Jim Mora

[Sam-I-am]

Talking about results not money.

But I was talking about money from the beginning and it remains pertinent. A lot less damage is caused when you are paying a HC who jumped from HS rather than the millions paid to hire a guy from the NFL and then buying him out. Nebraska was nearly ruined by Calihan coming in from the Raiders and just off of a Super Bowl. Cally ruined the program and then he was paid $3.5 M for 3 years after the moron was fired.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

But I was talking about money from the beginning and it remains pertinent. A lot less damage is caused when you are paying a HC who jumped from HS rather than the millions paid to hire a guy from the NFL and then buying him out. Nebraska was nearly ruined by Calihan coming in from the Raiders and just off of a Super Bowl. Cally ruined the program and then he was paid $3.5 M for 3 years after the moron was fired.

If the Sanchez experiment/gamble doesn't pay off, UNLV is going to have to find the money to get a high profile name hired. Something has to get done to get people out to games.

At some point they have to spend money. Or get lucky and catch a coach on the way up. Sanchez has one more year to make his case he's the guy. If he doesn't he'll be added to a long list of disappointing coaches at UNLV. With the exception that he was tied to money and got the facility built. If he does, its great for UNLV because it was low cost investment.

Whether you or I like Mora or not, at the very least he is a name people recognize, and it probably would have lead to some new interest in the program.

 

[Sam-I-am]

If the Sanchez experiment/gamble doesn't pay off, UNLV is going to have to find the money to get a high profile name hired. ...

Yes money will be needed. No doubt about it ... heck we've needed money for a very long time...but if we get it then don't waste it on a "high profile name" who was fired 3 times and couldn't recruit So Cal worth a lick when he was in charge at UCLA.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Yes money will be needed. No doubt about it ... heck we've needed money for a very long time...but if we get it then don't waste it on a "high profile name" who was fired 3 times and couldn't recruit So Cal worth a lick when he was in charge at UCLA.

Beggars can't be choosers unfortunately.

Money (or lack of it) may force peoples hands in decision making.

If we are being brutally honest, money is the main reason why Sanchez was hired to begin with. It was a desperation hire, by a school desperate for money.

(Not saying it won't pay off)

But if UNLV were in a better place financially they never make that hire.

They could be in the same boat next year. Money will be a big factor once again.

 

[RebelScrub]

We have no money to compete with other schools in football..

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

We have no money to compete with other schools in football..

Or basketball for that matter.

 

[Rebel1986]

We do when we move into the new stadium. I believe UNLV will receive $3 million per year for a specified number of years to pay for the events that will move from Sam Boyd to the new stadium. This money can be used to pay coaching staff.

 

[Sam-I-am]

We do when we move into the new stadium. I believe UNLV will receive $3 million per year for a specified number of years to pay for the events that will move from Sam Boyd to the new stadium. This money can be used to pay coaching staff.

Which isn't much but it's better than nothing.

 

[Rebel1986]

Not much? $3 million a year is more than UNLV pays all of the head coaches from both men's and women's sports combined.

 

[lvrebalum2012]

Not much? $3 million a year is more than UNLV pays all of the head coaches from both men's and women's sports combined.

Does that money have to go towards operating expenses for game at the new stadium? Isn’t UNLV on the hook for that?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Does that money have to go towards operating expenses for game at the new stadium? Isn’t UNLV on the hook for that?

That's how I understood it.

 

[Rebel1986]

The operating cost per game is far lower than that.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

The operating cost per game is far lower than that.

I don't think he was saying per game.

An article from 2013 said it was between 75-85k per game at Sam Boyd.

I think this is low but let's say new stadium costs 100k per game.

So around 600k comes right off the top of that 3 mil.

 

[Mark Anderson UNLV]

A UCLA booster.

Not sure if the connection was tied to Desiree or Mora or both.

Desiree wants P5 job.

Needs a hire on resume.

Mora was in fact on campus around time of SJSU loss.

Money was only for Sanchez buyout and Mora. Not beyond that (facility etc).

Acting President had final say.

Not sure how much uncertainty with Menzies future played into it.

Fertitta's ensured the completion of facility.

I'm sure there are other layers to it, but that's the gist of it.

 

[Mark Anderson UNLV]

Yep. Fact

 

[karaoke_jesus]

A UCLA booster.

Not sure if the connection was tied to Desiree or Mora or both.

Desiree wants P5 job.

Needs a hire on resume.

Mora was in fact on campus around time of SJSU loss.

Money was only for Sanchez buyout and Mora. Not beyond that (facility etc).

Acting President had final say.

Not sure how much uncertainty with Menzies future played into it.

Fertitta's ensured the completion of facility.

I'm sure there are other layers to it, but that's the gist of it.

If the facility money was guaranteed I probably would have pulled the trigger on that deal.

 

[willlevi]

First time I've read this thread but I would at a note on the UCLA recruiting debate.
UCLA has the second or third toughest academic recruiting standards in the Pac 12. Most kids in the recruiting pool of Los Angeles won't qualify for admission to the school.
Its like Cal and Stanford, there are a lot of player that they can't touch which make UCLA a tough job because you can't just recruit the best talent, you have to exclude the players that can't meet the standards.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

If the facility money was guaranteed I probably would have pulled the trigger on that deal.

Money for facility in conjunction with Mora?

Yeah I think you make that move.

Money just for Mora?. Nah. I think you stick with Sanchez and hope last season was a bump in the road.

Sanchez' plan/vision on building the program is the right one. I have no doubt.

That said...

I question his ability on Saturdays or the week leading up to games in terms of game planning and prepping his team. I could be wrong, but I don't see him as a coach that influences games very much.. Way way to many 2nd half collapses and blow out losses to bad teams or teams UNLV should be able to compete with.

Let this season play out. If Sanchez rights the ship...Great...

If not oh well on to the next guy.

Hopefully there is a contingency plan in place to get money together to make a hire that generates some interest and puts butts in seats.

 

[Sam-I-am]

First time I've read this thread but I would at a note on the UCLA recruiting debate.
UCLA has the second or third toughest academic recruiting standards in the Pac 12. Most kids in the recruiting pool of Los Angeles won't qualify for admission to the school....

Mostly a myth. It's not more difficult to get into UCLA, which is a CAL public school, than it is to get into Stanford, USC, Washington, most B1G schools, many SEC schools, The Domers, etc.

 

[willlevi]

Mostly a myth. It's not more difficult to get into UCLA, which is a CAL public school, than it is to get into Stanford, USC, Washington, most B1G schools, many SEC schools, The Domers, etc.

Its not a myth, they exclude tons of players that can't enroll due to not meeting the academic standards. With you also including Stanford, I can't even figure out how you concluded your opinion.
Being a general FBS qualifier won't get you in those programs.
That's also one of the misunderstandings for kids that feel they are Power 5 prospects on the West Coast, academics are the name of the game in this region unlike the South

https://www.thoughtco.com/sat-scores-for-the-pac-12-conference-788633

https://www.thoughtco.com/sat-score-mountain-west-conference-788629

https://www.thoughtco.com/sat-scores-for-the-southeastern-conference-788640

https://www.thoughtco.com/sat-scores-for-admission-to-the-big-ten-788620

https://www.thoughtco.com/sat-scores-for-the-big-12-conference-788616

 

[lvhiker]

What we really need to see is the SAT or ACT scores for mens basketball and football. The scores for the general population of students are going to be different, read higher, than the scores for the revenue sports.

Stanford and Cal are most likely going to have Student Athletes with better scores than SEC schools but I would LOVE to see the data.

 

[Rebel1986]

All schools have lower requirements for players or students if they really want them in their schools. I went to school with a student, whose family was a major casino owner and a huge donor to USC. He flunked out of UNLV, but magically the next year he ended up going to school at USC and getting great grades.

 

[RebelScrub]

Or basketball for that matter.

Simply not true. Menzies is just an awful coach.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Simply not true. Menzies is just an awful coach.

Who said he wasn't?

UNLV wouldn't pony up to keep Kruger. They couldn't win bidding wars for the services of Dixon or Cronin.

So money is an issue for basketball as well.

 

[willlevi]

The links I listed are NCAA enrollee requirements, not the general population. They don't give passes on the minimum academic requirements.

What we really need to see is the SAT or ACT scores for mens basketball and football. The scores for the general population of students are going to be different, read higher, than the scores for the revenue sports.

Stanford and Cal are most likely going to have Student Athletes with better scores than SEC schools but I would LOVE to see the data.

 

[dcut03]

Isn't it fair to say that UCLA is a tough place to win?

They haven't really been very good since I could remember. they've had a couple of decent years sprinkled in there. Look at Chip Kelly. It's hard to argue with his pedigree and he is struggling, at least so far. Mora probably has had more success than most given their recent history.

That hometown recruiting advantage argument doesn't seem to hold up historically.

 

[dcut03]

Did some digging, yup I was right.

Coaches winning percentages over the past 20 years.
Kelly 25.0%
Mora 60.5%
42.0% Neuheisel
56.4% Dorrell
60.5% Toledo.

Toledo was the most successful in the past 20 years. 2 conference championships and double win seasons. He got to take over a winning program from Donahue when he retired. Yet despite all fo that Mora won the same % of games. That with taking over a falling program from Neuheisel.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Its not a myth, they exclude tons of players that can't enroll due to not meeting the academic standards. With you also including Stanford, I can't even figure out how you concluded your opinion.
Being a general FBS qualifier won't get you in those programs.
.....

Clearly you aren't aware of "special admits" but I concluded my opinion based upon years of knowing HS football players going to CAL and UCLA who were "special admits". This is why you're still wrong. The only PAC 12 school that does NOT allow for "special admits" for football is Stanford. USC uses them but far less than UCLA which actually gives UCLA and advantage over local kids.
Being a FBS qualifier under the NCAA rules is all a football prospect needs to get into either UCLA or CAL under the NCAA rules and both of them provide "special admits" to prospects that would allow them to enter UCLA and CAL for a football scholarship. A fairly recent study shows that UCLA & CAL grant the highest differentials for "special admits" compared to the rest of the student body. In fact, "California, in 2004 reported that 95 percent of its freshman football players on scholarship were special admits...compared with 2 percent of the student body."
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/colleg...-football-a-report-on-all-the-special-admits/

Other Power 5 football programs that use "special admits" a lot include >
Gators
A$M
whorns
State Penn
Miami



In direct comparison to UCLA & CAL, the following power 5 schools rarely use "special admits" for football signees:
Northwestern
Duke
Michigan
Wisconsin
Purdue
Kansas
Vandy
Georgia Tech
Domers

 

[Sam-I-am]

....Stanford and Cal are most likely going to have Student Athletes with better scores than SEC schools but I would LOVE to see the data.

Unfortunately, all of the schools report this to the NCAA under seal now due primarily to HIPPA and privacy laws. It's fairly well known that Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, Vanderbilt, Michigan, Wisconsin and Purdue are on a level all of their own. Bama is a lot better than people believe in general while CAL & UCLA are lower than expected.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Isn't it fair to say that UCLA is a tough place to win?

They haven't really been very good since I could remember. they've had a couple of decent years sprinkled in there. Look at Chip Kelly. It's hard to argue with his pedigree and he is struggling, at least so far. Mora probably has had more success than most given their recent history.

That hometown recruiting advantage argument doesn't seem to hold up historically.

They were very good back in the 60s but their admins refused to keep up with USC in football budget wise. This put them into a secondary level regarding football. They admitted it during the hiring of Rick Neuheisel while I was working on his contract and we made facility improvements part of the contract, which they didn't do until Rick's final year.

Money used to be a bigger issue with them until then. Interesting note >
the UCLA by-laws used to prohibit paying any coach, including hoops, more than the highest paid Dean of the University.

 

[RebelScrub]

Let’s use some logic from the FBI probes.

Players get paid no matter what school.

Look at the SEC, their waterboys would start at our school.

Conclusion :$EC pays their kids. I get it..

UNLV..only way we would have gotten big is of prime Suge Knight was roaming the side lines dishing out hundreds for every tackle and fumble recovery.

We don’t have a big time boosters in football.

There is no money in football to be successful. We are gonna have the nicest stadium in all of division 1

 

[Sam-I-am]

Who said he wasn't?

UNLV wouldn't pony up to keep Kruger. They couldn't win bidding wars for the services of Dixon or Cronin.

So money is an issue for basketball as well.

Probably a bigger issue for basketball since we do have a very good tradition in hoops. Football absolutely costs more but a great coach in hoops "can" turn a program around in hoops very quickly because it can be done with freshmen and transfers quite quickly. Hate to say it but Reno is an excellent example of this in hoops.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Did some digging, yup I was right.

Coaches winning percentages over the past 20 years.
Kelly 25.0%
Mora 60.5%
42.0% Neuheisel
56.4% Dorrell
60.5% Toledo.

Toledo was the most successful in the past 20 years. 2 conference championships and double win seasons. He got to take over a winning program from Donahue when he retired. Yet despite all fo that Mora won the same % of games. That with taking over a falling program from Neuheisel.

Mora benefitted a lot from the cash infusion that began in the last year of RN's tenure and has continued to this day. His inability to capitalize on it while USC was on the ropes is the reason why he was let go after 2 losing seasons. However, it does show to a minor amount how much an infusion of cash into UCLA helped right off the bat. Mora jumped to 9 & 10 wins seasons with RN's players and great local recruiting by a very well paid staff but after they were gone, he declined to winning just 4 games and was fired after 2 losing seasons.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Let’s use some logic from the FBI probes.

Players get paid no matter what school.

Look at the SEC, their waterboys would start at our school.

Conclusion :$EC pays their kids. I get it..

UNLV..only way we would have gotten big is of prime Suge Knight was roaming the side lines dishing out hundreds for every tackle and fumble recovery.

We don’t have a big time boosters in football.

There is no money in football to be successful. We are gonna have the nicest stadium in all of division 1

Bama is in another universe. We can become a good but not great program but it will take money and time.

 

[dcut03]

Not as easy to transfer with football. Kids take time to develop physically more than basketball. New coaches tend to deal with less fallout when a coach change occurs in terms of roster attrition. There can be quicker turnarounds in football if the inherited roster fits what they want to do, or if the coach is willing to adapt to the players that he has.

Sure the SEC and many big programs in the Big 12 pay their players. Probably a select few in the PAC, but probably not all. Not a lot of money being dished out in the group of 5 schools. Sure it happens, but not nearly to the extent.

Investing in football is not a lost cause. They have already committed enough with the practice facility that they might as well go all in at this point.

Football has more revenue potential. It also has significantly higher costs. Sometimes to have to spend money to make money.

 

[Sam-I-am]

....

Sure the SEC, ACC, many big programs in the Big 12 and tOSU pay their players. ....

FIFY

 

[dcut03]

Probably a bigger issue for basketball since we do have a very good tradition in hoops. Football absolutely costs more but a great coach in hoops "can" turn a program around in hoops very quickly because it can be done with freshmen and transfers quite quickly. Hate to say it but Reno is an excellent example of this in hoops.

I get it now. You worked for Neuheisel. Obviously some kind of connection with Sanchez. It all makes sense.

Still had the best winning percentage in the past 20 years.

He also had a winning record in Atlanta and made it to a NFC championship game. With a mobile QB no less.

This is all for naught. I agree with the decision to go with funding of a practice facility over the funding for a coach. The facility will last forever. Any coach is a crap shoot.

But Mora is/was a good candidate. He has name recognition and would excite some of the fans. If CTS gets fired, I wonder if he would still be in the cards, likely not I'm guessing.

I hope CTS turns a corner. I really do. I really hope we can capitalize on the opening of a new stadium. A bowl-less season with CTS won't do it. Some unnamed up and comer won't do it either. But some legit excitement for this program coupled with the stadium could create some lasting buzz.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Not much? $3 million a year is more than UNLV pays all of the head coaches from both men's and women's sports combined.

It's less than the salary of over 45 NCAA football coaches next season and less than the salary of 15 NCAA Basketball coaches next season

 

[Sam-I-am]

I get it now. You worked for Neuheisel. Obviously some kind of connection with Sanchez. It all makes sense.....

I don't think you get it because you're making false assumptions and don't know the whole story. There's a lot more to it, but that's OK.

Mora would be a horrible candidate. He has taken over far better situations and screwed them up to the point of being fired each time and each of those were rebuilding jobs. UNLV isn't a rebuilding job. If TS is fired, UNLV needs to be built from the bottom up. History has shown that the best method of doing that at the FBS level is to hire an OC or DC from a very good program that was ran by a very good HC. That's how KSU went from being the laughing stock of college football to a Top 25 program that occasionally was a Top 10 team. We need to find the next Bill Snyder and Mora isn't even close.

 

[RebelScrub]

We need an NFL hall of famer coach, that’s our next coach after CTS..

NFL has hella high turnover rate these days.

Do you guys realize we hit lucky gold to have John Robinson as our coach. I hated his 3 and outs but our defense was acceptable.

We can hit it again with the right hire.

Going pro NFL is the only way to go with the next hire.