Make the argument that Sanchez should be retained if they lose Saturday to Reno.
One rule. You cannot say 'facility' or 'fundraising'.
One rule. You cannot say 'facility' or 'fundraising'.
Make the argument..
- Thread starter Bullmastiff 1
- Start date
We are getting new money and there’s a great building going up.
Thanks to @j.spilotro
Amended rules.
You cannot say, facilities, facility, building, training complex, Fertitta's, Fertitta, money, green, cash, booster, boosters, scratch, donation, donations.
Amended rules.
You cannot say, facilities, facility, building, training complex, Fertitta's, Fertitta, money, green, cash, booster, boosters, scratch, donation, donations.
There are a couple of reasons to keep him. Assets and resources would be improved. It’s not everyday people are willing to erect a top notch structure to put you on par with other high D1 programs. It’s not like there’s a vault of Franklins at UNLV. If Stations benefactors are willing to back it, do you really have a choice?
If you look at what we have, what we’ve done and where we are probably heading, no, you don’t keep him.
The things you don’t want us to mention are the only reasons to keep him.
Reno fired a Coach with a better record and after beating Sanchez for the cannon 2 years ago. Win or lose today Sanchez is the next Director of Food and Bev at Palace. If he stays then UNLV in Ruins is justified for all it cost.
The 12 high school commits are more than I can ever remember having by November and they are solid if you look at the recruiting sites. We even have four 3-star defensive recruits already, and usually our offense badly out-stars our defense in recruiting. The Windmon kid out of Louisiana could be for real. He plays LB, but also TE and yesterday stepped in at QB for his injured teammate who is also a UNLV commit.
In Hauck's final season we had one commit by season's end (Dalton Sneed).
All that don't mean jack if CTS and the staff can't develop them and translate them into Wins!
How about history? In 20 years in the mountain west this team has only finished with 4 wins or better half the time(10). CTS has 3 of those in 4 years. The history for this team is horrible and he seems to be doing better than many of the recent head coaches. So not including CTS 16 years 7 years with 4 or more wins less than half the time, CTS 3 out of 4 years 4 wins or above
Nice seeing you post here again. Also to make the post without using the above mentioned words CTS has won more games over a 4 year period than any coach at UNLV in a long time and is the first UNLV coach to win the cannon game in Las Vegas since JRob. Also you can throw in all the things you say we can't mention as reasons for keeping him just for good measure. He is also a great Las Vegas ambassador and isn't ashamed to go out and sell our school and city to recruits and their parents. Most active recruiter we have had in the last 30 yrs, doesn't just sit back to wait and see what is left over. I think he's a keeper!
I will accept this answer. Solid points.
My counter argument would be.
If you're making strides and you're recruiting is better, you don't get shellacked by UNM at home and SJSU on the road.
My second argument would be how much will they contribute next year? How many years do you talk about how great the recruiting is before it manifests itself into wins on the field.
I'm ecstatic for the win tonight, but for me personally, losing that SJSU game was inexcusable. There was still time to salvage the season.
Sanchez is probably safe. I hope he succeeds. I'm not one of those fans that roots against his own team just to come on a message board and say I told you so.
The win tonight was great. I'm just a bit jaded because this was not a 4 win team.
Pete I'm happy about tonight. I don't want to sully it by being negative.
That SJSU loss was inexcusable. I hope Tony proves me wrong.
But is he the coach that got run out of his own building by UNM and rolled by a terrible SJSU team or the guy that beat SDSU and Reno?
I was optimistic after the 1st 3 years. But this year seeing the same things plague the team. Another defense ranked outside the top 100 in total defense I've lost a lot of faith.
This win was great.
It doesn't erase 4 double digit losses. One of them to arguably the worst team in D1...
I still want to see what skipper can do now that recruits know he is here and who the d players would be playing for and the type of scheme. So far none of the players are skippers aggressive guys but Baers bend don’t break d.
Under Baer the recruiting on the defensive side was very weak. Some of their better defensive recruits while Baer was here were recruited directly by Sanchez (i.e. Gabe McCoy) or Cedric Cormier, and I think even you have commented on what a wash the '16 defensive class was for UNLV. For the most part Baer players are who Skipper had to work with this season. However I was unimpressed with the contribution the 3 JC-transfer defensive linemen (recruited under Skipper last spring) made this season. Hopefully Malcolm Johnson (Skipper's first recruit) will become a difference-maker next season and they can bring in some JC guys who will contribute.
Since the UNM game I have had no good argument to present to anyone who thinks Sanchez should go. I like CTS but I liked Hauck also up until that Northern Colorado "win". I don't think that Sanchez' job was on the line today, but tonight's win does make it a lot easier for the AD to stay quiet and wait for next season.
One of the best posts I have ever seen.
I hope Reno Community College had a nice ride home...
I think what you meant to say was under Sanchez the recruiting on defense was poor. As head coach he had veto powers.
And before we heap praise on Sanchez for his defensive recruiting prowess lets not forget.
This will be the fourth year the defense ranks outside the top 100.
2016 class of 27 players included only 10 players on defense. Only 10 despite defense being the biggest weakness on the team. Of those 10 only 2 remain and neither has contributed much.
This year, he whiffed on all three Juco DL players. None have contributed much at all.
Last night's win, makes it more difficult to fire Sanchez. Along with the money. It gives the AD an out.
It shouldn't. But it does.
UNLV shouldn't embrace mediocrity.
3-4-5-4 wins is mediocrity.
Unfortunately their options are thin.
Nothing on the field this year told me he is the right guy. For every Reno/SDSU, there is a SJSU, UNM, blowout losses to USU.
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DRF has been liking anything Sanchez on twitter since the win last night kinda tells you where her feeling is at regarding firing or keeping him.
To me the UNM loss was the worst. Coming off a bye. Sure it was Max's first game, but he is a JC transfer and had a extra week to prepare with him. UNM is not a good team and we got absolutely housed.. in our house. UNM is not a good team.
SJSU loss the second worse game. They had played and lost a bunch of games against some decent teams leading up to that game. In a way it felt like they were due. But that's not an excuse, more of an anecdote.
Max seemed to be a (on paper) pretty high level insurance program for the way we play Armani. Which is a good idea since they pound him like another RB. No excuse for him taking several games just to look passable (no pun intended) as a back up.
Being crushed by USU and Fresno doesn't hurt as bad as those 2 games. Both teams are really good this year. You hope that you play them somewhat competitive.
Exactly my point. You would hope by year 4 you were playing teams more competitively.
I'll have to double check but there were more double digit losses this year vs last.
Max Gilliam was a higher graded player than Armani coming out of HS. He had more D1 offers.
I'm more mad about the SJSU game, but the UNM game usn't far behind.
Under CTS, the Rebels have improved to a level in desire and mental toughness that far exceeds the Rebel teams under other head coaches for decades. When was the last time we went down 23-0 to begin a game under another Head Coach to battle back for a win against a good defense? And a Rivalry game to boot?
The last three games are solid proof of this. They could have mailed it in after the Fresno embarrassment. Instead, they manned up beat a solid SDSU in their crib, should have beaten Hawaii without the home cooking on the island and just beat one of the most improved teams in the nation and our rival after falling down 23-0.
There's lots to be improved upon, particularly on the defense and at QB coaching, but this program is FAR improved over what it was before CTS took over. Not just in total wins but in attitude and, very significantly, in the class room. All of that has happened in spite of the broken promises on assistant coaches' salaries & contract terms, facilities, recruiting budgets, etc.
The last three games are solid proof of this. They could have mailed it in after the Fresno embarrassment. Instead, they manned up beat a solid SDSU in their crib, should have beaten Hawaii without the home cooking on the island and just beat one of the most improved teams in the nation and our rival after falling down 23-0.
There's lots to be improved upon, particularly on the defense and at QB coaching, but this program is FAR improved over what it was before CTS took over. Not just in total wins but in attitude and, very significantly, in the class room. All of that has happened in spite of the broken promises on assistant coaches' salaries & contract terms, facilities, recruiting budgets, etc.
There’s the other side of the coin, though. Where you cite desire and mental toughness, I can cite Howard, at AFA, at UNR, UNM, SJSU, at Hawaii and probably at least one dozen others to demonstrate one or a combination of a lack of desire, toughness, focus or preparedness.
A good, fun win vs UNR, good wins at Fresno and SDSU don’t make up for the inexplicable losses and lack of competes in my mind.
Are we headed in the right direction? I have very heavy doubts.
Should he be fired? No.
3-4-5-4 is mediocre by all standards. It's not for UNLV and that's the problem.
Again, last night was great.
Doesn't erase all the bad from this year. And there was a lot of it.
There is no doubt things are better. No argument. I've long said Tony Sanchez will leave the program in better shape.
But better than what exactly. Hauck? Sanford? Horton? Nunley?
That bar is pretty low. Infrastructure will be much improved. But the on field results are still not good enough.
Yes it has been consistently poor. He does have veto powers but he can only veto the talent that his assistants find to offer.
With the injury to Dahdashtian I was really expecting one or two of those JC DL's to step up and be a factor. Nope.
My hope is that Skipper having a full year to recruit will start to make a difference, but as you say this year's HS recruits will take several years to pay off. In December the JC commits should start appearing. Three guys from Skipper's first class that I expected to contribute this season didn't much: Malcolm Johnson DE, Salu LB, and JC DB Luca Vartic (who was injured before the season; I think he committed before Skipper was hired). Those three need to step in next fall and have an impact.
I have been frustrated with the defense this season more than in the Baer years because I thought they would be better sooner. The jury is still out on Skipper. But he was hired in mid-January with only two full weeks before signing day, so most of the JC talent was already drained because those guys usually show up for the spring semester.
I've been frustrated with the play-calling and personnel usage on offense, but I don't know who calls the shots more, Sanchez or Cotton. Does DRF push Sanchez to replace Cotton? That is a tough situation, since those two go back to their NMSU days. Plus, after games like last night the offense seems healthy, and they were only held under 20 points twice all season. Then there's games like UNM, SJSU, and Hawaii where mediocre opponents seem to have defensive coordinators who have our "system" all figured out when it matters.
Agree with all this except the last part.
I'm not outright saying yes he should be fired, but there is strong enough evidence to make a compelling argument for it.
Disagree on several of those when it comes to mental toughness and desire. However, that's missing the point directed by the question in the OP. Teams under prior staffs were much weaker. The team is greatly improved in that area.
Then there's the improved number of wins over a 4 year period.
Finally, CTS took over a team that couldn't qualify for a Bowl game even if it did win over 6 FBS games and had suffered NCAA penalties for it's APR of 905 by receiving reductions in practice time to a much more respectable, but not great, APR of 935.
Those are three solid points in favor of retaining CTS if he hadn't beaten Reno. With the win over Reno, appears to be a no-brainer under the original parameters set forth by the OP.
The biggest problem is failing to take that into account. It may be mediocre by all standards but not at UNLV so you are only begging the question. It's like saying that Bill Snyder didn't do a very good job at Kansas State in his first 4 seasons because it was mediocre compared to the rest of the country. KSU fans wanted him fired after his 4th season where he ended up 5-6 yet in just three more years he led them to finish 6th in the Nation, eventually make them into a Conference Champion and repeatedly a Top 10 team. The fact is that what CTS has done is an improvement for UNLV. That is a fact that answers your very narrow and not very reasonable question with all of the artificially narrow limitations.
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Leadership is to fire CTS when you have an out BECAUSE you know he is not the guy. Last night was fun but not a reason to keep a mediocre coach.....
Sounds more like fiscal irresponsibility and malfeasance by an AD at UNLV if you don't have the money to fix all the other issues at the same time.
Never mind that this was one of the weakest schedules we have had in a long time. Sure Hawaii (and UNR) were better than expected, Ark State is a decent team, but that was known coming in to the season.
If there ever was a season to get bowl eligible this was the year. Next year is significantly more daunting. I'm worried with losing our top 3 running backs and some key defensive guys on a thin group to begin with.
This is another angle to the fire Sanchez now camp. We can all agree that its bowl or bust next year. But how many actually expect him to do it. I would love to say yes, but I just can't. And I tend to be one of the more optimistic guys out there.
So if he is more likely to fail next year, why not give the new guy an extra year to get going to give us a better chance at having a good season in the pivotal inaugural stadium year.
All that being said I agree that Sanchesz has earned the chance to get next year. But big picture, to me it seems all for naught.
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Looks at Fresno, if they were in this position. There is no question ask what’s coming down Monday. A well planned hiring can land you a Tedford. If Fresno can land a good coach like Tedford. UNLV can as well money or not.
Sadly the expectation and level of wanting to be succesful here is low. So let’s keep Sanchez for another year. UNLV football all we want is beat Reno. That’s it!
Sadly the expectation and level of wanting to be succesful here is low. So let’s keep Sanchez for another year. UNLV football all we want is beat Reno. That’s it!
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