Who set UNLV back the most?
- Thread starter Doneoett
- Start date
I give it to Maxon. He blew up the basketball program for his own ego. Had they let Tark run his program & exit on his own terms, I think UNLV would be a dynasty to this day.
I didn't vote or look at the results but if it's not 100% for Maxson then that means you started watching UNLV after the Tark era.
I had the exact same thought. You couldn’t possibly have lived here, or followed the Rebels from afar, during the early-90’s and had any answer other than Maxson. What he did to our program was criminal. Tark had it all set-up to rotate star players through the system, for years to come.
As I mentioned in another thread, I swore that, die-hard though I was, I was never setting foot in the Thomas & Mack again. The Rollie M-fiasco was just salt in the wound. And T K-M certainly brought us to our knees, where we currently reside. But her damage is fixable. And I choose to believe that MM is the right man to bring us back to relevance.
But Maxson denied us a Duke/Kansas/Kentucky-like run over these past 25 years. We can never get that back. We should have been mentioned in the same breath as those programs. Instead we are a historical footnote as quite possibly the best college basketball team of all-time.
Go Rebels!
I had the exact same thought. You couldn’t possibly have lived here, or followed the Rebels from afar, during the early-90’s and had any answer other than Maxson. What he did to our program was criminal. Tark had it all set-up to rotate star players through the system, for years to come.
As I mentioned in another thread, I swore that, die-hard though I was, I was never setting foot in the Thomas & Mack again. The Rollie M-fiasco was just salt in the wound. And T K-M certainly brought us to our knees, where we currently reside. But her damage is fixable. And I choose to believe that MM is the right man to bring us back to relevance.
But Maxson denied us a Duke/Kansas/Kentucky-like run over these past 25 years. We can never get that back. We should have been mentioned in the same breath as those programs. Instead we are a historical footnote as quite possibly the best college basketball team of all-time.
Go Rebels!
When you read Tark's and others words about the recruits who were DYING to come to UNLV post the sabotage it is really incredible. Jason Kidd and Jalen Rose among others. UCLA won the title with Ed Obannon and Shawn Tarver who both had commited to be Rebels and were released from their letters of intent. What could have been...In the early 90s every kid wanted to be a Runnin' Rebel.
Maxson. UNLV athletics has been on a steady decline ever since his ego-driven shenanigans. I wish him nothing but ill tidings every day of his life. All the hypocrites that ran the NCAAs investigative arm can rot in hell too.
Maxson did damage to the basketball program, but not nearly the damage he did to the football program. Basketball was able to hold on much better for longer due to Tark and his connections with enough boosters to keep Maxson from totally destroying the program.
But, President Carol Harter 1995-2006 was able to finish the job of destroying both the football and basketball programs with her attempt to turn UNLV into the Harvard of the West without any real investments in either academics or athletics. It must be Magic! Funny how the only good year in basketball after 1991 was after both these Presidents had left (2007).
Robert Maxson was the UNLV president from 1984 to 1994 which was during the rare time when UNLV football was moving in the right direction and was about ready to jump to the next level.
In 1983 UNLV football had a 7-4 record and was starting to make a move as a new division 1 program and was starting to recruit better players.
In 1984 UNLV football was 11-2 and had Cunningham back and was being noticed by numerous recruits that were looking at the program (finshed 26th in nation).
In 1984 Maxson took over the school and one of his first steps was to start to downgrade the overall athletic department and cut the budget of the football
program that was just starting to show potential and finished with highest ranking to date just outside the top 25 based on voting.
Several key recruits that it appeared were on there way to UNLV backed out based on some of the actions of Maxson (I do not remember the names, but had a lot of friends on the team that were really excited for what would come in 1985 prior to Maxson) .
During the next decade I watched as Maxson slowly destroyed the overall athletic department while UNLV football attempted to hold on winning about half of their games while the budget was cut almost every year under Maxson.
Record in the following years:
1985 5-5-1
1986 6-5
1987 5-6
1988 4-7
1989 4-7
1990 4-7
1991 4-7
1992 6-5
1993 3-8
1994 7-4 - One exception year with the exception of 2000 with John Robinson. Harvey Hyde found a way similar to that of coach Tark of going after inner city players and working on a shoestring budget to put a good team on the field, but too many arrested players ended his career.
It was obvious that UNLV was in a steady slow decline during the decade from a team just outside of the top 25 and averaging around 26-28K per game to a program that was dead in the water for the next 20 years.
I just hope that this next year is the first year in which UNLV has improved 3 years in a row ever since going to division 1!
As a side note:
UNLV had an even record or better 7 (6 of those years they had a winning record) of the first 8 years of the program prior to Maxson with a 50-29-2 (63% winning) record from 1978-1984 which would have made UNLV one of the better programs in the MWC. Then came Maxson and Harter!
From 1985-2016 UNLV became the joke of D1. UNLV had an even record or better 7 (5 of those years they had a winning record) of the next 32 season with an overall record of 120-252-1 (32% winning).
The stats say it all!
But, President Carol Harter 1995-2006 was able to finish the job of destroying both the football and basketball programs with her attempt to turn UNLV into the Harvard of the West without any real investments in either academics or athletics. It must be Magic! Funny how the only good year in basketball after 1991 was after both these Presidents had left (2007).
Robert Maxson was the UNLV president from 1984 to 1994 which was during the rare time when UNLV football was moving in the right direction and was about ready to jump to the next level.
In 1983 UNLV football had a 7-4 record and was starting to make a move as a new division 1 program and was starting to recruit better players.
In 1984 UNLV football was 11-2 and had Cunningham back and was being noticed by numerous recruits that were looking at the program (finshed 26th in nation).
In 1984 Maxson took over the school and one of his first steps was to start to downgrade the overall athletic department and cut the budget of the football
program that was just starting to show potential and finished with highest ranking to date just outside the top 25 based on voting.
Several key recruits that it appeared were on there way to UNLV backed out based on some of the actions of Maxson (I do not remember the names, but had a lot of friends on the team that were really excited for what would come in 1985 prior to Maxson) .
During the next decade I watched as Maxson slowly destroyed the overall athletic department while UNLV football attempted to hold on winning about half of their games while the budget was cut almost every year under Maxson.
Record in the following years:
1985 5-5-1
1986 6-5
1987 5-6
1988 4-7
1989 4-7
1990 4-7
1991 4-7
1992 6-5
1993 3-8
1994 7-4 - One exception year with the exception of 2000 with John Robinson. Harvey Hyde found a way similar to that of coach Tark of going after inner city players and working on a shoestring budget to put a good team on the field, but too many arrested players ended his career.
It was obvious that UNLV was in a steady slow decline during the decade from a team just outside of the top 25 and averaging around 26-28K per game to a program that was dead in the water for the next 20 years.
I just hope that this next year is the first year in which UNLV has improved 3 years in a row ever since going to division 1!
As a side note:
UNLV had an even record or better 7 (6 of those years they had a winning record) of the first 8 years of the program prior to Maxson with a 50-29-2 (63% winning) record from 1978-1984 which would have made UNLV one of the better programs in the MWC. Then came Maxson and Harter!
From 1985-2016 UNLV became the joke of D1. UNLV had an even record or better 7 (5 of those years they had a winning record) of the next 32 season with an overall record of 120-252-1 (32% winning).
The stats say it all!
This.
Above Rebel1986 detailed some football numbers and TarkisGod talks "what should have been" in basketball... but what you "newbies" need to understand is that ROBERT MAXSON WAS THE SATAN OF UNLV ATHLETICS.
As for TKM... she may have been at the helm of the ship when it hit the iceberg and she may have been incompetent to avoid it, but was she aiming for it? Oh, and so many others pushed it in that direction... she inherited a controversial basketball coaching hire that wasn't working out and a deeply divided fan base... she tried to make a coaching change in spring of '15 but the Grg/Warkentein lobby blocked support for it because "the university can't do this to Dave and Kreigh and Stacy right after the passing of Jerry T".... then the gigolo trio of Rick Pitino, Mick Cronin, and Chris Beard all leading the old bat on that they wanted to dance with her... not to mention Augmon and Larry Johnson getting LJ's buddy and NYTimes writer William Rhoden to publish a national article implying that if UNLV did not hire Stacy to replace CDR that it was due to discrimination.... then there are all of the "supportive" fans and boosters...
Robert Maxson acted with the support of a few wealthy and powerful locals, but otherwise this community and fan base was united in support of Coach Tark and the RunninRebels and the program was bleeding profits for the university and energizing the city and inspiring a fan base that extended beyond Las Vegas and even beyond the west coast.
And for that reason, I'll never support, like or trust those that worked with Maxson to bring down the program. When I hear "Steve Wynn will bring this.... or Steve Wynn wants him to coach"... I dismiss it. He's not needed around here. His money may be needed, but you can't compromise again just because of dollars. He toppled an empire once, why let him anywhere near anything ever again?
That's what is fn sickening. We talk of this community rift. Oh, sure, there were a small handful of fans and idiot academians like Dr Deacon that were against Tark because of the controversy he brought with him.... but the fans, by a large percentage, were unified behind Tark. It may have been 95% vs 5%.
Oh, and I don't mean to paint academians with the same brush. Most that I encountered were in heavy support of Tark. But it was just a couple of holier than thou, never played or understood a sport but excelled in dungeons and dragons academians that didn't support Tark.
It just took the right people to bring down Tark, not a huge number.
And here we are, almost 30 years later, still in a tailspin. Never came close to recovering. I don't know that damage to this extent was intended or expected, probably not.... but everything at UNLV is a grave miscalculation so it fits the JC on Maryland Parkway.
The Nazis won. Fans lost.
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Maxon in a landside.
To this day, I'm still dumbfounded about how the University went out of its way to torpedo a basketball powerhouse & its own athletic program.
And it's disheartening because no one in the history of Clark County brought more civic pride & community than Tarkanian and those basketball teams. That championship parade will never be matched in Las Vegas history.
And it was the pathetic motivations that irked me more than anything. Maxon was a petty little man whose envy of Tark could fill up the Grand Canyon.
Maxon's holier-than-thou public diatribes & harangues against Tark that their feud represented the internal struggle of academics vs. athletics was completely grounded in fallacy and deceit. Notwithstanding the fact Tarkanian's program performed a complete 180 in graduating players in very high rates during the 80s and 90s; (The NYTimes even did a story in the early 90s about the supposed "evil" Rebels ending having a higher graduation rate than Hoosier program that they faced in the '87 Final Four) firing Tark did nothing to improve UNLV's academic standing. Tark was a huge figure in bringing in a lot of money and helping build that university.
And in the bizarre twist, Maxon actually loved having a successful basketball program and all the money it brought. More than anything, Maxon - along with a few wealthy boosters including Steve Wynn, Donald Syner, Fred Smith - were just embarrassed about the media portrayal towards UNLV basketball program because of the NCAA issues with their elitist friends at cocktail parties. So they decided it would be easy to replace a Hall of Fame coach who was a perfect fit in Vegas and brought a dynasty to a mid major program. Unfortunately., their plans to bring in a top flight coach who wouldn't embarrass the school didn't end very well for anyone.
The Review Journal likes to write hypothetical articles about what would've happened if Rice had remained as coach. I would've loved to see where UNLV would be if UNLV had stood behind its coach back in the Maxon era. Under that alternative reality, even with probation, UNLV lost a decade where Tark and Grugurich's program would've continued to dominate. And there's no question UNLV would be in a different place today.
To this day, I'm still dumbfounded about how the University went out of its way to torpedo a basketball powerhouse & its own athletic program.
And it's disheartening because no one in the history of Clark County brought more civic pride & community than Tarkanian and those basketball teams. That championship parade will never be matched in Las Vegas history.
And it was the pathetic motivations that irked me more than anything. Maxon was a petty little man whose envy of Tark could fill up the Grand Canyon.
Maxon's holier-than-thou public diatribes & harangues against Tark that their feud represented the internal struggle of academics vs. athletics was completely grounded in fallacy and deceit. Notwithstanding the fact Tarkanian's program performed a complete 180 in graduating players in very high rates during the 80s and 90s; (The NYTimes even did a story in the early 90s about the supposed "evil" Rebels ending having a higher graduation rate than Hoosier program that they faced in the '87 Final Four) firing Tark did nothing to improve UNLV's academic standing. Tark was a huge figure in bringing in a lot of money and helping build that university.
And in the bizarre twist, Maxon actually loved having a successful basketball program and all the money it brought. More than anything, Maxon - along with a few wealthy boosters including Steve Wynn, Donald Syner, Fred Smith - were just embarrassed about the media portrayal towards UNLV basketball program because of the NCAA issues with their elitist friends at cocktail parties. So they decided it would be easy to replace a Hall of Fame coach who was a perfect fit in Vegas and brought a dynasty to a mid major program. Unfortunately., their plans to bring in a top flight coach who wouldn't embarrass the school didn't end very well for anyone.
The Review Journal likes to write hypothetical articles about what would've happened if Rice had remained as coach. I would've loved to see where UNLV would be if UNLV had stood behind its coach back in the Maxon era. Under that alternative reality, even with probation, UNLV lost a decade where Tark and Grugurich's program would've continued to dominate. And there's no question UNLV would be in a different place today.
It’s quite apparent, not that I needed reminding, that all of us who shared in the Rebel experience, through the great years from ’77-’90, to the events that led to Tark’s ouster, have had a group-experience that will live with us to our dying days. To have something that wonderful, ripped away by petty men, is just devastating.
When you choose to allow your emotions to get wrapped up in sports, highs and lows come with the territory. But most of the lows involve losing a game, or missing a playoff spot. Those are usually events which, while genuinely painful, are eventually overcome. They assume their place in your sports memories, and you convince yourself that the next season will bring better results.
But there have been two occurrences in my personal sports history that occupy a place, buried in a hole so deep, that they will never be just another disappointing sports memory. And they both involve The Rebels.
The first is naturally, the topic at hand. The murder of the program and Tark. Every time I think of what transpired, 28 years later, it drives me crazy. How could it happen? Why did it happen? Questions that have no good answers.
The other event that holds a special place in the disappointments of my life, sports or otherwise, is the ’91 loss to Duke in the Final Four. As I previously stated, most games, you absorb the loss and move on. But I will never get past that game. I’ve never had a game leave me literally as if I’d been punched in the stomach, gasping for air. I felt physical pain. And like Tark’s ouster, I cannot, to this day, remember it without re-experiencing that same hurt. It hasn’t lessened one iota.
34-0, The Rebels would have finished their undefeated season, and assumed their rightful place as the all-time greatest. It all went awry after a bullshit call with three-minutes-and-change left, fouling-out Greg Anthony on a block that was called a charge. The Rebels still managed to open a 6-point lead with time winding down. It took an NBA-length three-pointer by (ugh!) Bobby Hurley, to bring Duke back. Yeah, it shouldn’t have been that close. And The Rebels still had a chance as time was expiring. But without their floor-general, LJ seemed confused, and reluctant to take the final shot. It finally fell to Anderson Hunt to throw up a prayer, which clanked off the rim. And what could have been, what should have been, died.
Who the hell started this damn thread?
Go Rebels!
When you choose to allow your emotions to get wrapped up in sports, highs and lows come with the territory. But most of the lows involve losing a game, or missing a playoff spot. Those are usually events which, while genuinely painful, are eventually overcome. They assume their place in your sports memories, and you convince yourself that the next season will bring better results.
But there have been two occurrences in my personal sports history that occupy a place, buried in a hole so deep, that they will never be just another disappointing sports memory. And they both involve The Rebels.
The first is naturally, the topic at hand. The murder of the program and Tark. Every time I think of what transpired, 28 years later, it drives me crazy. How could it happen? Why did it happen? Questions that have no good answers.
The other event that holds a special place in the disappointments of my life, sports or otherwise, is the ’91 loss to Duke in the Final Four. As I previously stated, most games, you absorb the loss and move on. But I will never get past that game. I’ve never had a game leave me literally as if I’d been punched in the stomach, gasping for air. I felt physical pain. And like Tark’s ouster, I cannot, to this day, remember it without re-experiencing that same hurt. It hasn’t lessened one iota.
34-0, The Rebels would have finished their undefeated season, and assumed their rightful place as the all-time greatest. It all went awry after a bullshit call with three-minutes-and-change left, fouling-out Greg Anthony on a block that was called a charge. The Rebels still managed to open a 6-point lead with time winding down. It took an NBA-length three-pointer by (ugh!) Bobby Hurley, to bring Duke back. Yeah, it shouldn’t have been that close. And The Rebels still had a chance as time was expiring. But without their floor-general, LJ seemed confused, and reluctant to take the final shot. It finally fell to Anderson Hunt to throw up a prayer, which clanked off the rim. And what could have been, what should have been, died.
Who the hell started this damn thread?
Go Rebels!
