CKK is more than likely…safe. (LVRJ)

[dcut03]

I don't think he recruits "like shit". I think we still have some of the better "talent" in this league. Last season I think we had easily the best collection of dudes.
What is "like shit" is the offensive and defensive approach. I have had more dynamic offenses playing pick up ball, and defensively the lack of trust to let someone guard their man leaves wide open buckets.
Perfect example, down to basically 6 dudes with the best player out, they play better? Our current roster has guys that are really good at certain aspects of the game. A good coach would be able to create opportunities for them to shine, instead of just rolling the ball out there.
It will be more of the same, simply because the approach to the game will be basically the same. We will get a bunch of transfers in here again, to have a practically brand new team again. The only difference is, do the boosters continue to put money into NIL for the same results we are getting? Why would they, so it will be the same flawed system with worse talent.
I think a new coach that can get a bunch of guys that plays to a specific system, or a collection of dudes where he can build a system. Do what Utah State has done. A well coached team with above average mid major talent can get you further than we have been. Then you add some select talent to round it out and put you over the top year over year. Establish a system and a culture, then pick the best guys you can get for that system. Instead of the best guys money can buy without a system.

 

[WarthogRebel]

I don't think he recruits "like shit". I think we still have some of the better "talent" in this league. Last season I think we had easily the best collection of dudes.
What is "like shit" is the offensive and defensive approach. I have had more dynamic offenses playing pick up ball, and defensively the lack of trust to let someone guard their man leaves wide open buckets.
Perfect example, down to basically 6 dudes with the best player out, they play better? Our current roster has guys that are really good at certain aspects of the game. A good coach would be able to create opportunities for them to shine, instead of just rolling the ball out there.
It will be more of the same, simply because the approach to the game will be basically the same. We will get a bunch of transfers in here again, to have a practically brand new team again. The only difference is, do the boosters continue to put money into NIL for the same results we are getting? Why would they, so it will be the same flawed system with worse talent.
I think a new coach that can get a bunch of guys that plays to a specific system, or a collection of dudes where he can build a system. Do what Utah State has done. A well coached team with above average mid major talent can get you further than we have been. Then you add some select talent to round it out and put you over the top year over year. Establish a system and a culture, then pick the best guys you can get for that system. Instead of the best guys money can buy without a system.

"The only difference is, do the boosters continue to put money into NIL for the same results we are getting?"

If they do - or if they don't, I believe it makes little difference with CKK. They should save their money for the new coach.

 

[Masked_rebel]

I don't think he recruits "like shit". I think we still have some of the better "talent" in this league. Last season I think we had easily the best collection of dudes.
What is "like shit" is the offensive and defensive approach. I have had more dynamic offenses playing pick up ball, and defensively the lack of trust to let someone guard their man leaves wide open buckets.
Perfect example, down to basically 6 dudes with the best player out, they play better? Our current roster has guys that are really good at certain aspects of the game. A good coach would be able to create opportunities for them to shine, instead of just rolling the ball out there.
It will be more of the same, simply because the approach to the game will be basically the same. We will get a bunch of transfers in here again, to have a practically brand new team again. The only difference is, do the boosters continue to put money into NIL for the same results we are getting? Why would they, so it will be the same flawed system with worse talent.
I think a new coach that can get a bunch of guys that plays to a specific system, or a collection of dudes where he can build a system. Do what Utah State has done. A well coached team with above average mid major talent can get you further than we have been. Then you add some select talent to round it out and put you over the top year over year. Establish a system and a culture, then pick the best guys you can get for that system. Instead of the best guys money can buy without a system.

Yeah, I agree. Hes been able to recruit some pretty talented players into the university. I agree its a coaching issue and you see it when crunch time hits and guys don't know what to do to get to the bucket. Harkless, keeping Bryce for Senior season, Boone's, Hill, Dedan... All talented players.
I also agree, a new coach that brings in players fit to an established identity/system. That was the problem with hiring Kevin.. He didnt have that and hasnt established it. He tried to use the hero ball player the first 2 years with Bryce then EJ.. Then he built an experienced team around a young talented PG but there was a bunch of issues.. Then tis year he tried to build a roster with a bunch of role players, guys you find 6, 7, 8 in a rotation and they've all played like that for the most part- inconsistent scoring, rebounding, etc... Its led to mediocre results with a few games here and there that they came together enough to pull out a big win.

 

[LVRebel2000]

Just keep him. Give him an office with a desk and a phone. ( locate in the baseball complex) Set a 40 hour week and require a detailed analysis of 5 different team defenses a week . Save $800, 000.

I like the way you think

 

[Couev]

Yeah, I agree. Hes been able to recruit some pretty talented players into the university. I agree its a coaching issue and you see it when crunch time hits and guys don't know what to do to get to the bucket. Harkless, keeping Bryce for Senior season, Boone's, Hill, Dedan... All talented players.

So, you can make the argument that he's gotten some talent in. But recruiting isn't just talent acquisition--it's roster construction and an increasingly large part of the game in the modern era is talent retention. And by the 2nd two metrics, I don't think you can really be excited about the recruiting.

 

[j. spilotro]

I like the way you think

Well, yeah. That’s one way to do it. And if they decide to stay in the game and head to another school, that reduces the pay.

Now if they go to the private sector and sell insurance or whatever, they’ll get full pay. But you really think they want to take both feet out of the door for a couple of years? I’m many cases, you’re basically committing to a life without hoops as the rest of your career.

So ….

 

[Masked_rebel]

So, you can make the argument that he's gotten some talent in. But recruiting isn't just talent acquisition--it's roster construction and an increasingly large part of the game in the modern era is talent retention. And by the 2nd two metrics, I don't think you can really be excited about the recruiting.

I disagree that in the modern era its talent retention. Roster construction isn't due to a lack of recruiting. Its due to Kevin not having a brand identity and trying to fix issues from one team to the next through recruiting. We've gotten good talent that our coach cant fit together, that's not a recruits problem. The previous post referenced the s*** recruiting comment and thats not fair a fair criticism of him. Roster construction, identity, coaching absolutely.
The portal has basically ruined talent retention. Most teams are overhauling roster each year, kids want playing time or to be on competitive teams(cough, cough more money). Sure Id like to have seen him retain our younger talents, because they(Gilbert, Hall) probably would've been better than JJ or Webster last season, but it is what it is in college basketball.

 

[Rebel77fl2]

First off, I am totally on board with letting CKK walk. My guess is you negotiate a buyout below 2.3M and closer to the 1.6M owed. Because as someone mentioned you could put him in another job and just pay him the 1.6M, I think you can also get it down to less as CKK wants to coach somewhere and doesn’t want to do nothing for a year or two. So maybe 1M which is not too much more than what was thought.

That said I think the biggest issue with keeping CKK is he has shown horrible judgment in the portal, some might be bad luck others are just bad choices for this level. I have zero confidence he can build a team that could win the MWC regular season, but if he stays I hope he proves me wrong cause at the end of the day I don’t care who the coach is that gets us back to winning.

 

[Rebel77fl2]

I disagree that in the modern era its talent retention. Roster construction isn't due to a lack of recruiting. Its due to Kevin not having a brand identity and trying to fix issues from one team to the next through recruiting. We've gotten good talent that our coach cant fit together, that's not a recruits problem. The previous post referenced the s*** recruiting comment and thats not fair a fair criticism of him. Roster construction, identity, coaching absolutely.
The portal has basically ruined talent retention. Most teams are overhauling roster each year, kids want playing time or to be on competitive teams(cough, cough more money). Sure Id like to have seen him retain our younger talents, because they(Gilbert, Hall) probably would've been better than JJ or Webster last season, but it is what it is in college basketball.

No way, his transfer portals pickups have been bad. Any non-senior he has brought in has not produced up to expectation for the most part and you can’t build based on that model. Roster construction is the same as recruiting, bringing in shooter that can shoot, PG that can’t play point is just bad recruiting, bigs with no muscle and can’t rebound is bad recruiting! Obviously there are other issues but if you can’t get talent identification right it makes everything else so much harder.

 

[Couev]

I disagree that in the modern era its talent retention.

So, for certain players that get head hunted by P4 programs, I agree with you. But losing someone like Keyshawn Hall to George Mason is unacceptable, and that's where I think retention IS a part of the recruiting equation. Putting in work to retain players like Hall means spending money and resources just like in the recruiting process. Most times you won't be able to beat someone who comes poaching, but you should never be losing those battles to schools that are at or below where you are.

We've gotten good talent that our coach cant fit together, that's not a recruits problem.

But that calculus is part of the recruiting picture. Knowing who can play with other players, knowing who you'll have a problem retaining and piecing together an adequate. I don't know that KK has an identity to recruit around, so his identity has been amass as much talent as I can, regardless of how things will work. And that part of roster construction IS secondary to recruiting in my humble opinion. There's room for you to disagree, obviously--but if Kevin recruited 4 players next year an all were 4s and 5s and he knew he was losing Dedan and that Jace was a injury risk and didn't bring in another PG, wouldn't you consider that a failure regardless of the talent of the 4 frontcourt guys?