It's just the poaching fee. What that paragraph also speaks of is a departure fee. That fee is not relevant. It would only apply if you, meaning the Pac-2, left during the Scheduling Agreement.
IF REMAINING MWC TEAMS WERE SMART
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Yeah, I think I misinterpreted the last portion of into meaning “departing PAC 12 members” as if the MW teams leaving were actually PAC members since they had accepted. My bad.
Ok. Confusing as hell. So the "Departure fee" is moot since the Pac/MW did not renew the scheduling agreement?
Termination fee, Departure fee, Withdrawal fee? Geezus. Gobbletygook, eh?
Hey Coug, did you have to create a new rivals account to post on the Rebel page? I went over to the WS forum and was going to jump in on a conversation but it says I have insufficient privileges to reply.
No, I used my same Rivals account. Did you go to the "Cougar Lair" board? Should be able to post no problem. I'm a premium member now, but was able to post there (and over here) before that as just a registered member. Maybe Meister can assist us.
If I’m reading correctly the “withdrawal fee” is the termination fee… I’m pretty sure.
The MW by laws state that the departure fee to be paid by MW teams leaving is to be paid prior to the “effective date”, which would be June of 2026, BUT all distributions to departing institutions will be withheld to be applied to that payment.
So I’m not sure when those distributions occur, but those four have seen their last payments from the MW.
How much money can UNLV collect between now and June 30, 2025 when they’d have to give notice?
Just navigate on this screen to the top right where it says colleges. Go down the drop down list to Pac-12. Then select Washington State from that next drop down list. WazzuWatch will now open on a new screen. Select Cougar Lair from the forum list. You should now be logged on with the same user name that you have on Rebel-Net.
yeah, I went in the Cougar Lair, and opened the "Lots of stuff- Ole miss, Tulane/Memphis, UNLV/AF" thread but it doesn't give me an option to reply.
Maybe they banned me from the last time I was snooping around, who knows?
Yeah, I did that, and it shows me logged in with the same user name, but won't allow me to do anything.
Your shit is ****ed up. I navigated over to that thread and clicked on reply and it works fine.
If I'm getting 10 million a year and you are getting 1.5 million a year on media revenue I'm at an immediate advantage.
Secondly the success of the program is driven in part by money.
Conference affiliation creates ceilings for programs.
A team from the Sun Belt is never going to win a national title. They are also very unlikely to get into the new CFP even if they run the table. Their conference affiliation (weaker conference schedule) will get them passed over by another G5 who may have one loss.
So looking ahead.
PAC has their current 6 plus add UTSA, MEMPHIS,TULANE, USF.
MWC somehow cobbles together NMSU Texas State, North Texas and let's say Sam Houston State.
Boise goes 12-0 wins PAC
UNLV Also goes 12-0 wins MWC
Who gets the group of 5 bid?
Likely Boise based on tougher schedule.
More realistic scenario.
Both go 11-1. Boise still gets in. Now they start filling the 12 team playoffs.
Boise in. SEC champ in. ACC champ in. SEC champ in. BIG 10 Champ in. Big 12 Champ in. No way the powers that be aren't putting in the next best teams from the Big10 and SEC in. Those 12 spots are going to fill up quick and no way a second G5 program is going to get the nod.
The one saving grace to that is the G5 play in tournament/game that has been suggested for that last playoff spot. That sounds good if you aren't in the best G5. Sounds bad if you are in the best G5 conference.
I think this year the MW is the best mostly die to the top of the conference.
You think Alabama or anyone in the SEC wants to see that happen?
I hope it does but skeptical we see more than 1 G5 program get in barring something crazy like 2 undefeated G5 teams that win their conference. Even then I 'Oh we think 2 loss Ole Miss deserves that spot their schedule is just so much tougher than NMSU or Liberty'.
Just curious how you think they will offset the travel cost for Memphis, USC, and Tulane for their other sports? By the time you figure in the millions in additional travel cost for all the other athletic programs at Tulane and Memphis, it could end up as closer to a wash unless they get a large increase in TV contract money from a conference that doesn't currently have a single ranked team and no TV contract.
Tulane had an attendance average of 25,021 in 2023 and are located in a relatively small market in New Orleans when you look at the fact they must compete with LSU for attendance and viewership which is located just up the street in Baton Rouge, as well as many other smaller universities located within the state that also compete for the same market. I lived in Louisiana, and LSU is King while every other school is an afterthought. They would bring very little to a new TV contract.
Memphis is a possible decent market with a game attendance is 2023 of around 29K. They also have the same issue as Tulane in the fact that the University of Tennessee controls most of the state, and Memphis is an afterthought that has been trying to increase their market for decades without a lot of luck with a few exceptions. Memphis averaged 38,668 in attendance back in 2003 and then went up in down bottoming out at 20,078 in 2010 and peaked at 43,802 in 2014. Since then they have been on a steady decline and averaged just over 29K in 2023. While they do bring some value to a new TV contract, they would need millions of additional funds just to offset the travel cost for all the other athletic teams.
The PAC TV deal for 2026 is not even in place, nobody has any idea what that equates to 2 years down the road. Where is the $10MM coming from?
All the P12 is, is a brand name. I mean I get what you're saying, but it's not as strong nationally as you think. We all know most of the rest of the USA thought the previous P12 was ass already and now it has a bunch of MWC and AAC teams with Wazzu and Oregon State? Meh.
There is also no reasonable assumption UNLV's going to stick it out in the MWC.
I don't think the SEC cares.
It wouldn't change anything for them. It would another game or playoff to get into the 12 playoff, the final spot. Similar to the first four we currently have. At least that is how I interpretted it.
I haven't seen a play in for an additional spot, say the best remaining non conference champion?
From a media perspective, I think these mega conferences are going to run dry. The calculus changes with streaming vs linear media.
It’s incredibly expensive to maintain a streaming service. My company hasn’t figured out a way to make it profitable, or even self sustaining yet. Money for these $30m+ per school media deals is going to concentrate to the biggest and most profitable 3 conferences, while everyone else will fight for whats left.
While I do believe a Pac is absolutely an upgrade vs what we have now; it might not be the upgrade we all want it to be. I have a hard time believing that the new media deal for the pac will reach the $12m per year per school that they want in its current format.
It’s incredibly expensive to maintain a streaming service. My company hasn’t figured out a way to make it profitable, or even self sustaining yet. Money for these $30m+ per school media deals is going to concentrate to the biggest and most profitable 3 conferences, while everyone else will fight for whats left.
While I do believe a Pac is absolutely an upgrade vs what we have now; it might not be the upgrade we all want it to be. I have a hard time believing that the new media deal for the pac will reach the $12m per year per school that they want in its current format.
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There is some logical reasoning, at least for me. Could the PAC 2 be the biggest swindlers ever? Perhaps, but that seems to be somewhat unlikely.
Teams do not bolt for new conferences without having some idea of what that TV contract will be. It is arguable to SOLE reason realignment even happens these days. It seems to have very little to do with regionality, historical rivals, etc.
The PAC 2 could have easily merged/reverse merged with the MW. Those 2 additions along with everyone else would have likely pushed the total payout per school to 6-7 million I would guess.
Boise jumped ship and they make more than everyone else in the MW, so at the very least the new PAC should be getting more than that easily. Especially when considering the possible fees they may have to at least partially pay.
No secret that the PAC is targeting AAC schools including Memphis. Memphis currently gets 7 mil per year, though the long term stability of that is threatened. But then you factor in travel costs.
It would be extremely foolish to approach Memphis with any confidence without offering at the very least 9 mil per year. Probably at least 10.
There were reports before this happened that a rebuilt PAC, which included UNLV and Air Force could get 15 mil per year. But who knows how accurate that was.
But I think 10+ is a pretty safe bet. Why would the PAC 2 willingly give up at the very least 43 million dollars to create their own conference by raiding the MW if their contract wasn't at least significantly better that what they would have gotten by merging? It has to be a substantial bump for this to make any type of financial sense. They could have simply joined the MW in some fashion, and kept all of their PAC money they netted from being raided themselves.
There are early projections based on markets already in play. Ross Dellenger wrote article today saying those projections are upwards of 10 million dollars.
MWC is at 3 million per now. That number is going down next negotiations based on who we lost.
AAC number was at 7 or 9 million per team, based on a contract that was written with UH, CINCY, MEMPHIS, UCF, SMU in the conference. That contract is not going to be renewed at anywhere near that number.
For chuckles let's assume PAC adds just Tulane and Memphis.
Put that conference up against the MWC and tell me who's getting the bigger media rights deal, remembering the MWC current contract was created with four of the teams no longer here and now in the PAC.
There's no way if things play out like that the MWC conference is getting a similiar media deal. They just aren't.
So yes conference matters because money matters.
And if AFA to AAC rumors are true MWC no longer qualifies as a conference. They are under 8.
I do not think UNLV can continue to build on what Odom started if we get relegated to somewhere like CUSA or a depleted AAC.
You say merge easily but every interview with the new commissioner points to her not wanting to do that. If it was easy it would've been done. She wanted to have both all the money or a large portion of it and get a larger tv deal cut to join and when the MWC turned around and said you need us, she flipped to trying to break them apart. There is assumptions a tv deal was ar least discussed but we also know Boise and SDSU think very highly of themselves and could easily be sold to join a new conference whose outlook has potential to be better than MWC for them if they defect. Then she offered to pay their fees so it became a no brainer... the problem now is you have 2-4 other programs asking for same deal and money gets tight, plus whatever assurances and promises were made to the 4 defectors... it's not easy
I feel like I'm watching a rerun of Get Smart. Question is, who is Maxwell Smart and who is Agent 99? Gloria or Teresa?
Of course Teresa wanted to keep The Pac alive - otherwise she would have been knocking on Gloria's door begging for a job in 2 years. We still need to know what the Pac offered in terms of help with the exit fees. This notion of UNLV (and maybe AF and/or Wyoming?) hanging around to collect poaching fees and an increased share of conference revenue (withholdings from your Traitorous 4) then bolting later brings some intrigue to all of this. The TBD "exit fees" for Memphis/Tulane or whoever from the AAC adds to the intrigue.
So here's my "maybe" scenario: UNLV (and maybe the afore-mentioned AF and/or Wyoming or SJSU or even USU) have a secret handshake deal to join the Pac after they get some poaching, etc. money. The Pac offers Memphis and Tulane on a "figure out what your exit fee is then let's talk more" level. The Pac whispers to The CW or others, and they start to hash out a tentative TV deal.
There are so many "what if" scenarios right now, who really knows. I guess if it came down to it, the PAC could add 2 crappy schools if needed, just to get to 8 teams. Then, once the new MWC media agreement gets worked out, with teams getting less money, I would think that the MWC would amend the exit fees, as they're not in line with the amount of money that the conference is bringing in, then teams could bounce after that.
I'm not totally disagreeing with you.
But if the previous PAC was meh..Then what is the current MWC.
I'm not saying UNLV is or isn't going to stay in MWC.
Let's say they don't.
Now what?
AAC? CUSA? Neither of those can be viewed as a step up from current MWC.
BIG12? Yes please..100% hope it happens everyday, because it would be huge for revenue and recruiting. But I'm not sure it's in the cards.
So I stand by if UNLV is boxed out of new PAC and there is no BIG12 invite their options aren't great. And any momentum Odom had created could be difficult to sustain.
Well since we (WAZZUWATCH) haven't had an Admin or moderator for years, I doubt that. The last Admin we had banned me 5-6 years ago for some unseemly posts towards another poster (he got banned too) so I lurked around for years and then reinvented myself as Loyal Coug1.Maybe they banned me from the last time I was snooping around, who knows?
Try again. If you are logged in to Rivals, you should be fine. In desperation, make your post here and have Meister copy and paste/post on your behalf. Would love to see some of you guys converse with the gang of ostrich heads I have to try to reason with.
Maybe I'll try logging out entirely, then back on directly in the Wazzu site. Just have to make sure I remember my password ...Well since we (WAZZUWATCH) haven't had an Admin or moderator for years, I doubt that. The last Admin we had banned me 5-6 years ago for some unseemly posts towards another poster (he got banned too) so I lurked around for years and then reinvented myself as Loyal Coug1.
Try again. If you are logged in to Rivals, you should be fine. In desperation, make your post here and have Meister copy and paste/post on your behalf. Would love to see some of you guys converse with the gang of ostrich heads I have to try to reason with.
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If that's the case that's wild... I think behind the scenes if I was Memphis, I'd be talking to UNLV and trying to package ourselves to the Big 12 together. We're both critical to any of the 3 conferences being legit... why not band together and try and upsale ourselves... heck the Big 12 could do a 4 team expansion with 2 football/basketball combos and Gonzaga/UCONN... they aren't getting ACC teams anytime soon as it appears they're holding themselves together. So why wait to get poached when you can solidify yourselves with the last 2 best remaining future football programs and 2 premier basketball teams as well...
If our tv numbers really are as bad as reported, we may seriously be in trouble. I think we may need a reality check to stay humble
My home is not the only one. We dont pay anything but internet services. I watched everything that is on TV without paying for it.
And I hate commercials. So most of the there is no commercials interruptions. I would get a blank screen until the commercials are over.
UNLV teaming up with Memphis is out of the box thinking, and isn't that bad of an idea!
Maybe, just maybe the PAC commission didn't want to merge because she would be out of the job.
But the WAZZU and OSU would be pretty dumb to let something that obvious get in the way.
Not one conference realignment move in the past 10 years has bot been done without an obvious financial improvement. These deals are known. They make these deals with heavy TV exec advice. The SDSU AD simply said as much.
You don't turn down a merger and keep millions of dollars with other exit fees and turn around and pay 43 million dollars and probably more with other exit fees without knowing you have a significant better TV deal in your back pocket.
The deal could have easily been done and it looked like it was going to happen. We did the one year scheduling agreement and the PAC agreed to pay extra fees if they poached our teams. Why do that if they never thought they would merge?
Then they realized how bad the bottom of our league affects everyone's bottom line. Then crunched numbers. And here we are
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