This is true, but now apply it to the MWC.
The teams they took have won every conference title since 2016 except the Covid year of 2020. (SJSU). Boise, Fresno, USU and SDSU.
Last edited:
CSU/USU suing MW over exit fees
- Thread starter rebeltob
- Start date
This is true, but now apply it to the MWC.
The teams they took have won every conference title since 2016 except the Covid year of 2020. (SJSU). Boise, Fresno, USU and SDSU.
PACs idea of poaching the best MWC teams was the right approach (create the strongest G5 possible) but the execution was piss poor, allowing ego to dictate decisions. They should have made a sweetheart deal for UNLV and SJSU as well, and also allow for free or low-cost exit fees if invited to a P4. Every G5 school goal is to get a P4 invite and making it easy to make the leap only incentivizes the schools to invest more in their programs. Then as you said also go after the top AAC schools and any potential additions from an ACC breakup. You’d then have a very competitive conference potentially challenging B12 status. Instead their egos ruled the day and now they’re chasing small market teams that will only dilute their status. MWC is in that same boat but the difference is the PAC put themselves in that situation. Idiots.
The Pac leadership (and WSU/OSU) doesn't look at themselves as a G5 and there in lies their problem...
In terms of media fat, They left SJSU, UNM, Reno. Wyoming probably isn't great in terms of media, Hawaii is so so. Utah State is probably middle of the pack in terms of media in thencireent MW. Maybe bottom third. So yes if Utah State is their worst, we have 4-5 teams lower than their worst. They may add a team worst than our worst, but even if they do they are doing better. Especially given that they took 4 of our best 6. Utah is third tier in that state, but they have done decent well in the past in terms of attendance of that is any indication. Certainly better than Reno, SJSU, and UNM in football.
I think that teams keep half of the tournament credits and bowl revenue in the new PAC. That helps the bottom line. Gonzaga can still contribute to the conference considering their pedigree. Maybe not earn the rest of their share but definitely.
Not sure why you think CSU is at the bottom. They have done well in media and attendance.
I don't think that truly what they think. They are trying to sell the idea hard that they are P5 worthy, but there is no way think they will be AQ status. Noone is really buying it.
If we look back 3 years from now and 1. we are in a sub-par MWC and 2. the PAC is the top G5 conference and 3. the P4 are similar to where they are now we will be very sorry we weren't included in the new PAC. But if we are in a re-structure B 12 and it is still considered a power conference we 'll be deliriously happy looking at Harper as a genius. IMO, the entire gambit will depend on our getting in a P4 conference or not.
3 years isn't enough time. Big 12 probably isn't adding teams before 2030. Invite might be on table but we won't be playing in it yet in 3 years. I think the better argument will be is in 3 yrs, are we dominating the conference in multiple sports winning titles, and B is Boise being challenged by anyone in the new Pac.. if the first is yes and second no, then we made a better decision. If the answer for both is no or no, yes, then we didn't. The whole point is we need our premier programs to dominate regularly in the new conference.
They've already said, b12, they won't be adding more schools until their next media contract in 6 years. The only way we can make it happen is to get an invite for zero to 1/4 media revenue. Otherwise, what does it give them to add us before that next media deal as it just dilutes the revenue from existing schools. Our men's basketball is just for giggles so there is no incentive there.
You 100% take a reduced share if given the chance.
After a conversation with @Bullmastiff 1, I took the time to make a spread sheet based on total wins. Now, we know total wins is not the only metric that they are using. They're going off of potential value (witch craft magic), market area, viewership, and current market value. This is not including the covid year. But, here are the last three years of wins. Happy to include 2024 on request.
Any one notice the win total fraud amongst the pac group? If I were Air Force or Wyoming, I'd be really mad. Lets put it this way. In that same span of time, UTEP had more wins than CSU.
I do have the totals going back to 2018 ready (minus covid). I didn't include 2024, because that was an unknown when they started talking this last July.
| Year | 2021 | 2022 | 2023 | ||
| Total wins | |||||
| Air Force | 10–3 (6–2 MW) | 10–3 (5–3 MW) | 9–4 (5–3 MW) | 29 | |
| Wyoming | 7–6 (2–6 MW) | 7–6 (5–3 MW) | 9–4 (5–3 MW) | 23 | |
| San Jose State | 5–7 (3–5 MW) | 7–5 (5–3 MW) | 7–6 (6–2 MW) | 19 | |
| UNLV | 2–10 (2–6 MW) | 5–7 (3–5 MW) | 9–5 (6–2 MW) | 16 | |
| Hawai'i | 6–7 (3–5 MW) | 3–10 (2–6 MW) | 5–8 (3–5 MW) | 14 | |
| reno | 8–5 (5–3 MW) | 2–10 (0–8 MW) | 2–10 (2–6 MW) | 12 | |
| New Mexico | 3–9 (1–7 MW) | 2–10 (0–8 MW) | 4–8 (2–6 MW) | 9 | |
| MW Total | 122 | ||||
| Fresno State | 10–3 (6–2 MW) | #24 10–4 (7–1 MW) | 9–4 (4–4 MW) | 29 | |
| Boise State | 7–5 (5–3 MW) | 10–4 (8–0 MW) | 8–6 (6–2 MW) | 25 | |
| Utah State | #24 11–3 (6–2 MW) | 6–7 (5–3 MW) | 6–7 (4–4 MW) | 23 | |
| San Diego State | #25 12–2 (7–1 MW) | 7–6 (5–3 MW) | 4–8 (2–6 MW) | 23 | |
| Colorado State | 3–9 (2–6 MW) | 3–9 (3–5 MW) | 5–7 (3–5 MW) | 11 | |
| Pac total | 111 |
Any one notice the win total fraud amongst the pac group? If I were Air Force or Wyoming, I'd be really mad. Lets put it this way. In that same span of time, UTEP had more wins than CSU.
I do have the totals going back to 2018 ready (minus covid). I didn't include 2024, because that was an unknown when they started talking this last July.
Last edited:
Just get a deal with Netflix..
It was glorious watching Beyoncé halftime show..
UNLV is not forward thinking at all.
I started thinking on this. If I were, let's say Memphis and Tulane. If trying to make the Playoff is a consideration, that means they have to play and beat BSU. My Cougs could also be in the mix. Do they really want that? So it comes down to the illusive Pac-X media contract vs exit fees, travel, etc.
And UNLV folks, I hadn't realized that our Kyle Williams came from UNLV. Thanks - hope he catches 3 TD's tomorrow.
I understand the media contract timing and I hear what the Big 12 has said. But it looks to me that starting in the 4th year we will most likely look back and think being in the "MWC light" was a bad move. And each year it goes on will make it worse. Our home schedule will suck ( and we will play our OOC P4 games away with only a very occasional exceptions) , we'll lose out on CFP probabilities to a PAC with a similar OOC schedule because their conference schedule will be much more compelling, we'll bring in considerably less media $$ (undetermined based on future contracts and legal issues) and each year we'll look less and less desirable compared to our PAC competitors.
Wait - all along I have thought that Scrub was heralded as the voice of knowledge and reason on this site.
Wait - all along I have thought that Scrub was heralded as the voice of knowledge and reason on this site.
I assure you..He is not.
Wait - all along I have thought that Scrub was heralded as the voice of knowledge and reason on this site.
He lost me at that part about "reason". Getting thrown out of a Volleyball game for twerking on fans or players or whatever the hell he was doing would disqualify you from having any "reason". 🤣
Hate to break it, but we're a G5 and most our OOC games will be road games against P4 competition. UCLA is kind of a standalone in that they needed opponents and we got a home and home scheduled a while ago when we weren't good. We aren't going to bring in good OOC teams because those teams don't travel for away games.
If you ask any Syracuse fan today, they would love a home-home with UNLV. Perspectives are changing with UNLV as a football school. Man, that hurts as I typed it.
I am the all knowing seeing eye of the internet.Wait - all along I have thought that Scrub was heralded as the voice of knowledge and reason on this site.
Christmas football game was streamed for the first time on Netflix. It was subtitled, and Beyoncé was schilling her album from last year singing Dolly pardon’s Jolene.
And I hate Beyoncé. That bitch shares the same birthday with me
Of the first 6, I ranked CSU lowest, but maybe it’s Fresno State? No real point was being made there other than saying that the overall balance was fairly equal with Boise being on top and CSU or Fresno being at the bottom of that group.
If you look at attendance numbers over the last couple years… SDSU, USU, SJSU, UNM, and UNR have all averaged 16,000-18,300 per home game. Hawaii is the bottom outlier at about 13,000.
Of that group I’d toss out SDSU as being a “bottom feeder” because their market IS better and their “brand” is “ok”.
The others all feel about the same to me and any single one of them COULD have a good season and boost those numbers. So if you’re gonna call UNM, SJSU, and UNR “fat”, you gotta include USU as “fat” as well.
I’m not including Hawaii on that list because they were only a partial member and were being paid as such.
So USU is “fat” even though they could have a good season, just like the others, and you have to add another team in ALL sports, who is gonna be PURE FAT.
That makes 25% of your teams “fat”, that you were, oh by the way, trying to shed. I think Gonzaga at a full share is actually a drag on overall revenue, but that’s harder to quantify, so illyleave them out of the equation.
Saying they took our four best markets/teams (of which UNLV would actually be one) is irrelevant to my point. I’m not arguing the PAC isn’t better, I’m arguing they’re worse off than what they would be had a merger taken place.
In a new MW/PAC with 14 teams you’d have those same 4 as “fat”, which is about 28%. I think WYO is kind of neutral and Hawaii is also kind of neutral because their market is decent and they’re only getting a partial share. But if you include those two and say the new conference has 6 “fat” teams you’re up to 42% vs 25% fat.
Admittedly 17% is a pretty decent difference… it’s the difference between $5 mil per year and $5.85 mil per year.
But now look at the cost…
The final cost remains to be seen, but it’s going to be a decent amount, even after things likely get negotiated down. Even if it gets negotiated down to a third it takes 7 years to overcome the difference. And that doesn’t include any poaching fees that are ultimately paid by the PAC 2.
Now look at a comparison of what the new PAC would look like versus a new PAC/MW conference. That conference would be far and away the best G5 conference and I would think more valuable on a per team basis.
Add to that the fact that you could have structured the payouts of that new conference as such to reward the better teams, which would easily overcome any difference in who is “fat” and who is not.
Again, it’s neither here nor there at this point, and there’s a lot still to play out. But it definitely feels like a “cut off your nose to spite your face” situation to me.
SJSU's attendance numbers are puzzling. Its true that they averaged 16,058 for home games this season. But just two years ago they were at 23,970. By comparison SDSU was at 24,770 for this season, but just 2 years ago they were at 29,892.
BUT despite what both schools have averaged this season, the 5 year averages point to SJSU adding 2.51% to their average attendance, which is almost similar to the percentage of people that SDSU lost (-2.28%).
It might have to do with the exodus of people who are being priced out of California. Except Fresno's numbers have only gone up. Their attendance is up 15.69% over the last 5 years.
BUT despite what both schools have averaged this season, the 5 year averages point to SJSU adding 2.51% to their average attendance, which is almost similar to the percentage of people that SDSU lost (-2.28%).
It might have to do with the exodus of people who are being priced out of California. Except Fresno's numbers have only gone up. Their attendance is up 15.69% over the last 5 years.
The teams leaving for the PAC have won every single conference title since 2012 except the Covid year with SJSU. Every single one.
