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What do the ACC's new exit fees mean for the current negotiations with the PAC?

Couev

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Dec 8, 2003
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Looks like the ACC is playing extreme hardball to keep FSU, UNC, and Clemson home until the B1G contract is finalized. Will this have any bearing on the current mediation for the MWC exit/poaching fees?

Sorry I didn't link the actual article as it's paywalled.
 
Historically, those media contracts are negotiated prior to them expiring, the B1G media rights expire after the 2029/30 season.

Now the language on leaving has been a little more specific once I found the data published beyond the paywall. It's 200 million to depart this year, and that number goes down by 15 million per year until AFTER the 2029/30 season where it drops to 75 million.

Now, there's nothing posted about them agreeing to leave the conference before then and exiting only when the the big drop off happens and the B1G including those new markets in their negotiations though I'm sure there's language in there to protect against that specifically. It looks like they're just protecting themselves from B1G expansion based on media contracts--the B1G obviously can afford to help them by giving them smaller shares for a few years as well or just outright--and there's some allure to the likes of Florida State, NC, and Clemson.

I'm really curious how this will end up affecting the bottom line for the MWC/PAC negotiations if at all--because this is the opposite of what we've seen so far for negotiating lower costs to get out of conference affiliation.
 


Looks like the ACC is playing extreme hardball to keep FSU, UNC, and Clemson home until the B1G contract is finalized. Will this have any bearing on the current mediation for the MWC exit/poaching fees?

Sorry I didn't link the actual article as it's paywalled.

Who knows. This stuff makes my head spin.

I think ultimately it all comes down to media rights revenue.
 
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Historically, those media contracts are negotiated prior to them expiring, the B1G media rights expire after the 2029/30 season.

Now the language on leaving has been a little more specific once I found the data published beyond the paywall. It's 200 million to depart this year, and that number goes down by 15 million per year until AFTER the 2029/30 season where it drops to 75 million.

Now, there's nothing posted about them agreeing to leave the conference before then and exiting only when the the big drop off happens and the B1G including those new markets in their negotiations though I'm sure there's language in there to protect against that specifically. It looks like they're just protecting themselves from B1G expansion based on media contracts--the B1G obviously can afford to help them by giving them smaller shares for a few years as well or just outright--and there's some allure to the likes of Florida State, NC, and Clemson.

I'm really curious how this will end up affecting the bottom line for the MWC/PAC negotiations if at all--because this is the opposite of what we've seen so far for negotiating lower costs to get out of conference affiliation.

Every conference has upper/mid/bottom tiers.

In the G5/G6 the top teams hold out hopes for Power conference invites. The mid/bottom schools don't want to see them leave because it likely impacts the media deal down the road. Maybe I'm understanding this wrong and my hypothesis here is nonsense but.

Are we seeing the mid/bottom tier teams voting to raise exit fees in an attempt to hold things together for their own benefit by holding top teams hostage?

I mean UNLV/Memphis/Tulane of the world would all bolt regardless of exit fees to a power conference.

But if you are the AAC/MAC/CUSA you don't want to see your top schools bolt to another 'Group of' conference.

(Not sure that made sense or not)
 
UNLV to B1G confirmed... ACC stays together, we become travel partners with USC and UCLA...
Happy Comedy Central GIF by Awkwafina is Nora from Queens
 
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At this point I would be happy being Cal and Stanford's travel partner.
The more I look at the map and travel partners, the more sense the B12 makes (Even more so than the current MWC). ASU, UofA, and BYeew. These are all schools within driving distances. Each already has a large Las Vegas resident representation. The logistics and economics are right there.

I think Memphis and UNLV would be the next options and probably a coin toss decision at this point for this reason. A CFP invite this season would probably put us well in front of ANY and ALL options. It would be a super easy sell to the current B12 schools. If Boise were to take the CFP again, I still don't see their location and all of their many short comings getting them into anything other than a whore'ified version of a G5 like the PAC. Unless the B12 gets picked absolutely clean by the P2 super conference merger. SDSU was my only other worry, but their METRICS have taken a sh*t at the worst/best possible time.
 
The more I look at the map and travel partners, the more sense the B12 makes (Even more so than the current MWC). ASU, UofA, and BYeew. These are all schools within driving distances. Each already has a large Las Vegas resident representation. The logistics and economics are right there.

I think Memphis and UNLV would be the next options and probably a coin toss decision at this point for this reason. A CFP invite this season would probably put us well in front of ANY and ALL options. It would be a super easy sell to the current B12 schools. If Boise were to take the CFP again, I still don't see their location and all of their many short comings getting them into anything other than a whore'ified version of a G5 like the PAC. Unless the B12 gets picked absolutely clean by the P2 super conference merger. SDSU was my only other worry, but their METRICS have taken a sh*t at the worst/best possible time.
I would think we have advantages over Boise but if they go to the CFP again I could definitely see them getting picked simply because of their success. Plus they draw fans and attract as many TV eyeballs as us. We have other advantages though.
 
I would think we have advantages over Boise but if they go to the CFP again I could definitely see them getting picked simply because of their success. Plus they draw fans and attract as many TV eyeballs as us. We have other advantages though.
Boise made their own conference. Id be pissed if I was the Pac 12 and Boise walks out the door in 4 years... theyre really the only reason your conference exists.
 
Boise made their own conference. Id be pissed if I was the Pac 12 and Boise walks out the door in 4 years... theyre really the only reason your conference exists.

Maybe I'm reading to much into things but anybody find it odd that PAC hasn't announced Texas State and reportedly won't announce 8th member until mediia deal is finalized?

Why they said 'there's nobody left that would increase media payout' which means they must have a number of some kind right?.

Did Texas State make handshake agreement to taking a partial but want to see what final numbers look like before it's official?

Just seems odd you could pry USU immediately but Texas State is taking months...(Allegedly)
 
Maybe I'm reading to much into things but anybody find it odd that PAC hasn't announced Texas State and reportedly won't announce 8th member until mediia deal is finalized?

Why they said 'there's nobody left that would increase media payout' which means they must have a number of some kind right?.

Did Texas State make handshake agreement to taking a partial but want to see what final numbers look like before it's official?

Just seems odd you could pry USU immediately but Texas State is taking months...(Allegedly)
I don't find it odd, I find it stupid. Face it, the Pac has boxed itself into a corner. Texas State, who I don't hate, is too damn far away, particularly since they have to be an all-sport member. No one out there is going to move the media needle. Including Memphis, Tulane, etc. So what is the Pac waiting for? Texas State is probably (and should be) demanding money. Full immediate shares, pay their buyout, whatever. Same with any others.

I've said this before - Let's say the Pac has a $10M/team media deal on the table. To increase that by $1M/team, the new school would need to be worth $18M. $11M for them and the extra M for the rest. Right?

Fire Teresa, go to the table for once and craft the reverse merger. Way better solution, even now.
 
I don't find it odd, I find it stupid. Face it, the Pac has boxed itself into a corner. Texas State, who I don't hate, is too damn far away, particularly since they have to be an all-sport member. No one out there is going to move the media needle. Including Memphis, Tulane, etc. So what is the Pac waiting for? Texas State is probably (and should be) demanding money. Full immediate shares, pay their buyout, whatever. Same with any others.

I've said this before - Let's say the Pac has a $10M/team media deal on the table. To increase that by $1M/team, the new school would need to be worth $18M. $11M for them and the extra M for the rest. Right?

Fire Teresa, go to the table for once and craft the reverse merger. Way better solution, even now.

I don't think this will happen and not suggesting it will. But.

SDSU AD a lot of appearances talking PAC stuff/future. Boise AD did a video. CSU/USU little blurbs here and there about it. It's very possible I missed it but I can't recall seeing anything from Fresno AD. If they have made some statements then ignore the following. But if anybody in the PAC (Fresno) gets cold feet or the money turns out to be less than what was needed and they break ranks, THE PAC falls apart before it even gets started.

I think PAC will end up 'fine' in relative terms, but adding Texas State was definitely not in the cards. This wasn't the pseudo Power conference they envisioned.
 
I don't think this will happen and not suggesting it will. But.

SDSU AD a lot of appearances talking PAC stuff/future. Boise AD did a video. CSU/USU little blurbs here and there about it. It's very possible I missed it but I can't recall seeing anything from Fresno AD. If they have made some statements then ignore the following. But if anybody in the PAC (Fresno) gets cold feet or the money turns out to be less than what was needed and they break ranks, THE PAC falls apart before it even gets started.

I think PAC will end up 'fine' in relative terms, but adding Texas State was definitely not in the cards. This wasn't the pseudo Power conference they envisioned.
Yeah. Trying to destroy the MW, then having to settle for a Sun Belt school is definitely not the best path to have gone down.
 
I don't find it odd, I find it stupid. Face it, the Pac has boxed itself into a corner. Texas State, who I don't hate, is too damn far away, particularly since they have to be an all-sport member. No one out there is going to move the media needle. Including Memphis, Tulane, etc. So what is the Pac waiting for? Texas State is probably (and should be) demanding money. Full immediate shares, pay their buyout, whatever. Same with any others.

I've said this before - Let's say the Pac has a $10M/team media deal on the table. To increase that by $1M/team, the new school would need to be worth $18M. $11M for them and the extra M for the rest. Right?

Fire Teresa, go to the table for once and craft the reverse merger. Way better solution, even now.
Those Pac 12 flights are gonna suck...
 
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Those Pac 12 flights are gonna suck...
At least 737's can now land at the Pullman Airport. Less than 10 minutes to campus and all the fields/courts and stadiums. Commercial flights for the non-rev sports aren't that pretty though. First stop Seattle.
 
At least 737's can now land at the Pullman Airport. Less than 10 minutes to campus and all the fields/courts and stadiums. Commercial flights for the non-rev sports aren't that pretty though. First stop Seattle.
Wow, they bus in from Sea-Tac? I thought it would be from Spokane.
 
At least 737's can now land at the Pullman Airport. Less than 10 minutes to campus and all the fields/courts and stadiums. Commercial flights for the non-rev sports aren't that pretty though. First stop Seattle.

Not saying there is any truth to the following statement but Fresno boards have a poster claiming to be a bit of an insider, saying the prospect of Tuesday and or Wed night games is being kicked around.

YES TUESDAY DOUBLE HEADER ESPN MACTION/PACTION!

MIAMI (OH) Vs BALL STATE at 5pm Eastern followed by UTAH STATE VS CSU AT 11PM EASTERN.

In all seriousness that would be awful for home attendance.

I've been to games in Pullman and Corvallis. I know a lot of folks commute 30-45 minutes or more.

Fresno/BSU probably be ok. CSU ok. USU not so much. SDSU don't think it would matter.

That said do you really want Boise (Arguably top brand) playing on a Tuesday vs USU instead of a Saturday?
 
Not saying there is any truth to the following statement but Fresno boards have a poster claiming to be a bit of an insider, saying the prospect of Tuesday and or Wed night games is being kicked around.

YES TUESDAY DOUBLE HEADER ESPN MACTION/PACTION!

MIAMI (OH) Vs BALL STATE at 5pm Eastern followed by UTAH STATE VS CSU AT 11PM EASTERN.

In all seriousness that would be awful for home attendance.

I've been to games in Pullman and Corvallis. I know a lot of folks commute 30-45 minutes or more.

Fresno/BSU probably be ok. CSU ok. USU not so much. SDSU don't think it would matter.

That said do you really want Boise (Arguably top brand) playing on a Tuesday vs USU instead of a Saturday?
Teresa Gould even said they were looking at midweek games per their media deal. It's the only way they can get the amount of money to make $9 million. Plus some of those games go streaming.

Home attendance is their least worry. They want to show everyone that the media is going to pay for them. It's a "Hey look at us moment".

They suck.
 
Teresa Gould even said they were looking at midweek games per their media deal. It's the only way they can get the amount of money to make $9 million. Plus some of those games go streaming.

Home attendance is their least worry. They want to show everyone that the media is going to pay for them. It's a "Hey look at us moment".

They suck.

I get it but man that is awful for fans.

Plus, do you really want Boise vs WSU or OSU on a Tuesday night vs a Saturday?

I think you would be negatively impacting ratings potential that way putting your top brands there. So what's the alternative? Throw USU Vs Texas State? Those numbers wouldn't be great because of the matchup.

I would think you'd like top brands and marquee games on Saturday. Which means USU, TexasState (assuming thats the next addition) and others getting shafted with the Tuesday night games.
 
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Not saying there is any truth to the following statement but Fresno boards have a poster claiming to be a bit of an insider, saying the prospect of Tuesday and or Wed night games is being kicked around.

YES TUESDAY DOUBLE HEADER ESPN MACTION/PACTION!

MIAMI (OH) Vs BALL STATE at 5pm Eastern followed by UTAH STATE VS CSU AT 11PM EASTERN.

In all seriousness that would be awful for home attendance.

I've been to games in Pullman and Corvallis. I know a lot of folks commute 30-45 minutes or more.

Fresno/BSU probably be ok. CSU ok. USU not so much. SDSU don't think it would matter.

That said do you really want Boise (Arguably top brand) playing on a Tuesday vs USU instead of a Saturday?
I do not know the prices for tickets at the average school, but if you purchases an individual ticket for $50 on average, and lose 7,500 fans per game for games played on a Tuesday or Wednesday, that would be a loss of $375,000 per game plus concessions and parking which you could guess would be around $400,000-450,000 per game. If you play two games on those days, then you could easily be closing in on revenue loss up towards $1 million per season which would need to be deducted from the media deal to get the true financial value of the media deal, which is just another drop down from the original $12-16 million that was being batted around.

Interesting point regarding tickets, based on the price of UNLV tickets, it is likely UNLV will lead both conferences in regards to income from ticket sales this next season by a comfortable margin!
 
I do not know the prices for tickets at the average school, but if you purchases an individual ticket for $50 on average, and lose 7,500 fans per game for games played on a Tuesday or Wednesday, that would be a loss of $375,000 per game plus concessions and parking which you could guess would be around $400,000-450,000 per game. If you play two games on those days, then you could easily be closing in on revenue loss up towards $1 million per season which would need to be deducted from the media deal to get the true financial value of the media deal, which is just another drop down from the original $12-16 million that was being batted around.

Interesting point regarding tickets, based on the price of UNLV tickets, it is likely UNLV will lead both conferences in regards to income from ticket sales this next season by a comfortable margin!

Definitely possible
 
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Maybe I'm reading to much into things but anybody find it odd that PAC hasn't announced Texas State and reportedly won't announce 8th member until mediia deal is finalized?

Why they said 'there's nobody left that would increase media payout' which means they must have a number of some kind right?.

Did Texas State make handshake agreement to taking a partial but want to see what final numbers look like before it's official?

Just seems odd you could pry USU immediately but Texas State is taking months...(Allegedly)
Texas State is an axe in a glass box on the wall.

They are 100% a back up option. They could have added them months ago.

Time is running out for them, but they are holding out hope that perhaps the poaching lawsuits gets thrown out to see if they can get someone better.

I'm sure there has been some back and forth on how much Texas State would get, but that isn't the hold up. THey turned the MW down months ago, simply because they thought they had a good chance at the PAC.

The PAC is stringing them along as a last resort. It looks like it will likely happen, but who knows. There does seem to be more and more smoke that UNLV and the rest of the MW will not get anywhere the money that they thought. Does that create enough of a legal out for them?
 
Texas State is an axe in a glass box on the wall.

They are 100% a back up option. They could have added them months ago.

Time is running out for them, but they are holding out hope that perhaps the poaching lawsuits gets thrown out to see if they can get someone better.

I'm sure there has been some back and forth on how much Texas State would get, but that isn't the hold up. THey turned the MW down months ago, simply because they thought they had a good chance at the PAC.

The PAC is stringing them along as a last resort. It looks like it will likely happen, but who knows. There does seem to be more and more smoke that UNLV and the rest of the MW will not get anywhere the money that they thought. Does that create enough of a legal out for them?

I dont know.

Things that seemed Iron clad in the past, like signing a contract, seemingly don't matter much.

The PACs argument that the poaching fees are excessive might have merit.

The 'we were under duress needing to put together a schedule' argument is a steaming pile of horse manure. Reason being. They literally just put a schedule together for the upcoming season in less time. It doesn't hold water.

The PAC defectors are playing semantics with we never officially announced. 'We never officially announced so we still have voting rights'. Technically they never served the MWC with the official requests to exit. However their ADs have all been quoted, all had public appearances saying 'we are excited about the new PAC. Not to mention all their official social media outlets putting graphics out announcing their intention to leave.

Will the PAC get out of some of it? I'm sure. All of it? No.

They have some 'technicality' outs. Won't argue that. But if it went to trial you cannot tell me you could convince the majority of a jury they were 'under duress'. Also MWC lawyers would have on fat piece of 'gotcha' The PAC defectors are using essentially the same argument the original PAC defectors used claiming they still had voting rights.

Unless PAC media deal comes in at 12-15 million Memphis/Tulane aren't budging as full members. Football only for Memphis? Sure definitely possible. But they need an 8th full member. And this is no knock on Texas State, but it's a long way from creating a pseudo Power conference by adding the AAC 4 and adding just Texas State. A long long way.
 
Texas State is an axe in a glass box on the wall.

They are 100% a back up option. They could have added them months ago.

Time is running out for them, but they are holding out hope that perhaps the poaching lawsuits gets thrown out to see if they can get someone better.

I'm sure there has been some back and forth on how much Texas State would get, but that isn't the hold up. THey turned the MW down months ago, simply because they thought they had a good chance at the PAC.

The PAC is stringing them along as a last resort. It looks like it will likely happen, but who knows. There does seem to be more and more smoke that UNLV and the rest of the MW will not get anywhere the money that they thought. Does that create enough of a legal out for them?
If the other schools can get out of a current contract, why wouldnt we be able to get out of an even less secure contract. One that stipules financial incentives for staying and if they cant be met, why would that be binding...
 
I dont know.

Things that seemed Iron clad in the past, like signing a contract, seemingly don't matter much.

The PACs argument that the poaching fees are excessive might have merit.

The 'we were under duress needing to put together a schedule' argument is a steaming pile of horse manure. Reason being. They literally just put a schedule together for the upcoming season in less time. It doesn't hold water.

The PAC defectors are playing semantics with we never officially announced. 'We never officially announced so we still have voting rights'. Technically they never served the MWC with the official requests to exit. However their ADs have all been quoted, all had public appearances saying 'we are excited about the new PAC. Not to mention all their official social media outlets putting graphics out announcing their intention to leave.

Will the PAC get out of some of it? I'm sure. All of it? No.

They have some 'technicality' outs. Won't argue that. But if it went to trial you cannot tell me you could convince the majority of a jury they were 'under duress'. Also MWC lawyers would have on fat piece of 'gotcha' The PAC defectors are using essentially the same argument the original PAC defectors used claiming they still had voting rights.

Unless PAC media deal comes in at 12-15 million Memphis/Tulane aren't budging as full members. Football only for Memphis? Sure definitely possible. But they need an 8th full member. And this is no knock on Texas State, but it's a long way from creating a pseudo Power conference by adding the AAC 4 and adding just Texas State. A long long way.
Yes and no.

It is a little different this year vs last.

Last year they didn't know where they were going to be until very very late. They were still campaigning to part of a different conference for a while.

This year they knew very early that they weren't signing up for an extension on that agreement, they probably knew they weren't going to extend that agreement last year when they signed it. So they had potentially an entire year to put a schedule together as opposed to months maybe weeks.

There is some legitimacy to the argument of being "bullied".

Now the terms of the scheduling agreement itself in terms of payouts are not contested, but still a part of the big picture when it comes to being taken advantage of. We charge them the equivalent of a top tier SEC/B1G teams. They paid 14 mil for 14 games. Typically OOC games the home team pays the visiting team. So with the lost money of playing a road game and the cost of hosting the games it is like paying 2 mil for the home games without the revenue of the roadies. Which is 2.3.2.5 mil per home game. That's what we get for playing Michigan. Is that fair market value? Hell no! That is exploitation.

I do think they will get some sympathy because no one can deny that the rest of the PAC royally effed them. And they got 65 mil ( down from the agreed 100 mil) and future credits for it. Meanwhile the MW is asking for well over 100 mil in total for taking 5 teams that are worth a fraction of the teams that left.

As for the semantics? Yes they are doing it, but they are also following the written law of the MW contract. They don't officially leave the conference until they declare in writing and pay a fee. They are playing with those rules, but they are members still with voting rights legally. It gives them some protection if say the Big 12 randomly offers WAZZU and OSU to join. So I get why it is there.

As for the payouts? Yes it is a long, long way. But that initial 12-15 mil was without CBS, Fox, and/or ESPN. It looks like at least one of those are willing to be partners. Which makes me think that the pot will get a bit sweeter. How much sweeter? I have no idea, but I do think it will be an easy upgrade for our defectors. A good deal for the Pac 2? Only if they stick this out for a couple of decades to break even.

I don't think Memphis joins. It just doesn't make sense, even if they have a P4 free pass. They are going to get 9 mil for probably a couple of years before that drops, and even for 12-13 mil a year it wouldn't make sense with the travel burden and with likely 18 mil in exit fees.
They could be football only, since they will satisfy the requirements with that, but what they do with the other sports? Big East? ( actually that could make sense), but I still don't think it is worth it to them.
 
If the other schools can get out of a current contract, why wouldnt we be able to get out of an even less secure contract. One that stipules financial incentives for staying and if they cant be met, why would that be binding...
I don't know, but others have looked at the language and what we signed doesn't have any guarantees with the numbers, so I can see that holding us in place.

I would hope we could potentially break it.
 
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Yes and no.

It is a little different this year vs last.

Last year they didn't know where they were going to be until very very late. They were still campaigning to part of a different conference for a while.

This year they knew very early that they weren't signing up for an extension on that agreement, they probably knew they weren't going to extend that agreement last year when they signed it. So they had potentially an entire year to put a schedule together as opposed to months maybe weeks.

There is some legitimacy to the argument of being "bullied".

Now the terms of the scheduling agreement itself in terms of payouts are not contested, but still a part of the big picture when it comes to being taken advantage of. We charge them the equivalent of a top tier SEC/B1G teams. They paid 14 mil for 14 games. Typically OOC games the home team pays the visiting team. So with the lost money of playing a road game and the cost of hosting the games it is like paying 2 mil for the home games without the revenue of the roadies. Which is 2.3.2.5 mil per home game. That's what we get for playing Michigan. Is that fair market value? Hell no! That is exploitation.

I do think they will get some sympathy because no one can deny that the rest of the PAC royally effed them. And they got 65 mil ( down from the agreed 100 mil) and future credits for it. Meanwhile the MW is asking for well over 100 mil in total for taking 5 teams that are worth a fraction of the teams that left.

As for the semantics? Yes they are doing it, but they are also following the written law of the MW contract. They don't officially leave the conference until they declare in writing and pay a fee. They are playing with those rules, but they are members still with voting rights legally. It gives them some protection if say the Big 12 randomly offers WAZZU and OSU to join. So I get why it is there.

As for the payouts? Yes it is a long, long way. But that initial 12-15 mil was without CBS, Fox, and/or ESPN. It looks like at least one of those are willing to be partners. Which makes me think that the pot will get a bit sweeter. How much sweeter? I have no idea, but I do think it will be an easy upgrade for our defectors. A good deal for the Pac 2? Only if they stick this out for a couple of decades to break even.

I don't think Memphis joins. It just doesn't make sense, even if they have a P4 free pass. They are going to get 9 mil for probably a couple of years before that drops, and even for 12-13 mil a year it wouldn't make sense with the travel burden and with likely 18 mil in exit fees.
They could be football only, since they will satisfy the requirements with that, but what they do with the other sports? Big East? ( actually that could make sense), but I still don't think it is worth it to them.

Im not sure a jury would buy the 'bullied'.

You signed a contract. You were sitting on mounds of cash. You used said cash to raid a conference and did exactly what had been done to you. Not sure anybody is grabbing for a kleenex listening to that sad story.

There's also one pesky thing that would have to come out in discovery..

Was there correspondence between PAC2 and MWC4 during the signing of the poaching agreements about a potential break from MWC.

If there was that would show collusion. The MWC 4 president's and ADs sat in on and helped write contracts that they were knowingly going to attempt to break.

I think that is a real concern for the PAC case.

No the situations aren't exactly the same but close enough that a juror might think so..

All bias aside I'm sitting on a jury and see they signed a contract. You are going to have a really hard time convincing me there was duress. Especially while under so much 'duress' they figured out a way to dismantle the MWC..

Doesn't sound very 'duressy'
 
Im not sure a jury would buy the 'bullied'.

You signed a contract. You were sitting on mounds of cash. You used said cash to raid a conference and did exactly what had been done to you. Not sure anybody is grabbing for a kleenex listening to that sad story.

There's also one pesky thing that would have to come out in discovery..

Was there correspondence between PAC2 and MWC4 during the signing of the poaching agreements about a potential break from MWC.

If there was that would show collusion. The MWC 4 president's and ADs sat in on and helped write contracts that they were knowingly going to attempt to break.

I think that is a real concern for the PAC case.

No the situations aren't exactly the same but close enough that a juror might think so..

All bias aside I'm sitting on a jury and see they signed a contract. You are going to have a really hard time convincing me there was duress. Especially while under so much 'duress' they figured out a way to dismantle the MWC..

Doesn't sound very 'duressy'
I'm with you on this one. You knew the risk, agreed to it, and signed it.
 
Im not sure a jury would buy the 'bullied'.

You signed a contract. You were sitting on mounds of cash. You used said cash to raid a conference and did exactly what had been done to you. Not sure anybody is grabbing for a kleenex listening to that sad story.

There's also one pesky thing that would have to come out in discovery..

Was there correspondence between PAC2 and MWC4 during the signing of the poaching agreements about a potential break from MWC.

If there was that would show collusion. The MWC 4 president's and ADs sat in on and helped write contracts that they were knowingly going to attempt to break.

I think that is a real concern for the PAC case.

No the situations aren't exactly the same but close enough that a juror might think so..

All bias aside I'm sitting on a jury and see they signed a contract. You are going to have a really hard time convincing me there was duress. Especially while under so much 'duress' they figured out a way to dismantle the MWC..

Doesn't sound very 'duressy'
Wont go to a jury.. They dont want it to go to Jury and I dont think the MWC does either.
 
Im not sure a jury would buy the 'bullied'.

You signed a contract. You were sitting on mounds of cash. You used said cash to raid a conference and did exactly what had been done to you. Not sure anybody is grabbing for a kleenex listening to that sad story.

There's also one pesky thing that would have to come out in discovery..

Was there correspondence between PAC2 and MWC4 during the signing of the poaching agreements about a potential break from MWC.

If there was that would show collusion. The MWC 4 president's and ADs sat in on and helped write contracts that they were knowingly going to attempt to break.

I think that is a real concern for the PAC case.

No the situations aren't exactly the same but close enough that a juror might think so..

All bias aside I'm sitting on a jury and see they signed a contract. You are going to have a really hard time convincing me there was duress. Especially while under so much 'duress' they figured out a way to dismantle the MWC..

Doesn't sound very 'duressy'
In theory and principle I am with you 100%

But we know at least with contracts when it comes to exit fees, the written agreement never holds up. I have no idea why this is the case, but it is 100% of the case.

Poaching fees are a bit unprecedented.

The PAC 2 was 100% screwed. Sure they have a "mountain of money" but also mountains of debt. And their future earnings was ripped away from them where they would be lucky to get 50% of what they were used to.

We paid Syracuse 300k for playing us last year, we charged the PAC2 an equivalent of 2.3 mil (considering the lost revenue) for every game with them essentially. Oh yeah, and added the poaching agreement on top of that.

I can also see the jury look at the MW, and see that we completed exploited them when they were desperate.

I can also see that poaching fees basically be an unprecedented move and that it is like the MW was trying to get double the Exit fees, exit fees that were already exorbitant.

The PAC was screwed way more than the MW was screwed. And I think the strong arm tactics of the MW with the PAC with the agreement could make the MW look like the bullies and the PAC as the underdogs.

Even with the poaching agreement, if the MW wanted a more reasonable amount for the games last season, the MW could be in better shape with this lawsuit.

As for collusion? That is a stretch. I personally don't think that was the case. Harper seemed to be legitimately blindsided with when the original 4 broke free. I doubt that this was in the works for over a year. Word would have gone around, because you know that UNLV was a possible add on for this. How could they be completely in the dark for that long.
 
Wont go to a jury.. They dont want it to go to Jury and I dont think the MWC does either.

Neither side does

The funny thing.

The poaching fees are 'excessive'.

Yet.

You signed it.

And

They obviously weren't excessive enough because you still did the thing they were put in place.

And

You knowingly signed a contract You had no intention of honoring.

The PAC has to fight all three of those and prove distress.
 
In theory and principle I am with you 100%

But we know at least with contracts when it comes to exit fees, the written agreement never holds up. I have no idea why this is the case, but it is 100% of the case.

Poaching fees are a bit unprecedented.

The PAC 2 was 100% screwed. Sure they have a "mountain of money" but also mountains of debt. And their future earnings was ripped away from them where they would be lucky to get 50% of what they were used to.

We paid Syracuse 300k for playing us last year, we charged the PAC2 an equivalent of 2.3 mil (considering the lost revenue) for every game with them essentially. Oh yeah, and added the poaching agreement on top of that.

I can also see the jury look at the MW, and see that we completed exploited them when they were desperate.

I can also see that poaching fees basically be an unprecedented move and that it is like the MW was trying to get double the Exit fees, exit fees that were already exorbitant.

The PAC was screwed way more than the MW was screwed. And I think the strong arm tactics of the MW with the PAC with the agreement could make the MW look like the bullies and the PAC as the underdogs.

Even with the poaching agreement, if the MW wanted a more reasonable amount for the games last season, the MW could be in better shape with this lawsuit.

As for collusion? That is a stretch. I personally don't think that was the case. Harper seemed to be legitimately blindsided with when the original 4 broke free. I doubt that this was in the works for over a year. Word would have gone around, because you know that UNLV was a possible add on for this. How could they be completely in the dark for that long.

For sure.

As for timing.

MWC does need the money. (So does the PAC). However MWC has the payments set for a year from now to the MWC schools (I think 2026).

The PAC has to have their 8 full members by June/July of this year or this whole thing is over. MWC can delay longer than PAC can.
 
At least 737's can now land at the Pullman Airport. Less than 10 minutes to campus and all the fields/courts and stadiums. Commercial flights for the non-rev sports aren't that pretty though. First stop Seattle.
Wow, they bus in from Sea-Tac? I thought it would be from Spokane.
No I was referring to the 3 Alaska Air flights in and out of Pullman daily. They all fly to Seattle. I assume that some minor teams do fly out of Spokane, which is 80 miles from Pullman.
 
For sure.

As for timing.

MWC does need the money. (So does the PAC). However MWC has the payments set for a year from now to the MWC schools (I think 2026).

The PAC has to have their 8 full members by June/July of this year or this whole thing is over. MWC can delay longer than PAC can.
Right before the new school year I expect the 5 to officially put their notice in. I can also see the PAC waiting that long to announce Texas State.

I think they are going to wait on making that official until it is impossible that UNLV can join. See how the arbitration goes with the lawsuits between now and then.

They really don't want Tx State. So I think they wait until the last minute, just in case.
 
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Right before the new school year I expect the 5 to officially put their notice in. I can also see the PAC waiting that long to announce Texas State.

I think they are going to wait on making that official until it is impossible that UNLV can join. See how the arbitration goes with the lawsuits between now and then.

They really don't want Tx State. So I think they wait until the last minute, just in case.

No they don't want Texas State, but the options are limited. Said before Memphis might be in play as a FB only addition. Bothe Memphis and Tulane really have to weigh their options. Both are on the radar for the ACC. I also think the BIG12 might be in play as well. Cincy/WVU/UCF would probably like a couple more teams to the East to help out with travel.

It is amusing to watch the mental gymnastics of PAC fans scoffing at Texas State turning down the MWC (LOL poverty conference can't even get Texas State' to now 'You know, it's a program on the rise and we need a Texas market'...
 
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