OT: Will Shipley Blew his ACL
- Thread starter lobbybuu
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Its case to case but
Everybody wants to get to a good bowl game and get bowl eligible - Nobody ever talks about winning the bowl game......do people even keep track of who wins the Bowl games ? Other than the top 4 to decide the Natty ? who Gives a F***?
If they are your brothers _ they will be Happy AF you have a chance to get drafted. Go for it
The game has changed - College athletics are NOT AMATURE sports any more - holding players to old standards in common - fans are going to have a hard time getting used to college players NOT playing for just a scholarship and playing more from $$$ these days.
Yes the Story is great Rah Rah - "PLay for Honor Play for the University and its Legacy- Do it for the Gipper - Play for the Scarlet and Grey - Roll Tide - Do it for your fellow Brothers who stand by your side"....Whatever all that stuff is great for TV and movies. Truth is
facts are Facts- IN todays world Athletes chase and pursue
1 thing. PAPER $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Sorry but millions of dollars and draft statuses are more important than who wins some silly bowl game.
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Well, at what point?
Why play in the last regular season game before the bowl? Why play in week 11? 10? What’s the cutoff? If a bowl game championship doesn’t matter, does the conference championship really matter? Why? If the goal is status and NFL draft point and not team accolades …
There’s inherent risk game to game. Why is one at the very end riskier than one in the middle?
Maybe we should start load balancing the entire course of the season for the important players? If they play half as many snaps as usual, then playing an entire season plus bowl is equivalent to a half season essentially, which gives you less opportunity at injury. Because it’s really play to play based, not game to game based.
And that brings us to practices, as well. Why not take it easy? Practice? We talking bout practice.
I don’t have all the answers on this. I personally don’t like it. It epitomizes self over team. But pretending there isn’t a viable alternative view …
I couldn’t care less what they choose to do. I certainly don’t like when they don’t play, but it’s their life, so whatever. But it does demonstrate why the games are lesser to many fans … because there’s not a lot of pride or loyalty at all, it’s all about self.
While I was watching our bowl I was wishing that Kansas had two WR’s, a QB, a RB, 2 more OL, and 3 DL that sat out.
With all this being said, do you view Donavyn Lester negatively for sitting out the bowl game?
It’s a tough one for me. Jaylon Smith (ND LB) had a significant knee injury in the bowl game and went from top 10 pick to out of the first round costing him a significant amount of money. And now Shipley (though not the same type of prospect). At the same time, as mentioned above, when do you shut it down? After your team is essentially eliminated from the playoffs? Plus add in the fact that these players are making significant $ in the NIL realm. I don’t have a good answer. I think if it was me, I would play, but that is a very easy thing to say when it’s not a decision I have to make. I do believe something needs to be done. Backups vs Backups don’t make for very good football and makes most of these games difficult to watch. Ohio St was a shell of the team they were in the regular season and scored a whole 3 points tonight. And that was, allegedly, a premier NY6 bowl.
Yes why is the last game more dangerous than the first? If they don't play a full season then why shouldn't the school require the player return all of their NIL money? Why should they allow them to remain enrolled without paying full tuition? If this isn't amateur any more well the schools are under no obligation to provide a venue for you to try out for the NFL.
The are all screaming that they want to be treated like employees and they want to be paid, even while 99% of them have zero chance of going pro, then when they quit, shouldn't all benefits end immediately?
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No, not really. Everyone should be able to make their choice. I’ve always been about freedom of choice. I think it absolutely sucks from a fan standpoint.
And though I don’t view them negatively, I do hold those that choose to play in higher regard. Because a bigger part of their motivation is actual team not self.
I’d like to think I’d opt to play and it wouldn’t even be a question in my mind. But until I’m there, I can’t say for sure.
I’ve (we’ve) seen (basketball) players absolutely driven by self and self only, showcasing themselves and not caring about wins or losses, effectively using the program to get what they need. And many of them got it and they’re set. So they had a different primary goal and they achieved. So they did accomplish. It sucked to watch and it left UNLV in a worse place than they could have/should have been.
As a fan, it absolutely sucks. But we aren’t in their position so you don’t know what you’d do.
I guess I’m just a caveman that is stuck in idealism a bit. What has always attracted me to sports is the spirit of competition, the purity of me vs you, us vs them, lay it all out on the table and go at it toe to toe, may the best man/team win. I like two teams at full strength going at it, I don’t hope for injuries to key players on the other team or a suspension … toe to toe.
I’ll accept it for what it is, but it doesn’t mean I like it.
If any of that makes sense.
I think NCAA athletics has become far more a business than it was ever intended to be, and as such I expect everyone involved with the team to treat their situation as that of a business and make business decisions. You can be part of a business that has a family dynamic, but at the end of the day everyone has to make the right moves for them. Until we reach a point where finally dissolve this bogus ideal of the amateur scholar athlete and give this kids checks for playing in games then we're going to see more of this.
I agree with Joe, in that treating everything as a business removes a lot of what I loved about college athletics, but at this point that's like being sad that I can't buy leaded gas at the pump anymore.
I agree with Joe, in that treating everything as a business removes a lot of what I loved about college athletics, but at this point that's like being sad that I can't buy leaded gas at the pump anymore.
Makes it far more impersonal … I can’t speak for everyone, but part of the attraction was watching a team grow together, freshman to senior, drop a small handful off every year, grab some fresh ones, they go through the system, improve at different degrees, but you get to “know them” … on the floor, their personality in public, interviews and articles …. Certain guys clicked better with others … but you saw it all, in front of you, with your eyes … we knew Stacy was very quiet and shied from the media but his play was loud … for example … we knew Larry loved life and had the jokes … we knew Wink was quiet and humble … etc, etc, etc. When you experience it, even if you don’t know them face to face, you “know” them, it’s your team …
That’s completely gone. You could all take 12 guys from the 2017 team and place them with 100 other 20ish kids from 6-0 to 6-10, and I’d only get a couple right.
Meanwhile, I could very easily tell you to this day without looking it up that Barry Young was from Ellicott City, Maryland, wore #33 or that Dexter Boney was #24 from Wilmington, Delaware and played at Hagerstown CC before here.
While all of that is true, I also just don’t pay attention as much as I once did. When i was 9 years old I spent hours reading the backs of baseball cards, so I could tell you everything about a ton of MLB players. Today I know none of that stuff but I’m sure there are a lot of kids that can.
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Sure, I do think priorities change along the way but some of it, a big part of it, at least for me … is UNLV just stagnating in muck.
Even when I was older, in my 30’s, mid 30’s … can tell you Dalron was #10 from Verbum Dei, Jasper was #5 from Paso Robles via Kentucky … Kas 34 from Riga, Latvia … Rice’s guys were easy number and place for me because they were high profile guys … under spoon, Amundson, Boulder, Colorado, Monarch high school, #22 … all these are easy to rattle off and I’m talking when there was a priority shift for me personally, and I was older, 35-late 40’s.
Now? Unless they’re from Vegas, I’m clueless and still won’t recognize by number.
I get what you are saying and it is true …. With my favorite baseball team; the Yankees, it’s far, far more like you are stating. With UNLV, much of it is because UNLV doesn’t slightly resemble the teams of the past in quality and what they’re about. There’s zero excitement. Nobody cares …
By the way, whatever happened to Barry Young as he could really shoot? Did he go to another college after UNLV?
I mean why did Caleb Williams play the last half of the season if that’s the case? Not going to improve his draft stock during that time. You take that risk every time you take the field whether that game one or a bowl game. Idk, that’s not my mindset to not finish something I started, but I’m also not in that situation. Their agents and circles are probably a hard no, so I’m sure they are just taking that advice. It’s crazy what happened to Florida State… was it like 23 players oppting out of their bowl game? Idk man I know everyone wants “their bag” but it’s goes against the aspect of a team.
I guess the big thing at the end of the season is that it’s really hedging a bet, in a sense. You made it through … quit while you’re ahead … figuratively and literally …
Plus all the high draft prospects have insurance which certainly helps offset the financial risk. At least some if not all.
There's so much grey area with this whole set up now..
I guess I would ask your feelings on 'load management' in the NBA?
Or..
If NIL money makes these dudes professionals, wouldn't they then be obligated to play? You got money to play football here now you're choosing which games you want to play in?
There's going to be a reckoning with NIL money at some point.
This psuedo amateur status is nonsense.
(Wasn't asking combatively just conversational)
Pandora’s box was opened, like it or not. And with it will come a wide range of what’s fair, what’s not… and there will be validity to all the arguments whether you agree with the argument or not.
They’re adults, they’re over 18. To me, player criticisms were more reserved for the pros. But even before NIL, there was a shift from what’s best for the team to what’s best for me, hence the flood of transfers before even NIL. There was a shift that could be viewed as more “me”, more selfish …. It wasn’t about the team; the university, etc. As there was a shift in that power balance and I saw players really don’t care about the school the pledged to (and coaches don’t care for the players as they should either), they became more “adult” to me, they were making adult decisions. And now they are getting cash on top of a scholarship. The old rules were more clear, you get paid, you are no longer an amateur. That’s just the way it is. Now you can get paid and somehow you’re an amateur still. I don’t get it but we live in times when definitions and standards are made up on the fly.
So yes, I do view them as pros moreso now … they’re using the university and staff, the staff and the university are using them. Nobody is above criticism anymore. If they’re adults paid to do a job, they’re on the hook for criticism.
A patron at a food establishment can tell an 18 year old when they screwed up their order. I don’t see this as any different now.
Correct..That will be when this gets interesting. When boosters start wanting some say on their investment.
I think what will start happening is the NIL contracts will have a heavy laden bowl incentives attached to them. In order to make the last 500k you have to participate in the bowl game. Thats what I would do if I’m the booster/ company supplying these NIL deals
I agree that makes the most sense because fans are going to stop paying to see bowl games no one is going to pay to see 60 point victories. Then it hits pocket books and you will see those incentives.
People will stop making expensive road trips to see a bowl game. Probably less people watching on TV as well. Players treat these games as optional and so will the fans.. but fans pay the bills
If players want to be treated as "workforce", as the labor laws are being tested with this unlimited transfer case, then NIL contracts need to mirror professional contracts.
Penalties for transferring out, opting out of bowl games, incentives for staying with the team, etc.
Granted this will probably help the big teams more than UNLV, since the bags at these schools will likely be better and worth breaking contract. But, I can see it helping players at least wait for the bowl games to transfer.
Pro players can't break contracts and change teams every year due to labor laws.
But this ridiculous money will calm down. It just doesn't make financial sense. People with money do not like just throwing it away.
Penalties for transferring out, opting out of bowl games, incentives for staying with the team, etc.
Granted this will probably help the big teams more than UNLV, since the bags at these schools will likely be better and worth breaking contract. But, I can see it helping players at least wait for the bowl games to transfer.
Pro players can't break contracts and change teams every year due to labor laws.
But this ridiculous money will calm down. It just doesn't make financial sense. People with money do not like just throwing it away.
The NCAA has let things slide way out of control. As it stands, even if they wanted to, they can’t wrap their arms around it. It’s too big, they don’t have enough people (by choice).
I think this current mayhem will eventually lead to the severance … you’re in or you’re out, you matter or you don’t. And that may be the ultimate plan here.
But it’s really awful, it’s hard to sink two teeth into something when it’s as slippery as it is.
