLV.
I have a hard time using twitter as too much evidence. But I understand why someone might take tweets and suggest that they're supporting evidence given the context of this discussion. But Keshon also has "I'm gone
I personally don't like trying to judge a kid by body language or social media, that doesn't mean what you're doing is an attack necessarily. I came on too strong here.
The truth is probably somewhere between our paradigms.
On LuRod you're 100% right! I missed the RS in 2019--although I think he'll be playing pro ball in the G-league next year. He's got a nice 3 and D pro ready body and is shooting much better. Unless of course our NLI gets a LOT better.
Also agree with your take on LuRod. He’s developed into a strong player and wouldn’t be surprised to see him try and make the jump.
I understand it but i dont. I mean is HALL dominating in practice?? Does he see something the coaching staff doesn't? Does his teammates tell him he should be getting more minutes??? IS he scoring at a high clip against our best defenders?? Too me he seems like a slower big guy that usually get better and contribute at a decent level to a higher level in year 2-3 REDSHIRT also. Too bad we dont close out games better or he would get more minutes and a chance to shine. I trust the coaching staff. I think his lack of intensity on the D is what is preventing him from getting minutes.
A coach is going to play whoever it is that gives them their best chance of winning, unless it’s a disciplinary/doghouse situation. So if he’s not playing enough minutes, it’s because he’s not helping enough/hurting the team too much … that’s the way I see it (yes, there are exceptions).
We can lose anywhere from 4-9 players this year. While I know how the portal has changed things big time I would hope we are looking at 3-5 players on average to change each year and not the 8-10. I would hope we don't have to play a crappy ooc each year so the team can learn to play together. But it is what it is, and if Hall wants out then good luck in your next location and don't let the door hit you on your way out. I mean I like him and think he would be a big help as a jr/Sr but if he doesn't want to be here then go ahead and move on.
I was definitely rooting for Hall but like a few here have already said, if he doesn’t want to play D, then see ya later! He has a seat up close and personal to see that playing D helps with the win/loss record and if he is too immature to see he needs to buy in, then get out… As for Kevin, keep on keeping on coach!
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
Too damn much drama. If you gonna go, go kid! Dont let the f*cking door hit you in the a$$ or let it...if you gonna stay and commit to play and work hard. That is college.
Sounding like my great granddaughter deciding which Girlfriend to hang out with for the afternoon.
