Texas State....

[LocoRebel]

Why is the MWC in serious talks with Tarleton St?
Is Texas St official or did they back out?

There wqs never anything announced or that I saw even referenced a forthcoming announcement. Only one unknown source pushed anything forward that I saw.

But! I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bulk announcement of Texas schools. UTEP, Texas State, Tarleton State. Not sure whether they would try to grab Sam Houston. But I would anticipate an intended goal of sweeting the regional pot for a future UTSA invite.

 

[InZoneU]

Last I checked $11 mill and $25 mill equals $36 mill. Not far from $40 mill is it? Beats paying $18 mill to join another G5 conference with no TV contract. That’s more than a $54 million dollar swing using your numbers.

You get it. And last time I checked, we're all in the same G pool vying for the same playoff spot.

 

[oneepstein]

UNLV and the AFA get a signing bonus of $25-30 mill each. That’s reported everywhere. Then the remainder is distributed evenly amoung the 6 full members.

How much money UNLV and Air Force reportedly are receiving to stay in the MWC

Both UNLV and Air Force will reportedly receive between $25-30 million to stay in the Mountain West.

www.deseret.com

That was an estimate based on what was being reported at the time. When the MW agreement was released it don’t specify all numbers or where they come from.

The numbers were released as UNLV and AFA get 24.5%, Hawaii 5%, all others 11.5%. It was also reported that the five aside from UNLV and AFA would get their payments in one lump sum next year. UNLV and AFA will get larger payments next year and then smaller payments over the following 5-6 years.

Chris Murray from the RGJ reported that UNR would be getting their bonus of $10.3 million next year, which happens to be exactly 11.5% of $90 million, which happens to be the exit fees reported as being $18 million per team for the 5 that are leaving. So that lines up.

UNLV and AFA are reported to be getting initial payments of somewhere in the neighborhood of $14-$14.5 million dollar payments next year, and then smaller payments averaging about $1.5 per year for the next 5-6 years. 24.5% of $90 million is $22,050,000 - $14.5 million = $7,550,000 / 5 years = $1.51 million.

So it makes sense that the bonus payments are based on the exit fees.

What I don’t know is how any remaining fees collected (if any after any settlements) is to be distributed. Is it equal or will UNLV and AFA get the larger shares again?

 

[Meister_Rebel]

A tweet at the Texas St forum is saying Pac now targeting Texas St. Their President is making a push for the Pac.

 

[reagan21]

A tweet at the Texas St forum is saying Pac now targeting Texas St. Their President is making a push for the Pac.

It's going to happen.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

A tweet at the Texas St forum is saying Pac now targeting Texas St. Their President is making a push for the Pac.

Makes more sense from their perspective. Us taking the short term $$ will be a huge mistake.

 

[SilverSpoon]

This whole thing goes a different direction if it was not for the Utah State Diddlers.

 

[Gator 82]

Makes more sense from their perspective. Us taking the short term $$ will be a huge mistake.

If Memphis felt they were getting a $hitty deal from the PAC X, how much of a better deal could Texas St. be getting?

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

If Memphis felt they were getting a $hitty deal from the PAC X, how much of a better deal could Texas St. be getting?

They probably don't care about paying the departure fees.

 

[Couev]

Us taking the short term $$ will be a huge mistake.

I understand that sentiment, but I don't think it's a real world solution. Let's say that they offered us the same deal they offered to the AAC schools. 2.5 million towards exit fees and 100% media rights sharing. That means not only are we going to have to cover 15.5 million, but there will be 2 years where we don't get any media money from the MWC. So that's 25.5 million in the hole at a moment where we desperately need to extend Odom, may have to consider buying out KK's remaining year AND pay for a new MBB coach, and consider extending/giving a raise to Lindy for the WBB. To join a conference where we won't have full voting rights and won't be getting the CFP disbursement for at least 2 years as that was another rider on the PAC offer to Memphis. Instead we get an extra 25 million (10-14 upfront) minimal from the exit fees, plus an extra 1.8 million estimated from the CFP and another nearly 2 million a year from the redistributed shares of the traitors for the next 2 years.

That's a net difference of at least 60 million dollars over the next 2 years. I don't see how we can ever make that call.

Even if the PAC gives 10 million a year (which I don't think it will), and we get as low as say 6 million a year for our deal it would take 12-15 years before we broke even.

 

[unlove]

I understand that sentiment, but I don't think it's a real world solution. Let's say that they offered us the same deal they offered to the AAC schools. 2.5 million towards exit fees and 100% media rights sharing. That means not only are we going to have to cover 15.5 million, but there will be 2 years where we don't get any media money from the MWC. So that's 25.5 million in the hole at a moment where we desperately need to extend Odom, may have ton consider buying out KK's remaining year AND pay for a new MBB coach, and consider extending/giving a raise to Lindy for the WBB. To join a conference where we won't have full voting rights and won't be getting the CFP disbursement for at least 2 years as that was another rider on the PAC offer to Memphis. Instead we get an extra 25 million (10-14 upfront) minimal from the exit fees, plus an extra 1.8 million estimated from the CFP and another nearly 2 million a year from the redistributed shares of the traitors for the next 2 years.

That's a net difference of at least 60 million dollars over the next 2 years. I don't see how we can ever make that call.

Even if the PAC gives 10 million a year (which I don't think it will), and we get as low as say 6 million a year for our deal it would take 12-15 years before we broke even.

Add to that the fact that the athletic budget was already $20M-$35M in the red (I’ve varying reports on the actual number). Plus we get a free pass if invited to a P4. Yes the PAC is prettier but given our situation and the deal Harp was able to cut I think it’s the right move. Plus we could still end up in the PAC down the road if a P4 doesn’t pan out. Time will tell but tend to think it was a well throughout approach.

 

[LVRebel2000]

I understand that sentiment, but I don't think it's a real world solution. Let's say that they offered us the same deal they offered to the AAC schools. 2.5 million towards exit fees and 100% media rights sharing. That means not only are we going to have to cover 15.5 million, but there will be 2 years where we don't get any media money from the MWC. So that's 25.5 million in the hole at a moment where we desperately need to extend Odom, may have ton consider buying out KK's remaining year AND pay for a new MBB coach, and consider extending/giving a raise to Lindy for the WBB. To join a conference where we won't have full voting rights and won't be getting the CFP disbursement for at least 2 years as that was another rider on the PAC offer to Memphis. Instead we get an extra 25 million (10-14 upfront) minimal from the exit fees, plus an extra 1.8 million estimated from the CFP and another nearly 2 million a year from the redistributed shares of the traitors for the next 2 years.

That's a net difference of at least 60 million dollars over the next 2 years. I don't see how we can ever make that call.

Even if the PAC gives 10 million a year (which I don't think it will), and we get as low as say 6 million a year for our deal it would take 12-15 years before we broke even.

Do we know what sort of agreement UNLV has signed onto with the MWC? I read that there is no penalty for leaving to go to one of the autonomous 4 schools, but can't remember the deal if we went to the PAC in the future.

For discussion purposes, say UNLV pushes to get an invitation to the Big 12, but after 2 years, it's not looking likely. At that time, if UNLV works out a deal with the PAC, what are the costs at that time? By then, UNLV would have collected the $12-15 million lump sum, plus the extra 1.2-1.5 million per year on top of the current media deal.

I think the new deal says a GOR will be signed through 2031 or so, but is the buyout still expected to be the same, at around $18 million with a 2 year heads up?

 

[Couev]

but can't remember the deal if we went to the PAC in the future.

The only language I've seen on the agreement say "Power 4" conference. I don't know if that's someone's interpretation. If the ACC completely implodes the PAC could be a Power 4. I haven't seen any buyout figures for non-p4 departure, but I would assume they're going to be pretty prohibitive. you don't give someone 30+ dollars and then let them walk away with it in 2 years.

For the purposes of discussion, I just don't understand why we'd want to be a member of a poorly run organization who dropped the ball when they had the power to really do strong work while at the same time being willing to forego full voting rights in the future of the school as things stand right now.

To me it just smacks of chasing after a girl that only went on a date with you because her other plans fall through, but she is hotter than the girl you're dating now--so you go full simp and decide to change your whole personality on the chance she'll go out on another date with you. It just reeks of desperation with a TON of risk.

What if instead the ACC implodes and OSU and Wazzu get a last minute B12 invite--and we paid all that money and instead just get to be in the same conference?

 

[LVRebel2000]

The only language I've seen on the agreement say "Power 4" conference. I don't know if that's someone's interpretation. If the ACC completely implodes the PAC could be a Power 4. I haven't seen any buyout figures for non-p4 departure, but I would assume they're going to be pretty prohibitive. you don't give someone 30+ dollars and then let them walk away with it in 2 years.

For the purposes of discussion, I just don't understand why we'd want to be a member of a poorly run organization who dropped the ball when they had the power to really do strong work while at the same time being willing to forego full voting rights in the future of the school as things stand right now.

To me it just smacks of chasing after a girl that only went on a date with you because her other plans fall through, but she is hotter than the girl you're dating now--so you go full simp and decide to change your whole personality on the chance she'll go out on another date with you. It just reeks of desperation with a TON of risk.

What if instead the ACC implodes and OSU and Wazzu get a last minute B12 invite--and we paid all that money and instead just get to be in the same conference?

I'm just referring to down the road. The ship has sailed at the moment, but was wondering what sort of recourse there is if UNLV changes it's tune at a future date.

 

[Couev]

I'm just referring to down the road. The ship has sailed at the moment, but was wondering what sort of recourse there is if UNLV changes it's tune at a future date.

Yeah, nothing wrong with theorizing--and I don't think there's any question that right now the PAC is a better basketball conference, and is probably the better football conference top to bottom, though SDSU and USU are pretty awful this year (but hey, so is Air Force).

 

[LocoRebel]

I think Texas State joins the Pac 12 if they don't join MWC

Edit: fixed broken link

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

View embedded media

I think Texas State joins the Pac 12 if they don't join MWC

Edit: fixed broken link

So like when we chuckled at the PAC for not getting Memphis are they laughing at our failure to aquire Texas State?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Yeah, nothing wrong with theorizing--and I don't think there's any question that right now the PAC is a better basketball conference, and is probably the better football conference top to bottom, though SDSU and USU are pretty awful this year (but hey, so is Air Force).

SDSU is bad that year but let's talk potential.

What remaining teams in the MWC would you say have the ability to reach the levels of SDSU under Rocky Long.

I don't think there is one outside of UNLV.

 

[dcut03]

A couple points about all of this.

If we decided to join the PAC we would have effectively cut ourselves off from the MW media payouts. That can be tough to swallow.
The weird factor with UNLV specifically is our coach, who is likely going to be sought after this season.

By signing the agreement, we can use the immediate money to extend him and more importantly jack up his buyout. That is what I hope happens. So that does make the UNLV situation unique compared to other MW schools.
But joining the PAC with promises to increase his contract could work. Or try to use booster support to keep things afloat for the next 2 seasons. Not sure where Barry's head is at. How much he rather be at this level, full autonomy, good not ludicrous money, and honestly better shot at the playoff than most P4 jobs. But we likely can not extend him right now if we stopped our payouts from leaving.

But there is another thing worth mentioning.
We could have NOT signed the agreement or signed with the PAC right away. Our stock and value is increasing by the minute. Sure it could stop at any time with our first loss. But in general it will increase with our schedule and our Friday games. Our TV numbers will crush this year.

In the meantime we could be playing hardball with the PAC instead of shutting the door on them to help with any fees. While also making regular calls to the Big 12. Basically we could have done exactly what Memphis did.

And about those fees. I will be shocked if it stays at 18 at the end of the day. And remember those are not due until we actually leave, and often can be paid off over time ( the AAC teams that just left are paying 3.8 per year until they get to their NEGOTIATED 18 mil from over 27.5 mil).

But the most likely number is 11 million, which will be withheld over the next 2 seasons from leaving now. And again THAT will likely be negotiated down some as well.

But I do think if we are truly shooting for the Big 12, our path is probably the best by getting paid up front, as long as we secure Odom and give us that increased buyout clause. That way we can still shoot for the moon with another P4 level coach by offering a p4 level salary.

This is still risky, and I don't hate our path. I love it in a weird way.

But the PAC 12 will be better. Better in football, basketball, and payouts. By a significant amount. And they wanted us, and really needed us for a while. Did we shut the door too soon. My rational brain says yes.

 

[dcut03]

As for leaving for the PAC or the AAC in the future?
This pretty much shuts the door.
Sure we could leave, but our exit fees are going to be ridiculous. If you think they are bad now, imagine a brand new contract for 5 years instead of 2, with all of our extra bonuses tacked on. It is not going to get better.
Very unlikely to happen. The PAC will offer better money but they will not be able to help enough to make it possible for us.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

A couple points about all of this.

By joining the PAC we effective cut ourselves off from the MW media payouts. That can be tough to swallow.
The weird factor with UNLV specifically is our coach, who is likely going to be sought after this season.
We could use the immediate money to extend him and more importantly jack up his buyout. That is what I hope happens. oO that does make the UNLV situation unique.
But joining the PAC with promises to increase his contract could work. Or try to use booster support to keep things afloat for the next 2 seasons. Not sure where Barry's head is at. How much he rather be at this level, full autonomy, good not ludicrous money, and honestly better shot at the playoff than most P4 jobs. But we likely can not extend him right now if we stop our payouts.

But there is another thing worth mentioning.
We could have NOT signed the agreement. Our stock and value is increasing by the minute. Sure it could stop at any time with our first loss. But in general it will increase with our schedule and our Friday games. Our TV numbers will crush this year.

In the meantime we could be playing hardball with the PAC instead of shutting the door on them to help with any fees. While also making regular calls to the Big 12. Basically we could have done exactly what Memphis did.

And about those fees. I will be shocked if it stays at 18 at the end of the day. And remember those are not due until we actually leave, and often can be paid off over time ( the AAC teams that just left are paying 3.8 per year until they get to their NEGOTIATED 18 mil from over 27.5 mil).

But the most likely number is 11 million, which will be withheld over the next 2 seasons from leaving now. And again THAT will likely be negotiated down some as well.

But I do think if we are truly shooting for the Big 12, our path is probably the best by getting paid up front, as long as we secure Odom and give us that increased buyout clause. That way we can still shoot for the moon with another P4 level coach by offering a p4 level salary.

This is still risky, and I don't hate our path. I love it in a weird way.

But the PAC 12 will be better. Better in football, basketball, and payouts. By a significant amount. And they wanted us, and really needed us for a while. Did we shut the door too soon. My rational brain says yes.

I don't think PAC is option though. Our out was to explore P4 opportunities.

(Maybe Im reading your post wrong and what it is implying)

 

[dcut03]

I don't think PAC is option though. Our out was to explore P4 opportunities.

(Maybe Im reading your post wrong and what it is implying)

I was talking about the what if we didn't sign the agreement. Or If we signed with the PAC. I am not talking about now.
The PAC is most definitely not an option now. For sure.

I changed my post, hopefully that makes it more clear

 

[Rosegreen1]

The PAC isn’t an automatic playoff conference, though it pretends it is. We would have to fork up millions to make a move in exchange for zero power and leverage to join a very mediocre version of the PAC12.

It would have been more appealing had they not lowballed the AAC and their media footprint isn’t big at all. It is a regional conference that just added a basketball program to be full participant in media revenue. I don’t foresee the 10-15 million payout they claimed in a tv deal, maybe through ridiculous incentives but I don’t see how a media exec gets jazzed over the geographic footprint the PAC currently has.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I was talking about the what if we didn't sign the agreement. Or If we signed with the PAC. I am not talking about now.
The PAC is most definitely not an option now. For sure.

I changed my post, hopefully that makes it more clear

It did

 

[dcut03]

The PAC isn’t an automatic playoff conference, though it pretends it is. We would have to fork up millions to make a move in exchange for zero power and leverage to join a very mediocre version of the PAC12.

It would have been more appealing had they not lowballed the AAC and their media footprint isn’t big at all. It is a regional conference that just added a basketball program to be full participant in media revenue. I don’t foresee the 10-15 million payout they claimed in a tv deal, maybe through ridiculous incentives but I don’t see how a media exec gets jazzed over the geographic footprint the PAC currently has.

But would we?
If we joined the PAC we are likely looking at an 8-9 mill per year payout perhaps even more. To play in a G5 conference that is better in every way.
We could payoff our exit fees over time, while effectively netting the same money we would be getting by staying, even with the additional payouts.
We wouldn't get the 14 up front, and we would be shorting ourselves 11 million over the next 2 seasons.
But after paying off our fees in a few years we could be making double in a better, but still G5 conference.

It would make jumping to the Big 12 tougher, that is really the biggest drawback. They would not give us a free pass. And the exit fees would be steep.

 

[TimothyC3]

I understand that sentiment, but I don't think it's a real world solution. Let's say that they offered us the same deal they offered to the AAC schools. 2.5 million towards exit fees and 100% media rights sharing. That means not only are we going to have to cover 15.5 million, but there will be 2 years where we don't get any media money from the MWC. So that's 25.5 million in the hole at a moment where we desperately need to extend Odom, may have to consider buying out KK's remaining year AND pay for a new MBB coach, and consider extending/giving a raise to Lindy for the WBB. To join a conference where we won't have full voting rights and won't be getting the CFP disbursement for at least 2 years as that was another rider on the PAC offer to Memphis. Instead we get an extra 25 million (10-14 upfront) minimal from the exit fees, plus an extra 1.8 million estimated from the CFP and another nearly 2 million a year from the redistributed shares of the traitors for the next 2 years.

That's a net difference of at least 60 million dollars over the next 2 years. I don't see how we can ever make that call.

Even if the PAC gives 10 million a year (which I don't think it will), and we get as low as say 6 million a year for our deal it would take 12-15 years before we broke even.

Great take. I didn't even consider the 2 years where UNLV fails to receive media revenue. The net difference of at least $60 mill is huge and the 12-15 year break even point is real.

 

[Masked_rebel]

That's still assuming that the Pac 12 6/7 are out offering the same terms to every team that gets invited. I also think getting locked in the way moving to the Pac would do is significant. It effectively ends our upward mobility. No way the university fronts 18 million to leave and then in 5 years ups 30 million.
We're now just renting this conference. 3-5 years to get $$, win, and get into Big 12... if that doesn't work, we get into Pac 12 anyways.

 

[Couev]

SDSU is bad that year but let's talk potential.

What remaining teams in the MWC would you say have the ability to reach the levels of SDSU under Rocky Long.

I don't think there is one outside of UNLV.

You say potential, but then you want to reference a guy that's been gone for 6 years. You're already asking me to do all the uphill pedaling in your comparison. But that's okay.

Troy Calhoun at AFA in a 9 year period (Rocky Long Tenure Length) had 10 wins per season at the same clip more recently than SDSU, and if you lower the threshold to 9 wins he actually outperformed Long in 9 seasons. The problem with the academies though is that there is a problem sustaining talent so he had more sub .500 seasons. But there's at least one guy that's done it and more recently than any sustained success at SDSU--so you should be able to at least think of one with a little imagination!

Do I have to come up with someone better than Sonny Lubick or Chris Peterson now? Gary Patterson? Lavell Edwards?

I just think that the gap between how the breakaway schools have performed in the last 10 years and how the remaining schools is a little closer than some people care to admit.

Boise has been the class of the conference for a long time now. I don't think anyone left in the MWC compares to their pedigree and track record. I really think they're better than Wazzu and OSU as far as pedigree and consistancy.

Fresno I would probably put at tier 2 along with UNLV and Air Force. I do think that getting DeBoer and Tedford back to back helped them stay relevant--but I think they're on a downward trend now. I think Skipper will put up ~.500 numbers. I think UNLV is also recently good but will only maintain that momentum if we hold onto Odom.

Wyoming has been consitantly better than CSU over the last 10 years. Wyoming has had a winning record 7 out of the last 10 years (though it looks like the new staff might struggle). CSU's last winning season was 2017 and has 3 winning season in the last 10. CSU is much closer recently to Hawaiiand looking at a 10 year period even UNR is better.

SJSU and Utah State both have 3 winning season in their last 10. SJSU has 2 MWC championships vs 1 for USU. Utah State's last winning record was 2021, SJSU was last year. I'd give the slight nod to SJSU.

The biggest difference is how much better Wazzu and OSU are than our next tier--which is probably UNR and Hawai'i--but lets not pretend like Oregon State is a juggernaut. 3 winning season in the last 10 in the PAC and they lost the coach that had all 3. Wazzu's history is better though Dickert hasn't shown that he can keep a ship heading in the right direction, and they've had a bit of a collapse after the first 4 games both of his seasons.

I think that the PAC is going to be a better football conference regardless because they got rid of the worst parts of the MWC. With Gonzaga they're going to be probably one of the top 7 basketball conferences. Assuming they can get another football school and don't just fold, that is. The dead weight of the MWC is a lot to carry, but lots of people have still had success despite that, and have had several schools get promoted to P4 conferences despite the dead weight.

 

[Couev]

But the PAC 12 will be better. Better in football, basketball, and payouts. By a significant amount. And they wanted us, and really needed us for a while. Did we shut the door too soon. My rational brain says yes.

I think if they would have included us with the breakaway 4 initially, my rational brain would agree with you. but we were the 7th choice at best and would be getting a worse deal than the other teams we came over with. We also would have to explain to the board of regents why we needed to go another 8 figures in debt on the hope that we break even for that investment in 10+ years.

And that's not even including the things like not getting the CFP disbursement, not getting any media money for 2 years (the MWC contract is brutal for that), and not getting equal voting representation on the conference board. Maybe it's hubris, but that's a little too much of my pride to swallow.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

You say potential, but then you want to reference a guy that's been gone for 6 years. You're already asking me to do all the uphill pedaling in your comparison. But that's okay.

Troy Calhoun at AFA in a 9 year period (Rocky Long Tenure Length) had 10 wins per season at the same clip more recently than SDSU, and if you lower the threshold to 9 wins he actually outperformed Long in 9 seasons. The problem with the academies though is that there is a problem sustaining talent so he had more sub .500 seasons. But there's at least one guy that's done it and more recently than any sustained success at SDSU--so you should be able to at least think of one with a little imagination!

Do I have to come up with someone better than Sonny Lubick or Chris Peterson now? Gary Patterson? Lavell Edwards?

I just think that the gap between how the breakaway schools have performed in the last 10 years and how the remaining schools is a little closer than some people care to admit.

Boise has been the class of the conference for a long time now. I don't think anyone left in the MWC compares to their pedigree and track record. I really think they're better than Wazzu and OSU as far as pedigree and consistancy.

Fresno I would probably put at tier 2 along with UNLV and Air Force. I do think that getting DeBoer and Tedford back to back helped them stay relevant--but I think they're on a downward trend now. I think Skipper will put up ~.500 numbers. I think UNLV is also recently good but will only maintain that momentum if we hold onto Odom.

Wyoming has been consitantly better than CSU over the last 10 years. Wyoming has had a winning record 7 out of the last 10 years (though it looks like the new staff might struggle). CSU's last winning season was 2017 and has 3 winning season in the last 10. CSU is much closer recently to Hawaiiand looking at a 10 year period even UNR is better.

SJSU and Utah State both have 3 winning season in their last 10. SJSU has 2 MWC championships vs 1 for USU. Utah State's last winning record was 2021, SJSU was last year. I'd give the slight nod to SJSU.

The biggest difference is how much better Wazzu and OSU are than our next tier--which is probably UNR and Hawai'i--but lets not pretend like Oregon State is a juggernaut. 3 winning season in the last 10 in the PAC and they lost the coach that had all 3. Wazzu's history is better though Dickert hasn't shown that he can keep a ship heading in the right direction, and they've had a bit of a collapse after the first 4 games both of his seasons.

I think that the PAC is going to be a better football conference regardless because they got rid of the worst parts of the MWC. With Gonzaga they're going to be probably one of the top 7 basketball conferences. Assuming they can get another football school and don't just fold, that is. The dead weight of the MWC is a lot to carry, but lots of people have still had success despite that, and have had several schools get promoted to P4 conferences despite the dead weight.

I'll ask it a different way. (Saying you in general terms not you specifically here)

As a coach you have your pick of the litter.

Every team wants your services.

UNLV and Boise are not options.

List them in order what job you would want.

There's no way you're picking any of the MWC schools remaining over SDSU or Fresno.

AFA has been really solid but it has limitations because of NIL and portal. You can win at a decent level but CFP? Probably not.

Take SDSU and Fresno out.

USU and CSU vs remaining jobs in MWC. I'd still be hard pressed to say I'd pick any remaing MWC teams over them, based on potential of the programs.

In terms of ceilings for PAC additions vs MWC left overs I don't think it's very close.

 

[dcut03]

I think if they would have included us with the breakaway 4 initially, my rational brain would agree with you. but we were the 7th choice at best and would be getting a worse deal than the other teams we came over with. We also would have to explain to the board of regents why we needed to go another 8 figures in debt on the hope that we break even for that investment in 10+ years.

And that's not even including the things like not getting the CFP disbursement, not getting any media money for 2 years (the MWC contract is brutal for that), and not getting equal voting representation on the conference board. Maybe it's hubris, but that's a little too much of my pride to swallow.

A worse deal?
We don't kmow what they offered. We have heard they will help the original 4 but not by how much. I don't think they know either. Because with the lawsuit and before negotiations for exit fees the bottom line is unknown. I don't believe that they offered a lesser cit of annual revenue. Not us. USU? Maybe. Sac state? Absolutely.
I agree that perhaps the initial offer of exit fee help was lower for us. That is safe to say. My point above was that we waited a week( if that) then made a decision. We could have just waited. In a way we were smart to not agree to a non p4 conference in the first 3rd of a potentially historic season. Maybe the MW's offer was now or else and we were pushed into a corner.
We did have a lot of leverage with 3 conferences wanting us apparently. Did we take full advantage of that?
Again i don't hate the path we took, but not because I think the Pac will be our equals and a joke. They won't be. Other than SDSU and maybe Boise i think all schools joining made the best possible decision they could have made

 

[R3belnation]

I don't know if is true of not.

View embedded media

Texas State appears to have ceased discussion with the MWC and committed to staying in conference.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Go hostile takeover.

Go after WKU and La Tech. WKU has been pretty good last 5 years. La Tech as travel partner. Rather have La Tech vs NMSU I think.

Be done with it.

If Tarleton State is being considered it doesn't feel like things are going great to be honest.

 

[dcut03]

That's still assuming that the Pac 12 6/7 are out offering the same terms to every team that gets invited. I also think getting locked in the way moving to the Pac would do is significant. It effectively ends our upward mobility. No way the university fronts 18 million to leave and then in 5 years ups 30 million.
We're now just renting this conference. 3-5 years to get $$, win, and get into Big 12... if that doesn't work, we get into Pac 12 anyways.

The PAC 12 n 6 years maybe. Can't afford to any time before that.
Again the money we would likely lose is the 11 mill now in the next 2 years. Maybe we can negotiate a portion of that back like the other conferences that just did the same.
So I agree the PAC would kill the Big 12 for a while. But staying kills the PAC 12 for a while.
The difference is the 14 or so mill up front and the free pass. But that difference only really matters of that free pass pays off.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

The PAC 12 n 6 years maybe. Can't afford to any time before that.
Again the money we would likely lose is the 11 mill now in the next 2 years. Maybe we can negotiate a portion of that back like the other conferences that just did the same.
So I agree the PAC would kill the Big 12 for a while. But staying kills the PAC 12 for a while.
The difference is the 14 or so mill up front and the free pass. But that difference only really matters of that free pass pays off.

Do you mind not posting. I'm doing a Google search on Tarleton State!

 

[R3belnation]

Do you mind not posting. I'm doing a Google search on Tarleton State!

Texas State ends MWC talks, stays in Sun Belt

Texas State's talks with the Mountain West Conference have ended, with the school informing the Sun Belt Conference that it won't be leaving after the Bobcats program received a verbal offer over the weekend.

www.espn.com

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Texas State ends MWC talks, stays in Sun Belt

Texas State's talks with the Mountain West Conference have ended, with the school informing the Sun Belt Conference that it won't be leaving after the Bobcats program received a verbal offer over the weekend.

www.espn.com

Yeah that news blows..

 

[saulpaul21]

One thing is clear. With mwc and pac each adding a school, the chance for the pac12 to realize they overplayed their hand and screwed up 2 conferences, declare peace, and do a reverse merger is up in smoke.

 

[LocoRebel]

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

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We were rejected by Texas State.

A school that probably wouldn't have been on the MWC radar two years ago.

Bit of a gut punch.