Assuming Hawaii gets done..Then what?

[Bullmastiff 1]

There isnt a perfect solution and thats what the Pac 12 are finding out as well. They all chose to cripple themselves potentially vs conference opponents by the terms they signed on for, with unbalanced payouts for CFP and NCAA credits. Their banking on a trade off that the teams included in the deal will help drive up the media market price, but they failed to factor in that just about every team not named Boise they added are awful this year when they need to be out negotiating the TV deals. They had to give away the equal tournament credit distribution to attract Gonzaga and SDSU. Now they are finding out same as us, that there arent a lot of valuable dance partners across the G5 landscape and the ones who are, are locked into their current spots and arent willfully budging. Were lucky in that we only needed 2 new partners to legitimize our conference in the NCAA eyes and from a dollars and value perspective, it was easy to add UTEP and potentially make Hawaii a full sport partner. That doesn't necessarily cripple the MWC, while it wont be the standalone top tier as it currently really is across both football and basketball, its still a potentially top tier G5.
Meanwhile the Pac 12 needs to add 1 team, but theyve already compromised their original values to create the top tiered conference, the product they brought is woefully underwhelming this year, and they couldnt secure the bigger fishes they wanted and now that the contract terms are public, theyre probably going to have a harder time attracting filler tier programs. It sucks that instead of being the best conference far and above, they thought they could cut the dead weight, give themselves competitive advantages financially, and everyone would just play ball and join in...

I agree with a lot of that except SDSU/FRESNO are massive markets so their middling results really don't matter in terms of media packages. They've been good enough in the past. We are what? Three years removed from SDSU being if not top dog sharing that with Boise? CSU again middling results but big TV market. USU is the anomaly, but they've had steady results.

To get Memphis and it make any financial sense I have to imagine it would require paying majority if not all of their exit fee and a Media deal around 12 million per. That would be 3 million more than current AAC deal. Seems like a lot of that would get eaten up in travel costs.

They absolutely appear to have over played their hand.

One thing about the deal UNLV agreed to stay in MWC I'm not sure about is the lump sum and subsequent 1.5 million dollar payments. How I understood it was that 1.5 was to compensate UNLV for potential media rights shortfall.

What I don't know is let's say MWC somehow scrapes together a media deal equal to the 5 million the get now. Does UNLV still get that 1.5 million per year on top of the media deal? Or was that simply a safety net?

 

[rebelzzz]

There really isnt any teams to grab that help increase the tv deal. Stay how the MWC is now with making hawaii a full member, if any team is added only add one team no reason at all to go past 9 football teams. Just too many mouths to feed and not enough bread.
If you want to try and strengthen the basketball in the MWC i could see adding St Marys and Grand Canyon but if you do plan on adding their olympic sports also because their current conferences wont want whats left when their basketball teams leave. At that point is it worth it?

 

[Rebel1986]

I agree with a lot of that except SDSU/FRESNO are massive markets so their middling results really don't matter in terms of media packages. They've been good enough in the past. We are what? Three years removed from SDSU being if not top dog sharing that with Boise? CSU again middling results but big TV market. USU is the anomaly, but they've had steady results.

To get Memphis and it make any financial sense I have to imagine it would require paying majority if not all of their exit fee and a Media deal around 12 million per. That would be 3 million more than current AAC deal. Seems like a lot of that would get eaten up in travel costs.

They absolutely appear to have over played their hand.

One thing about the deal UNLV agreed to stay in MWC I'm not sure about is the lump sum and subsequent 1.5 million dollar payments. How I understood it was that 1.5 was to compensate UNLV for potential media rights shortfall.

What I don't know is let's say MWC somehow scrapes together a media deal equal to the 5 million the get now. Does UNLV still get that 1.5 million per year on top of the media deal? Or was that simply a safety net?

I think you made a mistake regarding Fresno being a massive market?

 

[Rebel1986]

There really isnt any teams to grab that help increase the tv deal. Stay how the MWC is now with making hawaii a full member, if any team is added only add one team no reason at all to go past 9 football teams. Just too many mouths to feed and not enough bread.
If you want to try and strengthen the basketball in the MWC i could see adding St Marys and Grand Canyon but if you do plan on adding their olympic sports also because their current conferences wont want whats left when their basketball teams leave. At that point is it worth it?

While St. Mary is a small school, and thus not much use in most of their other sports, Grand Canyon would be near the top or at the top in most sports.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

You can get away with a 7 game conference slate in football. Adding one more noncon football game is pretty easy to do. Trying to add more basketball games in conference season will be tough. It will likely be quad 4 exclusively. Either that or make the non con very rough without much rest. We struggle enough to get decent games during the rodeo.

I get having to protect the conference for the future. But we are in a bit of a financial crises now. Add teams when it is required and not before. Unless you can get a school that is at least as good as the mean MW team. But even that, it needs to be as good as the mean CURRENT MW team. Which basically means Utah State.

Sure reach out to Liberty and WKU and see if they bite. But Liberty trying to travel to 4+ MW teams a year from Virginia is very rough, probably not worth it for them. Kentucky isn't that much better.

We added UTEP.

They aren't the mean in CUSA much less MWC. 🙂

 

[dcut03]

We added UTEP.

They aren't the mean in CUSA much less MWC. 🙂

Oh I agree, which is why we need to be discerning with who we added. We replaced our top 4 markets with a team that is in the bottom third of our current orientation.

Which is why I will be suprised if we get 6mil a year

 

[Jason Kelly]

Getting Hawaii done is paramount obviously but after that then what.

Saw adding Hawaii as full member could keep MWC media deal around 5-6 million. Amazing what the degenerate gambler demographic adds to your media market value.

CUSA teams seem the most likely potential additions but not sure how much any would add to a media package. There are some interesting Sun Belt teams but honestly unless you could add a minimum of at least 4 'Eastern' schools not sure it makes much sense for any to join financially without travel partners.

NMSU seems a natural fit but being only 100k population in Las Cruces and only 50 miles from El Paso they probably don't add much for a media deal. UTEP despite their struggles was the better choice based purely off their population vs NMSU.

Sam Houston State gets you a second team in Texas and they are playing decent football.

La Tech probably a no.

Western Kentucky would be a good get and increase conference footprint but would need travel partners.

There just aren't many West options really.

Not sure even as football only Toledo and NIU make a lot of sense. Feels like you would need a few more 'Eastern' teams as travel partners for it to make sense.

8 with Hawaii full member gets MWC to the magic number but means teams are going to need 5 OOC games which isn't ideal.

To me I would do Tarleton and Sac State

 

[Masked_rebel]

I agree with a lot of that except SDSU/FRESNO are massive markets so their middling results really don't matter in terms of media packages. They've been good enough in the past. We are what? Three years removed from SDSU being if not top dog sharing that with Boise? CSU again middling results but big TV market. USU is the anomaly, but they've had steady results.

To get Memphis and it make any financial sense I have to imagine it would require paying majority if not all of their exit fee and a Media deal around 12 million per. That would be 3 million more than current AAC deal. Seems like a lot of that would get eaten up in travel costs.

They absolutely appear to have over played their hand.

One thing about the deal UNLV agreed to stay in MWC I'm not sure about is the lump sum and subsequent 1.5 million dollar payments. How I understood it was that 1.5 was to compensate UNLV for potential media rights shortfall.

What I don't know is let's say MWC somehow scrapes together a media deal equal to the 5 million the get now. Does UNLV still get that 1.5 million per year on top of the media deal? Or was that simply a safety net?

The 1.5 million is on top of whatever media rights regardless- cost of the MWC to keep us. The league also must feel confident they are getting a better deal than they currently have because they guaranteed all current members that the media rights would not fall below what they currently have.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

The 1.5 million is on top of whatever media rights regardless- cost of the MWC to keep us. The league also must feel confident they are getting a better deal than they currently have because they guaranteed all current members that the media rights would not fall below what they currently have.

I think Hawaii as full member probably gets you there (at least equal) Big market and never underestimate the degenerate gambler market.

 

[LVRebel2000]

From what I understand USU had a donor step up to cover a part or all of the exit fee.

I heard that also, but the point was that the Pac2 or PAC6 didn't help them with their funds

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

To me I would do Tarleton and Sac State

Tarleton is interesting there's some potential upside there but why not go with Sam Houston State they already made the jump from FCS. Sac State is interesting. Definitely in an enviable market.

If you are looking to increase footprint WKU has been solid the last 5 years. Problem would be travel partners. Would almost force you to look for two if not three other schools. Not sure LA Tech or Middle Tennessee State are great options.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I heard that also, but the point was that the Pac2 or PAC6 didn't help them with their funds

Is that confirmed Boise/SDSU/CSU all paid their own exit fees?

 

[LVRebel2000]

Is that confirmed Boise/SDSU/CSU all paid their own exit fees?

I believe it was confirmed with regards to Utah State. I haven't seen it confirmed with the other 4 traitors but that was the word on the Wazzu message board

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Grand Canyon is the best option out west. They do not have a football program, but they would meet the 8 team requirement as long as we can find a football only school. Grand Canyon has far more upside than any school out west including Boise State. While they do not currently have football, the school has a total enrollment of 120K (25K on campus the rest internet courses), they have a boat load of money as a private school, and their basketball program was a top 25 program last year. I could see them adding football within a few years.

1986 you are absolutely incorrect in what you say here (and repeat in other posts). To be recognized as an FBS conference, you have to have 8 FULL members, which means 16 sports INCLUDING football. Not sure how WSU is even getting away with this requirement since we only have 15 sports.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Is that confirmed Boise/SDSU/CSU all paid their own exit fees?

I believe it was confirmed with regards to Utah State. I haven't seen it confirmed with the other 4 traitors but that was the word on the Wazzu message board

Yeah I posted that. I read it in some seemingly credible article (all 5 traitors that is). Can't recall if I linked it over on my board or not. Of course my Coug brethren are too busy bitching about our QB and coach as we sit at 5-1 to bother looking for verification.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

Why. Again, another unnecessary move in the realignment. How do you split money? The TV dollars are coming for football, neither of those 2 brands bring any real TV $. St Marys and GCU dont bring anything other than a cool name on the schedule.

They do bring in $ for the tourney a few million a year for each school in the conference depending on how many games they play but with those three in regularly that adds up. Last time we tried to add them I remember they increased their split so that would reduce it some though I don’t remember the specifics.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Yeah I posted that. I read it in some seemingly credible article (all 5 traitors that is). Can't recall if I linked it over on my board or not. Of course my Coug brethren are too busy bitching about our QB and coach as we sit at 5-1 to bother looking for verification.

I had posted an article on this board someplace. It was an article that had a link to see the Pac12 8 page document that described the new membership and fees (signed before USU joined). It was in the article that said all 5 will pay their own exit fee. It wasn't in the 8 page document but it was from the author of that article. Does it mean it's true. If the author didn't make it up in his head then it might be true. Just because someone writes something to the interwebs doesn't make it true.

 

[dcut03]

Well they won't have to pay their fees until the end of next season. A lot can change from now and then.
I'm sure that the PAC at least hinted that they could help with the exit fees thiugh officially no.
Again to be seen what the exit fees end up being. Again most likely they will be paid over time regardless of what they are negotiated down to.

 

[Masked_rebel]

They do bring in $ for the tourney a few million a year for each school in the conference depending on how many games they play but with those three in regularly that adds up. Last time we tried to add them I remember they increased their split so that would reduce it some though I don’t remember the specifics.

How many teams are going to make the tournament in the new MWC? 2 if were lucky, so no they arent going to bring any additional bids or credits to the conference...
Sorry that's the reality because we were getting 5-6 with the Pac 12 traitors and you know the Pac 12 is getting 4 bids minimum locked each year based on quality of their league basketball wise and there are only so many mid-major bids to go around. The extra bids that WCC was stealing with St. Mary's will now either go to Pac or back to the P4, and GCUs bids came from winning conference tournament.

 

[RebNReno]

8 teams is okay for football. It’s probably beneficial for us to have an extra game to try and get an interesting opponent into Allegiant. I was looking at our 2026 schedule. Our first year with the new MWC looks ugly. Normally our 4th game would be an FCS game at home

• 09/12 - at North Texas
• 09/26 - at Akron
• 10/03 - at California

Is anyone going to be interested in a home schedule like this? Going to be tough to sell season tickets for this.

FCS Game
UNR
Wyoming
New Mexico
UTEP

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

8 teams is okay for football. It’s probably beneficial for us to have an extra game to try and get an interesting opponent into Allegiant. I was looking at our 2026 schedule. Our first year with the new MWC looks ugly. Normally our 4th game would be an FCS game at home

• 09/12 - at North Texas
• 09/26 - at Akron
• 10/03 - at California

Is anyone going to be interested in a home schedule like this? Going to be tough to sell season tickets for this.

FCS Game
UNR
Wyoming
New Mexico
UTEP

That's one of my biggest two issues/dangers of staying with the MWC.

Outside of Reno and Hawaii no other conference opponents travel particularly well. Attendance could take a hit which you don't want. It also doesn't help TV ratings which if the BIG 12 is actually a possibility low TV ratings aren't going to help the cause.

One issue with 5 OOC games and a weaker conference is UNLV will have to schedule 'up' to compensate that and probably have to take those games on the road.

As for that schedule...Cal game is solid. Otherwise...Not so much.

 

[Masked_rebel]

That's one of my biggest two issues/dangers of staying with the MWC.

Outside of Reno and Hawaii no other conference opponents travel particularly well. Attendance could take a hit which you don't want. It also doesn't help TV ratings which if the BIG 12 is actually a possibility low TV ratings aren't going to help the cause.

One issue with 5 OOC games and a weaker conference is UNLV will have to schedule 'up' to compensate that and probably have to take those games on the road.

As for that schedule...Cal game is solid. Otherwise...Not so much.

There are plenty of other G5s that play terrible schedules and manage to get fans to show up to games. If we're coming off 3 straight years of 9-10 wins, bowl games, and maybe a CFP fans will show up. People want to watch winning football. I know it's rough to imagine after years of ineptitude and terrible play, but regardless of the names on the schedule, UNLV winning games and showing they're a competent and competitive program will quickly change the attendance outlook regardless of schedule.

 

[RebelinWA]

Yes 100% stand pat. Only add teams that help the bottom line.

As for getting 6mil with this 8? I am very skeptical at that. If we are getting 6 the pac is getting 10-12 easy. I doubt that Inflation fully makes up the difference of losing our top 4 markets and a middle tier market.

I think the payouts are "guaranteed" but I think they will have use some of that leftover fee money. Which if they do that our extra money that we get will take a hit (the 10-14, then 1.5-1.8)

If the AAC blows up so bad that more teams will be able to leave with final penalty we shoot for utsa, Rice, and UNT in that order foe expansion. Those are probably the only school that came potentially improve our bottom line.

Not sac state, not Sam, not even Texas State.

I personally believe that in this arrangement, 6m is a stretch for the MW. I don't know how much other networks are offering the PAC, but at Paramount/CBS our estimates on valuation were much more conservative. They WILL make more than the MW for sure, but 10-12 is a stretch in this current arrangement. In my professional opinion, 7-9m is a conservative range for what the Pac is worth in its current arrangement. I'm still standing by my 5-8m overall range for both conferences: MW on the low range, Pac on the high.

The one thing the Pac has going for them is it will be far cheaper to run media for that conference because they have their own studio and equipment. It would just be a matter of flying a crew out to a game site and plugging in. The savings in production costs is pretty big; but it won't be to the tune of multiple millions per school. I still believe that the future of both of our conferences will be us merging at some point down the road.

 

[RebNReno]

That's one of my biggest two issues/dangers of staying with the MWC.

Outside of Reno and Hawaii no other conference opponents travel particularly well. Attendance could take a hit which you don't want. It also doesn't help TV ratings which if the BIG 12 is actually a possibility low TV ratings aren't going to help the cause.

One issue with 5 OOC games and a weaker conference is UNLV will have to schedule 'up' to compensate that and probably have to take those games on the road.

As for that schedule...Cal game is solid. Otherwise...Not so much.

I assume they will keep UNR and Hawaii on the current schedule of opposite years. That gives us one game of larger interest a year.

The athletic department will need to do a better job of scheduling going forward.
The 2027 looks a lot better than 2026.

• 09/04 - at USC
• 09/11 - Akron
• 09/18 - Arizona State
• 09/25 - UTSA

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

There are plenty of other G5s that play terrible schedules and manage to get fans to show up to games. If we're coming off 3 straight years of 9-10 wins, bowl games, and maybe a CFP fans will show up. People want to watch winning football. I know it's rough to imagine after years of ineptitude and terrible play, but regardless of the names on the schedule, UNLV winning games and showing they're a competent and competitive program will quickly change the attendance outlook regardless of schedule.

People do love a winner. But UNLV football and basketball are up against it a bit with Raiders and VGK in town now.

I just don't think this conference schedule helps much is all.

We'll see.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Raiders fans don't even show up to Raiders games...

 

[RebNReno]

There are plenty of other G5s that play terrible schedules and manage to get fans to show up to games. If we're coming off 3 straight years of 9-10 wins, bowl games, and maybe a CFP fans will show up. People want to watch winning football. I know it's rough to imagine after years of ineptitude and terrible play, but regardless of the names on the schedule, UNLV winning games and showing they're a competent and competitive program will quickly change the attendance outlook regardless of schedule.

Maybe but most likely not. Even our basketball program at it’s highest point (post Tark) didn’t get the huge crowds for the nobody’s.

People would “Pack The Mack” to see us play Arizona, SDSU, BYU, and UNM. But a sweet sixteen UNLV team playing Dixie State and Tennessee-Martin would play in a half empty Mack.

I think the opponent matters a lot more in Vegas than it does in Troy, Alabama or Greenville, North Carolina.

 

[Rebel1986]

1986 you are absolutely incorrect in what you say here (and repeat in other posts). To be recognized as an FBS conference, you have to have 8 FULL members, which means 16 sports INCLUDING football. Not sure how WSU is even getting away with this requirement since we only have 15 sports.

Wrong! Go look up the requirements. Full time programs do not need to have football, the requirement is there must be 8 full time members as well as at least 8 schools with football. This is why the MWC has been looking at several schools for football only membership.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

How many teams are going to make the tournament in the new MWC? 2 if were lucky, so no they arent going to bring any additional bids or credits to the conference...
Sorry that's the reality because we were getting 5-6 with the Pac 12 traitors and you know the Pac 12 is getting 4 bids minimum locked each year based on quality of their league basketball wise and there are only so many mid-major bids to go around. The extra bids that WCC was stealing with St. Mary's will now either go to Pac or back to the P4, and GCUs bids came from winning conference tournament.

Right now we are a one bid league bring in Gonzaga,. St Mary's and GCU and we are back to a 3-4 bid league. That means extra $$.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Right now we are a one bid league bring in Gonzaga,. St Mary's and GCU and we are back to a 3-4 bid league. That means extra $$.

Gonzaga is in the Pac 12... So no we're still a 1 maybe 2 bid league.. Neither of those programs changes that.

 

[Rebel1986]

Gonzaga is in the Pac 12... So no we're still a 1 maybe 2 bid league.. Neither of those programs changes that.

GCU has done well enough that it could change that.

 

[Masked_rebel]

GCU has done well enough that it could change that.

No it doesn't. Look at it from a pure bid perspective. There was 6 spots given to the MWC, there was 2 spots to the WCC, and 1 to the WAC..
Move the spots around with realignment...
MWC- 2 bids- 1 auto, probably 1 at large based on pure SOS/teams in conference
Pac 12- 4 bids minimum- 1 auto, probably min. 3 at large, probably 4 or 5..
WCC- 1 bid league
WAC- 1 bid league
The Pac 12 went and took the top 4 MWC basketball programs, added Gonzaga and still had OSU... That's 6 really solid programs probably really good NCAA tournament teams that probably siphons the WCC's extra bid. There's also the chance that the committee decides that mid -major conferences even at the level of the new Pac 12 shouldn't get 75% of its members into the dance and instead limits their births to 4 and adds 2 more P4 schools that didn't get in last year. Either way to stack it, the MWC isn't going to be a strong enough basketball conference on its own to merit multiple at large mid-major bids every single year. Adding St. Mary's and GCU secures the conference as 2 bids, maybe 3, but not enough that it would justify adding them and trying to figure out the media rights splits.

 

[dcut03]

No it doesn't. Look at it from a pure bid perspective. There was 6 spots given to the MWC, there was 2 spots to the WCC, and 1 to the WAC..
Move the spots around with realignment...
MWC- 2 bids- 1 auto, probably 1 at large based on pure SOS/teams in conference
Pac 12- 4 bids minimum- 1 auto, probably min. 3 at large, probably 4 or 5..
WCC- 1 bid league
WAC- 1 bid league
The Pac 12 went and took the top 4 MWC basketball programs, added Gonzaga and still had OSU... That's 6 really solid programs probably really good NCAA tournament teams that probably siphons the WCC's extra bid. There's also the chance that the committee decides that mid -major conferences even at the level of the new Pac 12 shouldn't get 75% of its members into the dance and instead limits their births to 4 and adds 2 more P4 schools that didn't get in last year. Either way to stack it, the MWC isn't going to be a strong enough basketball conference on its own to merit multiple at large mid-major bids every single year. Adding St. Mary's and GCU secures the conference as 2 bids, maybe 3, but not enough that it would justify adding them and trying to figure out the media rights splits.

PAC took 3 of the top 6 Bball programs. UNLV, UNR, and UNM are the other top 6. Arguable which are the best programs in terms of future quality.

The left over MW has a very good chance of being a 3 bid league, especially with adding St. Mary's and perhaps GCU.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

Gonzaga is in the Pac 12... So no we're still a 1 maybe 2 bid league.. Neither of those programs changes that.

Right forgot about that so 2-3 bid league vs one as of today.

 

[rebelzzz]

The MWC kept 3 of the top 5 in basketball. The top 3 of the MWC is every bit as good as the top 3 of the PAC. Where the big difference comes is after that, he PAC is stronger then the bottom 5 of the MWC by quite a ways. I would see the PAC as a 3 bid league and the MWC as a 2 bid league. P4 leagues will get more and more teams in and it will get more and more difficult for midmajor conferences to get more than 2-3 teams in.

UNLV. -------- Gonzaga
UNR. ---------- SDSU
UNM. -----------BSU

Wyoming.---------- OSU
Hawaii. ---------- WSU
Utep. ---------- Utah St
Air Force.---------- CSU
SJSU. ----------- Fresno St

Edit: these schools were not placed in any particular order just showing top 3 and other 5

 

[Masked_rebel]

The MWC kept 3 of the top 5 in basketball. The top 3 of the MWC is every bit as good as the top 3 of the PAC. Where the big difference comes is after that, he PAC is stronger then the bottom 5 of the MWC by quite a ways. I would see the PAC as a 3 bid league and the MWC as a 2 bid league. P4 leagues will get more and more teams in and it will get more and more difficult for midmajor conferences to get more than 2-3 teams in.

UNLV. -------- Gonzaga
UNR. ---------- SDSU
UNM. -----------BSU

Wyoming.---------- OSU
Hawaii. ---------- WSU
Utep. ---------- Utah St
Air Force.---------- CSU
SJSU. ----------- Fresno St

Edit: these schools were not placed in any particular order just showing top 3 and other 5

No, they took 4 of the top 6 programs. We are #7... CSU and USU have had more NCAA tournament access than we have had in the past decade.. "Gonzaga", that's a name recognition that hasnt even been to the tournament in over a decade..
OSU just made the tournament in 2021 and made an elite 8... WSU and Fresno are probably their worst programs.
If anything we kept 2 of the top 6 teams and moved ourselves up to a top 3 spot in the conference. Reality, sure we have a name brand and history better than any of the remaining teams, but that doesn't make us the top program in the conference until we can prove it..

 

[Rebel1986]

No it doesn't. Look at it from a pure bid perspective. There was 6 spots given to the MWC, there was 2 spots to the WCC, and 1 to the WAC..
Move the spots around with realignment...
MWC- 2 bids- 1 auto, probably 1 at large based on pure SOS/teams in conference
Pac 12- 4 bids minimum- 1 auto, probably min. 3 at large, probably 4 or 5..
WCC- 1 bid league
WAC- 1 bid league
The Pac 12 went and took the top 4 MWC basketball programs, added Gonzaga and still had OSU... That's 6 really solid programs probably really good NCAA tournament teams that probably siphons the WCC's extra bid. There's also the chance that the committee decides that mid -major conferences even at the level of the new Pac 12 shouldn't get 75% of its members into the dance and instead limits their births to 4 and adds 2 more P4 schools that didn't get in last year. Either way to stack it, the MWC isn't going to be a strong enough basketball conference on its own to merit multiple at large mid-major bids every single year. Adding St. Mary's and GCU secures the conference as 2 bids, maybe 3, but not enough that it would justify adding them and trying to figure out the media rights splits.

Would love to know how you have determined the top 4 MWC basketball programs?

Based on conference standings at the end of last year it was Utah State 1, unr 2, BSU 3, UNLV 4, SDSU 5, New Mexico 6, CSU 7, Wyoming 8, and FSU 9. This was head to head competition during the later part of the season. That would be the 1st and 3rd out of the top 4.

Based on the Massey combined ratings: SDSU 19th, New Mexico 26th, Utah State 34th, UNR 36th, CSU 43rd, BSU 49th, and UNLV 63rd. That would be the 1st and 3rd also out of the top 4.

Not really sure what metrics you have used for the top 4 MWC teams?

GCU was rated one spot behind CSU at the end of the season and in front of Boise State. That was prior to the NCAA championships where they actually beat teams in the NCAA tournament which is not very common for the MWC teams.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Would love to know how you have determined the top 4 MWC basketball programs?

Based on conference standings at the end of last year it was Utah State 1, unr 2, BSU 3, UNLV 4, SDSU 5, New Mexico 6, CSU 7, Wyoming 8, and FSU 9. This was head to head competition during the later part of the season. That would be the 1st and 3rd out of the top 4.

Based on the Massey combined ratings: SDSU 19th, New Mexico 26th, Utah State 34th, UNR 36th, CSU 43rd, BSU 49th, and UNLV 63rd. That would be the 1st and 3rd also out of the top 4.

Not really sure what metrics you have used for the top 4 MWC teams?

GCU was rated one spot behind CSU at the end of the season and in front of Boise State. That was prior to the NCAA championships where they actually beat teams in the NCAA tournament which is not very common for the MWC teams.

Who made the NCAA tournament? Who made it the year before that? How about the year before that? We brought in 0 dollars for the conference in NCAA tournament credits and have failed to do so for more than a decade... that puts us behind each of those programs. We haven't gotten an at large bid since 2013, and since then we have seen Utah State, UNR, Boise, UNM, and CSU all either won a conference championship or made the NCAA tournament. Now you can argue some of those at large bids to the Last 4 dont really matter and thats fine, but they were in the tournament and we have not been.

 

[Rebel1986]

Who made the NCAA tournament? Who made it the year before that? How about the year before that? We brought in 0 dollars for the conference in NCAA tournament credits and have failed to do so for more than a decade... that puts us behind each of those programs. We haven't gotten an at large bid since 2013, and since then we have seen Utah State, UNR, Boise, UNM, and CSU all either won a conference championship or made the NCAA tournament. Now you can argue some of those at large bids to the Last 4 dont really matter and thats fine, but they were in the tournament and we have not been.

Never said UNLV did, but I am not the one that said that the PAC took the top 4 basketball teams from the MWC. I showed that wasn't true, and you changed the narrative.