POLL: What would you consider a successful first season?
- Thread starter Bullmastiff 1
- Start date
I will just answer with "closer losses". I don't want to get blown out or see quitting. We could win 2 games and, if the effort is there, I consider the season a success. I don't think we'll get close to 4-5 so "improvement" is what I'm looking for.
I chose 3-4 wins. The reason being I expect UNLV to beat Idaho State at home. So, provided they lose the other 3 OOC games, that means going at least 2-6 in MWC to finish with 3 wins. I'd like to think the team will be able to get at least 2 wins in the MWC.
I love the enthusiasm but the schedule is brutal especially early on. Best case scenario they probably go 2-2 in their first four.
In conference at home we have...I'll list my prediction next to each one.
Boise State (L)
Hawaii (W)
San Diego State (L)
San Jose State (W)
You could flip flop the San Diego State and San Jose State. I think we can get one of those games but probably not both.
Away we have
Colorado State (L) They had a tough year recruiting but return some pretty decent talent.
Wyoming (L) Always tough to travel there.
Fresno State (L) I know we beat them last year here but they are tough at home.
Nevada Reno (L) As much as I would love to put W I have to be realistic. That said, of these four games this would be the one I think we could get. Nevada Reno lost a 3 year starter at QB and that is always tough to replace.
I think best case scenario we get to 5 wins worst case I think we hit 3 wins. I do think however that this team will be more competitive.
In conference at home we have...I'll list my prediction next to each one.
Boise State (L)
Hawaii (W)
San Diego State (L)
San Jose State (W)
You could flip flop the San Diego State and San Jose State. I think we can get one of those games but probably not both.
Away we have
Colorado State (L) They had a tough year recruiting but return some pretty decent talent.
Wyoming (L) Always tough to travel there.
Fresno State (L) I know we beat them last year here but they are tough at home.
Nevada Reno (L) As much as I would love to put W I have to be realistic. That said, of these four games this would be the one I think we could get. Nevada Reno lost a 3 year starter at QB and that is always tough to replace.
I think best case scenario we get to 5 wins worst case I think we hit 3 wins. I do think however that this team will be more competitive.
In conference I see this team going 3-1 at home, Boise being the loss, and I see them going 2-2 on the road. I'm sure we'll beat Reno and I'm feeling pretty good about Fresno, Wyoming and CSU I don't have a feel for as we haven't played them in a couple years. As Catmster said, this team should've been better last year and I'm looking for some good things this year. Add Idaho State and there's 6 wins, my wildcard will be NIU for possible 7 wins. I'm optimistic
I hope you are right. I just think there are still going to be growing pains. I agree this team should have been better than it was last year..
I don't think it was stupid, with last year's schedule I thought we had 6 sure wins and 4 possibles. Obviously by week 6 the season was pretty much done. I see, or I'm hoping for, a big improvement in the OLine play this year which will be key. In the time we've been here I've seen no improvement in that area, and couple that with the TE coaching our QB's have been under way too much pressure and our running game suffered. This in turn contributed mightily to the defense just being on the field too much. My optimism comes from our kids now being equally prepared to compete with teams week in and week out. From what I've heard so far I feel better about it every week
Not to make excuses for the poor O-Line play last year, but we did lose arguably our 2nd best offensive linemen in Cameron Jefferson when he left to go to Arkansas. I think the shuffling around of guys really hurt the overall performance of the line. It is never a good sign when you move your starting left tackle inside to guard. Couple that with one guy under performing and it was a recipe for disaster. I will say this though the offensive line play under Hauck was pretty solid during his tenure in my opinion. We were able to run the ball pretty well for most of his time here with last year being the exception.
I agree 100% about the defense being on the field way to long. In the bowl season we were not great on defense by any stretch but there were a number of games that year when the defense would come up with a big stop or hold a team to three late in the game. Those stops lead to a couple of wins. Last season the defense was on the field so much due to 3 and outs and turnovers that they simply had no gas in the tank late in games,
I think the addition of O'Dell to the coaching staff is a big plus. With a coach dedicated to just the QBs I think we will seen some improvement out of Decker this year. Not only decision making but mechanics etc.
I truly thought we would be a 7-6 team last year (we added a 13th game) or at worst 6-7 and just miss out on a bowl. I never anticipated the debacle that last season turned into. It really go harder and harder to watch as the season wore on.
One thing that still baffles me about last season was how easily we scored on our first or second drives of games. Midway through the first quarter we would be up 10-0 or 10-3 and then the offense would just fall apart.
I agree 100% about the defense being on the field way to long. In the bowl season we were not great on defense by any stretch but there were a number of games that year when the defense would come up with a big stop or hold a team to three late in the game. Those stops lead to a couple of wins. Last season the defense was on the field so much due to 3 and outs and turnovers that they simply had no gas in the tank late in games,
I think the addition of O'Dell to the coaching staff is a big plus. With a coach dedicated to just the QBs I think we will seen some improvement out of Decker this year. Not only decision making but mechanics etc.
I truly thought we would be a 7-6 team last year (we added a 13th game) or at worst 6-7 and just miss out on a bowl. I never anticipated the debacle that last season turned into. It really go harder and harder to watch as the season wore on.
One thing that still baffles me about last season was how easily we scored on our first or second drives of games. Midway through the first quarter we would be up 10-0 or 10-3 and then the offense would just fall apart.
I'm not so sure I agree with the oline play being that solid. I think Cornett made up for some deficiencies but I also remember some FCS teams that we couldn't get push on for our running game. I think Northern Colorado handled them last year. Look back to Sherry, he got the crap beat out of him so much that he never recovered his confidence, and the same happened to a more mobile Decker this year. I think we had the talent on the oline, I don't think that talent was honed, improved and utilized
Outside of the obvious Decker, Palandech, Thomson battle at QB this spring, I am most looking forward to watching Garrison with the O Line and Seumalo with the D Line.
These two groups have the most to prove (improve) on from last year and I think (hope) that new coaching can tap into some of the current rosters true potential.
These two groups have the most to prove (improve) on from last year and I think (hope) that new coaching can tap into some of the current rosters true potential.
This is an updated guess to the potential spring depth chart and incoming prospects below
Offense
QB Blake Decker 6'2 205 sr Kurt Palendech 6'2 190 jr/Kevin Thomson 6'1 190 fr
RB Keith Whitely 5'9 185 jr George Naufahu 6'0 215 sr/Henry Jussila 5'9 180 soph/Jamal Overton 5'9 205 Jr
FB David Greene 6'0 210 sr Marc Phillippi 5'10 220 soph
WR Devonte Boyd 6'1 175 soph Tim Hough 5'11 175 fr/Jay Mitchell 5'8 180 soph
WR Anthony Williams 5'11 190 sr Kendahl Keys 6'3 200 soph
TE Jake Phillips 6'6 255 sr Andrew Price 6'6 250 jr/Kyle Anderson 6'3 230 soph
LT Kyle Saxelid 6'7 270 soph Phillip Haynes 6'4 270 fr
LG Nick Gstrein 6'4 295 sr Eric Noone 6'2 300 jr/Patrick Carroll 6'5 310 jr
C J'Ondray Sanders 6'4 270 soph Will Kreitler 6'0 290 jr
RG Ron Scoggins 6'3 335 sr Gavin Peterson 6'3 300 fr/Aleks Vekic 6'5 310 jr
RT Andrew Oberg 6'7 295 sr Patrick Carroll 6'5 310 jr/Tom Clarkson 6'6 290 Jr
Defense
DE Najee Johnson 6'4 220 sr Jacobie Russell 6'4 230 soph/Joe Salazar 6'4 220
DT Mike Hughes 6'2 300 soph Charles Howard 6'4 330 Jr/Tuli Fakauho 6'1 300 Sr
DT Sonny Sanitoa 6'3 260 sr Antonio Zepeda 6'6 265 soph/Tui Maloata 6'3 275 Jr
DE Dominic Baldwin 6'5 240 jr Jeremiah Valoaga 6'6 260 sr
OLB Tau Lotulelei 6'1 220 jr Matt Lea 5'10 210 soph/Elexious Perkins 6'0 215 Sr
ILB Ryan McAleenan 6'2 230 sr Iggy Porchia 6'2 225/Jeremiah Tauala
OLB Blake Richmond 6'3 190 sr Trent Langham 6'2 210 jr/Billy Murphy 6'0 200 fr
CB Tory McTyer 6'0 180 jr Fred Wilson 6'0 175 sr
CB Brandon Baker 6'0 175 sr Dominique Fenstermacher 5'10 170 fr
S Kenny Keys 6'4 190 sr Troy Hawthorne 6'3 210 jr
S Peni Vea 6'1 200 sr Jonavaughn Williams 6'0 190
Incoming Players
QB Kurt Palendech 6'2 190 jr
142/237 59% 1634 yards 17 td 5 in
QB Dalton Sneed 6'0 180
217/339 64% 3565 yards 28 tds 13 int
RB Lexington Thomas 5'9 175
95 car 689 yards 7.2 avg 9 tds
RB Xzavier Campbell 5'11 216
119 car 805 yards 6.7 avg 16 tds
WR Brandon Presley 6'0 170
88 rec 1467 yards 16.7 avg 21 tds
WR Darren Woods 6'0 200
54 rec 689 yards 12.8 avg 5 tds
OT Nathan Jacobson 6'5 250
5.3 40 4.84 shuttle 26 vj
OG Justin Polu 6'4 300
5.69 40 5.13 shuttle 22 vj 16 reps
OG Alex Neale 6'3 290
5.4 40 4.7 shuttle 22 vj
OC Will Kreitler 6'0 270
DE/LB Gabe McCoy 6'1 200
4.88 40 4.47 shuttle 29 vj
57 tackles 18 sacks
DT Melvin Johnson 6'4 250
5.03 40 5.0 shuttle 29 vj
DT Salanoa-Alo Wily 6'0 265
5.20 40 4.63 shuttle 23 vj
33 tackles 10 sacks
DE Mark Finua 6'3 230
16 tackles 2 tfl
CB Jay'Onn Myles 5'8 175
33 tackles 3 int
CB Jericho Flowers 5'10 155
31 tackles 1 int
S Evan Austrie 6'0 180
50 tackles 5 int
S/WR Javin White 6'2 180
17 rec 407 yards 23.9 avg 8 tds
This post was edited on 2/13 4:17 PM by willlevi
I think it is unrealistic to expect that by adding Tony Sanchez UNLV will win 6+ games. We are talking about a person who has never been a Head Coach in college. And, he is taking over a program at which 7-6 with a bowl loss in 2013 was one of the best seasons in program history at the 1A/FBS level.
It's great to have optimism. It's great to have high hopes. It's also important to be realistic. At the very least, please be willing to be 100% behind Sanchez and this team if they win only 2-3 games in 2015. Especially if the team is much more competitive, and there are noticeable improvements to facilities.
Turning around the fortunes of UNLV football is going to be alot like a child learning to walk. And, before one walks, you first learn how to crawl. Hopefully, UNLV football is in the beginning stages of learning how to crawl.
The only game in the OOC schedule in which UNLV will not be an underdog of at least 10 or more points is Idaho State. The most realistic chance at an OOC win other than Idaho State is at Northern Illinois, in the first game of the season. NIU is a very good program. NIU is coming off an 11-3 season, in which they won the MAC West and also the MAC Championship game. Also won on the road at Northwestern.
NIU was 12-2 in 2013 and MAC West Champions. They won at Purdue and at Iowa.
12-2 in 2012...MAC West Champions....won the MAC Title Game.... played in the Orange Bowl
11-3 in 2011... MAC West Champs... won MAC Title game... beat Arkansas State in GoDaddy.com Bowl
11-3 in 2010... MAC West Champions...beat Fresno State in Humanitarian Bowl...won at Minnesota
NIU is 57-13 in the last 5 seasons. Played in a bowl game each of those seasons. Played in a BCS Bowl in the 2012 season. Won 48-34 last year at UNLV, and playing at NIU in the 1st game of the season will be the best opportunity UNLV has for a win in the 3 OOC games against FBS teams.
UNLV has won 15 games in the past 5 years, and 7 of those wins came in 2013. I do not even want to put the total number of games lost in the past 5 seasons.
Before people start telling me that the MAC is a lousy FBS conference and that Northwestern, Iowa and Purdue are not very good, remember that UNLV has gone 2-2 the past 4 years against FCS teams. And, this past year, they beat Northern Colorado 13-12. Of the 4 FCS teams that UNLV played each of the past 4 years, NONE made the FCS playoffs. So, with UNLV, we are talking about a program that has difficulty beating mediocre FCS teams at home, let alone being able to beat a school from a "power 5" conference, even the worst of the worst from the "power 5" conferences.
The road schedule in the MWC this year is quite difficult. Hard to see a win, but maybe things go right for UNLV and they manage to go 1-3, with the win hopefully being at UNR.
The MWC home games, I agree with the person who said 2-2 is a likely possibility. I would add that 2-2 is likely the best case possibility.
This adds up to 4-8/3-5, which would be DOUBLE the number of games UNLV won last year, and DOUBLE what UNLV won in each season under Hauck except for 2013.
One last point. A win over Idaho State is NOT guaranteed. They are a decent FCS team. They play in The Big Sky, which is the 2nd or 3rd best FCS conference. And, Idaho State was 8-4 last year, 6-2 in the Big Sky, and finished 25th in the final Sports Network FCS poll. They were 3-8 in 2013, and prior to last year, had been woeful for at least 10 years. So it's hard to know if this is a program that is on the upswing, or one that will be back to a losing record in 2015.
Looking at their 2 deep roster for the final game of 2014, there were only 2 Seniors on the 2 deep offense. One was the starting QB, but Idaho State signed a JUCO QB this month, Michael Sanders(6-3, 210) from Scottsdale Community College. Sanders first-team all-league and finished second in the nation in passing with 3,827 yards. He threw for 38 touchdowns.
On defense, ISU had 8 Seniors on the 2 deep roster, 4 of whom were starters. So, they have plenty of players returning from last season, and look as if they may have addressed the loss of their starting QB. Their leading rusher from last year, Xavier Finney(5'11", 200lbs) was only a Junior. He ran for 1,495 yards and 14td... Leading receiver also returns. Madison Mangum(6'2", 212lb), who is a transfer from BYU. Caught 83 passes for 1,234 yards and 10TD's.... The 2nd leading receiver, KW Williams(6'1", 205lbs) also returns. He caught 65 passes, for 922 yards and 10 TD's
The leading tackler last year was a Freshman... Mario Jenkins(6'1", 225 LB)
So, not even Idaho State can be looked at as a guaranteed win.
This post was edited on 2/13 5:37 PM by GoRebs!
It's great to have optimism. It's great to have high hopes. It's also important to be realistic. At the very least, please be willing to be 100% behind Sanchez and this team if they win only 2-3 games in 2015. Especially if the team is much more competitive, and there are noticeable improvements to facilities.
Turning around the fortunes of UNLV football is going to be alot like a child learning to walk. And, before one walks, you first learn how to crawl. Hopefully, UNLV football is in the beginning stages of learning how to crawl.
The only game in the OOC schedule in which UNLV will not be an underdog of at least 10 or more points is Idaho State. The most realistic chance at an OOC win other than Idaho State is at Northern Illinois, in the first game of the season. NIU is a very good program. NIU is coming off an 11-3 season, in which they won the MAC West and also the MAC Championship game. Also won on the road at Northwestern.
NIU was 12-2 in 2013 and MAC West Champions. They won at Purdue and at Iowa.
12-2 in 2012...MAC West Champions....won the MAC Title Game.... played in the Orange Bowl
11-3 in 2011... MAC West Champs... won MAC Title game... beat Arkansas State in GoDaddy.com Bowl
11-3 in 2010... MAC West Champions...beat Fresno State in Humanitarian Bowl...won at Minnesota
NIU is 57-13 in the last 5 seasons. Played in a bowl game each of those seasons. Played in a BCS Bowl in the 2012 season. Won 48-34 last year at UNLV, and playing at NIU in the 1st game of the season will be the best opportunity UNLV has for a win in the 3 OOC games against FBS teams.
UNLV has won 15 games in the past 5 years, and 7 of those wins came in 2013. I do not even want to put the total number of games lost in the past 5 seasons.
Before people start telling me that the MAC is a lousy FBS conference and that Northwestern, Iowa and Purdue are not very good, remember that UNLV has gone 2-2 the past 4 years against FCS teams. And, this past year, they beat Northern Colorado 13-12. Of the 4 FCS teams that UNLV played each of the past 4 years, NONE made the FCS playoffs. So, with UNLV, we are talking about a program that has difficulty beating mediocre FCS teams at home, let alone being able to beat a school from a "power 5" conference, even the worst of the worst from the "power 5" conferences.
The road schedule in the MWC this year is quite difficult. Hard to see a win, but maybe things go right for UNLV and they manage to go 1-3, with the win hopefully being at UNR.
The MWC home games, I agree with the person who said 2-2 is a likely possibility. I would add that 2-2 is likely the best case possibility.
This adds up to 4-8/3-5, which would be DOUBLE the number of games UNLV won last year, and DOUBLE what UNLV won in each season under Hauck except for 2013.
One last point. A win over Idaho State is NOT guaranteed. They are a decent FCS team. They play in The Big Sky, which is the 2nd or 3rd best FCS conference. And, Idaho State was 8-4 last year, 6-2 in the Big Sky, and finished 25th in the final Sports Network FCS poll. They were 3-8 in 2013, and prior to last year, had been woeful for at least 10 years. So it's hard to know if this is a program that is on the upswing, or one that will be back to a losing record in 2015.
Looking at their 2 deep roster for the final game of 2014, there were only 2 Seniors on the 2 deep offense. One was the starting QB, but Idaho State signed a JUCO QB this month, Michael Sanders(6-3, 210) from Scottsdale Community College. Sanders first-team all-league and finished second in the nation in passing with 3,827 yards. He threw for 38 touchdowns.
On defense, ISU had 8 Seniors on the 2 deep roster, 4 of whom were starters. So, they have plenty of players returning from last season, and look as if they may have addressed the loss of their starting QB. Their leading rusher from last year, Xavier Finney(5'11", 200lbs) was only a Junior. He ran for 1,495 yards and 14td... Leading receiver also returns. Madison Mangum(6'2", 212lb), who is a transfer from BYU. Caught 83 passes for 1,234 yards and 10TD's.... The 2nd leading receiver, KW Williams(6'1", 205lbs) also returns. He caught 65 passes, for 922 yards and 10 TD's
The leading tackler last year was a Freshman... Mario Jenkins(6'1", 225 LB)
So, not even Idaho State can be looked at as a guaranteed win.
This post was edited on 2/13 5:37 PM by GoRebs!
By no means am I saying the offensive line was great. Pass blocking has been an issue. They rushed for over 200 yards against Northern Colorado so I wouldn't say they were handled in that area. As for Cornett being a big part of their success, it is sort of a chicken or the egg scenario, was the oline the reason for Tim's success or vise versa. Honestly it was a little of both. I do agree they could have played better and with all they promise they showed heading into Hauck's third year they never got a lot better.
Ground breaking on all of the facilities considered essential to compete with the big boys. Football equivalent of the Mendenhall, mess hall, study hall and indoor practice facility. Seeing the community rally around the program and understanding the value that would come from a university included in one of the power conferences. Guys buying into this program and loving this guy so much that they would run through walls for him. Energy in and around the program. That's what I would like to see this year.
It wouldn't be bad if we could start playing some smart football and win a couple games. No excuse for not having good special teams. Special teams can win games. Hopefully we see a team that gets better as the year goes on!
It wouldn't be bad if we could start playing some smart football and win a couple games. No excuse for not having good special teams. Special teams can win games. Hopefully we see a team that gets better as the year goes on!
I see 2 winnable games on the schedule. I think we will go somewhere between 0-2 wins this year. I would say as long as we aren't getting blown out it would be a good first year but in all reality I would be surprised to see us any more competitive than last year. Entire new coaching staff meaning entire new system to learn. Big question mark at the QB position, one of the worst defenses in the country, and a team with a pretty low football intelligence. I think for me to consider this a successful year I just want to see a team that refuses to give up no matter what the circumstances. I think the first 2 years we just need to be patient if we win a game or two great if not oh well let coach figure out the D1 game and get his system going and his recruits coming. Year three is when I expect to see results in the W column with around 4 wins that year and then progress each year.
I don't think the question mark at QB is as big as people make it out to be. Decker was under a ridiculous amount of pressure last season due to below average line play. The running game never got going, which had been a strength for us the last few years. and the pass protection was really bad especially in blitz pick up. Don't get me wrong Decker threw some questionable interceptions especially in the red zone that may have cost the team a few games. But considering how much of a beating that guy took its pretty understandable that his decision making and mechanics suffered. Also Decker was without his #1 receiver Devante Davis almost half of the season. Poor offensive line play, struggling run game, missing your best weapon on the outside, is going to hinder any QB.
If Coach Garrison is able to make some improvements to the offensive line and Coach Cotton gets the running game to be more efficient I am willing to bet that Decker will have a pretty solid season similar to what Herring had two years ago. Also the addition of Coach O'Dell should help as well. We now have a coach dedicated to coaching just the QBs and not splitting time.
I agree totally on the defense if there is no improvement we are looking at another 2 win season. I honestly would be happy if the new staff could shave 7 points off the board this year.
If Coach Garrison is able to make some improvements to the offensive line and Coach Cotton gets the running game to be more efficient I am willing to bet that Decker will have a pretty solid season similar to what Herring had two years ago. Also the addition of Coach O'Dell should help as well. We now have a coach dedicated to coaching just the QBs and not splitting time.
I agree totally on the defense if there is no improvement we are looking at another 2 win season. I honestly would be happy if the new staff could shave 7 points off the board this year.
We don't currently have the talent or depth on the roster to win more than 3-4 games, even in the MWC, even if coached up well. The new arrivals will hopefully help down the road. Most recruits we currently get are not high-impact, immediate help kind of guys. Some are projects. JCs are mainly hole fillers.
Sanchez is a good salesman. I know his excitement has some fired up. I'm interested.
A successful first season will be.... if he can best utilize the current bodies he has, begin to infuse his style, compete somewhat, build and revamp facilities at a progressive rate, leave little doubt that he can coach at this level, and prevent the flame of excitement from burning out among future recruits, boo$ter$, and the admin. If people are 80% as excited next year at this time as they are now, it will be a success, and potentially something to build on. ALL of these things in this recipe HAVE to happen, or the project will fail. I hope everyone involved are really as committed to this as they say they are. Making this happen is a tall, tall order, but at least Sanchez is very aware and willing to take it on.
We can't even look at our past HCs and say, "this guy almost got it done". Every fail has been by miserable proportions, and J Rob was the only one that truly made me believe, albeit briefly...
Sanchez is a good salesman. I know his excitement has some fired up. I'm interested.
A successful first season will be.... if he can best utilize the current bodies he has, begin to infuse his style, compete somewhat, build and revamp facilities at a progressive rate, leave little doubt that he can coach at this level, and prevent the flame of excitement from burning out among future recruits, boo$ter$, and the admin. If people are 80% as excited next year at this time as they are now, it will be a success, and potentially something to build on. ALL of these things in this recipe HAVE to happen, or the project will fail. I hope everyone involved are really as committed to this as they say they are. Making this happen is a tall, tall order, but at least Sanchez is very aware and willing to take it on.
We can't even look at our past HCs and say, "this guy almost got it done". Every fail has been by miserable proportions, and J Rob was the only one that truly made me believe, albeit briefly...
Most of the locals that were excited early and expressed it to me were basing their excitement on the program being a program that would have a coach that would build locally first. That excitement among that group has completely died down to generally having no interest.
IMO, another 2 win season or the potential of a no win season will place Sanchez in a sinking boat before he even gets away from the shallow water.The image of being an experimental high school coach will be a huge black eye on the recruiting trail if this team doesn't make immediate improvement as no viable prospect would consider playing in a situation that looks bleak.
I know many have talked facilities but everybody has facilities, even FCS programs. You build the facilities but you are still on an even field with the programs you are competing with for prospects.
More than anything, Sanchez should have placed his primary focus this year into building community support. Getting people to see the program as a representative of the area and getting future high end area players buy into the program as playing for a team that represents their home, friends and family. That way you have a shot at high end players as well as bring in mold-able talent.
That boat sailed and there won't be a do over in year two, the program is locked into building with the average fan and hopefully some Gorman support.
Just in general, the program is too in debt to make any changes over the next four years so this really needs to be a win now situation or can be a very ugly situation over the next four years.
IMO, another 2 win season or the potential of a no win season will place Sanchez in a sinking boat before he even gets away from the shallow water.The image of being an experimental high school coach will be a huge black eye on the recruiting trail if this team doesn't make immediate improvement as no viable prospect would consider playing in a situation that looks bleak.
I know many have talked facilities but everybody has facilities, even FCS programs. You build the facilities but you are still on an even field with the programs you are competing with for prospects.
More than anything, Sanchez should have placed his primary focus this year into building community support. Getting people to see the program as a representative of the area and getting future high end area players buy into the program as playing for a team that represents their home, friends and family. That way you have a shot at high end players as well as bring in mold-able talent.
That boat sailed and there won't be a do over in year two, the program is locked into building with the average fan and hopefully some Gorman support.
Just in general, the program is too in debt to make any changes over the next four years so this really needs to be a win now situation or can be a very ugly situation over the next four years.
It has been said before, but it bears repeating: Sam Boyd Stadium will not get filled just because there are bunch of Vegas kids playing there. Sure, you'll get an extra 500 people MAX as players' families, but that's it.
You said that Sanchez should have "placed his primary focus this year [on] building community support." If you think that getting community support is done by recruiting Las Vegas' leftovers that don't want to go to bigger schools, you're fooling yourself. That might get HS coaches or NV HS football junkies excited, but that will do nothing for the majority of community members.
You get community support and excitement by being on national sports radio, getting interviewed on national TV spots on signing day, starting a twitter campaign that drew more interest in recruiting than EVER before, you tell everyone that will listen that Vegas is a place where players can succeed, and you do it passionately, clearly, and truthfully. You talk about new uniforms and new money and new flashy facilities. You bring in $$. You fly on a private jet like the big boys do.
It's one thing to try and argue that every recruit we brought in falls short of some obscure local kid, and it's even worse to try and say that recruiting locally is the biggest thing Sanchez needs to do to turn this around.
You have to cater to your market and this team is very likely to lose a lot of game next season.
Reversing that statement: If you think that getting community community support by recruiting [/B]California's leftover that don't want to go to bigger schools, you're fooling yourself.[/B]
Devonte Boyd, Tim Hasson (walk-on), Tyler Gaston, Alex Klorman (walk-on), Cameron Jefferson, Marcus Sullivan, etc were Vegas leftovers as well. You recruit for the now factor as well as the future selling factor of selling elite local prospect on joining them. Just like the practice of getting women into the club to entice men to come inside but you are also getting an outstanding athlete that can develop into an impact player.
That angle is already dead so its really moot point so I won't continue the debate.
The interest that has been boasted seems to be recycled among the same people to me rather than expanding into the community. I think those people will be surprised when the season rolls around how little interest there is.
As I said, I won't go tit for tat as before but you only need less than 1.8% of the people in the valley to fill Sam Boyd Stadium but only 0.2% actually bought a season ticket last season. Right now the program is depending on visiting fans to meet to quota on attendance and a losing season won't help attendance or bring a larger presence among high quality prospects.
Could you please grow up and stop with the continuous rhetoric about how they should be recruiting all of these local players.
Point 1
All of the mid level or better local players have already been recruited by out of state schools and are not going to suddenly jump at the chance to play for UNLV based on a new coach.
Point 2
UNLV had the most local kids playing on the team over the last two years in school history. The attendance at UNLV games has been near the lowest point in the last 20 years with all those locals kids on the team.
Point 3
All of the coaching staff at UNLV already have connections to kids from out of state and had their best chance of recruiting from out of state with the recruits they already had connections to prior to accepting jobs at UNLV. Why do you think UNLV picked up so many players.
How much are you being paid to get local kids onto the UNLV football team that would never qualify for any other division 1 program in the country? Lucky for UNLV these coaches are looking for players that are the best fit not what fits your individual agenda!
Point 1
All of the mid level or better local players have already been recruited by out of state schools and are not going to suddenly jump at the chance to play for UNLV based on a new coach.
Point 2
UNLV had the most local kids playing on the team over the last two years in school history. The attendance at UNLV games has been near the lowest point in the last 20 years with all those locals kids on the team.
Point 3
All of the coaching staff at UNLV already have connections to kids from out of state and had their best chance of recruiting from out of state with the recruits they already had connections to prior to accepting jobs at UNLV. Why do you think UNLV picked up so many players.
How much are you being paid to get local kids onto the UNLV football team that would never qualify for any other division 1 program in the country? Lucky for UNLV these coaches are looking for players that are the best fit not what fits your individual agenda!
I don't accept money from athletes, their families or anyone involved with them. Most people find it odd but it goes against my belief system and it would make me disingenuous.
Will you claim you want to see this University succeed in football. I really do not believe that to be true. During the recruiting season I followed on twitter a few of the kids you were high on out of Las Vegas. Reading a few of their tweets was like reading your posts on these forums. You are not helping the university build a relationship with any of these kids you are poisoning it. I will not name the kid, but one of them damn near was saying things that you say on here word for word.
On the topic of Las Vegas talent, UNLV ended up with 2 of YOUR top ten kids coming out of Las Vegas. They could have had three if Nela had stayed. (It worked out better for UNLV that he left as I think Laolagi is a better prospect than Nela). Jamell Garcia-Williams got 0 offers. Andrew Peterson got 0 offers. Albert Lake got 0 offers. Chris Goree got 0 offers. Not zero FBS offers zero offers total from any level. Why should UNLV use scholarships on these kids if nobody else is? How can we build a football program with kids that nobody seems to want. I am not knocking any of these kids and hope that they either walk on here or at another school and have great careers. But UNLV should not recruit locally for the sake of recruiting locally.The key to building a successful program is signing the RIGHT local kids. You also must develop pipe lines into other areas to have a successful program. UNLV is doing that in the talent rich Houston/Texas area. They are working on the central and northern California areas as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with how they are recruiting. There are 7 local kids with offers. If all of them actually commit next season they would comprise nearly 33% of a recruiting class which is an extremely high number. My guess we probably get 4 or 5 and hopefully they are the best ones available.
How many more seats would be filled at the stadium by signing 5 or even 10 more kids from Las Vegas this season. Say 2 parents and a sibling for each. So a whopping 30 more seats will be filled. The team needs to show improvement on the field. One winning season will not change the perception. UNLV football will have to start to win 6+ games a year back to back to back and make UNLV football 'the cool thing to do' for Las Vegans to come out and support. Even basketball on the night they honored Tark did not sell out the Thomas and Mack which is pretty sad.
Bottom line a 22-30 million dollar football complex and some other improvements to facilities will draw in recruits. Yes we need to win, but improvements to facilities and new facilities, will draw in kids nearly as much as a winning season. Hauck's bowl season didn't really alter or improve his level or recruits. It takes time to build a program. This is not a rebuilding project. Something has to have been built to be rebuilt. Sanchez is trying to build a program from the ground up.
On the topic of Las Vegas talent, UNLV ended up with 2 of YOUR top ten kids coming out of Las Vegas. They could have had three if Nela had stayed. (It worked out better for UNLV that he left as I think Laolagi is a better prospect than Nela). Jamell Garcia-Williams got 0 offers. Andrew Peterson got 0 offers. Albert Lake got 0 offers. Chris Goree got 0 offers. Not zero FBS offers zero offers total from any level. Why should UNLV use scholarships on these kids if nobody else is? How can we build a football program with kids that nobody seems to want. I am not knocking any of these kids and hope that they either walk on here or at another school and have great careers. But UNLV should not recruit locally for the sake of recruiting locally.The key to building a successful program is signing the RIGHT local kids. You also must develop pipe lines into other areas to have a successful program. UNLV is doing that in the talent rich Houston/Texas area. They are working on the central and northern California areas as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with how they are recruiting. There are 7 local kids with offers. If all of them actually commit next season they would comprise nearly 33% of a recruiting class which is an extremely high number. My guess we probably get 4 or 5 and hopefully they are the best ones available.
How many more seats would be filled at the stadium by signing 5 or even 10 more kids from Las Vegas this season. Say 2 parents and a sibling for each. So a whopping 30 more seats will be filled. The team needs to show improvement on the field. One winning season will not change the perception. UNLV football will have to start to win 6+ games a year back to back to back and make UNLV football 'the cool thing to do' for Las Vegans to come out and support. Even basketball on the night they honored Tark did not sell out the Thomas and Mack which is pretty sad.
Bottom line a 22-30 million dollar football complex and some other improvements to facilities will draw in recruits. Yes we need to win, but improvements to facilities and new facilities, will draw in kids nearly as much as a winning season. Hauck's bowl season didn't really alter or improve his level or recruits. It takes time to build a program. This is not a rebuilding project. Something has to have been built to be rebuilt. Sanchez is trying to build a program from the ground up.
I didn't mold some opinion with any kid. The university never even spoke to the kids during the process beyond grabbing some film in the final week. If they are bitter, its due to personal experience rather than from me.
The lack of offers for local kids is a geographic location problem rather than talent and production issue. There aren't any post high school football options beyond paying out of state tuition to play at a junior college in California or Arizona.
FCS programs don't recruit out of state and here is an explanation from a staff member at one of the California programs.
Will,
I will look into them, but we don't do any out of state recruiting. Because of budget restrictions, it costs us a scholarship and 2/3, for each out of state player. Plus recruiting them, we usually don't know as much about a player out of state as we would as a player in state.
I know its not what you want to hear, but it is the reality of our situation. Thank you again for your interest in ******** FOOTBALL.
Even the California junior college programs have restriction on targeting out-of-state players with the "First Contact" rule making it nearly impossible for area kids to land with most programs. Out of state recruiting by California junior college programs is actually prohibited minus a few that were granted waivers.
Instate students also pay just $46 a credit while out of state students pay 5-6 times more per credit and housing isn't an option thus many Nevada students don't have the opportunity to attend California Junior Colleges to play sports.
First Contact
Changes to First Contact
California Junior College Recruiting Districts
COD First Contact Issues
Arizona Junior College programs also have restrictions on out of state recruiting as well.
Many of the kids in the area rate among the fastest and most explosive kids in the nation using track/football combine results that place kids on even ground to measure physical ability. You really aren't throwing crumbs at some no talent happy to be on the team type of kids, they are outstanding athletes that can be impact players.
Despite the lack of instate options, 39 high school football seniors from Nevada will be playing for 4-year college programs and several preferred not to sign with the lower level programs that provided the option.
For UNLV, they brought in 11 out of area high school players that didn't have an FBS offer. Of the ones that did have offers:
White had New Mexico State and New Mexico but no other visits beyond UNLV.
Mouton had listed offers but was only brought in for an official visit by New Mexico.
Wily only had visits to UNLV and instate Hawaii.
I will add an example of the geography thing, Sierra Vista quarterback Taz Wilson moved to Georgia and Stevie Farmer moved to Alabama after showing physical talent but poor numbers in Nevada. They both produced big numbers at the schools they transferred to signing to play with UAB at quarterback in the 2014 class before they shutdown the program.
USC Scott Starr, now Scott Felix, started his career at Desert Oasis but transferred to Norco as a junior. He instantly became a four star prospect linebacker.
There are several more situations I can name where kids transfer to other states and became instant stars, its all geography. If the regents in the area invested in a junior college program like they have baseball, this area would catapult to the top with all the talent available. Its really an untapped area that is high in talent but has only one option beyond tacking on a ton of debt.
A talent deficiency problem would be understood, but that isn't the case as to why so few Nevadans end up on a UNLV football roster. I also honestly believe there where several players in the area that were better FBS prospects than the kids being brought in and these kids are the community despite what you have to say.
Baseball had a sell out crowd last week with a local based roster because they get it. You won't see a middle of the pack 6 win Rebel team gaining more local support without more local faces on the roster.
The Tony Sanchez part
As you aren't a high school football fan, you probably don't realize Tony Sanchez did not build Bishop Gorman. He was brought in to an established program that was preloaded with elite local talent and told to manage it and be a good PR guy. He was a solid public high school coach at California prior to landing the Gorman job but a better PR guy than Bob Altshuler who actually had a far superior resume and got the program over the hump.
Dave White was actually the guy that got the talent to start rolling in prior to Altshuler cementing the rise.
Sanchez gets credit but he walked into a plush situation with the new campus and stadium already in place. That said, minus the nearly emergency summer transfer of Tate Martell, Tyjon Lindsey and Cordell Broadus; Gorman would not have gone undefeated this season and likely would have fell to Reed in the title game if they got past Arbor View and Centennial. The 2013 offense was pretty ugly offensively minus Randall Cunningham and, prior to the trio transferring, it wasn't going to be much better this season.
Bob Altshuler
Dave White
Sanchez has never coached a college football team and follows:
Bobby Hauck took an FCS team to three championship games and lost no more than 2 games his last four years at Montana. He also took UNLV to a bowl game.
John Robinson took USC to 4 Rose Bowls with 5 first place finishes. He also coached the LA Rams for 8 years making the NFL playoffs 6 times.
Mike Sanford was a 22 year college football assistant coach with 3 season in the NFL
As for the football facility thing; if people are going to invest, they will invest. There is no guaranteed money on the table for the project as of now and we will see if it goes past the planning stage but everybody has facilities. U Mass added a 35 million dollar facility, Oregon 68 million, UCLA 50 million, WSU 61 million, Utah 32 million, USF 34 million, etc.
It will make things pretty but it won't make prospects choose UNLV over the Pac 10 or other more successful programs.
Facilities around college sports roundup
I understand your excitement and give you credit for your views but I accept them.
The bottom line on my points is that the lack of college options isn't a reflection of talent among local prospects that were available. Its a location issue.
Tark had at least 2 locals on his roster during his time per season and the city was much smaller. People were connected to his programs and they started winning a bunch of games. The crowd sucked at the last game but most people here now didn't live here during his tenure as coach. The program has to market to a larger but fickle base of people that generally care little for UNLV athletics. It has to find a way to get them to buy in to UNLV being a Southern Nevada program that represent them and is worth supporting.
A new facility and a few wins here and there won't turn UNLV football into a powerhouse that is a national contender for high level prospects around the nation. It starts with building a fan base and pride in the program first.
Will, you obviously missed my point on Vegas recruits drawing interest and fans to SBS. I should have been more clear. You're right, this team will not get community support by recruiting California's leftovers, either. Let me try and make it clearer.
At this point, UNLV can't compete to get 4-5 star kids. Period. So we need to recruit as many 3-star guys as we can, and then take the best "leftovers" that will commit. And on that note, there is NO QUESTION that Texas' and California's "leftovers" are better than Vegas ones. Sorry. It's just numbers. Vegas/Nevada talent is really solid, but proportionally, with only 2.1 million in Clark County, and less than 3 million in the whole state, the number division 1 level athletes isn't going to compare with CA or TX, each of which have 10 times the population.
But really, that's not even the point of my argument. It comes down to this: as far as recruiting goes, Sanchez couldn't do a whole lot to make a splash and get community support. Whether the kids were from Vegas, Nevada, CA, TX, Alaska, Hawaii, Australia, or Sweden, no recruit was going to be big enough to impact community support.
Now, if somehow he had been able to sway Vegas/Gorman's 4-start guys (Broadus, Fertitta, etc.) to stay, that would have been an attention grabber. But picking up Vegas kids (the ones whose stats and numbers you throw out as better than every UNLV signee) that may be good players, but have no other offers, would not do it. That was the basis for me shooting down your original argument that Sanchez has failed at gaining community support because he didn't recruit locals.
With all of that said, I think Sanchez did great at landing a recruiting class that moved us into the middle of the pack in the MWC.
At this point, UNLV can't compete to get 4-5 star kids. Period. So we need to recruit as many 3-star guys as we can, and then take the best "leftovers" that will commit. And on that note, there is NO QUESTION that Texas' and California's "leftovers" are better than Vegas ones. Sorry. It's just numbers. Vegas/Nevada talent is really solid, but proportionally, with only 2.1 million in Clark County, and less than 3 million in the whole state, the number division 1 level athletes isn't going to compare with CA or TX, each of which have 10 times the population.
But really, that's not even the point of my argument. It comes down to this: as far as recruiting goes, Sanchez couldn't do a whole lot to make a splash and get community support. Whether the kids were from Vegas, Nevada, CA, TX, Alaska, Hawaii, Australia, or Sweden, no recruit was going to be big enough to impact community support.
Now, if somehow he had been able to sway Vegas/Gorman's 4-start guys (Broadus, Fertitta, etc.) to stay, that would have been an attention grabber. But picking up Vegas kids (the ones whose stats and numbers you throw out as better than every UNLV signee) that may be good players, but have no other offers, would not do it. That was the basis for me shooting down your original argument that Sanchez has failed at gaining community support because he didn't recruit locals.
With all of that said, I think Sanchez did great at landing a recruiting class that moved us into the middle of the pack in the MWC.
I was going to post a bunch of stuff but this dude hit it on the head....
At this point, UNLV can't compete to get 4-5 star kids.
Period. So we need to recruit as many 3-star guys as we can, and then
take the best "leftovers" that will commit. And on that note, there is
NO QUESTION that Texas' and California's "leftovers" are better than
Vegas ones. Sorry. It's just numbers. Vegas/Nevada talent is really
solid, but proportionally, with only 2.1 million in Clark County, and
less than 3 million in the whole state, the number division 1 level
athletes isn't going to compare with CA or TX, each of which have 10
times the population.
But really, that's not even the point of my
argument. It comes down to this: as far as recruiting goes, Sanchez
couldn't do a whole lot to make a splash and get community support.
Whether the kids were from Vegas, Nevada, CA, TX, Alaska, Hawaii,
Australia, or Sweden, no recruit was going to be big enough to impact
community support.
Now, if somehow he had been able to sway
Vegas/Gorman's 4-start guys (Broadus, Fertitta, etc.) to stay, that
would have been an attention grabber. But picking up Vegas kids (the
ones whose stats and numbers you throw out as better than every UNLV
signee) that may be good players, but have no other offers, would not do
it. That was the basis for me shooting down your original argument that
Sanchez has failed at gaining community support because he didn't
recruit locals.
At this point, UNLV can't compete to get 4-5 star kids.
Period. So we need to recruit as many 3-star guys as we can, and then
take the best "leftovers" that will commit. And on that note, there is
NO QUESTION that Texas' and California's "leftovers" are better than
Vegas ones. Sorry. It's just numbers. Vegas/Nevada talent is really
solid, but proportionally, with only 2.1 million in Clark County, and
less than 3 million in the whole state, the number division 1 level
athletes isn't going to compare with CA or TX, each of which have 10
times the population.
But really, that's not even the point of my
argument. It comes down to this: as far as recruiting goes, Sanchez
couldn't do a whole lot to make a splash and get community support.
Whether the kids were from Vegas, Nevada, CA, TX, Alaska, Hawaii,
Australia, or Sweden, no recruit was going to be big enough to impact
community support.
Now, if somehow he had been able to sway
Vegas/Gorman's 4-start guys (Broadus, Fertitta, etc.) to stay, that
would have been an attention grabber. But picking up Vegas kids (the
ones whose stats and numbers you throw out as better than every UNLV
signee) that may be good players, but have no other offers, would not do
it. That was the basis for me shooting down your original argument that
Sanchez has failed at gaining community support because he didn't
recruit locals.
One other note about trying to use the baseball argument and how the UNLV baseball team has mostly local recruits. First of all youth baseball in Las Vegas especially at the club ball level is huge. Second the talent level in baseball is extremely high because the weather here allows the club teams to play year round. Now this isn't to say baseball players are not good athletes, but baseball is the type of sport where a lesser athlete can succeed more easily. Reps matter more in baseball than in either basketball or football. Hand eye coordination is key. Also the coaching especially at the club ball level here in Las Vegas is extremely high.That is what local kids get with baseball, a ton of reps, in the field and at the plate. It allows for great improvement. UNLV baseball recruits locally because Vegas is a youth baseball town....The club teams travel extensively and play a ton of games every year. Its apples and oranges.
Also I follow high school football in town. I watch as much tape as possible, and attend a game or two every year. I may not watch the amount of film you do, or attend as many games but I follow what is going on locally.
Also I am well aware that Sanchez did not build the Gorman program. But good to see you got your shot in on him in your post. I was worried you forgot to take your usual crack at him.
Also I follow high school football in town. I watch as much tape as possible, and attend a game or two every year. I may not watch the amount of film you do, or attend as many games but I follow what is going on locally.
Also I am well aware that Sanchez did not build the Gorman program. But good to see you got your shot in on him in your post. I was worried you forgot to take your usual crack at him.
Las Vegas is a bigger youth football town than baseball although baseball is very popular big as well.
The NYFL, NYS, Elite, Pop Warner and SNYSA all field football teams. There are spring leagues as well in youth football. There is over 50 teams at the 13u level alone in the Las Vegas area. The area operates 9 football fields along with the use of several high schools that host youth football games from 8am-10pm on Saturdays during football season with game also taking place Monday-Wednesday to accommodate the amount of youth football teams fielded in the area.
There are three national youth football tournaments in Las Vegas every December.
My kid's team fielded 38 kids alone at the 6-8 level and the competition at the youth levels are pretty impressive and entertaining.
SNYSA Championship: Arbor View Jr Aggies vs Cheyenne Zulus
NYS Championship: Henderson Federals vs Green Valley Knights
Will,
I'm pretty sure his point was that the talent level for local baseball is better than football. Our local baseball scene produces several "5-stars" while the football scene yields a scarce amount (whereas Texas, California, Florida, etc. are football hotbeds, so to speak).
I'm pretty sure his point was that the talent level for local baseball is better than football. Our local baseball scene produces several "5-stars" while the football scene yields a scarce amount (whereas Texas, California, Florida, etc. are football hotbeds, so to speak).
Will
Somebody posted it before me and was correct. Baseball is played year round, and kids on club teams travel constantly. They play FAR more games and get far more reps than football.
Somebody posted it before me and was correct. Baseball is played year round, and kids on club teams travel constantly. They play FAR more games and get far more reps than football.
14 4-stars in football to 7 baseball top-8 round picks since 2008.
40 non-UNLV current FBS football players were on rosters while 23 baseball player were signed to major schools since 2010
23 UNLV (10 scholarship) football players to 17 baseball players
Total of 63 players on roster in football to 40 players signed in baseball.
Tim Chambers carries Las Vegas area baseball and is a great ambassador for the kids. If CSN and UNLV weren't available, most kids wouldn't have an option.
I provide exposure and a road map for college programs seeking talent in the state of Nevada that would otherwise have no options upon graduation despite having outstanding talent.
Texas, California and Florida recruit their own thus a lot of prospects end up in college, its a self fulfilling process to call them football hotbeds. That said, 4 out of 11 Texas FBS programs had losing records, 3 out of 7 California programs had losing records and 3 out of 6 Florida programs had losing records.
There is an obvious talent drop-off that is reflected in the poor showing among the FCS programs fielded in the states as well as struggling lower end FBS programs.
The talent doesn't trickle down to UNLV with just 9 UNLV players having earned All-MWC honors in the last 10 year with 3 being local guys.
Only an idiot would base a prospect evaluation on the geographic area of play rather than measurable talent (size & speed), production and physical potential. This program is an extremely poor performing football program that has spent nearly its entire life focused on a "trickle down economic" based recruiting strategy.
It had some basis 20 years ago when the population base was 750,000 people but it is a outrageous with a population base of 2.1 million. Especially when you have just 4,000 season ticket holder for a 37,000 seat stadium
Taking a chance on a high school football coach with zero college football experience based off of a 5 year career at a glitzy private school program is more risky that taking a risk on a few of several area athletes that run sub 4.6 times in the 40 with great production at the high school level and also produced great numbers in track.
This post was edited on 2/21 2:13 AM by willlevi
Will-
How many players from Las Vegas skipped college and went directly into the minor leagues they need to be included in your post. You also have to include any players that went to juco, division II and even NAIA for baseball. Baseball having fewer players means the talent is far more spread out among teams and there are fewer scholarships to offer. The number of stud players that don't get recruited to a 'big' school is far greater in baseball. Also you have to consider the NAIA and Juco routes are favorable to top end prospects because they don't have to honor a three year commitment like they would at a Division 1 school. (Bryce Harper) MLB teams tell some of the top prospects to go to a junior college to get one more year under their belt before being drafted or signed to a contract. Its apples and oranges. Your analysis is completely wrong.
As far as teams having losing records in Florida, California and Texas...Maybe because out of state schools come in and poach their talent base? You do realize there are a ton of kids aged 18 that want to get away from home if given the chance. I have to imagine Oklahoma grabs a few top end Texas kids every year right? That in turn would hurt all teams in Texas. I have to imagine that there are a number of players on Oregon's roster from California and that probably hurts teams like Cal and Stanford and San Diego State. I know for sure that there are some Florida kids on Alabama's roster and on North Carolina's roster and Georgia's roster and that probably limits the growth of teams like FIU and FAU.
As for the local talent, you can talk about whatever rules and give whatever reason Vegas kids are getting passed over. The simple truth was the city is top heavy in terms of talent and not very deep yet. You continually bring up the 2 million people we have living in the area. Houston is comparable to Las Vegas in size right? Both have right around 2 million people. Go take a look at the number of FBS offers given to Houston area kids vs what were given to Las Vegas kids. I think it is close to 2-1 if not more. Why would that be if they have the same population? That is just FBS programs.
Enough with the track stats and 40 times. Track speed is not football speed you know that. If 40 times were the end all be all then Darius Heyward Bey would be the greatest receiver in the history of the NFL. Do teams look at 40 times, of course they do, but if so many of our kids in Vegas are running these great times, programs outside of Nevada would take notice and would be sending scouts here in droves to get these elite athletes.
Lastly...I will play your game lets say we don't hire Sanchez. So with him not being here, the 100K donation given by the football foundation goes away and the locker rooms are still a mess. The 140K sound system that was donated is also gone as well. The proposed 22-30 million dollar football complex is also off the table. Now add to that the fact Sanchez took less money so that he could hire the staff he wanted despite being one of the lowest paid coaches in the conference already. Also take the private jet away that the staff was using this year because there would have been no money for that. Almost forgot the free publicity and recruiting we got for next season with Sanchez appearing in Snoop and Son, and don't tell me that type of publicity doesn't help. Also take away the publicity from the live spot on nationally syndicated ESPN radio show with Colin Cowherd. Would not have happened with any other hire.
So after taking all that away what are we left with? The same damn mess we have had for the last 20 years. We went legendary coach...Failed. We went hot coordinator route...Failed. Went successful FCS guy...Failed. Every plausible route has been taken.
So in your infinite wisdom who would have been a better hire? Who would have come in here for what UNLV was willing to pay. I don't care how much they deny it or try and hide it, their is booster money involved. The program needed a complete overhaul. This was a risk the university absolutely had to take...
How many players from Las Vegas skipped college and went directly into the minor leagues they need to be included in your post. You also have to include any players that went to juco, division II and even NAIA for baseball. Baseball having fewer players means the talent is far more spread out among teams and there are fewer scholarships to offer. The number of stud players that don't get recruited to a 'big' school is far greater in baseball. Also you have to consider the NAIA and Juco routes are favorable to top end prospects because they don't have to honor a three year commitment like they would at a Division 1 school. (Bryce Harper) MLB teams tell some of the top prospects to go to a junior college to get one more year under their belt before being drafted or signed to a contract. Its apples and oranges. Your analysis is completely wrong.
As far as teams having losing records in Florida, California and Texas...Maybe because out of state schools come in and poach their talent base? You do realize there are a ton of kids aged 18 that want to get away from home if given the chance. I have to imagine Oklahoma grabs a few top end Texas kids every year right? That in turn would hurt all teams in Texas. I have to imagine that there are a number of players on Oregon's roster from California and that probably hurts teams like Cal and Stanford and San Diego State. I know for sure that there are some Florida kids on Alabama's roster and on North Carolina's roster and Georgia's roster and that probably limits the growth of teams like FIU and FAU.
As for the local talent, you can talk about whatever rules and give whatever reason Vegas kids are getting passed over. The simple truth was the city is top heavy in terms of talent and not very deep yet. You continually bring up the 2 million people we have living in the area. Houston is comparable to Las Vegas in size right? Both have right around 2 million people. Go take a look at the number of FBS offers given to Houston area kids vs what were given to Las Vegas kids. I think it is close to 2-1 if not more. Why would that be if they have the same population? That is just FBS programs.
Enough with the track stats and 40 times. Track speed is not football speed you know that. If 40 times were the end all be all then Darius Heyward Bey would be the greatest receiver in the history of the NFL. Do teams look at 40 times, of course they do, but if so many of our kids in Vegas are running these great times, programs outside of Nevada would take notice and would be sending scouts here in droves to get these elite athletes.
Lastly...I will play your game lets say we don't hire Sanchez. So with him not being here, the 100K donation given by the football foundation goes away and the locker rooms are still a mess. The 140K sound system that was donated is also gone as well. The proposed 22-30 million dollar football complex is also off the table. Now add to that the fact Sanchez took less money so that he could hire the staff he wanted despite being one of the lowest paid coaches in the conference already. Also take the private jet away that the staff was using this year because there would have been no money for that. Almost forgot the free publicity and recruiting we got for next season with Sanchez appearing in Snoop and Son, and don't tell me that type of publicity doesn't help. Also take away the publicity from the live spot on nationally syndicated ESPN radio show with Colin Cowherd. Would not have happened with any other hire.
So after taking all that away what are we left with? The same damn mess we have had for the last 20 years. We went legendary coach...Failed. We went hot coordinator route...Failed. Went successful FCS guy...Failed. Every plausible route has been taken.
So in your infinite wisdom who would have been a better hire? Who would have come in here for what UNLV was willing to pay. I don't care how much they deny it or try and hide it, their is booster money involved. The program needed a complete overhaul. This was a risk the university absolutely had to take...
Thanks for the support, Bull.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, Will, regarding your stats since Bull already effectively disputed them. You can spin stats how you want and try to do but you proved my point when you mentioned 4- and not 5-stars. You're trying to say that Kia makes a better vehicle than Ferarri since there are more Kias produced.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, Will, regarding your stats since Bull already effectively disputed them. You can spin stats how you want and try to do but you proved my point when you mentioned 4- and not 5-stars. You're trying to say that Kia makes a better vehicle than Ferarri since there are more Kias produced.
I actually included drafted kids thus I listed signed rather than on rosters. The majority of baseball players in this state have also struggled to get on the map but there remains a ton of options plus a 40 round draft.
Bryce Harper actually went to CSN because he was a high school junior and wanted to avoid waiting an extra year to be drafted. He was actually supposed to be a have another 2 years of high school but got his GED so he could enroll at CSN.
As for the second point we seem to be making the same point, the higher end teams take so much talent that there isn't enough available to get the lower end teams out of the basement. Those school recruit 95 percent instate.
(Just a side note: Alabama has just 5 Florida kids on the roster while North Carolina and Georgia has 12.)
As for Darious Heyward Bey, he was a beast of a player in college and a top 10 NFL draft pick. His NFL production isn't a reflection of his college impact
As for the depth among local prospects, I strongly differ. There is no lack of depth and having a 2* behind your name in the Rivals database means that you committed to a college and that either you have never been evaluated or you have and weren't considered to be impressive.
Beyond Bishop Gorman, our national scouts do not travel to Nevada to evaluate prospects. Outside of getting noticed at a national camp or combine, that I have to battle to even garner invites, they won't be evaluated thus the lack of stars.
2015 Class
2016 Class
Only 34 total players in the nation will be ranked as a 5* prospect.
Overall, 2015 recruiting is over and now is the time to focus on results.
Will-
I know how many kids Alabama kids have on their roster from Florida. My point was how many are poached from the state of Florida in general.
I understand also why Harper went to a junior college. It is also a route a lot of players go and are advised by teams to do. It is like a free year in the minors and one more year of evaluation for major league teams. If a player goes to a major university they are stuck there for 3 years.
I was not debating Darius Heyward Bey's college career. I was making the point that the 40 time is not the end all be all. Yes he was great at Maryland. He has been an absolute bust in the NFL. There are cases of this at the college level as well. Kid can run an amazing 40 does well in high school and does nothing in college. Happens all over the country. You know that.
Will I also am aware of how sketchy the star system is by all recruiting services. You get looked at or an offer by FBS you get noticed. If two or three mid majors look at you maybe you get 2 stars, if USC jumps in all of a sudden people start to watch your tape and you jump to 3 or 4 stars. It is an inexact science.
With the amount of money coaches at top end programs are being paid. With the cut throat nature of coaching in college football where coaches are constantly on the hot seat. I find it incredibly hard to believe that if the Las Vegas talent base was as good as you say, there wouldn't be more kids getting offers than there are.. I think we have some great top end talent. I also think that the talent is really spread out here now and while there are a couple of schools that produce good kids year in year out there are also some schools here that are awful...I mean downright awful. There are also a number of schools that struggle to field teams and lack depth. That in turn effects the quality of the football being played in my opinion.
I know how many kids Alabama kids have on their roster from Florida. My point was how many are poached from the state of Florida in general.
I understand also why Harper went to a junior college. It is also a route a lot of players go and are advised by teams to do. It is like a free year in the minors and one more year of evaluation for major league teams. If a player goes to a major university they are stuck there for 3 years.
I was not debating Darius Heyward Bey's college career. I was making the point that the 40 time is not the end all be all. Yes he was great at Maryland. He has been an absolute bust in the NFL. There are cases of this at the college level as well. Kid can run an amazing 40 does well in high school and does nothing in college. Happens all over the country. You know that.
Will I also am aware of how sketchy the star system is by all recruiting services. You get looked at or an offer by FBS you get noticed. If two or three mid majors look at you maybe you get 2 stars, if USC jumps in all of a sudden people start to watch your tape and you jump to 3 or 4 stars. It is an inexact science.
With the amount of money coaches at top end programs are being paid. With the cut throat nature of coaching in college football where coaches are constantly on the hot seat. I find it incredibly hard to believe that if the Las Vegas talent base was as good as you say, there wouldn't be more kids getting offers than there are.. I think we have some great top end talent. I also think that the talent is really spread out here now and while there are a couple of schools that produce good kids year in year out there are also some schools here that are awful...I mean downright awful. There are also a number of schools that struggle to field teams and lack depth. That in turn effects the quality of the football being played in my opinion.
Its not as cutthroat as you would think when you get past the top 300 prospects. Major college programs take a few off the top every season but programs don't usually recruit nationally. Regional recruiting offers familiar names to their fan base and allow the programs to build as well as maintain traditions the programs are built upon.
Generally only academic schools and sparsely populated regions extend a long arm during the recruiting process out of necessity buts its not the norm. West coast kids in general are also are a poor fit culturally for some programs the same way southern kids are a poor fit culturally for many programs.
Air Mile index story
Nebraska recruiting radius story
Another 500 mile radius story
In a public school system, the talent is spread out. That goes for anywhere in the country and there isn't a region that does have awful schools. Just looking at areas the current recruits came from:
Folsom was more dominate than Bishop Gorman this year even winning the championship game in a close 68-7 in a public football league as a public football team.
Folsom Schedule
De La Salle blanked Pittsburg 35-0 but just five teams North Coast Section gave up less than 23 points per game
North Coast Section D1
Vallejo is a 1-9 team that hasn't had a winning record in the past decade.
Even the Houston area has a ton of horrible teams
Houston Aldine[/URL] was # 4 out of the 7 team Section 18-6A making the playoffs
The bottom 5 of Section 20-6A are horrible with Houston Math and Science holding the bottom
Houston High School Football
Its really just public high school football, there are great teams, good teams and bad teams.
Las Vegas is a public high school football system where kids are required to play in the zone they are assigned minus going to a magnet school or getting a variance. There are some great high school programs and a lot of very talented athletes in this city and many don't play for elite programs.
Las Vegas is a big city that can't shut down on Friday nights for high school football but attend a major match up and show up late, you won't make it through the gate before halftime.
You want to see a town shutdown for a football game, head out to Overton to watch a Moapa Valley game on a Friday night.
It is a competitive system where everything is built around developing your kids and getting good participation.
Bishop Gorman is the x-factor in the mix as they don't have to play under the same rules and feature a hand picked roster. Gorman also has developed an out of state transfer program that has given them an edge each season. Gorman taking state titles isn't a reflection the talent situation of Nevada schools, they just have the ability to bring in players to fill out their roster and eliminate holes
If you actually travel and see the kids around the nation, you will find the Las Vegas area is extremely talent rich.
Hopefully some of you guys will make it to the Rivals Camp Series event at Clark HS tomorrow, there will be a of kids from around the nation there that will give you a better idea of how talent is spread out. Several Nevada kids will be competing in the event as well.
This post was edited on 2/21 10:15 PM by willlevi
Generally only academic schools and sparsely populated regions extend a long arm during the recruiting process out of necessity buts its not the norm. West coast kids in general are also are a poor fit culturally for some programs the same way southern kids are a poor fit culturally for many programs.
Air Mile index story
Nebraska recruiting radius story
Another 500 mile radius story
In a public school system, the talent is spread out. That goes for anywhere in the country and there isn't a region that does have awful schools. Just looking at areas the current recruits came from:
Folsom was more dominate than Bishop Gorman this year even winning the championship game in a close 68-7 in a public football league as a public football team.
Folsom Schedule
De La Salle blanked Pittsburg 35-0 but just five teams North Coast Section gave up less than 23 points per game
North Coast Section D1
Vallejo is a 1-9 team that hasn't had a winning record in the past decade.
Even the Houston area has a ton of horrible teams
Houston Aldine[/URL] was # 4 out of the 7 team Section 18-6A making the playoffs
The bottom 5 of Section 20-6A are horrible with Houston Math and Science holding the bottom
Houston High School Football
Its really just public high school football, there are great teams, good teams and bad teams.
Las Vegas is a public high school football system where kids are required to play in the zone they are assigned minus going to a magnet school or getting a variance. There are some great high school programs and a lot of very talented athletes in this city and many don't play for elite programs.
Las Vegas is a big city that can't shut down on Friday nights for high school football but attend a major match up and show up late, you won't make it through the gate before halftime.
You want to see a town shutdown for a football game, head out to Overton to watch a Moapa Valley game on a Friday night.
It is a competitive system where everything is built around developing your kids and getting good participation.
Bishop Gorman is the x-factor in the mix as they don't have to play under the same rules and feature a hand picked roster. Gorman also has developed an out of state transfer program that has given them an edge each season. Gorman taking state titles isn't a reflection the talent situation of Nevada schools, they just have the ability to bring in players to fill out their roster and eliminate holes
If you actually travel and see the kids around the nation, you will find the Las Vegas area is extremely talent rich.
Hopefully some of you guys will make it to the Rivals Camp Series event at Clark HS tomorrow, there will be a of kids from around the nation there that will give you a better idea of how talent is spread out. Several Nevada kids will be competing in the event as well.
This post was edited on 2/21 10:15 PM by willlevi
Will-
In a world where college football coaches are making millions of dollars, don't tell me that it is not a cut throat business. Gene Chizik won a national title and was fired from Auburn after 4 years. On top of that Auburn had to pay the man about 11 million dollars NOT TO coach. I would call that type of pressure cut throat. I would also say that coaches are going to send recruiters to look under a rock if they think there is a player under it.
I already destroyed your densely populated argument in two other threads when I mentioned both Michigan State and Michigan. Both of whom are in a densely populated state and still recruited predominantly outside of the state. If building teams meant simply recruiting out of a densely populated area then Houston should be one of the top programs in the nation year in and year out. Why isn't Maryland or even Syracuse a national powerhouse considering both are in densely populated states? Will we went over this and I pulled up the recruiting classes of both low population states and densely populated states. The medium number for in state recruits was around 25% except for a few exceptions which were Florida, Texas Ohio and California...
Post videos again of Chris Goree and Jamell Garcia-Williams and Gabe McCoy and have everybody on here watch those highlight films. I would be willing to bet that they would overwhelming say that not only was McCoy better but the talent and football being played around him was better. Post video of Andrew Peterson vs Xzavier Campbell or Lexington Thomas and again the overwhelming sentiment would be that the those two guys were better prospects and they played vs better opposition. Hell post Chris Goree's tape vs Loalagi. Post Al Lake tape as a defensive back vs Mouton. Want to bet who people would think was the better prospect and who was facing better opposition..Oh wait we did that in a thread already. Remember you posted tape of those guys and when everybody chimed in saying the out of state guys looked better and the competition looked better you said you can't go off of tape. You then tried to justify Gabe McCoy having 18 sacks and Garcia Williams having only 6 sacks on the fact that Gabe faced inferior blocking schemes..Which you know is complete BS..The thread is still available for all to see...This isn't a knock on the Vegas kids, either..Its a knock on your inability to have an unbiased opinion.
I will give you credit for one thing though you are amazing at dodging questions so I will try again.Houston and Las Vegas are nearly same size in terms of population..Please post the number of FBS offers made to Houston area kids vs the number of FBS offers to Las Vegas kids.
Also how is it that there is a Rivals camp here in Las Vegas and the 'elite' athletes from here are going be participating yet somehow word of there amazing athletic prowess doesn't reach other schools around the country?
Will you accuse people here of having rose colored glasses when it comes to UNLV football. I think you have rose colored glasses when it comes to Las Vegas talent. Are there good players in Vegas? Of course..Just not as many FBS guys as you like to make it out to be...If they were that good somebody would find them..Players fall through the cracks and get missed not entire cities...
In a world where college football coaches are making millions of dollars, don't tell me that it is not a cut throat business. Gene Chizik won a national title and was fired from Auburn after 4 years. On top of that Auburn had to pay the man about 11 million dollars NOT TO coach. I would call that type of pressure cut throat. I would also say that coaches are going to send recruiters to look under a rock if they think there is a player under it.
I already destroyed your densely populated argument in two other threads when I mentioned both Michigan State and Michigan. Both of whom are in a densely populated state and still recruited predominantly outside of the state. If building teams meant simply recruiting out of a densely populated area then Houston should be one of the top programs in the nation year in and year out. Why isn't Maryland or even Syracuse a national powerhouse considering both are in densely populated states? Will we went over this and I pulled up the recruiting classes of both low population states and densely populated states. The medium number for in state recruits was around 25% except for a few exceptions which were Florida, Texas Ohio and California...
Post videos again of Chris Goree and Jamell Garcia-Williams and Gabe McCoy and have everybody on here watch those highlight films. I would be willing to bet that they would overwhelming say that not only was McCoy better but the talent and football being played around him was better. Post video of Andrew Peterson vs Xzavier Campbell or Lexington Thomas and again the overwhelming sentiment would be that the those two guys were better prospects and they played vs better opposition. Hell post Chris Goree's tape vs Loalagi. Post Al Lake tape as a defensive back vs Mouton. Want to bet who people would think was the better prospect and who was facing better opposition..Oh wait we did that in a thread already. Remember you posted tape of those guys and when everybody chimed in saying the out of state guys looked better and the competition looked better you said you can't go off of tape. You then tried to justify Gabe McCoy having 18 sacks and Garcia Williams having only 6 sacks on the fact that Gabe faced inferior blocking schemes..Which you know is complete BS..The thread is still available for all to see...This isn't a knock on the Vegas kids, either..Its a knock on your inability to have an unbiased opinion.
I will give you credit for one thing though you are amazing at dodging questions so I will try again.Houston and Las Vegas are nearly same size in terms of population..Please post the number of FBS offers made to Houston area kids vs the number of FBS offers to Las Vegas kids.
Also how is it that there is a Rivals camp here in Las Vegas and the 'elite' athletes from here are going be participating yet somehow word of there amazing athletic prowess doesn't reach other schools around the country?
Will you accuse people here of having rose colored glasses when it comes to UNLV football. I think you have rose colored glasses when it comes to Las Vegas talent. Are there good players in Vegas? Of course..Just not as many FBS guys as you like to make it out to be...If they were that good somebody would find them..Players fall through the cracks and get missed not entire cities...
