Conference expansion & changes

[LVRebel2000]

With the news that Clemson has likely found some way to get out of the Grant of Rights for the ACC, and is planning to leave, along with multiple other schools, it got me to thinking.

Allegedly, the SEC and BIG 10 are going to invite 4-5 of the schools, and then the Big 12 maybe gets another 4. As it stands now, the ACC has 14 teams. They've 'added Cal, Stanford, and SMU to start next season, but that's where my questions start.

If 9 of the 14 current teams, including pretty much all of the top market teams leave the ACC, does that void their TV contract? I'd have to think it would have a serious impact on it, but I'm not in the loop on how it's structured.

If that happens, and the ACC has to restructure it's TV deal, would Cal, Stanford and SMU still want to join the ACC, knowing that it's a fading conference that may lose it's P5 status, similar to what happened to the Pac 12?

Have Cal, Stanford and SMU officially put in their notice to leave their current conferences? If I was Cal and Stanford, I'd really be rethinking my plan to join a crumbling ACC, and instead try to salvage what's left of the PAC 12 with OSU, WSU, and then pulling in the best of the rest.

Thoughts?

 

[dcut03]

With the news that Clemson has likely found some way to get out of the Grant of Rights for the ACC, and is planning to leave, along with multiple other schools, it got me to thinking.

Allegedly, the SEC and BIG 10 are going to invite 4-5 of the schools, and then the Big 12 maybe gets another 4. As it stands now, the ACC has 14 teams. They've 'added Cal, Stanford, and SMU to start next season, but that's where my questions start.

If 9 of the 14 current teams, including pretty much all of the top market teams leave the ACC, does that void their TV contract? I'd have to think it would have a serious impact on it, but I'm not in the loop on how it's structured.

If that happens, and the ACC has to restructure it's TV deal, would Cal, Stanford and SMU still want to join the ACC, knowing that it's a fading conference that may lose it's P5 status, similar to what happened to the Pac 12?

Have Cal, Stanford and SMU officially put in their notice to leave their current conferences? If I was Cal and Stanford, I'd really be rethinking my plan to join a crumbling ACC, and instead try to salvage what's left of the PAC 12 with OSU, WSU, and then pulling in the best of the rest.

Thoughts?

It would be funny if the Smarty pants schools bust a SDSU and try to come back with their tail between their legs. They should tell them to eff off, but their TV contract value is too good to say no.

 

[LVRebel2000]

It would be funny if the Smarty pants schools bust a SDSU and try to come back with their tail between their legs. They should tell them to eff off, but their TV contract value is too good to say no.

yeah, it would be pretty funny. The thing is, if this comes to pass, and the TV contract for the ACC drops significantly, would it still be worth it to them to travel across the country for all their games?

 

[saulpaul21]

Whoa, this link say Wash St and Oregon St to split $320m UNLESS they are invited to another league and pac 12 dissolves completely. So MWC may have no changes unless you could get top half of aac and mwc to form a p5.5 type of conference.
Listen to this and tell me what you think.

 

[LVRebel2000]

View embedded media

Whoa, this link say Wash St and Oregon St to split $320m UNLESS they are invited to another league and pac 12 dissolves completely. So MWC may have no changes unless you could get top half of aac and mwc to form a p5.5 type of conference.
Listen to this and tell me what you think.

Yeah, that's been discussed for a while, and is the main reason that OSU/WSU took the issue to court. It was rumored that the PAC 12 was going to have a meeting and basically vote to kill the conference, which would result in that bundle of money getting split between all of the schools.

OSU/WSU took it to court to say that the schools that are leaving should no longer have a vote on anything other than situations that are required to run the operations during this year.

I'll give it a listen though.

 

[saulpaul21]

Yeah, that's been discussed for a while, and is the main reason that OSU/WSU took the issue to court. It was rumored that the PAC 12 was going to have a meeting and basically vote to kill the conference, which would result in that bundle of money getting split between all of the schools.

OSU/WSU took it to court to say that the schools that are leaving should no longer have a vote on anything other than situations that are required to run the operations during this year.

I'll give it a listen though.

Thanks, I never knew the number was $320m though. Still would have to find a conference who wants them as the other members of a conference would still not see them as additions.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

View embedded media

Whoa, this link say Wash St and Oregon St to split $320m UNLESS they are invited to another league and pac 12 dissolves completely. So MWC may have no changes unless you could get top half of aac and mwc to form a p5.5 type of conference.
Listen to this and tell me what you think.

Bullshit podcast. The Pac2 have to have their day in court and win. The Pac10 are still pushing for a share of what is left of any Pac12 money.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

With the news that Clemson has likely found some way to get out of the Grant of Rights for the ACC, and is planning to leave, along with multiple other schools, it got me to thinking.

Allegedly, the SEC and BIG 10 are going to invite 4-5 of the schools, and then the Big 12 maybe gets another 4. As it stands now, the ACC has 14 teams. They've 'added Cal, Stanford, and SMU to start next season, but that's where my questions start.

If 9 of the 14 current teams, including pretty much all of the top market teams leave the ACC, does that void their TV contract? I'd have to think it would have a serious impact on it, but I'm not in the loop on how it's structured.

If that happens, and the ACC has to restructure it's TV deal, would Cal, Stanford and SMU still want to join the ACC, knowing that it's a fading conference that may lose it's P5 status, similar to what happened to the Pac 12?

Have Cal, Stanford and SMU officially put in their notice to leave their current conferences? If I was Cal and Stanford, I'd really be rethinking my plan to join a crumbling ACC, and instead try to salvage what's left of the PAC 12 with OSU, WSU, and then pulling in the best of the rest.

Thoughts?

I still think they leave for the ACC. They weren't going to get an equal share of money anyway. I believe they were taking half. So if a couple of the big ACC players leave and the new contract will probably work out to what they were going to get anyway. What scares CAL and Stanford is aligning themselves with MWC schools. We are dirt to them and they don't want anything to do with dirt.

 

[LVRebel2000]

Bullshit podcast. The Pac2 have to have their day in court and win. The Pac10 are still pushing for a share of what is left of any Pac12 money.

Agreed. The question is whether them leaving the conference makes them lose their share of the distribution. For example, if just USC and UCLA left, and the conference was going to continue on as per normal, would those 2 schools get their distribution next year? If they've left the conference and joined another, it would seem like they wouldn't, but I'm not an expert on how their payment system is structured.

If it's customary to give up your next year's allocation (based on previous years results), I would think that the schools leaving would be forfeiting that money.

Otherwise, if it's spelled out that they get it regardless, then it should be clear.

 

[LVRebel2000]

I still think they leave for the ACC. They weren't going to get an equal share of money anyway. I believe they were taking half. So if a couple of the big ACC players leave and the new contract will probably work out to what they were going to get anyway. What scares CAL and Stanford is aligning themselves with MWC schools. We are dirt to them and they don't want anything to do with dirt.

You just wonder at what point it becomes not worth it to Cal/Stanford to be in the ACC with all of the additional travel costs. I'm curious to see when these group of teams announce that they're leaving, what that will result in, in regards to their media contract.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Agreed. The question is whether them leaving the conference makes them lose their share of the distribution. For example, if just USC and UCLA left, and the conference was going to continue on as per normal, would those 2 schools get their distribution next year? If they've left the conference and joined another, it would seem like they wouldn't, but I'm not an expert on how their payment system is structured.

If it's customary to give up your next year's allocation (based on previous years results), I would think that the schools leaving would be forfeiting that money.

Otherwise, if it's spelled out that they get it regardless, then it should be clear.

If I'm understanding your question it would seem that what you are saying is that all schools have committed to leave the Pac12. It would seem to me at that point then they all 12 share an equal amount and close shop.

The court thing will be resolved before OSU and WSU even take an offer to go someplace else. Their contract was worded over 100 years ago and is vague in its wording and interpretation as to what contemplates them having given or will give notice to leave the Pac12. I'm not sure what UCLA or USC gave as notice or if it gave anything at all. The other 8 have not give any formal written notice of departure. The question for the judge is what constitutes as having given notice. The Pac2 are hanging their hats that the traitors10 have given notice regardless of it being in writing and the Pac12 empire should be under their control. All distributions of assets hinge on what the court says about that contract.

 

[LVRebel2000]

If I'm understanding your question it would seem that what you are saying is that all schools have committed to leave the Pac12. It would seem to me at that point then they all 12 share an equal amount and close shop.

The court thing will be resolved before OSU and WSU even take an offer to go someplace else. Their contract was worded over 100 years ago and is vague in its wording and interpretation as to what contemplates them having given or will give notice to leave the Pac12. I'm not sure what UCLA or USC gave as notice or if it gave anything at all. The other 8 have not give any formal written notice of departure. The question for the judge is what constitutes as having given notice. The Pac2 are hanging their hats that the traitors10 have given notice regardless of it being in writing and the Pac12 empire should be under their control. All distributions of assets hinge on what the court says about that contract.

All schools except OSU and WSU have publicly stated that they're leaving. If OSU and WSU decide to leave, then the conference fails to exist and all the money would be split between the 12 schools.

If, however, those 2 don't, then would all of that money just be split between the two of them?

 

[Meister_Rebel]

All schools except OSU and WSU have publicly stated that they're leaving. If OSU and WSU decide to leave, then the conference fails to exist and all the money would be split between the 12 schools.

If, however, those 2 don't, then would all of that money just be split between the two of them?

The court will have to say if the Pac2 are the legitimate remaining members based on what is the interpretation of what it is to have "given notice". The Traitors10 are saying they have not given official notice to withdraw from the conference prior to the media rights contract end. The Traitors10 leaving may have been publicly stated they are leaving but how that contract is interpreted as the two remaining schools have total control is up for the court to decide. The current contract was set to expire with the media rights contract expiration June 30th (might be July 31st) 2024. The Traitors10 have already received partial distribution of the 23/24 media rights. I believe I read it was about 40%. It's that remaining media rights distributions of 60% is what the Pac2 feels that the Traitors10 have forfeited. The Traitors10 want the rest of their media rights money coming to them at the end of the contract therefore they are playing word salad with interpreting the contract and specifically held off giving written notice. There are other monies involved such as NCAA Tournament and some sort of emergency fund that was set up that the Pac2 want for themselves. The Pac2 also want sole possession of the Pac12 network so that they can use it as a bargaining chip or to sell.

If the court sides in favor of OSU and WSU they may end up with all remaining assets. It's hard to say that they will split the assets or use it to keep and grow the conference. It's not all money in the bank for OSU and WSU as there are a lot of expenses to running the business. Payroll, employee benefits, lease of their headquarters and leases on the Pac12 Network properties. Those leased properties from what I read are barely into their first of five year contracts. There are millions of dollars in annual expenses. The Pac2 are going to have to look at not only their windfall income but their tremendous looming expenses.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

The court will have to say if the Pac2 are the legitimate remaining members based on what is the interpretation of what it is to have "given notice". The Traitors10 are saying they have not given official notice to withdraw from the conference prior to the media rights contract end. The Traitors10 leaving may have been publicly stated they are leaving but how that contract is interpreted as the two remaining schools have total control is up for the court to decide. The current contract was set to expire with the media rights contract expiration June 30th (might be July 31st) 2024. The Traitors10 have already received partial distribution of the 23/24 media rights. I believe I read it was about 40%. It's that remaining media rights distributions of 60% is what the Pac2 feels that the Traitors10 have forfeited. The Traitors10 want the rest of their media rights money coming to them at the end of the contract therefore they are playing word salad with interpreting the contract and specifically held off giving written notice. There are other monies involved such as NCAA Tournament and some sort of emergency fund that was set up that the Pac2 want for themselves. The Pac2 also want sole possession of the Pac12 network so that they can use it as a bargaining chip or to sell.

If the court sides in favor of OSU and WSU they may end up with all remaining assets. It's hard to say that they will split the assets or use it to keep and grow the conference. It's not all money in the bank for OSU and WSU as there are a lot of expenses to running the business. Payroll, employee benefits, lease of their headquarters and leases on the Pac12 Network properties. Those leased properties from what I read are barely into their first of five year contracts. There are millions of dollars in annual expenses. The Pac2 are going to have to look at not only their windfall income but their tremendous looming expenses.

To add on to those expenses. I looked at the financial statements I found on the inter-webs for 2021 as their payroll expenses then were around $50 million dollars. I'm sure it's closer to $60 million now for the some 192 employees I read they had. Of course for the the Pac2 to continue they will more than likely trim that staff down to a bare minimum. The Pac12 Network property lease is just under $2 million dollars per year so say after the 10 are gone they will probably have another 4 years on that lease for about $8 million. Their headquarters I have no clue what that expense is as I haven't found what they spent after leaving San Francisco. Their commissioner whom I'm expecting will be let go still has about $10 million dollars remaining on his contract which they will have to buy out.

Per that 2021 financial statement they had expenses of about $118 million dollars for that year. Should they decide to keep the Pac12 they better be smart about any money they get control of since they don't look to have any media rights money coming after their current contract ends.

I

 

[LVRebel2000]

To add on to those expenses. I looked at the financial statements I found on the inter-webs for 2021 as their payroll expenses then were around $50 million dollars. I'm sure it's closer to $60 million now for the some 192 employees I read they had. Of course for the the Pac2 to continue they will more than likely trim that staff down to a bare minimum. The Pac12 Network property lease is just under $2 million dollars per year so say after the 10 are gone they will probably have another 4 years on that lease for about $8 million. Their headquarters I have no clue what that expense is as I haven't found what they spent after leaving San Francisco. Their commissioner whom I'm expecting will be let go still has about $10 million dollars remaining on his contract which they will have to buy out.

Per that 2021 financial statement they had expenses of about $118 million dollars for that year. Should they decide to keep the Pac12 they better be smart about any money they get control of since they don't look to have any media rights money coming after their current contract ends.

I

Good stuff, thank you. I'm sure that the staff and resources to run things would be WAY lower with just 2 schools than with 12. But really the question is how the court is going to interpret the conference documents with regards to leaving, payment, ownership, etc.

 

[LVRebel2000]

 

[Meister_Rebel]

View embedded media

I watched the court case on a live video feed and I don't remember them giving the restraining order a specific end date.

But thanks for the information because we now know when that preliminary injunction date is. I'll have to search for a video feed on that date.

 

[dcut03]

I do think the reasons that the noCal schools are leaving are partially academic, but a good part is still being in a power conference. If all the best football schools leave than their autobid for the BCS will come into question.
That and taking a huge paycut and travel costs (not to mention putting them at a competitive disadvantage from said travel).
But they still have their head up their collective asses. If any sort of collaboration with the MW will come to be, they will be sticks in the mud. So it's likely best for UNLV that they try to stick it out with the ACC, even though their inclusion would equate to a stronger media contract as PAC members if a partnership would become a reality.

 

[LVRebel2000]

 

[Couev]

Expect the unexpected. Where will Clemson land, and will their be a max exodus at the top of the ACC to follow? I know FSU, UNC, and Miami were all pissed at the PAC schools being accepted--what happens to the ACC if they lose their top 6 programs to B1G and SEC? Does then the BIG-12 strike and try to get the best programs left in the ACC and PAC/MWC? If the ACC falls apart does Notre Dame finally have to go to the B1G?

I think UNLV will be boned, no matter what happens, but maybe this will be the end of the Karma for how we treated Tark and the Curse of Ault will finally be done and we can catch the next super conference in about 7-8 years.

 

[Rod_the_Rebel]

Unless we can go back 20 years AND summon an additional 200,000 alumni from thin air AND get them and their families to care about UNLV sports AND have several of them be influential enough to get us in the exclusive doors, I’d say we missed the boat at being relevant.