I am 100%. Also, who else is available? Marshall? Wade? After that there is a big drop off. I am not tied to Marshall. But like you, I remember some of Marshall's WSU teams and they had "toughness" as you pointed out.
Harper....The next UNLV head basketball coach
- Thread starter TimothyC3
- Start date
Marshall has baggage but his would be intriguing.
But who knows, maybe Harper has another Odom out of left field type of hire up his sleeve, for hoops!
Nobody’s worried about Harper.
People are just believing there’s millions of dollars just sitting around at unlv and can easily afford Wade’s buyout plus 3-4 million in annual salary. Marshall, same thing.
Have we not learned anything from the Rick Pitino sagas? Not to mention there’s P5 options for these coaches. I can see more than a few openings like Arizona State and that’s a school that Kruger may end up at as a staff member. IMO.
I call this trickle down, college basketball. The more publicly that college players get paid..the less I want to watch.
Putting my economics class that I took to use here. My thoughts are inelastic and it’s not going to change.
You can’t have a name that doesn’t win. You can have a no name that wins. That’s long term stuff.
But if you want early interest, you don’t hire Horton Poser. I don’t even know how the guy is doing, tbh, I’d be surprised if he was anything other than a slow growther type. But I wouldn’t want him here. I’d rather have him than your stamps of approval like Menzies, but still wouldn’t want him here.
I get it, you and maybe a few others here don’t believe there’s money but I believe if there is a move in the works and Harper has it all laid out.
TimothyC3’s original post laid it out here.
You can re-read it if you need clarification.
Rehashing what happened in the past is just that, the past! Your opinion is there’s no money and Kevin may be coming back because of it. I think the opposite!
We will see who’s right in a month, see you then!
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It made me look up Poser. Oklahoma was an NCAAT regular before Poser. Three years of NO NCAAT, an NIT, mediocre record, poor in conference (both deviations from prior years). Maybe he makes it? If so, perhaps it’s an argument for slow growth? But the program has, with great evidence, DROPPED since he took over.
It’s relatively similar to the results we are producing right now.
2 NCAAT’s in his 20 years of head coaching. Sign me up. Career .554 winning percentage. It’s relatively similar to the results we are producing right now. Kevin at .590. And Hoser Morton had 17 years of fluffy league play to really pump that sucker up.
Yeah, yeah, the poster child for slow growth, lol. I’m all in. I can see why you were so high on Poser and Menzies and why I wasn’t. And you can toss Turner into that pile. Same with Pastersack.
KK won’t be back. The media might not be saying it. But he won’t be back.
On the $$$$ issue, if you told me 90 days ago that Odom will leave for Purdue at the end of the season and that UNLV will pay his replacement $3.5 mill it would have tough to believe based on history. But it happened! Also, I do recognize that Vegas is rapidly changing and it appears the Resort Association and Gaming see value in college athletics and more specifically UNLV. I don't think UNLV goes cheap this time and I would think Harper has a lot of good will with the $$$$` people. We shall see.
While a proven big name would be nice, do you all realize many of you dog all kinds of successful people from small stature schools, while forgetting the guy from a smaller stature school that did kinda well? His name was Tark.
You need to pick a winner for a few years who wants a bigger stage.
You need to pick a winner for a few years who wants a bigger stage.
I THINK FANS WILL BE DISAPPOINTED NO MATTER WHAT. check the record of coaches available. NOBODY WINS AT THE LEVEL TARK DID AND NO ONE WILL MEET OUR EXPECTATIONS. K.K. HAD 3 WINNING SEASONS IN A ROW SOMETHING VERY FEW NEW COACHES HAVE HAD. I realize no ncaa tournaments and not suggesting we keep him. And I know Utah st. Has been lucky. But UNLV needs to decide what they want. Most any coach you suggest will have had mediocre seasons. What are your expectations.? And what suggest to you that they can be met? I'M NOT SAYING WE SETTLE BUT THIS IS A BIG DECISION.
That’s a fair question. Expectations translate to quality of a new coach and therefore price. We’re not getting another Tark. He was once in a lifetime, maybe two or three lifetimes (and I feel very fortunate to have lived thru it; it truly was magical.) I don’t expect that.
I haven’t given this question extensive thought but my initial take would be NCAA tourney by year two, win MWC by year 3 or 4, and be a tournament team most years (6-8 out of 10) and be top 3-4 in conf every year (challenging for the title most years). I don’t think any of that is unreasonable. But, it does require a coach with a winning pedigree which means my expectations would likely require a higher priced coach unless Harp hits another jackpot like Odom.
Perhaps this the beginning of media focus on CKK… https://eedition.reviewjournal.com/...f03e47-2193-4561-8531-3f05a9e33de1&share=true
My expectation is San Diego St. level of success and consistency. Compare our facilities to any in the MWC. With the exception of SDSU none approach our media footprint. I imagine our budget is in the top 3 or 4 in the MWC. So why does CSU and Utah St. always seem to have an overachieving top 3 MWC team following a coaching change but we can't sniff a top 1-2 finish in the last decade? There's no excuse. Finishing in the top 3 even in off years is a must. Getting to the NCAA tournament outright(no 3 or 4 win streak mwc tourney bs) every other year on average also more than doable. These teams blow and that we're constantly looking up at them from 5th or 7th place is pathetic.
Why give it to someone nobody else has wanted as a head coach? If we tank it will be another beloved alum that will be hard to fire. He should've been the intern coach but he wasn't because they knew it would be hard to let him go. He hasn't proven to be a hot commodity however he couldn't be any worse than Kruger. He may have got crapped on but I think his time has passed unfortunately.
I think if we're trying to replicate our football hires, we need a former SEC coach.
Will Wade checks all the boxes for me.
Will Wade checks all the boxes for me.
This is the danger of hiring a coach who has a mediocre record for years and then gets hot for a couple of years. He's the new shiny thing. But shiny things can get rusty.
Take Sprinkle. An overnight miracle worker at USU. But before that he was a first year head coach at Montana State. His first two years there were mediocre. But then he latched on to a couple of good recruits who blossomed. Got to the dance his next two years and from that got picked up by USU. Rode Osobor to the top of the conference and now he's the poster boy of what an AD can do if he hires right.
But now, after leaving USU, he's next to last in conference at Washington. The BIG 10 is just different competition and just 5 years ago he was an assistant at Cal State Fullerton.
Bottom line - it's really difficult to hire a coach you can be sure of, even a little. Every few years there is a shiny thing that doesn't rust ( Nate Oats, Otz?) But they area crap shoot. In general, I don't think there are 10 coaches you can hire and be really comfortable they will get us to standard SDSU type performance - year after year. And each of those coaches will require a big buyout plus a big contract. If they suck we are hobbled for years to come.
Look at Pitino to St. Johns. His contract is $ 3.3 mil a year but The previous coach sued for $ 45 million in a contractual dispute based on how he was fired. That suit has been settled, but there isn't any info on how much cash St. Johns had to fork over.
When the time comes I don't envy Harper.
The move “up” in conference can be daunting and usually does not equate to success. And that’s if you are successful in the lower conference. When you are poor to mediocre in that lesser conference and hit some serious paydirt for two years, it becomes risky. I don’t blame him, he struck when the iron was hot and made the most of his career financially. It was a huge risk for OU. They went from success with Lon K to a very mediocre coach with a couple of fluke years. They could have done better. They have resources. They have support. They REALLY rolled the dice on Poser and it hasn’t panned out for them, far below what they had achieved just a couple seasons prior.
Who knows? Maybe he becomes a candidate here? I hope not.
But ironically, it seems like he would thrive at some place like Utah State, seems to fit that mold. But for whatever reason, Utah State doesn’t operate at all like UNLV.
I know Moser isn’t a top choice, but at unlv price point, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s considered. The seeet 16 and final four run still carries weight and it was with a podunk basketball school.
His stint at Oklahoma kind of mirrors his other stints. So it’s a roll of the dice with Moser, imo.
His stint at Oklahoma kind of mirrors his other stints. So it’s a roll of the dice with Moser, imo.
The question is what is the UNLV price point? The price point for UNLV football a few years back under Sanchez was $600K, now they are paying 6X that! My expectation is they are smart enough to know that it wouldn't take a huge increase in attendance to pay for a much better coach!
I don’t know, it just seems like basketball is treated differently now. Maybe that’s the new reality, the reality as you point out that football is getting more investment and more attention. Basketball is just eeking by with small changes and minimal investment.
Let’s not forget that unlv has been helped out with multiple buyouts from schools for coaches and they always turn around and end up with a minimum wage equivalent for a basketball coach, TJO notwithstanding. My expectation is the next coach will make 1 million to 2 million depending on resume.
One thing we can all probably agree on is that the next HC would be loaded with experience and will not require training wheels. One name that Harper may be familiar with is Bruce Weber. Kind of fits the Harper mold, p5 experience and tons of coaching connections.
If we go with someone like Eric Olen, who is busy steamrolling the Big West, I’d hope he hire a coach like Larry Eustachy to be on the staff that knows how to navigate bigger programs and bigger expectations etc.
TLDR: we don’t need to spend a gazillion dollars to have success, just hire competent and experienced people.
Any thoughts on a guy like Tim Miles. I think he made a mistake in going to SJSU. He might be a better fit here. Just throwing that out there if we can't get a guy like Wade. Tim can coach but, with the exception of one season at SJSU when he had a solid player he isn't going to get the players he needs at SJSU. I think he is making less than $1 million. He is competent and experienced.
- Most know of his success at CSU.
- Let go at Nebraska but left as the 3rd winningest coach in their history.
- He isn't going to do much at SJSU as it was the worst choice, imo, of jobs for him to take.
- Most know of his success at CSU.
- Let go at Nebraska but left as the 3rd winningest coach in their history.
- He isn't going to do much at SJSU as it was the worst choice, imo, of jobs for him to take.
How dare he take a team to a final four that has barely any business making it past the first round let alone trying to get in to the dance in a typically one bid league. ! The gall!! That is so easy to do!!
The big 12 was far and above the toughest conference in the country, and the SEC is probably better this year. He is having a pretty good year this year and is on track to making the dance with a NET in the 40's and a Kenpom of 36.
Who gives a rat's ass about "slow growth". If a coach makes your team successful, then he makes them successful.
Firing a coach every 3 years because they haven't made you a national power is also stupid.
If the end result is a successful program, it shouldn't matter that it takes 3 or 4 years to do it.
Is the job better than when he took over? No, it’s much, much lower. Are you saying he’s doing a good job overall at OU? You can’t say that with a straight face.
Look at his entire career. Look at what he’s doing. Aside from a tiny blip which incorporates only 10% of his career; the 90% has been mediocre to poor.
You get wood over the 10%. I put more faith into the 90%.
Slow growth is really dumb. We’ve shown at our own school that doesn’t have to be the case and shouldn’t be the case. Nobody said national power, but relevance should be a reasonable expectation and treading water should never be accepted. Not if you’re serious about sports.
I know you’re high on the guy, I never have been, at all. It’s just a difference of opinion. I’d be “high” on him if he took over at San Jose or Wyoming, but not in a job like OU or, quite frankly, any place that has higher than normal expectations.
Been researching a lot of coaches records, Some schools that fired coaches with K.K. like results got stuck with worse records with the new coach and larger salary. Nebraska after Miles left example. Not sure if Harp let's Kruger go unless he has a well developed plan first. There will be a lot of thought into it.
If we get bounced early in the MWC Tournament then he will have to pack his bags. We can't continue to go on like this.
But wait, wait? I thought that Sprinkle was the shining example that anyone can turnover a program in one year!?
Are you saying that it may have been just a unique situation, that he took advantage of? That he is struggling at UW? Was it fools gold?How is that possible if it is SO easy to find a coach that can immediately get you to the tournament?
Truth is that it tough to make the dance. It is hard to extrapolate too much for a single year, positive or negative.
Moser was a punchline here, but a decent basketball school in the toughest league in the country thought he was worth hiring, and he is keeping pace and looking at a pretty good year this year.
I think a successful coach at a mid major isn't a huge gamble. Especially if they have been consistent over time (like Turner).
Wade has done it pretty well at a P4 and instantly made a lower mid major better, also decently safe.
Not a huge fan of assistants, but that can work out as well, but they should be known for recruiting and being an AHC of sorts, or successful at gameplanning an offense or defense. Not just another dude working for a successful program.
Wade is going to command 3-4 million annnually and that doesn’t even factor his buyout. It’s a pipe dream, and I know someone will respond with Mullen was a pipe dream, and you’d be correct. Still, I don’t see unlv paying 6-7 million in salary to two different coaches. Would love to see it but I’m a realist.
Slow growth isn't dumb if it gets you to where you want to be.
What is dumb is expecting instant gratification and firing anyone who cannot provide that for you.
This year so far is about as good as OU has been in recent years, it isn't over, and they could fall off a cliff, Or they could find themselves back in the top 15 this year. Their schedule is brutal.
Here is the real question. Do you think you know more about hiring a coach then a reputable professional firm of a team of people that do this for a living. Or know better than an AD of a successful program? You that same program, that took our coach that half the fan base wanted to be fired because he "peaked" who then went to a final four?
Speaking of assistants, I would kick the tires on Carlin Hartman. He deserved the job over Kevin the first time, being Lon's second in command at OU. He was his top recruiter and is currently the AHC of the 3rd team in the country at Florida.
But expecting instant gratification or near instant gratification should be the expectation at certain schools. Not at Bethune Cookman or UWGB. we did it with Odom. We did it with Lindy. Our own backyard. And within our limits. Good hires, obviously.
And there’d be far more rope if there is actual GROWTH, not microscopic, debatable growth. There’s a huge gap between instant gratification and the slow growth that you allow. Fisher had a slow growth, but it was absolutely measurable growth. Fans will have patience when it’s not a nanometer per year. They have to see it, they have to feel it. You cannot reasonably expect fans to rally around the same old, same old every year. I don’t know what OU’s Y2Y attendance has been. At UNLV, we see the results of “slow growth” or more aptly, stagnancy.
I’d much, much, much rather UNLV has a “we get it” moment and has a sudden and sustained resurgence under Kevin. Without playing the “maybe, well if this happens…” game, in your gut, do you see KK having this major change/epiphany? I don’t see it. I hope for it, but have seen zero evidence that it’s a possibility. I base that on very bland and rather unimpactful recruiting, a stubbornness to schemes that just aren’t working. That’s what I see when I try to assess it objectively.
I don’t like changing coaches, I can’t stand it, it all feels like setbacks unless you have the cash to hire a difference maker. I’d much rather it be KK who succeeds from here on out. I just have incredibly low confidence in that based on the results we’ve seen. Losing Odom sucked, but I’d much rather lose a coach because of success instead of failure.
Because of our history, our draw, the city, perceptions, etc, etc, etc - UNLV is one of those schools that can be bludgeoned to death by low expectations, patience, slow growth. Kevin has had four years so far - that’s patience, imo. 1 NIT in four years doesn’t get it, neither does two. Seems Poser is on a similar path in a similar situation (but they have much better resources/$$$ that UNLV, so they shouldn’t have stepped into the mistake in the first place, imo).
If it doesn’t work out, we will see if we get a good hire here. If it doesn’t work out for OU, my guess is they will stray from their last formula and take a far less risky hire. And if it doesn’t work out at OU, without knowing any OU fans but understating their history, I have a feeling a large percentage of their fanbase will call it their “worst hire ever”. Without looking at their message boards, I have confidence that fans are not very happy with the current state. You cannot change the mindset of a fanbase, you have to satisfy them. If you don’t, sure, you’ll lose them and you’ll grow a smaller, new fan base that has lessened expectations (that’s where we are now). It’s not good for the program.
And if it still sucks for UNLV, there’s always football.
So if UNLV goes on a run and makes it to the MWC championship game, are we to pray the Rebels lose so we don't go to the NCAA tournament and possible keep Kruger?
I’m not the type that can root for a loss just to get rid of a coach, even if I think that coach isn’t the answer. Would feel like self betrayal to me. I know most fans do and to each their own, I’m not going to try and talk them into my point of view and not going to belittle them for their own point of view. To each their own.
