Hope we keep Kruger
- Thread starter colonelreb
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I'm not sure that keeping CKK just to see how his recruits pan out is a good way to look at things. Can we rely on Evans, Cherry, and N'Diaye to come in and contribute a lot? I dont think so. Evans is a good player, but there will be wings that are brought in this offseason. So how exactly is Evans supposed to grow and play a lot if he has 2/3 5th year seniors in the rotation too?
In terms of DJ, he was a great pickup obviously, but I think that some people are treating him like LeBron. He has some flaws like everyone does. Thats natural. But I've seen some people talk about Dedan like hes the greatest PG ever. He is good; he controls the game well, he is a willing passer, can hit some shots, etc. But he is not a great FT shooter, his jumpshot can be improved vastly, and he has made some boneheaded decisions. Thats fine. He's learning. Again, I love DJ and I think hes underrated in the national scheme of things, but for every great pass he makes, he misses a crucial free throw too.
Kalib might be one of the worst players on our team. His lack of awareness yesterday was sad. He knows the double is coming and proceeds to dribble still and then passes only when he has to. I repeat, he passes only when he has to. Even when hes not doubled, he forces himself to make a weak post move and then throws up a prayer. Sometimes it works, most of the time, it doesnt. How is someone as tall as him averaging less than 5 boards?
Another thing about the Boones is that they have no control over their emotions. You'd think that older players know how to reel it in. After every call, you see Webster or DJ or LuRod have to draft them back into the huddle, especially Kalib. They check out mentally, sometimes before the first half is even more when one call goes against them. I dont think either of them are bad players; theyre solid, but they have not performed up to the standard and are not as good as they think.
Next.....Whaley's dad was not happy after the loss. Went on Twitter to tweet about how they needed to get the hot hand (his son) the ball. James Evans has also gotten on Twitter and tweeted after some losses. Not good when you have family and recruits publicly tweeting about your team after a loss.
In terms of DJ, he was a great pickup obviously, but I think that some people are treating him like LeBron. He has some flaws like everyone does. Thats natural. But I've seen some people talk about Dedan like hes the greatest PG ever. He is good; he controls the game well, he is a willing passer, can hit some shots, etc. But he is not a great FT shooter, his jumpshot can be improved vastly, and he has made some boneheaded decisions. Thats fine. He's learning. Again, I love DJ and I think hes underrated in the national scheme of things, but for every great pass he makes, he misses a crucial free throw too.
Kalib might be one of the worst players on our team. His lack of awareness yesterday was sad. He knows the double is coming and proceeds to dribble still and then passes only when he has to. I repeat, he passes only when he has to. Even when hes not doubled, he forces himself to make a weak post move and then throws up a prayer. Sometimes it works, most of the time, it doesnt. How is someone as tall as him averaging less than 5 boards?
Another thing about the Boones is that they have no control over their emotions. You'd think that older players know how to reel it in. After every call, you see Webster or DJ or LuRod have to draft them back into the huddle, especially Kalib. They check out mentally, sometimes before the first half is even more when one call goes against them. I dont think either of them are bad players; theyre solid, but they have not performed up to the standard and are not as good as they think.
Next.....Whaley's dad was not happy after the loss. Went on Twitter to tweet about how they needed to get the hot hand (his son) the ball. James Evans has also gotten on Twitter and tweeted after some losses. Not good when you have family and recruits publicly tweeting about your team after a loss.
Personally, I don't put much stock into parents being annoyed by in game play... Whaley has developed nicely, but his Dad should probably be reminded it's hard to get his son the ball when he's on the bench with his 2nd foul with 10 minutes to go in a half and a 4th with 10 to go in the 2nd... I like Whaleys development and his play, but he over reacts to others getting beat and picks up bad fouls which sends him to bench. He gets confused by the calls which I get, be MWC refs suck too, but it hurts when he has to sit and there's no one to come in for him...
As for Evans, if he thinks his son will be better suited elsewhere, be my guest... I don't want parents dictating to coaches on social media anymore than you or I. Ultimately, if the coach doesn't do his job, he'll reap the reward, and if a kid doesn't want to come to the school, so be it, that's recruiting
As for Evans, if he thinks his son will be better suited elsewhere, be my guest... I don't want parents dictating to coaches on social media anymore than you or I. Ultimately, if the coach doesn't do his job, he'll reap the reward, and if a kid doesn't want to come to the school, so be it, that's recruiting
Im not sure many coaches can survive the UNLV coaching job. We nearly had Mick Cronin, yet his record this year must also indicate he either can’t coach or put a complete roster together. Next coach please….Andy Enfield, USC…next… I’m not saying Kruger is a good coach, I mean history of success for Mick and Andy is proven that they have been elite before. The point I am making is that with today’s roster changing through transfers, I’m not sure if even a good coach wouldn’t have head scratching seasons or even multiple in a row. We can’t rotate coaches every few years if that is the case. At some point you have to ride out a few bad years every now and then. Glad it is not my decision. I’m not quite sure it will get any better. Hope I’m wrong.
I think Bear Cherry will have a similar impact to Rob Whaley. We need a physical presence at center, and he provides that.
I really get a kick out of all these people saying you can’t keep changing coaches every three years. We have to ride out a few bad years etc. WAKE the F up…Krugers HOME record in MWC play is 12 and 12… He is 6-9 at home lately. My god, who wants to ride this out??? Crazy people. … He has a totally EMBARRASSING Home record. We can be soo much better. Give me a run and gun coach… In Tarkanian’s day our crowds were worth five points or more. Now days, our crowds are like our coach……timid and vanilla. Somethings got to change.
So how do schools like Utah St lose coaches every couple of years and still win conference titles? Don't buy that argument that you'll have down years in a league that gets 3 or 4 teams each year into the tournament. We should be a top 4 program every year without excuse and instead we sell ourselves short with that argument or the one of "we won't be able to keep a coach that wins so we might as well not try" one... maybe it's because we've convinced ourselves it's not worth trying, idk, but I do know Beard had he not bolted and TJO probably get the program into that top 3 conversation each year even if they were to leave after a good year. Instead we're now absolutely convinced that we can do no better than Kevin and therefore we might as well not even try because Marvin Menzies couldn't win here...
TJO wasn’t good enough for us. Cronin has a worse record at home than Kruger. I don’t care whether the coach is Kruger or whoever else, I’m just see that changing coaches every three years hasn’t been the answer. That doesn’t mean keeping a bad coach too long is correct either. Personally, I want to see how we finish, but winning the conference tournament and getting a bid to ncaa tournament isn’t the ultimatum this year for me. I am disappointed for sure, but if this roster competes fiercely and loses, then I respect a coach that can keep a teams focus throughout diversity at the least. If the players give up on the coach and he loses his team, then I can see a need for a change sooner rather then later.
Before we disparage Cronin too much for one bad year, look at his years prior at UCLA. We’d crap our pants with those results and he’d certainly have a “free pass” for an off year given those previous results.
He’s had 3 full seasons and this three quarters season in which they are struggling. In those three seasons, he bettered or equaled Kruger Sr’s very best season at UNLV and considering they finished higher in their conference during those two S16 years, you could say his first three (of 4) years at UCLA are better than Lon Kruger’s very best year (of 7) here.
It’s just not the best comparison, imo.
But I can see a flip sides. Changing coaches every three years hasn’t worked. So is the three years too short? Or is it that we made a poor hire and it’s that poor hires don’t work?
The idea that a first time head coach, one with limited assistant coach experience has reached his ceiling before the end of year 3 is ridiculous.
It is possible to turn a program around quickly. It is still the exception vs the rule. It is also illogical to think a first time head coach will be able to do that.
Potential for Kevin as a HC is there. There have been some very good wins along the way. He is still batting .500 against ranked opponents and has a good quad 1 record, better than most of this conference.
The WTF losses stink. Especially the home ones. Part of that is all time low interest where HC advantage really does not exist. Part of that is on him and his performance, a big part of that is our fickle fan base.
Also the past few years the conference has been deeper than ever. The top teams may not be as good as they have in the past, but the top 8 all can beat each other. 6 top 50 net teams. That plays a role. It doesn't explain all of the losses, even the last one since the crowd was decent. But a factor nonetheless.
It is possible to turn a program around quickly. It is still the exception vs the rule. It is also illogical to think a first time head coach will be able to do that.
Potential for Kevin as a HC is there. There have been some very good wins along the way. He is still batting .500 against ranked opponents and has a good quad 1 record, better than most of this conference.
The WTF losses stink. Especially the home ones. Part of that is all time low interest where HC advantage really does not exist. Part of that is on him and his performance, a big part of that is our fickle fan base.
Also the past few years the conference has been deeper than ever. The top teams may not be as good as they have in the past, but the top 8 all can beat each other. 6 top 50 net teams. That plays a role. It doesn't explain all of the losses, even the last one since the crowd was decent. But a factor nonetheless.
The argument can be made whether UNLV should be a training ground for those types of hires. Let’s face it, without the connections, he’s not here right now. We can candy coat it and say he earned his stripes and it was a non-nepotism type of hire … but come on, lying about it is just lame.
That aside, that has no bearing on his ability to get the job actually done. That’s just how he got the job. Clean slate at that point and then your body of work takes the importance rather than the how in getting the job.
I hope they keep him, NLI increases, he makes better (roster construct) decisions in the offseason and he has success next year. I think that’s best case scenario. But it’s a lot of finger crossing, too.
But can certainly grant validity to the thoughts that he shouldn’t be here next season. It’s a case of blinders if people cannot understand that argument.
You're looking at the issue with the wrong pair of glasses... on a pure W/L comparison, he'S doing fine, better than .500 and has a few decent wins sure...
But that doesn't matter because he was hired to continue building the program rebuild he was part of under TJO and we are no closer to the tournament than any of the past 4 seasons he's been a part of the staff... when you look at it through that lens, we're at year 5 of the same mediocre results with the same almost unobtainable goal by February- win 3 or 4 straight in 4 days in March to make a tournament... you can throw out W/L or conference standings year over year but it doesn't matter if we aren't positioned to be an NCAA tournament team. That's the change, that's the reason you make one. And no, a new coach isn't going to fix attendance issues overnight, but other programs within our own conference have churned rosters and coaches and still manage to get to the desired goal, so it's no longer an excuse, it's a crutch..
But that doesn't matter because he was hired to continue building the program rebuild he was part of under TJO and we are no closer to the tournament than any of the past 4 seasons he's been a part of the staff... when you look at it through that lens, we're at year 5 of the same mediocre results with the same almost unobtainable goal by February- win 3 or 4 straight in 4 days in March to make a tournament... you can throw out W/L or conference standings year over year but it doesn't matter if we aren't positioned to be an NCAA tournament team. That's the change, that's the reason you make one. And no, a new coach isn't going to fix attendance issues overnight, but other programs within our own conference have churned rosters and coaches and still manage to get to the desired goal, so it's no longer an excuse, it's a crutch..
One thing to watch out for is any articles about UNLV in the CBI, administration and staff might float that idea.
If I see the LVRJ or Sun publish an article about the CBI, I’m going to take that as a sign that Kruger gets a stay of execution and gets another season to prove himself.
If not, there’s probably going to be some tough conversations to be had. Such as contract talks, I would assume Harper would want to renegotiate the terms of a buyout in exchange for another season. If CKK makes the NIT or NCAAs, an automatic one year extension kicks in.
Honestly that was an awful contract DRF drew up for a totally unproven HC.
If I see the LVRJ or Sun publish an article about the CBI, I’m going to take that as a sign that Kruger gets a stay of execution and gets another season to prove himself.
If not, there’s probably going to be some tough conversations to be had. Such as contract talks, I would assume Harper would want to renegotiate the terms of a buyout in exchange for another season. If CKK makes the NIT or NCAAs, an automatic one year extension kicks in.
Honestly that was an awful contract DRF drew up for a totally unproven HC.
Keep in mind Kruger has the number 1 ranked recruiting class in the Mountain West for next season. After losing a player we didnt know how good we had in Keyshawn Hall its encouraging to see the growth of players like Hicks, Jeter and DT. If Jalen Hill has a 6th year eligible, after his injury, next years squad could be fun to watch.
Making the CBI should be any goal of a program that hasn’t been relevant in the last 10 years
I do not agree with this at all.
He wasn't hired to continue what TJ was doing. He retained little to none of the style of play, had to bring in nearly an entirely new coaching staff. He has brought in a bunch of his own guys from day one, with not many holdovers from the TJ era.
It is year 3 of 3. Overall results not very good. But playing well against the top, and he has a chance to finish pretty high in the final standings Even with WTF losses. In one of the deeper years the conference has had.
Read the quotes by both him and Dez when he was hired...
"He is a Rebel, has helped the program develop a strong foundation..."
"We will get after it and build on the foundation that has been set.. "
Arguing that his staff and style are different doesn't take away from the reason why he was hired. Plain and simple it was to continue what TJO had started with him on staff there. I don't dismiss that as it was the reason he was hired, lazy or not...
Again finishing in conference doesn't matter, I don't care how deep it is unless it's in 1st place. It won't mean anything if he doesn't make the tournament and we won't remember this year anymore than when TJO finished 2nd his first year... and playing well against the top? Were 3-4 vs SDSU, CSU, USU, Boise, UNR, and UNM... Yes, 3 were close losses and one should've been a W, but we're not a good team, we're ok and occasionally play just well enough...
"He is a Rebel, has helped the program develop a strong foundation..."
"We will get after it and build on the foundation that has been set.. "
Arguing that his staff and style are different doesn't take away from the reason why he was hired. Plain and simple it was to continue what TJO had started with him on staff there. I don't dismiss that as it was the reason he was hired, lazy or not...
Again finishing in conference doesn't matter, I don't care how deep it is unless it's in 1st place. It won't mean anything if he doesn't make the tournament and we won't remember this year anymore than when TJO finished 2nd his first year... and playing well against the top? Were 3-4 vs SDSU, CSU, USU, Boise, UNR, and UNM... Yes, 3 were close losses and one should've been a W, but we're not a good team, we're ok and occasionally play just well enough...
IDK, of all the mediocre teams we’ve had over the last decade this one feels like it has the best shot at making a run in the MWCT. Someone has to win 3 or 4 straight. UNLV can play with any of them IF they play for 40 min. A potential to make a run in the MWCT is not a reason to keep a coach. But making a deep run or winning it certainly can be a reason to keep him.
It’s really an interesting case with CKK. I can make arguments on either side. For me the conversation is more than just whether or not we keep him but who would be in line to replace him if fired. Only Harp knows that for sure but if it’s just another mediocre hire, why make the change? This isn’t a Menzies case. It’s a much closer call at this point which shines even more focus on the replacement. Our constant turnover has a toll, with each one our attendance and fan interest seems to decline. Lots to weigh here. Perhaps it will change by end of season and shift one way or the other but as of today I don’t envy Harp having to make this decision (but I do trust him).
It’s really an interesting case with CKK. I can make arguments on either side. For me the conversation is more than just whether or not we keep him but who would be in line to replace him if fired. Only Harp knows that for sure but if it’s just another mediocre hire, why make the change? This isn’t a Menzies case. It’s a much closer call at this point which shines even more focus on the replacement. Our constant turnover has a toll, with each one our attendance and fan interest seems to decline. Lots to weigh here. Perhaps it will change by end of season and shift one way or the other but as of today I don’t envy Harp having to make this decision (but I do trust him).
They had to spin his hiring in as many ways as possible for it to make sense. It is what it is.
He was hired because he was cheap and his last name is Kruger. He wanted the job and will treat it more like a destination other than a stepping stone. If you belief some of the stories, he was brought in as an assistant to take over since it was apparently known TJ was leaving sooner than later.
But it was obvious from game 1 that he wasn't try to continue to short legacy of TJO. From purging several players to style of play to everything. No real carryover.
TJ finished in a 3 way tie for second in a 2 bid year for the conference. One of the more down years of the conference in recent memory.
TJ was 1-3 vs the top 25 in 2 years, Menzies was 1-7 in 3 years.
Kruger is 4-4 in <3 years with more opportunities upcoming.
We are 2.5 games out of first (only down 1 game in the loss column) in one of the stronger leagues of the past several years.
We will see what happens by the end of the year. We have home games against SDSU and CSU. It sucks that we only get Boise and USU once a piece. Because I think we would win the second meeting with both teams. I also think we win at Reno to finish the year. But we have to wait an see on that.
Conference finish doesn't matter? Who are you, Ricky Bobby? It think it is huge, because like it or not, the MW are our peers. Nonconference is all over the place. You can have years like us last year with a bunch of wins against mostly nobodies. ( see UNM the past several years), or years like Kruger year 1 and 3 where there was legit competition. Conference record an standings are the one through line. A good conference finish in one of the deeper conference years is something.
It means nothing. You don't get participation trophies for finishing T-3 in conference if you miss the postseason. Come on...
Who is walking into next year going "yeah, We know it's been 11 years since we danced and 16 since we won a conference tournament title, but did you see we finished 3rd in the conference regular season against 6 other teams who did make the postseason? " ....
Who is walking into next year going "yeah, We know it's been 11 years since we danced and 16 since we won a conference tournament title, but did you see we finished 3rd in the conference regular season against 6 other teams who did make the postseason? " ....
This!
We hire former assistants because they are the cheap option and then the results we get are also cheap.
I agree missing the post season sucks.
But when you have a rookie head coach part of the process is to see if something is there. It isn't fair expecting a finished product at this point, the question should be is there enough there to give him another year. No one is saying we have to extend him, just is there enough to see if has earned to right for year 4 of his school-friendly contract.
Finishing ahead of tournament teams mean something, no? The whole season may be a disappointment, but doing better in conference than teams that are dancing insinuates that we are close to going dancing, even if we didn't qualify this year. Finishing tied for third in a 4-5 team conference is something. It's funny how you mention the 6 teams that didn't go dancing, but not the 5 that did.
MWC plays an imbalanced conference schedule. So finishing ahead of other teams that make the tourney doesn’t mean as much.
There are still games left to play. Win all or most, should be in good shape. Lose more than you should, uh oh.
Good point. But the unbalanced games for us is Boise at home (favorable for us), and USU on the road which I would argue is still at least slight favorable, since the first game was stolen (revenge factor), and we pretty much controlled the whole game until the end.
"Conference finish doesn't matter?"
I think conference finish is the best way to compare coaches over time. Coaches can schedule the OOC games to ensure a bloated win/loss recored but the conference stays very similar over the years.
The goal of Kevin Kruger is to make it as hard as possible for Harper to pull the trigger. I think he is doing a good job at that.
Add to the fact that he lost 3 starters to the draft, a 4th played in the NBA summer league before going to Europe and a very young team this year, Im not sure how Cronin's name even came up in this conversation
Poor roster development…also a good coach should be able to build on prior success…. Just kidding of course, I was trying to use a good coach as an example that there are up and down years among good coaches as well. Cronin was a bad example so I rescind…
To say that we didn’t know how good Keyshawn Hall was gonna be is absolutely ridiculous!
He was the best player on the floor when we played at Utah State last year. He also looked really good, in general, when he was given a chance.
He was the best player on the floor when we played at Utah State last year. He also looked really good, in general, when he was given a chance.
If UNLV is all of a sudden giving legitimate access (not just Grimala and whoever is at the other paper throwing out guesses by quoting "anonymous sources") to the Sun and RJ, then you know he's staying. If Harper gives blanket statements, then CBI isn't going to be tolerated.
Agreed. Usually there is a coordinated effort among all the outlets to slowly pump a pre-programming type of message so people are ok with the idea. Been happening for ages.
If you don’t allow the papers and news media to do your actual thinking for you, you might see things much differently than them.
Saw the crowd was 9150 or so at the Mac vs Reno. Hopefully a start. Was a fun crowd and nice to see lower bowl almost full !
Or if the media members hound the coach about his job security. Usually you need some sort of green light when talking about people’s jobs.
In that scenario there were some veteran coaches rumored to take over Menzies. Menzies didn’t really help his case by going unhinged on the administration (racism claims) and played right into whoever was calling the shots hands.
Goes both ways, Rice won several PR battles during his tenure here vs the administration, you could say embarrassed them by leveraging other jobs and alumni against them. There was obviously some resentment that led to his “resignation”.
That’s the thing though, those guys mentioned actually have tangible evidence of being able to be a good head coach. Cronin is having a tough year but he also has been to a Final Four and a consistent participant in the NCAA. This is an apple to oranges argument. There is absolutely zero substance/ evidence Kevin is or will become a good HC. Not even from an assistant standpoint… A total wildcard and unknown here solely based on his last name. Again everyone wants the former Rebel to succeed, but comparing him to coaches that actually have done something in their career is total nonsense.
