Two more wins?
- Thread starter Rebelsss
- Start date
I sure hope so. If we finish 1-6 or 0-7 after the 4-1 start this season would be a huge disappointment. Going into the year I knew this would be a tough 5 game stretch. Even though we have looked terrible the last 2 weeks I still expect us to beat Hawaii and UNR.
Does it really matter, going 6-6 is great if you look at records, but beating Hawaii and Reno at end! It means basically UNLV beat some worst teams in football, USU would beat UNLV now!
This coaching staff stinks, no way AFA is 42 to 7 better on talent, coaching yes!
If anyone thinks Arroyo getting P5 job anytime soon, needs to wake up, he's MM of UNLV, now we know why you play Idaho st and NTST at home, you need to beat weak to get wins and MWC smells.
AFA threw ball 3 times ran it 76 times, everyone knew what they were going to do but UNLV, I hope ND scores 80 on this staff and they lose out.
I am beyond pissed, year 3 and just bending over to top half of MWC is BS, this conference top teams would be like Northwestern or Vanderbilts of Big 10 or SEC, oh wait Vanderbilt put 63 on Hawaii.
Losing QB is one thing, but you rally troops and compete, they got embarrassed the last 2 weeks.
Bring Marvelous One to join staff.
At least hoops is around corner
This coaching staff stinks, no way AFA is 42 to 7 better on talent, coaching yes!
If anyone thinks Arroyo getting P5 job anytime soon, needs to wake up, he's MM of UNLV, now we know why you play Idaho st and NTST at home, you need to beat weak to get wins and MWC smells.
AFA threw ball 3 times ran it 76 times, everyone knew what they were going to do but UNLV, I hope ND scores 80 on this staff and they lose out.
I am beyond pissed, year 3 and just bending over to top half of MWC is BS, this conference top teams would be like Northwestern or Vanderbilts of Big 10 or SEC, oh wait Vanderbilt put 63 on Hawaii.
Losing QB is one thing, but you rally troops and compete, they got embarrassed the last 2 weeks.
Bring Marvelous One to join staff.
At least hoops is around corner
I can understand scoring 7.....but giving up 40 , two weeks in a row has nothing to do with losing our quarterback
If we don’t get to six wins with two simple games still happening … then many of the “EXTEND HIM” chants will turn into “Fire Him!”
finishing 5-7 would be an absolute disaster in my mind.
If they get 6-6 and get an invite to the Stay Puft Marshmallow Bowl to take on Walla Walla State, I think almost everyone will be ok with it.
Coo-CooCoo- That's good morning in pigeon talk. I guess you could say last night's performance was another feather in your cap. With Colorado's win ove Cal., I think we have a great shot of being atop the Bottom 10 list. While you'll beat Nevada, Hawaii has found their sea legs and you don't have much of a shot against anyone else. Aloha
Backing into 6-6, that’s the best this team’s going to do. I am not a fan of Arroyo and have said so many times, he’s a decent not great recruiter and his play calling is just horrendous. No feel for being creative and this season will cool off the recruiting he does because it’s clear he’s not a true head man type of coach!
The tell tale sign was when the ref went into the stands to tell our band director that they couldn’t play!!
Wish I was in the band, I would have thrown my clarinet at the guy!!!
Wish I was in the band, I would have thrown my clarinet at the guy!!!
Sdsu,reno & Hawaii ... We probably win two of the three. Maybe we can sneak another win in elsewhere
Play calling and design is relatively bland, but I don’t think it’s been “bad”.
Overall team psyche is a concern. It just seems like it’s woven into our football DNA. There’s no doubt we’ve had gamers and tough guys in our history, but it seems like as a unit, we are pretty weak minded. We don’t take jabs well.
Usually when I see teams that fold easily like this is from a lack of player leadership. Maybe that's the problem? Coaches can yap all they want about playing hard, staying focused etc... Veteran player leadership has to be there though.
Perhaps. But it’s sad that we always see it.
And we have seen it in basketball as well and it tends to be peer leadership more than anything. It’s great when your best player is your best leader … worked well with Kruger/Kruger. But even more talented teams since then, they had the bodies and talent to compete at high level … and I can promise you I know what coaches drilled home to these fellas. But I’m telling you, we had some super softies with high talent, I don’t need to name them, you all saw it on the TV.
So yeah, I do think you are on to something.
We all knew this was a tough 3 game stretch. But damn. We did not even show up the last 2 weeks.... For me very troublesome. I do not know what to expect out of this team going forward.
I figured we’d lose. But not in the manner we have. We folded in both games 5 seconds into the game.
There was a drive right before the half where we got a stop on defense and then the offense went down the field and scored. There was a lot of energy in the building after the defensive stop and it carried over to the offense. Guys were blocking, catching the ball etc. But then ..poof.. it's gone. To me that's a signal that they just don't match the other teams intensity.
.. but if we could we would play well.
.. but if we could we would play well.
I felt the slightest glimmer of hope at that point. It would have been nice to receive the kick in the second half … instead they did, and they scored and that sealed it in my mind, even though it’d have taken a huge improbability.
If your offense isn't scoring or moving the ball, you are defending shorter fields. Your defense will be on the field more resulting in fatigue. Offensive turnovers lead to extra possessions to opponents equaling more points given up.
He is supposed to be the QB Guru and after 3 yrs the best he can come up with is an injury prone Sanchez recruit tO to play QB.
I think we can all see he had very little to do with Herbert. Someone here who goes to Oregon games, said the Ducks were looking to go in a new direction and we’re going to can Arroyo. Well now I can see why they don’t miss him!
The first drive was looking good. Then fumble. We can't stop them. Then another turnover. AFA TD on a short field.
Spotting Air Force 14 is a tough thing to do. Changes the game plan.
Did matter, probably not.Personally I think this game was lost on defense. We couldn't stop them at all. The first option. Was gashing us for 5 yds+ a carry. Run defense has been spotty to bad all year.
Even with Brum we lose this game. You have to stop them, and we had no idea how to. Fatigue became a factor likely, but they ran it down our throats when we were fresh. That part is probably the biggest disappointment for me personally. Knowing we never had a shot
Spotting Air Force 14 is a tough thing to do. Changes the game plan.
Did matter, probably not.Personally I think this game was lost on defense. We couldn't stop them at all. The first option. Was gashing us for 5 yds+ a carry. Run defense has been spotty to bad all year.
Even with Brum we lose this game. You have to stop them, and we had no idea how to. Fatigue became a factor likely, but they ran it down our throats when we were fresh. That part is probably the biggest disappointment for me personally. Knowing we never had a shot
Agree with all that except the run defense has been spotty all year.
It was good for four games. North Texas isn't great but they can run the ball and Rebs were able to contain it pretty easily.
Something not being discussed is they were down 3 DL guys for this game. Notably Plant and Fahina was still out.
We just aren't a deep enough team to absorb many injuries.
Not making an excuse for that performance just pointing it out.
Fair enough, but UNM got us on the ground too. waay more than they should mostly on traditional running plays ( and read option). UNT was able to march down the field on us several times running traditional run plays, but yes they are a good running team. SJSU did the same to us as well but also killed us on the read option.
Our ability to score has forced other teams to throw a bit more.
Also fair point about guys being out.
But they did whatever they wanted, just like last year. Needing 3 pass attempts in 2 years means that we gave them zero problems. Good scheme and gameplanning doesn't allow that to happen, that is more than just personnel.
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First downs AF 26 Rebels 9
Total yards AF 420 Rebels 179
Only 9 first downs against an undersized and 1/2 step slow defense. Allow 420 yards of offense when you KNOW exactly what they are going to do.
I'll be very surprised if we win more than 1 more game.
Total yards AF 420 Rebels 179
Only 9 first downs against an undersized and 1/2 step slow defense. Allow 420 yards of offense when you KNOW exactly what they are going to do.
I'll be very surprised if we win more than 1 more game.
They do whatever they want against most teams on the ground.
There is this ridiculous perception (not by you speaking in general terms) that this should be an easy offense to defend.
I hear all kinds of reasons why it should be easy to stop.
'We have better athletes!'
Tell that to the OU defense (Kyler Murray's Heisman year) when Army almost knocked off the Sooners in Norman. You can't have a bigger disparity in talent/athletic level than that.
Just because they run the ball doesn't make it any less innovative than what guys like Chip Kelly and Mike Leach do.
Casual observer sure. Meh, they just hand off.. But, there are multiple runs out of similiar sets. They are constantly showing different motion. Blocking schemes change...
They gut you up the middle, your DL/LBs pinch in, they gash you outside.
That offense is every bit as nuanced as any out there.
To defend it.
Guys have to read the right keys or guess right.
DL guys have to win individual battles (when they aren't getting cut blocked)
DBs absolutely must shed blocks to limit outside runs.
Rebs did none of that.
I never meant to ensinuate that we should have dominated them by any means.
But other teams have done much better against them, teams that have arguably worse defenses.
Wyoming did a very good job against them, not sure how our defenses match up, but that game could at least provide a bit of a template.
It's more frustrating after they just crushed us last year too, talk about putting extra time preparing for them throughout the offseason just to lay a steaming turd again.
First part of defending the triple option is stopping the dive. We couldn't do that, it's not like they really had to open the play book to do what they did.
I'm just saying that there really isn't a good excuse why we got blasted as bad as we did.
Offense crapped the bed, arguably worse than the D, but a little more understandable given the injury situation. Still should have done better. Air Force has given up their fair share of points this season, and that with controlling the ball.
If we're being honest, they didn't even hit us with a ton of exotic triple option stuff, most of the second half they were just running standard running game formations and schemes. Power, Counter, Dive, Trap, Off-tackle. They didn't need the chunk yards they were getting in those first few drives where they attacked the edge and used a lot of misdirection. Roberts was getting 5 yards a carry and AFA is content to give him the ball 20 times in a row if you can't stop the run between the tackles.
We couldn't stop either iteration.
Playing a good triple option requires discipline and understanding that you need to take away the FB/HB dive game especially on early downs. You have to know your gap responsibilities, understand that you have to follow the pull and not over-penetrate. You have to watch for the crack back, the cut block and the different counter and reverse game. Your ends have to set the edge, and your backers and CBs have to get off of TE/CB blocks.
We didn't do any of those things.
We couldn't stop either iteration.
Playing a good triple option requires discipline and understanding that you need to take away the FB/HB dive game especially on early downs. You have to know your gap responsibilities, understand that you have to follow the pull and not over-penetrate. You have to watch for the crack back, the cut block and the different counter and reverse game. Your ends have to set the edge, and your backers and CBs have to get off of TE/CB blocks.
We didn't do any of those things.
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My brother said Caleb Herring was saying something about how the Rebs were defending the option on the radio. Didn't catch all of it but the gist was they may have tried something out of the norm and it backfired/they over thought it.
Sure teams do better against it. Be hard pressed to do worse.
Rest of my rant wasn't directed at you, just arguing against the typical arguments that get thrown out there that it should be an easy offense to defend because all they do is run.
It's like saying Mike Leach's offense should be easy to defend because all they do is pass. Just drop 7-8 in coverage! Leach's offense can struggle against teams that can get pressure by rushing only 4 guys. If you can't, his QBs will pick you apart because DBs can only cover for so long.
"You can't have a bigger disparity in talent/athletic level than that."
Usually, talent and athleticism rule. But not always.
A good example of this is NYC basketball in the 1920's and 30's. Jewish players and teams were competitive and sometimes dominate although they were usually shorter and somewhat slower. Their dominance came from skill at ball handling, outstanding shooting and TEAMWORK.
This is where Air Force excels. Their entire culture is teamwork.
I think anytime you can perfect or near perfect an unorthodox scheme, offensively or defensively, in basketball or football … you can level the playing field when there is a talent/size/athleticism difference. You don’t have to look too far back and there are plenty of examples. Discipline and perfecting a system can easily trump talent, not always … but we’ve seen it happen.
Couldn't agree more with this. It's a very sophisticated offense that they are very good at running. A week of practice won't do it.
Correct. Should Rebs have been steamrolled like they were? Probably not. Pretty discouraging actually.
Fahina and Plant out hurt didn't help.
But it's a tough offense to prepare for a few reasons.
Most teams are probably reluctant to cut block their own players in practice. It's hard to mimic their blocking schemes. You typically don't have a QB or player that can run it.
So it comes down to some things I mentioned.
DL guys have to win in situations where they are 1v1.
LBs have to recognize and react to their keys or hope they guess right.
DBs have to shed blocks on the outside.
Rebs didn't do any of those things particularly well.
Also our dbs aren't used to that level of blocking from the afa receivers (since that's pretty much all they do). Just a lot of things UNLV can't simulate in practice like you said
And Darius looked like he played through pain as well. Hopefully he's good to go and Plant comes back.
I'll be honest I did not like how this team responded the last two weeks.
Great opening drive ends in a fumble. AF drives right down. Fumble on kick return, give up quick score. You need your defense to stand up and make a stop or hold them to 3 points...Instead you're down 21 instead of 13 or 17, where a score or two and you're right back in it.
Against AF if you get down 3 TDs it's like being down 4 scores. They eat up so much clock you probably won't get enough possessions to come back. Even if you hold them to a 3 and out, they burn another 2 plus minutes off the clock.
I absolutely hate the 'next man up argument'. It's stupid. If the next man up was as good as the guy he's replacing, he'd be the starter.
There's obviously going to be drop off when there are injuries. It shouldn't be quite as steep as what we just witnessed though..
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Speaking of injuries, did anything happen to Robbins?
I was lucky enough where I could not watch the game live, so I watched it the next day and was mercifully able to fast fwd through big chunks of the game. I noticed that they seemingly pulled Robbins entirely from the game. I did not see any report during or after the game.
I was lucky enough where I could not watch the game live, so I watched it the next day and was mercifully able to fast fwd through big chunks of the game. I noticed that they seemingly pulled Robbins entirely from the game. I did not see any report during or after the game.
Also, the points that you have made are all very valid. This is a very tough offense to defend, and it takes a lot of prep to defend it appropriately.
That being said, we did a terrible job against it. Arguably worse than last year, which was also a disaster. If every team played as poorly against them as we did, they would be undefeated and in the top 25.
Every team has to prepare for this, and most other teams have faired much better than we have.
The last 2 seasons we have have had different DC's. In general I feel that our defense has improved tremendously over these past 2 seasons.
Don't know for sure, but I would imagine that each of these instances was the first time that these coaches had to face the triple option, or at least of this caliber? It sure feels like we didn't learn anything from last year, but there was some staff turnover there.
As we improve hopefully year over year, I sure hope they figure this out. They are in our conference and there will be no divisions after this season, so we may play them more over the future. We can't give up an automatic win every year just because this is too hard to figure out.
That being said, we did a terrible job against it. Arguably worse than last year, which was also a disaster. If every team played as poorly against them as we did, they would be undefeated and in the top 25.
Every team has to prepare for this, and most other teams have faired much better than we have.
The last 2 seasons we have have had different DC's. In general I feel that our defense has improved tremendously over these past 2 seasons.
Don't know for sure, but I would imagine that each of these instances was the first time that these coaches had to face the triple option, or at least of this caliber? It sure feels like we didn't learn anything from last year, but there was some staff turnover there.
As we improve hopefully year over year, I sure hope they figure this out. They are in our conference and there will be no divisions after this season, so we may play them more over the future. We can't give up an automatic win every year just because this is too hard to figure out.
Did the D staff not, AT THE LEAST, watch the USU-AF game to see what the Aggies defense did? Our guys looked like they had no idea WTF was going on...
