If we are being honest with ourselves...

[Bullmastiff 1]

Neither the PAC nor the MWC is a place they thought they would be or want to be.

We as UNLV fans and by proxy MWC supporters can take shots at the PAC. What a disaster it's been for them so far. How they botched this roll out etc.

We can take shots at them and say You're the PAC in name only.

Thing is we can say Ha ha Memphis said no. You idiots! Ha ha you got stuck with UTEP bet you aren't happy about that! Bet that wasn't in your plans!

And while that might be partially true it works the other way.

We are the MWC in name only now as well. We do not have a conference any more than they do. In fact we're in a worse spot because we are chasing 2 spots not 1.

If we miss out on Texas State what does that say about how things are going for us? Or how the MWC is being viewed?

I get the angst. I get the enjoyment of seeing their plans fail. Watching them struggle. And I'll join in on it myself.

But pretending we're in some great spot right now is akin to whistling through the graveyard.

I want to see that whole house of cards crash over there. But we all keep throwing names like UTEP around as if they are just dying to join us. Are we so sure that they do? Are they are willing to pay an exit fee? Can they afford it? Can MWC afford to pay it?

I think the PAC made a number of moves assuming the best result. As fans we probably shouldn't make the same mistake. Whoever we end up grabbing we should be thankful because there are no guarantees we'll get who we prefer or anybody at all.

Point of this..Let's not get cocky.

 

[SilverSpoon]

Neither the PAC nor the MWC is a place they thought they would be or want to be.

We as UNLV fans and by proxy MWC supporters can take shots at the PAC. What a disaster it's been for them so far. How they botched this roll out etc.

We can take shots at them and say You're the PAC in name only.

Thing is we can say Ha ha Memphis said no. You idiots! Ha ha you got stuck with UTEP bet you aren't happy about that! Bet that wasn't in your plans!

And while that might be partially true it works the other way.

We are the MWC in name only now as well. We do not have a conference any more than they do. In fact we're in a worse spot because we are chasing 2 spots not 1.

If we miss out on Texas State what does that say about how things are going for us? Or how the MWC is being viewed?

I get the angst. I get the enjoyment of seeing their plans fail. Watching them struggle. And I'll join in on it myself.

But pretending we're in some great spot right now is akin to whistling through the graveyard.

I want to see that whole house of cards crash over there. But we all keep throwing names like UTEP around as if they are just dying to join us. Are we so sure that they do? Are they are willing to pay an exit fee? Can they afford it? Can MWC afford to pay it?

I think the PAC made a number of moves assuming the best result. As fans we probably shouldn't make the same mistake. Whoever we end up grabbing we should be thankful because there are no guarantees we'll get who we prefer or anybody at all.

Point of this..Let's not get cocky.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I'll allow it. 😀

 

[RebelinWA]

Neither the PAC nor the MWC is a place they thought they would be or want to be.

We as UNLV fans and by proxy MWC supporters can take shots at the PAC. What a disaster it's been for them so far. How they botched this roll out etc.

We can take shots at them and say You're the PAC in name only.

Thing is we can say Ha ha Memphis said no. You idiots! Ha ha you got stuck with UTEP bet you aren't happy about that! Bet that wasn't in your plans!

And while that might be partially true it works the other way.

We are the MWC in name only now as well. We do not have a conference any more than they do. In fact we're in a worse spot because we are chasing 2 spots not 1.

If we miss out on Texas State what does that say about how things are going for us? Or how the MWC is being viewed?

I get the angst. I get the enjoyment of seeing their plans fail. Watching them struggle. And I'll join in on it myself.

But pretending we're in some great spot right now is akin to whistling through the graveyard.

I want to see that whole house of cards crash over there. But we all keep throwing names like UTEP around as if they are just dying to join us. Are we so sure that they do? Are they are willing to pay an exit fee? Can they afford it? Can MWC afford to pay it?

I think the PAC made a number of moves assuming the best result. As fans we probably shouldn't make the same mistake. Whoever we end up grabbing we should be thankful because there are no guarantees we'll get who we prefer or anybody at all.

Point of this..Let's not get cocky.

Both conferences have drawn the battle lines and are in mutually assured destruction mode. Damn shame.

 

[oneepstein]

Oh no no no… if they end up with UTEP they’re getting trolled in epic fashion.

No we’re in a worse spot than we were and they are but f*** ‘em. It’s in our best interest to make fun of them for whatever turd they try to polish.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Oh no no no… if they end up with UTEP they’re getting trolled in epic fashion.

No we’re in a worse spot than we were and they are but f*** ‘em. It’s in our best interest to make fun of them for whatever turd they try to polish.

Well it's not like we aren't trying to wrap a turd in a tortilla and convince ourselves it's still a taco.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Both conferences have drawn the battle lines and are in mutually assured destruction mode. Damn shame.

Agree. Here's a thought. We both get to 8 teams and stop. Then, we of course play all teams in our leagues, and have a Pac vs MW Championship game, with the winner obviously being on the indie track to get the G5 playoff spot. Whaddya think?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Agree. Here's a thought. We both get to 8 teams and stop. Then, we of course play all teams in our leagues, and have a Pac vs MW Championship game, with the winner obviously being on the indie track to get the G5 playoff spot. Whaddya think?

I'd like to say great but we want to trade Reno for USU. Let you guys deal with that stink.

 

[oneepstein]

Well it's not like we aren't trying to wrap a turd in a tortilla and convince ourselves it's still a taco.

Obviously that would be a burrito ding dong.

 

[rebswin2]

Agree. Here's a thought. We both get to 8 teams and stop. Then, we of course play all teams in our leagues, and have a Pac vs MW Championship game, with the winner obviously being on the indie track to get the G5 playoff spot. Whaddya think?

That’s exactly what needs to happen. 7 conference games and 5 OOC to help pay the bills.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Agree. Here's a thought. We both get to 8 teams and stop. Then, we of course play all teams in our leagues, and have a Pac vs MW Championship game, with the winner obviously being on the indie track to get the G5 playoff spot. Whaddya think?

Or we let you wither on the "Metrics" vine... there's not a lot of love for a couple of your programs and anything we can do to make them suffer is to our infinite enjoyment... it's obvious that we'd much rather have not had this mess but you've made our program much more financially viable and given us the opportunity to shove it to a couple inflated conference member egos...

 

[Rebel1986]

Neither the PAC nor the MWC is a place they thought they would be or want to be.

We as UNLV fans and by proxy MWC supporters can take shots at the PAC. What a disaster it's been for them so far. How they botched this roll out etc.

We can take shots at them and say You're the PAC in name only.

Thing is we can say Ha ha Memphis said no. You idiots! Ha ha you got stuck with UTEP bet you aren't happy about that! Bet that wasn't in your plans!

And while that might be partially true it works the other way.

We are the MWC in name only now as well. We do not have a conference any more than they do. In fact we're in a worse spot because we are chasing 2 spots not 1.

If we miss out on Texas State what does that say about how things are going for us? Or how the MWC is being viewed?

I get the angst. I get the enjoyment of seeing their plans fail. Watching them struggle. And I'll join in on it myself.

But pretending we're in some great spot right now is akin to whistling through the graveyard.

I want to see that whole house of cards crash over there. But we all keep throwing names like UTEP around as if they are just dying to join us. Are we so sure that they do? Are they are willing to pay an exit fee? Can they afford it? Can MWC afford to pay it?

I think the PAC made a number of moves assuming the best result. As fans we probably shouldn't make the same mistake. Whoever we end up grabbing we should be thankful because there are no guarantees we'll get who we prefer or anybody at all.

Point of this..Let's not get cocky.

The difference is the MWC most likely was looking at a conference merger, while the PAC was sneaking around behind trying to cut the legs out from the MWC and pick who they wanted!

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

The difference is the MWC most likely was looking at a conference merger, while the PAC was sneaking around behind trying to cut the legs out from the MWC and pick who they wanted!

No I get all that.

Im not saying we shouldn't crap on them every chance we get. Just saying we aren't necessarily in much better position right now.

 

[Rebel1986]

No I get all that.

Im not saying we shouldn't crap on them every chance we get. Just saying we aren't necessarily in much better position right now.

Yes & no. Unless the PAC is paying all the exit fees, they MWC schools that are leaving have a big bill to pay while UNLV will get a financial windfall.

 

[Masked_rebel]

No I get all that.

Im not saying we shouldn't crap on them every chance we get. Just saying we aren't necessarily in much better position right now.

Yeah, UNLV (we) are... but collectively there's no replacement for G5 programs lost.. it's not like their was a similar level conference we could go pick from, both conferences are feeling that struggle because for all our crap talking about the AAC, they tied their members up that are worth keeping who might come close to replacement value.. Now it's a race for acceptable replacements before you get into the dangerous conversations of "How many FCS schools can we elevate".. for us who didn't want the conference torn apart to begin with, it's easier to accept survival by "best available" approach... For Pac St, it's who do we accept that we'd call dead weight behind their back but have to appear glad to have them...

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Yes & no. Unless the PAC is paying all the exit fees, they MWC schools that are leaving have a big bill to pay while UNLV will get a financial windfall.

I get all that.

There are just too many variables in place for me right now to claim any type of victory.

Look I'm going to relish every failure they encounter but I'm prepared for the fact we could hit some snags as well.

I'll dance on their graves once their in it.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Yeah, UNLV (we) are... but collectively there's no replacement for G5 programs lost.. it's not like their was a similar level conference we could go pick from, both conferences are feeling that struggle because for all our crap talking about the AAC, they tied their members up that are worth keeping who might come close to replacement value.. Now it's a race for acceptable replacements before you get into the dangerous conversations of "How many FCS schools can we elevate".. for us who didn't want the conference torn apart to begin with, it's easier to accept survival by "best available" approach... For Pac St, it's who do we accept that we'd call dead weight behind their back but have to appear glad to have them...

More or less what I was saying.

Neither of us are out of the deep water yet.

I'll laugh more once we get to 8..

I'll laugh harder if their still stuck at 7 fumbling around.

 

[RebNReno]

I don’t hate the PAC for trying. I think trying to assemble a “best of the rest” conference was the right idea. But they botched it so so bad.

UNLV may have botched it too. If we’re not in the Big12 in the next 6-8 years we failed big time by sticking around in this MWC.

The new MWC will be below the PAC12 on the pecking order. In general you’ll see the PAC will get more playoff teams, more NCAA bids, have better bowl games, better recruiting classes, better coaching salaries, better TV deals, and so on. We turned that down for an up front pile of cash. Short term it could be okay. Long term the MWC would be disastrous for us.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I don’t hate the PAC for trying. I think trying to assemble a “best of the rest” conference was the right idea. But they botched it so so bad.

UNLV may have botched it too. If we’re not in the Big12 in the next 6-8 years we failed big time by sticking around in this MWC.

The new MWC will be below the PAC12 on the pecking order. In general you’ll see the PAC will get more playoff teams, more NCAA bids, have better bowl games, better recruiting classes, better coaching salaries, better TV deals, and so on. We turned that down for an up front pile of cash. Short term it could be okay. Long term the MWC would be disastrous for us.

Big12 by 2030 or bust.

 

[Rebel1986]

I get all that.

There are just too many variables in place for me right now to claim any type of victory.

Look I'm going to relish every failure they encounter but I'm prepared for the fact we could hit some snags as well.

I'll dance on their graves once their in it.

In war there is never true victory, it is more along the line of coming out at the end with the least damage!

 

[utestream]

I don’t hate the PAC for trying. I think trying to assemble a “best of the rest” conference was the right idea. But they botched it so so bad.

UNLV may have botched it too. If we’re not in the Big12 in the next 6-8 years we failed big time by sticking around in this MWC.

The new MWC will be below the PAC12 on the pecking order. In general you’ll see the PAC will get more playoff teams, more NCAA bids, have better bowl games, better recruiting classes, better coaching salaries, better TV deals, and so on. We turned that down for an up front pile of cash. Short term it could be okay. Long term the MWC would be disastrous for us.

It was the right decision. You have one short term 6-8 year window left to get into a power league.

 

[dcut03]

Big12 by 2030 or bust.

I really would like Big 12 2026 ( at least an announcement)

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

I get all that.

There are just too many variables in place for me right now to claim any type of victory.

Look I'm going to relish every failure they encounter but I'm prepared for the fact we could hit some snags as well.

I'll dance on their graves once their in it.

Yeah it is hard to celebrate replacing USU, FSU, CSU, BSU, SDSU with UTEP and whoever and claim victory. We all lose them and us because of their treachery and idiocy.

 

[oneepstein]

I don’t hate the PAC for trying. I think trying to assemble a “best of the rest” conference was the right idea. But they botched it so so bad.

UNLV may have botched it too. If we’re not in the Big12 in the next 6-8 years we failed big time by sticking around in this MWC.

The new MWC will be below the PAC12 on the pecking order. In general you’ll see the PAC will get more playoff teams, more NCAA bids, have better bowl games, better recruiting classes, better coaching salaries, better TV deals, and so on. We turned that down for an up front pile of cash. Short term it could be okay. Long term the MWC would be disastrous for us.

Not disagreeing with you, but you mention “short term” and “long term” and I think TIME is an interesting and less thought about aspect in all of this.

The idea of short term versus long term always seems to be discussed or viewed, in general terms, as short term is negative and long term is positive. Not saying you’re doing that here, but it’s interesting.

In this case I think it’s interesting to define “short” and “long” and what makes them so. So how do we define them? You can’t just arbitrarily use a number like 2, 3, or 4 years to define “short” without having some meaning or implications attached. “Long” term is probably easier in that it is defined as anything after “short” term (sorry midterm).

So for me I would define “short” as all time from now until the next rounds of conference realignment shuffle begins and ends. Once the dust settles “long” term begins and is probably going to be that way for awhile.

Now assign a value to both terms… not only is the short term more valuable, it arguably holds ALL the value, because in the long term if you’re not in an AQ conference you’re basically in the minor leagues and none of it really matters anymore.

UNLV has given themselves a MUCH better chance at achieving AQ status by way of this deal than they would have had even if the PAC/MW merger had created the best G5 conference.

If a merger had happened or were to happen where do you think UNLV would sit in the pecking order of the conference? Where in the pecking order of expansion targets?

At best we’d be 4th or 5th in our own conference without the resources that many above us have to strengthen their position.

No, the conference isn’t pretty and isn’t gonna get prettier, and while the PAC may look better on paper right now, what are THEY gonna look like after the next wave of realignment?

All in.

 

[dcut03]

Not disagreeing with you, but you mention “short term” and “long term” and I think TIME is an interesting and less thought about aspect in all of this.

The idea of short term versus long term always seems to be discussed or viewed, in general terms, as short term is negative and long term is positive. Not saying you’re doing that here, but it’s interesting.

In this case I think it’s interesting to define “short” and “long” and what makes them so. So how do we define them? You can’t just arbitrarily use a number like 2, 3, or 4 years to define “short” without having some meaning or implications attached. “Long” term is probably easier in that it is defined as anything after “short” term (sorry midterm).

So for me I would define “short” as all time from now until the next rounds of conference realignment shuffle begins and ends. Once the dust settles “long” term begins and is probably going to be that way for awhile.

Now assign a value to both terms… not only is the short term more valuable, it arguably holds ALL the value, because in the long term if you’re not in an AQ conference you’re basically in the minor leagues and none of it really matters anymore.

UNLV has given themselves a MUCH better chance at achieving AQ status by way of this deal than they would have had even if the PAC/MW merger had created the best G5 conference.

If a merger had happened or were to happen where do you think UNLV would sit in the pecking order of the conference? Where in the pecking order of expansion targets?

At best we’d be 4th or 5th in our own conference without the resources that many above us have to strengthen their position.

No, the conference isn’t pretty and isn’t gonna get prettier, and while the PAC may look better on paper right now, what are THEY gonna look like after the next wave of realignment?

All in.

I agree, we are going all in and this move definitely sets us up for it. Going for the higher ceiling and to be in a position we all have dreamed of.

But if we swing and miss, we will be in the lesser conference competitively, with reduced annual income, with a bigger uphill battle to compete at the highest level. And unfortunately this is the more likely scenario.

 

[oneepstein]

I agree, we are going all in and this move definitely sets us up for it. Going for the higher ceiling and to be in a position we all have dreamed of.

But if we swing and miss, we will be in the lesser conference competitively, with reduced annual income, with a bigger uphill battle to compete at the highest level. And unfortunately this is the more likely scenario.

Yeah, I just think at that point EVERYONE who’s not in an AQ will be in purgatory forever with no hope, so it matters less.

 

[Mojo702]

Agree. Here's a thought. We both get to 8 teams and stop. Then, we of course play all teams in our leagues, and have a Pac vs MW Championship game, with the winner obviously being on the indie track to get the G5 playoff spot. Whaddya think?

Call it The Metrics Bowl

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Not disagreeing with you, but you mention “short term” and “long term” and I think TIME is an interesting and less thought about aspect in all of this.

The idea of short term versus long term always seems to be discussed or viewed, in general terms, as short term is negative and long term is positive. Not saying you’re doing that here, but it’s interesting.

In this case I think it’s interesting to define “short” and “long” and what makes them so. So how do we define them? You can’t just arbitrarily use a number like 2, 3, or 4 years to define “short” without having some meaning or implications attached. “Long” term is probably easier in that it is defined as anything after “short” term (sorry midterm).

So for me I would define “short” as all time from now until the next rounds of conference realignment shuffle begins and ends. Once the dust settles “long” term begins and is probably going to be that way for awhile.

Now assign a value to both terms… not only is the short term more valuable, it arguably holds ALL the value, because in the long term if you’re not in an AQ conference you’re basically in the minor leagues and none of it really matters anymore.

UNLV has given themselves a MUCH better chance at achieving AQ status by way of this deal than they would have had even if the PAC/MW merger had created the best G5 conference.

If a merger had happened or were to happen where do you think UNLV would sit in the pecking order of the conference? Where in the pecking order of expansion targets?

At best we’d be 4th or 5th in our own conference without the resources that many above us have to strengthen their position.

No, the conference isn’t pretty and isn’t gonna get prettier, and while the PAC may look better on paper right now, what are THEY gonna look like after the next wave of realignment?

All in.

Look I'd like to read all that. I'm sure there are some great points made.

But I'm currently researching Tarleton State and can't be bothered.

 

[TxRdKiller]

I don’t hate the PAC for trying. I think trying to assemble a “best of the rest” conference was the right idea. But they botched it so so bad.

UNLV may have botched it too. If we’re not in the Big12 in the next 6-8 years we failed big time by sticking around in this MWC.

The new MWC will be below the PAC12 on the pecking order. In general you’ll see the PAC will get more playoff teams, more NCAA bids, have better bowl games, better recruiting classes, better coaching salaries, better TV deals, and so on. We turned that down for an up front pile of cash. Short term it could be okay. Long term the MWC would be disastrous for us.

Disagree. If the MWC can win Texas and box out the PAC12 the MWC will have the advantage. Exactly who remains to be taken though is the question. Texas State is off the table. And not necessarily to the PAC12. Seems they are angling to get into the AAC which works just as well in boxing the PAC12 out of Texas. AAC schools have signed an agreement and are off the table. Sam Houston? Tarlton State?

The PAC12 is in a bind.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Disagree. If the MWC can win Texas and box out the PAC12 the MWC will have the advantage. Exactly who remains to be taken though is the question. Texas State is off the table. And not necessarily to the PAC12. Seems they are angling to get into the AAC which works just as well in boxing the PAC12 out of Texas. AAC schools have signed an agreement and are off the table. Sam Houston? Tarlton State?

The PAC12 is in a bind.

We both are really.

PAC might have some egg on their face if they are forced to circle back and settle for a Sac State.

If they take that lineup to a media partner and the best estimates they get are 6-7 million per it's a huge problem because Boise and the rest of the schools that jumped ship were reportedly sold on estimates rumored to be 10mil plus, it's a problem.

If some media partner is still willing to shell out 10 million plus then they'll be content with how things turned out.

Despite the egg on face.