WE HAVE A CONFERENCE NOW...

[dcut03]

I think the initial 10-15 million media package deal the PAC floated was tiered.

15 million - Original 6 plus Memphis/Tulane/USF/UTSA

That was dream scenario.

There were likely a few others until they got to doomsday scenario which was UNLV and USU.

that was the 10 million.

When UNLV said no, everything got derailed.

If they knew they had 10 million or more in a media deal regardless of who the 8th/9th/10th teams were they could have easily added UTEP or NMSU or Texas State and been done with it.

But they are probably staring at a media deal around 8 million with current configuration which would only be a slight bump from what Boise State is getting now and significantly less than WSU and OSU were getting in old PAC deal.

They had plans in place but definitely never thought it would get to this point.

Adding Gonzaga as full member means one more mouth to feed.

So even if they get Memphis and the package was 100 million you are splitting it 9 ways instead of 8.

As for adding NMSU. There's really no point in adding them now after landing UTEP. Las Cruces is a small market and only 50 miles from El Paso. It's not technically the same market but it may as well be.

Not saying UTEP was a better add but 700k potential viewers vs 100k is massive.

I think there are plenty of better options than NMSU at this point. I'm not bashing NMSU just saying with UNM and UTEP they become redundant. I think you'd rather add timezones.

Say MWC adds Toledo and NIU..I sure as crap would be also contacting WKU, Liberty Sam Houston and Texas State (again). WKU/Toledo and NIU would give Liberty travel partners for football. I'd even consider Liberty as Football only as well. WKU has been pretty solid in football and Sam Houston is playing well after moving up from FCS.

Doesn't do much for basketball but it increases footprint for football and adds Liberty who has some name value the last few years.

I am not sure what the deal would have been with UNLV and USU.

USU drops the value, but I don't think UNLV does much. For instance I think UNLV's value is at least as good as Tulane likely better. Vegas is a bigger market that NOLA, both teams do no have a great hold of their markets.

Hell the Vegas Market is technically better than Memphis, but I think they have a much better market penetration than us.

As for just adding a final team and rolling with it. I think they want to be strategic about this. It's one thing if a team is worth about 5 or 6 million or value like UTAH State, it is another if they are worth less than 1 million, which I think Texas State and Sac State are now. NMSU is probably pretty close to that as well.

Basically I think they would be getting more than 8 mill per team right now if they were allowed to stop at 7. The only detractor currently is Utah State. It is probably over 10 right now. Maybe Gonzaga, but who knows the other parts of that deal. There may be none, but there could some.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Pac and Teresa - absolutely all she cared (cares) about is her job. Yet she is still being trumpeted among the Pac lemmings. The Memphis "deal" was a joke. Even if it happened. They are overrated IMHO. And it goes down from there.

Gonzaga - I hate F-ing Gonzaga. And if they are really going to get a full share with no FB program, AND get to keep half of their NCAA BB credits (other schools will now too but so what), AND of course keep all the money for their OOC games, then adding them was a fool's errand that the Pac will live to regret.

They only added them because they gave them everything and needed something to lock in the teams that left thinking Memphis and co were coming...
Honestly, Gonzaga brings no value other than they "legitimize" the conference in basketball, but even then ,its basically WCC-lite from a few years ago with football teams... Gonzaga---Gonzaga, SDSU- ST. Mary's, Boise--- BYU.. after that I dont see any other team being any more than a possible tournament team here and there, its still going to be a mid-major and will have to compete with the other mid-majors for limited at large bids. Id love to be playing Gonzaga for basketball, that sounds much cooler than UTEP, but man they gave them so much in return for just landing a name in a limited market. and for you, its even more competition in your backyard.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

They only added them because they gave them everything and needed something to lock in the teams that left thinking Memphis and co were coming...
Honestly, Gonzaga brings no value other than they "legitimize" the conference in basketball, but even then ,its basically WCC-lite from a few years ago with football teams... Gonzaga---Gonzaga, SDSU- ST. Mary's, Boise--- BYU.. after that I dont see any other team being any more than a possible tournament team here and there, its still going to be a mid-major and will have to compete with the other mid-majors for limited at large bids. Id love to be playing Gonzaga for basketball, that sounds much cooler than UTEP, but man they gave them so much in return for just landing a name in a limited market. and for you, its even more competition in your backyard.

The same Gonzaga that quit playing WSU because, per their coach, "we don't play bottom-feeders".

 

[RebelinWA]

I am not sure what the deal would have been with UNLV and USU.

USU drops the value, but I don't think UNLV does much. For instance I think UNLV's value is at least as good as Tulane likely better. Vegas is a bigger market that NOLA, both teams do no have a great hold of their markets.

Hell the Vegas Market is technically better than Memphis, but I think they have a much better market penetration than us.

As for just adding a final team and rolling with it. I think they want to be strategic about this. It's one thing if a team is worth about 5 or 6 million or value like UTAH State, it is another if they are worth less than 1 million, which I think Texas State and Sac State are now. NMSU is probably pretty close to that as well.

Basically I think they would be getting more than 8 mill per team right now if they were allowed to stop at 7. The only detractor currently is Utah State. It is probably over 10 right now. Maybe Gonzaga, but who knows the other parts of that deal. There may be none, but there could some.

At this point, I don’t think they have a plan. The longer this takes; the worse it will be for the Pac schools and the greater the leverage interested teams will have. Adding that 8th fb school might bankrupt the conference.

 

[LVRebel2000]

At this point, I don’t think they have a plan. The longer this takes; the worse it will be for the Pac schools and the greater the leverage interested teams will have. Adding that 8th fb school might bankrupt the conference.

I don't think this would happen, but just for arguments sake, let's say that the media deal comes in and it's closer to $6-8 million than the $10-12 million that they were thinking before. And there are no other teams that's realistically going to increase their annual value. Do the teams that are currently full time members put their foot down and tell the new PAC either:
1. Merge with the MWC and figure out the best way to do it to avoid all of these exit fees / poaching fees, etc.,
2. Not bring in an 8th team, which in 2026 would essentially void out the PAC conference due to it not having 8 full time members.
3. Plug their noses and invite a team that they don't want just to get to 8, and ensure that they can continue on as a conference

 

[RebelinWA]

I don't think this would happen, but just for arguments sake, let's say that the media deal comes in and it's closer to $6-8 million than the $10-12 million that they were thinking before. And there are no other teams that's realistically going to increase their annual value. Do the teams that are currently full time members put their foot down and tell the new PAC either:
1. Merge with the MWC and figure out the best way to do it to avoid all of these exit fees / poaching fees, etc.,
2. Not bring in an 8th team, which in 2026 would essentially void out the PAC conference due to it not having 8 full time members.
3. Plug their noses and invite a team that they don't want just to get to 8, and ensure that they can continue on as a conference

Exactly!

1. Swallow their pride and come back; at which point the right move is to let them.

2. Risk being independent. Boise can probably pull that off, but what about everyone else? OSU and WSU are struggling to fill their schedules as is.

3. “Metrics”.

 

[dcut03]

They only added them because they gave them everything and needed something to lock in the teams that left thinking Memphis and co were coming...
Honestly, Gonzaga brings no value other than they "legitimize" the conference in basketball, but even then ,its basically WCC-lite from a few years ago with football teams... Gonzaga---Gonzaga, SDSU- ST. Mary's, Boise--- BYU.. after that I dont see any other team being any more than a possible tournament team here and there, its still going to be a mid-major and will have to compete with the other mid-majors for limited at large bids. Id love to be playing Gonzaga for basketball, that sounds much cooler than UTEP, but man they gave them so much in return for just landing a name in a limited market. and for you, its even more competition in your backyard.

It's a bit better than the WCC.
SDSU is much, much better than every team other than Gonzaga. Even BYU.
The WCC was the big 3 and everyone else. Boise, USU, and CSU have all been bubble teams practically every year. OSU and WAZZU have not been great, but definitely better that even the middle of the old WCC.
Gonzaga is a national brand. Local market size means very little in their cause. Their name brings eyeballs.
Yes on the surface them getting a full share is at least questionable, but there may be something behind the scenes that help drive the value of the entire conference. Also even 1/2 NCAA tournament credits isn't bad when you make the elite 8 every year.

 

[Rebel1986]

I get that. I'm not convinced that the CW is their only media partner, just part of it. I'm guessing a bigger partner is in the mix as well.
But being real, allowing ESPN to cover some games, especially if it is only basketball, will help the overall value of the the contract. As we have seen, ESPN gets the biggest numbers for these types of things. So by having a few big games on ESPN will help "sell" other games on the CW for instance

That is why it is so important for UNLV to beat Oregon State and Boise State and end up as the rep in the playoff. What have you done for me lately is much more important. Put the Pac darling BSU down a notch or two will do a lot of damage to their contract, and on the other side could be a big positive for the MWC.

I am not sure what the deal would have been with UNLV and USU.

USU drops the value, but I don't think UNLV does much. For instance I think UNLV's value is at least as good as Tulane likely better. Vegas is a bigger market that NOLA, both teams do no have a great hold of their markets.

Hell the Vegas Market is technically better than Memphis, but I think they have a much better market penetration than us.

As for just adding a final team and rolling with it. I think they want to be strategic about this. It's one thing if a team is worth about 5 or 6 million or value like UTAH State, it is another if they are worth less than 1 million, which I think Texas State and Sac State are now. NMSU is probably pretty close to that as well.

Basically I think they would be getting more than 8 mill per team right now if they were allowed to stop at 7. The only detractor currently is Utah State. It is probably over 10 right now. Maybe Gonzaga, but who knows the other parts of that deal. There may be none, but there could some.

I am not sure that Memphis has that strong of a hold on their market as they did a decade ago. They are currently averaging about 24K per game in attendance in comparison to the mid 30's back a decade or two. With Tennessee playing well, it has reduced the support for Memphis. On the other side UNLV has gone up from averaging around 16-18K to around 27K so far this year and an expected crowd at the BSU game of between 35-40K based on current ticket sales which are already at around 33K based on a comparison to the Syracuse game. Also UNLV TV ratings have jumped this season with the FS1 game against Syracuse having viewership numbers of 700K which would be the 4th highest of the season on FS1 out of 22 games.

 

[dcut03]

I don't think this would happen, but just for arguments sake, let's say that the media deal comes in and it's closer to $6-8 million than the $10-12 million that they were thinking before. And there are no other teams that's realistically going to increase their annual value. Do the teams that are currently full time members put their foot down and tell the new PAC either:
1. Merge with the MWC and figure out the best way to do it to avoid all of these exit fees / poaching fees, etc.,
2. Not bring in an 8th team, which in 2026 would essentially void out the PAC conference due to it not having 8 full time members.
3. Plug their noses and invite a team that they don't want just to get to 8, and ensure that they can continue on as a conference

95% that they go with option 3.

It is just much too late to merge now. I just don't see it happening.

If they add a no name school that is worth 1 penny to the contratc to get to 8 now, they are still getting at least 8 mil per team. Which will be better than a merger payout.

 

[dcut03]

That is why it is so important for UNLV to beat Oregon State and Boise State and end up as the rep in the playoff. What have you done for me lately is much more important. Put the Pac darling BSU down a notch or two will do a lot of damage to their contract, and on the other side could be a big positive for the MWC.

I am not sure that Memphis has that strong of a hold on their market as they did a decade ago. They are currently averaging about 24K per game in attendance in comparison to the mid 30's back a decade or two. With Tennessee playing well, it has reduced the support for Memphis. On the other side UNLV has gone up from averaging around 16-18K to around 27K so far this year and an expected crowd at the BSU game of between 35-40K based on current ticket sales which are already at around 33K based on a comparison to the Syracuse game. Also UNLV TV ratings have jumped this season with the FS1 game against Syracuse having viewership numbers of 700K which would be the 4th highest of the season on FS1 out of 22 games.

Our stock is for sure going up. I am happy how well the tickets have been going for Boise. It should have been this way for Syracuse, but I will take it.

Winning is very, very important. If we have a good showing against Boise it can pay dividends.

Hell my brother in Vegas (ASU grad) who cares little about college sports, is trying to catch as many football games as possible. He went to the Fresno game with my dad and became a fan. This is what we need! The product has been good. I can see this continue to improve.

But I also think we need to try to take advantage of this 2 year window with the current MW. Unless we are just an established preseason top 25 program in the new MW, I think the excitement dies. Given what our schedule will look like, I can still see it dwindle some.

My hope that is the time frame for a Big 12 invite. It is at least our ability to make to best impression.

 

[LVRebel2000]

Our stock is for sure going up. I am happy how well the tickets have been going for Boise. It should have been this way for Syracuse, but I will take it.

Winning is very, very important. If we have a good showing against Boise it can pay dividends.

Hell my brother in Vegas (ASU grad) who cares little about college sports, is trying to catch as many football games as possible. He went to the Fresno game with my dad and became a fan. This is what we need! The product has been good. I can see this continue to improve.

But I also think we need to try to take advantage of this 2 year window with the current MW. Unless we are just an established preseason top 25 program in the new MW, I think the excitement dies. Given what our schedule will look like, I can still see it dwindle some.

My hope that is the time frame for a Big 12 invite. It is at least our ability to make to best impression.

I think UNLV needs to make the game day experience a bit more "Vegas". I don't know what that looks like exactly, but VGK games are fun, and from what I hear, totally different than games at all other NHL arenas. Maybe UNLV can do a bit to enhance the game day experience to draw in even more casual fans. Obviously, you need to be successful (winning) to keep it going, but just thinking outside the box a bit. I like the idea of bringing in some bands to play either at halftime, or maybe after the game. I don't know the logistics, but something like that could be cool

 

[LVRebel2000]

95% that they go with option 3.
It is just much too late to merge now. I just don't see it happening.
If they add a no name school that is worth 1 penny to the contratc to get to 8 now, they are still getting at least 8 mil per team. Which will be better than a merger payout.

Not necessarily. According to reports, the MWC contract with Hawaii should still be around 6 million. If you added the PAC schools back in, I'd think you'd still be in the vicinity of 8 per team.

Plus, you could restructure some of the payout for NCAA tournament and bowl game payouts, rewarding the teams that make it, as opposed to sharing everything.

 

[Rebel1986]

I notice on the ratings for the UNLV v Syracuse game on FS1 they had a total of 698K viewers. This game went up against the Houston v TCU game on ESPN and the Michigan State v Oregon game on Fox also both on Friday.

In comparison the game this last weekend also on a Friday on FS1 between Northwestern and Maryland had 712K viewers. This game went up against the PV A&M v Arkansas Pine Bluff game on ESPN2, Harvard v Cornell on ESPN2 and the Utah v Arizona State game on ESPN.

The ESPN and Fox game on the same weekend as UNLV drew a lot more viewers than the ESPN game on the Friday in which Northwestern and Maryland played each other, but they only had 14K more viewers. I would be willing to bet the UNLV v Syracuse would have done much better in viewership on that weekend.

 

[Rebel1986]

I think UNLV needs to make the game day experience a bit more "Vegas". I don't know what that looks like exactly, but VGK games are fun, and from what I hear, totally different than games at all other NHL arenas. Maybe UNLV can do a bit to enhance the game day experience to draw in even more casual fans. Obviously, you need to be successful (winning) to keep it going, but just thinking outside the box a bit. I like the idea of bringing in some bands to play either at halftime, or maybe after the game. I don't know the logistics, but something like that could be cool

They had a mariachi band at the last game at half time, does that qualify?

 

[LVRebel2000]

They had a mariachi band at the last game at half time, does that qualify?

I actually liked that. But maybe something a bit more exciting.

 

[WarthogRebel]

What are the current PAC 7 exit fees??

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

What are the current PAC 7 exit fees??

30 million..I think.

 

[reagan21]

What are the current PAC 7 exit fees??

$40M if before 7/1/26, unless for a P4. It decreases but I can't remember how much. I think it's $20M if after 7/1/26. That contract will be Exhibit 2 to the lawsuit between the Pac7 and the MWC. Hilarious that they say such liquidated damages are unenforceable and then the ask their own school to sign an outrageous exit fee agreement.

 

[reagan21]

Utah State's Official Contract with the PAC-12 - USUStats Blog

This past week has been a whirlwind for Utah State athletics. A week ago today, Utah State accepted an invitation to the latest iteration of the PAC-12. In doing so, the Aggies joined Oregon State, Washington State, and fellow Mountain West schools Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, and…

www.usustats.com

 

[dcut03]

Not necessarily. According to reports, the MWC contract with Hawaii should still be around 6 million. If you added the PAC schools back in, I'd think you'd still be in the vicinity of 8 per team.

Plus, you could restructure some of the payout for NCAA tournament and bowl game payouts, rewarding the teams that make it, as opposed to sharing everything.

So whatever it is the PAC will be more. Significantly more.
There is absolutely no freaking way that they PAC will get the same now as with a full merger. That makes zero sense. You don't add the 4 best markets plus a middle market from one conference added to 2 markets that are at least above average MW markets and cut out all the fat and get similar numbers with combining everyone.
If we are getting 6, then the PAC is getting 11+. If the pac is getting 8 now, ther MW will be getting maybe 4.5.
It is all relative. Whatever the number is, their value per team is significantly better than ours right now.
Sharing the revenue with our weaker markets will tank the contract. A merger will do that.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Utah State's Official Contract with the PAC-12 - USUStats Blog

This past week has been a whirlwind for Utah State athletics. A week ago today, Utah State accepted an invitation to the latest iteration of the PAC-12. In doing so, the Aggies joined Oregon State, Washington State, and fellow Mountain West schools Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, and…

www.usustats.com

Ok the one most ridiculous thing is that the team(s) that make the CFP or Big Dance get 1/2 the revenue, but the relevant expenses are split between all schools. Who the F wrote that up? And who controls the expenses? Does Gonzaga (I hate them) get to stay at the Ritz and eat lobster and hand the check to the Pac?

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Utah State's Official Contract with the PAC-12 - USUStats Blog

This past week has been a whirlwind for Utah State athletics. A week ago today, Utah State accepted an invitation to the latest iteration of the PAC-12. In doing so, the Aggies joined Oregon State, Washington State, and fellow Mountain West schools Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, and…

www.usustats.com

Ok the one most ridiculous thing is that the team(s) that make the CFP or Big Dance get 1/2 the revenue, but the relevant expenses are split between all schools. Who the F wrote that up? And who controls the expenses? Does Gonzaga (I hate them) get to stay at the Ritz and eat lobster and hand the check to the Pac?

yes

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Utah State's Official Contract with the PAC-12 - USUStats Blog

This past week has been a whirlwind for Utah State athletics. A week ago today, Utah State accepted an invitation to the latest iteration of the PAC-12. In doing so, the Aggies joined Oregon State, Washington State, and fellow Mountain West schools Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, and…

www.usustats.com

I like the idea giving 50% of the NCAA Tournament units to members for Women's Basketball. We will clean up on that. On the Men's side it won't do us any good.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I like the idea giving 50% of the NCAA Tournament units to members for Women's Basketball. We will clean up on that. On the Men's side it won't do us any good.

Who's we?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Who's we?

Holy.....

Just read that WSU is 100 million in debt for athletics?!?!

Oregon State is around 40 million?!?!

Both schools were operating on 20 million dollar media rights deals. How the hell are they going to function on possibly half that.

Is this why the PAC low balled Memphis offering to pay 2.5 million of exit fees?

What was the 'war chest' that they got from all the PAC exit stuff 200 million?

I know a lot of schools tend to carry some athletic department debt but 100 million?

I don't know maybe PAC leadership has a rabbit up the sleeve but it's starting to look like they may have overplayed their hand. Over valued the PAC brand.

If they can't structure a media rights deal upwards of 12-15 million what the hell was the point of all this?

Not putting this all on the PAC schools. I get the feeling Boise and SDSU both were big players in trying to make this happen.

But if they had a 15 million dollar media valuation sitting in front of them why not add Hawaii or Texas Stare or whoever and be done with it?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Holy.....

Just read that WSU is 100 million in debt for athletics?!?!

Oregon State is around 40 million?!?!

Both schools were operating on 20 million dollar media rights deals. How the hell are they going to function on possibly half that.

Is this why the PAC low balled Memphis offering to pay 2.5 million of exit fees?

What was the 'war chest' that they got from all the PAC exit stuff 200 million?

I know a lot of schools tend to carry some athletic department debt but 100 million?

I don't know maybe PAC leadership has a rabbit up the sleeve but it's starting to look like they may have overplayed their hand. Over valued the PAC brand.

If they can't structure a media rights deal upwards of 12-15 million what the hell was the point of all this?

Not putting this all on the PAC schools. I fet the feeling Boise and SDSU both were big players in trying to make this happen.

But if they had a 15 million dollar media valuation sitting in front of them why not add Hawaii or Texas Stare or whoever and be done with it?

Oh hell yeah WSU is awash in debt. Short history lesson:
Right after Mike Leach was hired, WSU spent somewhere around $140M on our stadium, mostly on replacing our single-wide trailer press box with a much-needed and very nice structure, luxury boxes, loge seating, etc., and on a "Football-only" building overlooking one end zone. $140M total that is. Bad news we lost 2-3,000 seats by doing so. All to be paid for by the massive revenue influx from the Pac-12 network. Guess what? The Pac-12 network flopped badly. IMHO, both were needed improvements, but we went too far on a wing and a prayer. Thank then AD and Cougar legend Bill Moos (who then bolted for Nebraska), and Pres. Elson Floyd (RIP).

Since then we have also had deficits in our Athletics budgets more often than not. Right now we (and OSU) are living off of our war chest while also throwing it away on poaching fees. But why the F would we want to do that essentially free reverse merger and use some of that saved money to pay down debt? Because we were and still are arrogant and incompetent. WSU and Pac-2 that is.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Who's we?

Sorry about that. What I meant was I wish we (UNLV) had that in the MW. Our Lady Rebels have dominated the current 11 schools in basketball.

It's why I always wanted WSU in our conference because you would have been great competition for the Lady Rebels. Instead of a one bid league we would have two going to the dance.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Oh hell yeah WSU is awash in debt. Short history lesson:
Right after Mike Leach was hired, WSU spent somewhere around $140M on our stadium, mostly on replacing our single-wide trailer press box with a much-needed and very nice structure, luxury boxes, loge seating, etc., and on a "Football-only" building overlooking one end zone. $140M total that is. Bad news we lost 2-3,000 seats by doing so. All to be paid for by the massive revenue influx from the Pac-12 network. Guess what? The Pac-12 network flopped badly. IMHO, both were needed improvements, but we went too far on a wing and a prayer. Thank then AD and Cougar legend Bill Moos (who then bolted for Nebraska), and Pres. Elson Floyd (RIP).

Since then we have also had deficits in our Athletics budgets more often than not. Right now we (and OSU) are living off of our war chest while also throwing it away on poaching fees. But why the F would we want to do that essentially free reverse merger and use some of that saved money to pay down debt? Because we were and still are arrogant and incompetent. WSU and Pac-2 that is.

Not directed at you, you've been on reverse merger wagon from the start.

You said something early on (paraphrasing here) the enemy was on the inside. And I 99.99% ( I hate speaking in absolutes) think Boise and SDSU were the catalysts.

They overvalued their own worth. They overvalued the PAC brand.

I think the PAC might have been Mick Cronined (Former Cincy BB coach who leveraged UNLV for better contract with Cincy) by the AAC schools. Memphis 'Oh yeah we're definitely in.' let's do this! All the while negotiating a better deal out of the AAC when next media rightss get negotiated.

WSU and OSU could have jumped into MWC. They have all they old PAC12 broadcasting stuff. New MWC could have gone to potential new media partners saying look how much money this will save you.

Probably bumped current MWC package up to 8 million. WSU and OSU would have had all that money to absolve debt and still had plenty left over for infrastructure, courting NIL partners etc.

Either they have some amazing plan they've yet to unveil or this was and absolute comedy of errors, arrogance and ineptitude.

Best G5 conference in the country with plenty of upside. Instead we're in this cluster.

 

[Rebel1986]

Oh hell yeah WSU is awash in debt. Short history lesson:
Right after Mike Leach was hired, WSU spent somewhere around $140M on our stadium, mostly on replacing our single-wide trailer press box with a much-needed and very nice structure, luxury boxes, loge seating, etc., and on a "Football-only" building overlooking one end zone. $140M total that is. Bad news we lost 2-3,000 seats by doing so. All to be paid for by the massive revenue influx from the Pac-12 network. Guess what? The Pac-12 network flopped badly. IMHO, both were needed improvements, but we went too far on a wing and a prayer. Thank then AD and Cougar legend Bill Moos (who then bolted for Nebraska), and Pres. Elson Floyd (RIP).

Since then we have also had deficits in our Athletics budgets more often than not. Right now we (and OSU) are living off of our war chest while also throwing it away on poaching fees. But why the F would we want to do that essentially free reverse merger and use some of that saved money to pay down debt? Because we were and still are arrogant and incompetent. WSU and Pac-2 that is.

The more I read, particularly after reading the Utah State deal with the PAC, the more I am happy UNLV was smarting enough to stay out of that mess. UNLV priority is to fill the football stadium, win games and keep coach Odom. With around 33K seats already out for the Boise State game, UNLV is moving in the right direction. Next up is to make the state of Nevada 2-0 verse Oregon State.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

The more I read, particularly after reading the Utah State deal with the PAC, the more I am happy UNLV was smarting enough to stay out of that mess. UNLV priority is to fill the football stadium, win games and keep coach Odom. With around 33K seats already out for the Boise State game, UNLV is moving in the right direction. Next up is to make the state of Nevada 2-0 verse Oregon State.

33k + 2. I bought tickets today and will be driving from CO. As long as the weather cooperates over the Rockies I should make it on time.

 

[Rebel1986]

33k + 2. I bought tickets today and will be driving from CO. As long as the weather cooperates over the Rockies I should make it on time.

Bring some friends along and fill up the stadium!

 

[unlvlurker]

Texas State and Sam Houston (All Sports)
NIU and Toledo (FB only)
Liberty and WKU all sports.

I know some folks prefer keeping conference smaller less mouths to feed and I get it. I think 9 or 10 makes most sense.

But I wonder what those additions would add to media deal. Liberty has some name value. Multiple timezones (TV) New recruiting pipeline. Two Texas markets.

I’m 💯 all in for this.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I’m 💯 all in for this.

I don't know if it's viable or not. It really would come down to what each of these schools would add to a media package.

Pure speculation on my part but let's say you add Toledo/NIU and the knew MWC media deal was 80 million. To entice NIU and Toledo when factoring travel/exit fees and them finding new homes for their other sports you might have to give the close to full shares. (Maybe half but for the ease of math let's say full. I'm horrible at math so using 100 million to make it easy.

That's 100 million divided by 10 giving each school 10 million dollars. If you add WKU and say Sam Houston and the media deal is now 105 million your now dividing it by 12 and suddenly everybody is only getting 8.75 million.

There is a point of diminishing returns when you add schools so you do have to be selective.

What I do think though is if MWC does add NIU or Toledo or even both, it does open the door on other teams in the East..WKU for example and possibly even Liberty since they would now have travel partners reducing costs.

I think if MWC misses out on Toledo and NIU you evaluate the cost benefits of WKU and Sam Houston State and look at Texas State again.

 

[RebelinWA]

Not directed at you, you've been on reverse merger wagon from the start.

You said something early on (paraphrasing here) the enemy was on the inside. And I 99.99% ( I hate speaking in absolutes) think Boise and SDSU were the catalysts.

They overvalued their own worth. They overvalued the PAC brand.

I think the PAC might have been Mick Cronined (Former Cincy BB coach who leveraged UNLV for better contract with Cincy) by the AAC schools. Memphis 'Oh yeah we're definitely in.' let's do this! All the while negotiating a better deal out of the AAC when next media rightss get negotiated.

WSU and OSU could have jumped into MWC. They have all they old PAC12 broadcasting stuff. New MWC could have gone to potential new media partners saying look how much money this will save you.

Probably bumped current MWC package up to 8 million. WSU and OSU would have had all that money to absolve debt and still had plenty left over for infrastructure, courting NIL partners etc.

Either they have some amazing plan they've yet to unveil or this was and absolute comedy of errors, arrogance and ineptitude.

Best G5 conference in the country with plenty of upside. Instead we're in this cluster.

This won’t happen because of pride. BUT the Pac schools could vote to dissolve. Its not what they want. They probably expected the MW to vote to dissolve to absolve them of having to pay those exit fees.

Either way, they will all become independent non conference schools if they don’t bet whatever is left in the “war chest” on that 8th football school.

Its all seriously stupid. Together we would have been a G+ conference. Better than the other G conferences, but worse than the P4. Now each school makes less, and the product for the fanbases is worse overall.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

This won’t happen because of pride. BUT the Pac schools could vote to dissolve. Its not what they want. They probably expected the MW to vote to dissolve to absolve them of having to pay those exit fees.

Either way, they will all become independent non conference schools if they don’t bet whatever is left in the “war chest” on that 8th football school.

Its all seriously stupid. Together we would have been a G+ conference. Better than the other G conferences, but worse than the P4. Now each school makes less, and the product for the fanbases is worse overall.

Anything is possible but a merger of any kind at this point seems unlikely.

There's ego involved. I think some professional relationships damaged. Trust out the window. Wyoming AD interview was pretty revealing. He wasn't blatant about it, but you could tell he was pretty disgusted by the whole thing.

 

[RebelinWA]

Anything is possible but a merger of any kind at this point seems unlikely.

There's ego involved. I think some professional relationships damaged. Trust out the window. Wyoming AD interview was pretty revealing. He wasn't blatant about it, but you could tell he was pretty disgusted by the whole thing.

I think an immediate merger has no shot for the reasons you stated; but the odds do increase (slightly, like a couple of percentage decimal points) the closer we get to 2026 and there is no 8th member.

I would have a hard time believing any AD wants to hang their hat on this type of decision. Its difficult to get fired from that type of cushy job. But a perceived bad decision for enough boosters for something like this would be enough.

 

[Masked_rebel]

I think one thing to also consider is the cost to leave leagues is going to get steeper with less notice. At this point, they are now probably in that 1 year window, so any target that is currently in say the AAC or CUSA may have a steeper penalty with half the football season gone. Im not sure how the calendars work with that, but the more time they take the harder/costlier it is going to become.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I think an immediate merger has no shot for the reasons you stated; but the odds do increase (slightly, like a couple of percentage decimal points) the closer we get to 2026 and there is no 8th member.

I would have a hard time believing any AD wants to hang their hat on this type of decision. Its difficult to get fired from that type of cushy job. But a perceived bad decision for enough boosters for something like this would be enough.

If PAC is unable to secure members that get them to a media valuation north of 8-9 million a year I guess it would be possible.

 

[LVRebel2000]

This is a post from a guy on the Wazzu board. I'm not sure if it's accurate on the $4/viewer thing, but it feels like a somewhat reasonable (but low) number to me.

Post:
We (Wazzu) are going to consistently get about 400K in viewers. The rule of thumb I've read is about $4/viewer (yes ad revenue doesn't work that way). So if we have 6 home games to sell at $1.6M, expect about $9.6M in media revenue. Add a little bit more for basketball and I see us coming in around $10M annually for media personally.

I think we should seriously look at bringing the Pac-12 network back. If ran correctly, and efficiently, the "subs" would provide both additional TV exposure but some level of added revenue.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I think one thing to also consider is the cost to leave leagues is going to get steeper with less notice. At this point, they are now probably in that 1 year window, so any target that is currently in say the AAC or CUSA may have a steeper penalty with half the football season gone. Im not sure how the calendars work with that, but the more time they take the harder/costlier it is going to become.

Let me ask you this.

PAC could at any moment add a NMSU or whoever to get to eight. NMSU or pretty much any CUSA school would jump ship. CUSA media deal is under a million so anything is better.

What I'm getting at is this, after the PAC finishes their media valuation (How the hell had they not done this already?) what is the minimum number that makes rebuilding the PAC even viable/sustainable?

I think Boise with their sweetheart deal was around 7 million? Vs rest of conference around 5.

WSU is in serious debt (100m) OSU debt is double UNLVs. They were operating on 20 million budget before.

I don't know, I mean maybe with current lineup PAC can get to 8m per school? If the conferences were to merge plus addition of El Paso market, Gonzaga basketball, and Hawaii full membership (helps media deal) could a merged MWC/PAC pull close to 10?

I dont think a merger is likely possible now but I wonder if there is a doomsday point for the PAC where they say this isn't gonna work..