Assuming Hawaii gets done..Then what?

[Bullmastiff 1]

Getting Hawaii done is paramount obviously but after that then what.

Saw adding Hawaii as full member could keep MWC media deal around 5-6 million. Amazing what the degenerate gambler demographic adds to your media market value.

CUSA teams seem the most likely potential additions but not sure how much any would add to a media package. There are some interesting Sun Belt teams but honestly unless you could add a minimum of at least 4 'Eastern' schools not sure it makes much sense for any to join financially without travel partners.

NMSU seems a natural fit but being only 100k population in Las Cruces and only 50 miles from El Paso they probably don't add much for a media deal. UTEP despite their struggles was the better choice based purely off their population vs NMSU.

Sam Houston State gets you a second team in Texas and they are playing decent football.

La Tech probably a no.

Western Kentucky would be a good get and increase conference footprint but would need travel partners.

There just aren't many West options really.

Not sure even as football only Toledo and NIU make a lot of sense. Feels like you would need a few more 'Eastern' teams as travel partners for it to make sense.

8 with Hawaii full member gets MWC to the magic number but means teams are going to need 5 OOC games which isn't ideal.

 

[oneepstein]

Without knowing enough about the impact of only having X number of conference games, I’d say stand pat for the time being. Establish your media rights deal to see where you’re at and then consider future adds and maybe add them at lower tiers depending on what they bring to the table.

I wonder if it would be possible to do a pseudo playoffs in conference. Seed the top 4 in one group and the bottom 4 in the other and have those groups play out a semifinal and “championship” game. I don’t know… just a thought.

 

[WarthogRebel]

No matter what we do it's a downer. There inevitably will come a time when we aren't in contention for anything. A few years of a bad run, lose a coach etc. An 0-4 Rebels against a 1-3 Sam Houston State would generate around 10,000 fans in Allegiant. An awful experience. I think the only way to avoid a complete season of this would be to have 5 OOC games with two or three of them at Allegiant. And the games would need to be NAME P4 teams.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Slim pickings after 8 for sure. Almost anybody we add from here on out is just taking money out of our pockets. And, the one or two that are interested in moving up like Sacramento State are holding out for a Pac12 invite.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Getting Hawaii done is paramount obviously but after that then what.

Saw adding Hawaii as full member could keep MWC media deal around 5-6 million. Amazing what the degenerate gambler demographic adds to your media market value.

CUSA teams seem the most likely potential additions but not sure how much any would add to a media package. There are some interesting Sun Belt teams but honestly unless you could add a minimum of at least 4 'Eastern' schools not sure it makes much sense for any to join financially without travel partners.

NMSU seems a natural fit but being only 100k population in Las Cruces and only 50 miles from El Paso they probably don't add much for a media deal. UTEP despite their struggles was the better choice based purely off their population vs NMSU.

Sam Houston State gets you a second team in Texas and they are playing decent football.

La Tech probably a no.

Western Kentucky would be a good get and increase conference footprint but would need travel partners.

There just aren't many West options really.

Not sure even as football only Toledo and NIU make a lot of sense. Feels like you would need a few more 'Eastern' teams as travel partners for it to make sense.

8 with Hawaii full member gets MWC to the magic number but means teams are going to need 5 OOC games which isn't ideal.

It bothers me that we are waiting so long on Hawaii. It's like waiting on an athlete only to find out they flipped their commitment to the Pac12. I'm sure Gloria is busy with the Pac12 Poaching Fee lawsuit but she needs to multitask.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Were waiting because there is a lot of logistical problems to work through. Football travel, the fact that they dont have a permanent football stadium, basketball travel, and then all the other sports... Its not as easy as just flipping a switch to call them full members.

 

[InZoneU]

Slim pickings after 8 for sure. Almost anybody we add from here on out is just taking money out of our pockets. And, the one or two that are interested in moving up like Sacramento State are holding out for a Pac12 invite.

Montana or Dakota schools to fill it out would be ideal. They have really solid programs that have shown they can more than compete at FBS level. NMSU would be a huge mistake.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Getting Hawaii done is paramount obviously but after that then what.

Saw adding Hawaii as full member could keep MWC media deal around 5-6 million. Amazing what the degenerate gambler demographic adds to your media market value.

CUSA teams seem the most likely potential additions but not sure how much any would add to a media package. There are some interesting Sun Belt teams but honestly unless you could add a minimum of at least 4 'Eastern' schools not sure it makes much sense for any to join financially without travel partners.

NMSU seems a natural fit but being only 100k population in Las Cruces and only 50 miles from El Paso they probably don't add much for a media deal. UTEP despite their struggles was the better choice based purely off their population vs NMSU.

Sam Houston State gets you a second team in Texas and they are playing decent football.

La Tech probably a no.

Western Kentucky would be a good get and increase conference footprint but would need travel partners.

There just aren't many West options really.

Not sure even as football only Toledo and NIU make a lot of sense. Feels like you would need a few more 'Eastern' teams as travel partners for it to make sense.

8 with Hawaii full member gets MWC to the magic number but means teams are going to need 5 OOC games which isn't ideal.

The Pac-soon-to-be-8 will need OOC games..........

Can't remember if I threw out this insane idea before or not. stay at 8 or 9 member. Play everyone in conference, then have a Pac-X-MW championship game. Winner of which should be a playoff shoo-in.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Only if they play it in Laramie or ABQ every year.... since you all didnt want to travel to these lowly locations

 

[Poster17]

After the addition of Hawaii as a full member the MWC should sit at 8. Just like the OG MWC. It's a good group that all fit the together very well and have a ton of history together. No need to dilute the conference. No one is coming in which will move the needle in terms of TV dollars, so don't add just to add. This is all temporary any way till the next realignment in 5-8 years.

UNLV
Air Force
New Mexico
UNR
Wyoming
UTEP
SJSU
Hawaii

That's not a bad conference for now. It's one UNLV should be able to compete year in year out for titles in most sports.

 

[saulpaul21]

Montana or Dakota schools to fill it out would be ideal. They have really solid programs that have shown they can more than compete at FBS level. NMSU would be a huge mistake.

Even though I am from North Dakota, this would be stealing money from the other MWC members. Yes, they would be solid teams competition wise.

 

[reagan21]

Once Memphis moves to the Pac7.75 we should try and grab AAC schools.

 

[dcut03]

Yes 100% stand pat. Only add teams that help the bottom line.

As for getting 6mil with this 8? I am very skeptical at that. If we are getting 6 the pac is getting 10-12 easy. I doubt that Inflation fully makes up the difference of losing our top 4 markets and a middle tier market.

I think the payouts are "guaranteed" but I think they will have use some of that leftover fee money. Which if they do that our extra money that we get will take a hit (the 10-14, then 1.5-1.8)

If the AAC blows up so bad that more teams will be able to leave with final penalty we shoot for utsa, Rice, and UNT in that order foe expansion. Those are probably the only school that came potentially improve our bottom line.

Not sac state, not Sam, not even Texas State.

 

[Rebel1986]

Getting Hawaii done is paramount obviously but after that then what.

Saw adding Hawaii as full member could keep MWC media deal around 5-6 million. Amazing what the degenerate gambler demographic adds to your media market value.

CUSA teams seem the most likely potential additions but not sure how much any would add to a media package. There are some interesting Sun Belt teams but honestly unless you could add a minimum of at least 4 'Eastern' schools not sure it makes much sense for any to join financially without travel partners.

NMSU seems a natural fit but being only 100k population in Las Cruces and only 50 miles from El Paso they probably don't add much for a media deal. UTEP despite their struggles was the better choice based purely off their population vs NMSU.

Sam Houston State gets you a second team in Texas and they are playing decent football.

La Tech probably a no.

Western Kentucky would be a good get and increase conference footprint but would need travel partners.

There just aren't many West options really.

Not sure even as football only Toledo and NIU make a lot of sense. Feels like you would need a few more 'Eastern' teams as travel partners for it to make sense.

8 with Hawaii full member gets MWC to the magic number but means teams are going to need 5 OOC games which isn't ideal.

Grand Canyon is the best option out west. They do not have a football program, but they would meet the 8 team requirement as long as we can find a football only school. Grand Canyon has far more upside than any school out west including Boise State. While they do not currently have football, the school has a total enrollment of 120K (25K on campus the rest internet courses), they have a boat load of money as a private school, and their basketball program was a top 25 program last year. I could see them adding football within a few years.

 

[reagan21]

I'd take Grand Canyon as a bball only member.

 

[dcut03]

I am all for reaching out to St. Marys and GCU for bball only.

 

[Masked_rebel]

I'd take Grand Canyon as a bball only member.

Why. Again, another unnecessary move in the realignment. How do you split money? The TV dollars are coming for football, neither of those 2 brands bring any real TV $. St Marys and GCU dont bring anything other than a cool name on the schedule.

 

[Rosegreen1]

Kick the tires on Texas State again, look into Wichita State for basketball only.

 

[Rebel1986]

I'd take Grand Canyon as a bball only member.

Located in the large market of Phoenix and have a huge alumni base of around 200K. The school would get no benefit from coming to the MWC as basketball only, but would help the MWC in regards to meeting the 8 NCAA qualified schools requirement and would be a major boost in basketball (NCAA tournament 2024), baseball (NCAA tournament 2024), almost every program they have has been top in their current conference, and they recently joined the WAC, which they are so far dominating. It is a great chance to grab a school with a huge upside in a large market instead of looking for bottom feeder programs in small markets. By far the largest Christian school in the country.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Located in the large market of Phoenix and have a huge alumni base of around 200K. The school would get no benefit from coming to the MWC as basketball only, but would help the MWC in regards to meeting the 8 NCAA qualified schools requirement and would be a major boost in basketball (NCAA tournament 2024), baseball (NCAA tournament 2024), almost every program they have has been top in their current conference, and they recently joined the WAC, which they are so far dominating. It is a great chance to grab a school with a huge upside in a large market instead of looking for bottom feeder programs in small markets. By far the largest Christian school in the country.

Doesn't MWC need 8 football members? Or are you saying assuming Hawaii gets done then go add GCU for basketball?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Would this work.

UNLV
UTEP
RENO
WYO
HAWAII
AFA
UNM
SJSU

ADD
WKU
LIBERTY
SAM HOUSTON

Plus
NIU (Football only)

If NIU is a no circle back to Texas State full member.

I see no reason to add NMSU other than region/convenience. UTEP is basically the same market.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I know a few short years ago this would bring blasphemous but conference strength and media footprint trumps anything with basketball. I'm cool if MWC is in talks with the likes of GCU buy I'd much rather get football media package done first.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

The Pac-soon-to-be-8 will need OOC games..........

Can't remember if I threw out this insane idea before or not. stay at 8 or 9 member. Play everyone in conference, then have a Pac-X-MW championship game. Winner of which should be a playoff shoo-in.

Great! Another scheduling agreement. Are you crazy.

 

[dcut03]

Why. Again, another unnecessary move in the realignment. How do you split money? The TV dollars are coming for football, neither of those 2 brands bring any real TV $. St Marys and GCU dont bring anything other than a cool name on the schedule.

We aren't giving them a sweetheart deal like Gonzaga. But i'm sure their tv deal is going to suffer without the Zags.

Not GCU and St. Mary's(especislly the latter) have been good in basketball. We need more basketball members to help fill out the conference slate. 14 games won't cut it.

They raise the conference profile, both have the capability of making the dance. That equals credits.

It makes sense for them. More money even with a cut share, and a much better top to bottom conference for them. Especially with the Zags leaving.

 

[unlove]

I’m hearing Hawaii wants to be in the MWC and it’s just a matter of getting the details down. I suspect that’s occurring as we discuss it.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

We aren't giving them a sweetheart deal like Gonzaga. But i'm sure their tv deal is going to suffer without the Zags.

Not GCU and St. Mary's(especislly the latter) have been good in basketball. We need more basketball members to help fill out the conference slate. 14 games won't cut it.

They raise the conference profile, both have the capability of making the dance. That equals credits.

It makes sense for them. More money even with a cut share, and a much better top to bottom conference for them. Especially with the Zags leaving.

I agree but you gotta get football done first right?

I'm not sure 8 is enough especially the 8 remaining for football. (If we're talking conference profile).

I think UTEP based on its size made sense, but their history in football is on par with ours...(I think there is some potential there but....Results have not been great.

 

[dcut03]

I don't see wha

I agree but you gotta get football done first right?

I'm not sure 8 is enough especially the 8 remaining for football. (If we're talking conference profile).

I think UTEP based on its size made sense, but their history in football is on par with ours...(I think there is some potential there but....Results have not been great.

I don't see why you need more.

It isn't a requirement for a championship game. It leaves room in case other blow ups occur where you can potentially add more profitable schools.

Let me ask you this, do you think that the PAC is looking to add NMSU , SHSU, or Tarleton St? It looks like they held back at Texas State.

Keep it lean and keep the per team money up. I think that the MW have already overpromised payouts next contract. We can afford to add teams that do not help the bottom line. I think they will already dip into our promised bonus money to just to keep teams afloat.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I don't see wha

I don't see why you need more.

It isn't a requirement for a championship game. It leaves room in case other blow ups occur where you can potentially add more profitable schools.

Let me ask you this, do you think that the PAC is looking to add NMSU , SHSU, or Tarleton St? It looks like they held back at Texas State.

Keep it lean and keep the per team money up. I think that the MW have already overpromised payouts next contract. We can afford to add teams that do not help the bottom line. I think they will already dip into our promised bonus money to just to keep teams afloat.

Then why expand in basketball? Scheduling?

I do think Gloria has to look long term in football as well or potentially end up in a similar situation. I'm not sure UNLV to the BIG12 is realistic, but they gave themselves an out when they re-upped with the MWC. If UNLV were to leave in 3-5 years then she'd be back to scrounging again. Plus I imagine if UNLV were to leave AFA would consider bouncing to AAC.

I understand the idea of keeping it lean but good lord that conference looks rough on paper.

I mean think about it. Our lone addition is arguably the worst team from CUSA...

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I don't see wha

I don't see why you need more.

It isn't a requirement for a championship game. It leaves room in case other blow ups occur where you can potentially add more profitable schools.

Let me ask you this, do you think that the PAC is looking to add NMSU , SHSU, or Tarleton St? It looks like they held back at Texas State.

Keep it lean and keep the per team money up. I think that the MW have already overpromised payouts next contract. We can afford to add teams that do not help the bottom line. I think they will already dip into our promised bonus money to just to keep teams afloat.

I don't think the PAC wants anything to do with NMSU. And probably not SHU either. They held off on Texas State and I believe that was because they realized they were not going to reach those early media rights number projections we saw.

Early on we saw between 10-15 million per school.

I think that 15 million was with Memphis, Tulane, UTSA and possibly USF.

That 10 million was with possibly of some combination of Memphis, Tulane and UNLV/USU.

When none of that happened a little panic set in.

To get Memphis that media deal has to eclipse 9 million to just break even for Memphis. Plus Memphis' buyout is around over 20 million. PAC offered to pay 2.5 of that. No idea where travel costs would be for Memphis but have to imagine they would increase significantly.

I doubt this would happen, but PAC could circle back to UNLV again. I doubt it, I think that ship has sailed but it wouldn't surprise me.

Not to mention PAC is now giving Gonzaga a full share despite no football. That's a big chunk eliminated.

 

[Rebel1986]

Doesn't MWC need 8 football members? Or are you saying assuming Hawaii gets done then go add GCU for basketball?

Still need one more football team, but this would allow for the option of a football only school, and would also bring in a new market with a school that has a basketball program and baseball program that would have been the best in the MWC this last season. Ask SDSU how they did against Grand Canyon. If a program like NIU comes in for football only, this would help meet the NCAA requirement as well as improving the strength of other programs within the MWC including women's basketball.

 

[LVRebel2000]

I don't think the PAC wants anything to do with NMSU. And probably not SHU either. They held off on Texas State and I believe that was because they realized they were not going to reach those early media rights number projections we saw.

Early on we saw between 10-15 million per school.

I think that 15 million was with Memphis, Tulane, UTSA and possibly USF.

That 10 million was with possibly of some combination of Memphis, Tulane and UNLV/USU.

When none of that happened a little panic set in.

To get Memphis that media deal has to eclipse 9 million to just break even for Memphis. Plus Memphis' buyout is around over 20 million. PAC offered to pay 2.5 of that. No idea where travel costs would be for Memphis but have to imagine they would increase significantly.

I doubt this would happen, but PAC could circle back to UNLV again. I doubt it, I think that ship has sailed but it wouldn't surprise me.

Not to mention PAC is now giving Gonzaga a full share despite no football. That's a big chunk eliminated.

I agree that the ship has sailed for the PAC to get UNLV at this time. I mean, they could make it worth it for us, but I don't think the other teams in the league would likely go for that. I still haven't seen what the PAC offered the other MWC teams as help with the buyout, but on the Wazzu message board, they still claim that it was very low, or nothing at all for SDSU/BSU/etc. And Utah State got 0 apparently. So I don't see those schools joining together and saying lets give UNLV 20 million to leave.

 

[1Tripoda]

Things will move really fast once this "quietness" period end. Something is brewing. What BSU and the traitors did with OSU and WSU is unforgivable. Whatever the MWC moves are next might end something or another. Just my opinion.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I agree that the ship has sailed for the PAC to get UNLV at this time. I mean, they could make it worth it for us, but I don't think the other teams in the league would likely go for that. I still haven't seen what the PAC offered the other MWC teams as help with the buyout, but on the Wazzu message board, they still claim that it was very low, or nothing at all for SDSU/BSU/etc. And Utah State got 0 apparently. So I don't see those schools joining together and saying lets give UNLV 20 million to leave.

From what I understand USU had a donor step up to cover a part or all of the exit fee.

 

[dcut03]

Then why expand in basketball? Scheduling?

I do think Gloria has to look long term in football as well or potentially end up in a similar situation. I'm not sure UNLV to the BIG12 is realistic, but they gave themselves an out when they re-upped with the MWC. If UNLV were to leave in 3-5 years then she'd be back to scrounging again. Plus I imagine if UNLV were to leave AFA would consider bouncing to AAC.

I understand the idea of keeping it lean but good lord that conference looks rough on paper.

I mean think about it. Our lone addition is arguably the worst team from CUSA...

You can get away with a 7 game conference slate in football. Adding one more noncon football game is pretty easy to do. Trying to add more basketball games in conference season will be tough. It will likely be quad 4 exclusively. Either that or make the non con very rough without much rest. We struggle enough to get decent games during the rodeo.

I get having to protect the conference for the future. But we are in a bit of a financial crises now. Add teams when it is required and not before. Unless you can get a school that is at least as good as the mean MW team. But even that, it needs to be as good as the mean CURRENT MW team. Which basically means Utah State.

Sure reach out to Liberty and WKU and see if they bite. But Liberty trying to travel to 4+ MW teams a year from Virginia is very rough, probably not worth it for them. Kentucky isn't that much better.

 

[Masked_rebel]

There isnt a perfect solution and thats what the Pac 12 are finding out as well. They all chose to cripple themselves potentially vs conference opponents by the terms they signed on for, with unbalanced payouts for CFP and NCAA credits. Their banking on a trade off that the teams included in the deal will help drive up the media market price, but they failed to factor in that just about every team not named Boise they added are awful this year when they need to be out negotiating the TV deals. They had to give away the equal tournament credit distribution to attract Gonzaga and SDSU. Now they are finding out same as us, that there arent a lot of valuable dance partners across the G5 landscape and the ones who are, are locked into their current spots and arent willfully budging. Were lucky in that we only needed 2 new partners to legitimize our conference in the NCAA eyes and from a dollars and value perspective, it was easy to add UTEP and potentially make Hawaii a full sport partner. That doesn't necessarily cripple the MWC, while it wont be the standalone top tier as it currently really is across both football and basketball, its still a potentially top tier G5.
Meanwhile the Pac 12 needs to add 1 team, but theyve already compromised their original values to create the top tiered conference, the product they brought is woefully underwhelming this year, and they couldnt secure the bigger fishes they wanted and now that the contract terms are public, theyre probably going to have a harder time attracting filler tier programs. It sucks that instead of being the best conference far and above, they thought they could cut the dead weight, give themselves competitive advantages financially, and everyone would just play ball and join in...

 

[1Tripoda]

You can get away with a 7 game conference slate in football. Adding one more noncon football game is pretty easy to do. Trying to add more basketball games in conference season will be tough. It will likely be quad 4 exclusively. Either that or make the non con very rough without much rest. We struggle enough to get decent games during the rodeo.

I get having to protect the conference for the future. But we are in a bit of a financial crises now. Add teams when it is required and not before. Unless you can get a school that is at least as good as the mean MW team. But even that, it needs to be as good as the mean CURRENT MW team. Which basically means Utah State.

Sure reach out to Liberty and WKU and see if they bite. But Liberty trying to travel to 4+ MW teams a year from Virginia is very rough, probably not worth it for them. Kentucky isn't that much better.

Do you really think Liberty wants to play a team like UNLV right now? Especially if the game is at Allegiant. UNLV would embarrass them.

 

[dcut03]

Do you really think Liberty wants to play a team like UNLV right now? Especially if the game is at Allegiant. UNLV would embarrass them.

True. They have bolstered their standing by playing a garbage schedule. Well that isn't going to work for them this season or in the near future as is looks right now.

So it would make some competitive (and financial) sense for them to want to join the MW, but the travel would be brutal.

 

[Masked_rebel]

True. They have bolstered their standing by playing a garbage schedule. Well that isn't going to work for them this season or in the near future as is looks right now.

So it would make some competitive (and financial) sense for them to want to join the MW, but the travel would be brutal.

If the MWC can get out of these Friday night games, it wouldn't be too bad. Arent they a private university and most teams charter these days anyways. The Hawaii games would suck... Basketball you just do road, road, home, home, week off, road, road.. something that lets them balance travel. They would need an East coast partner that could help that kind of arrangement.

 

[dcut03]

If the MWC can get out of these Friday night games, it wouldn't be too bad. Arent they a private university and most teams charter these days anyways. The Hawaii games would suck... Basketball you just do road, road, home, home, week off, road, road.. something that lets them balance travel. They would need an East coast partner that could help that kind of arrangement.

Yeah, honestly they may only want to be a Football only member.

I think they have a good amount of money, so the marginal bump in TV revenue they would get may not be much of a factor for them TBH.

Even so they would probably want an east coast partner like WKU.

Playing a Bball game in Hawaii is just brutal.

 

[1Tripoda]

True. They have bolstered their standing by playing a garbage schedule. Well that isn't going to work for them this season or in the near future as is looks right now.

So it would make some competitive (and financial) sense for them to want to join the MW, but the travel would be brutal.

If that is what they want, come on over. Travel to the other side of the country and to get bludgeoned every week.