ABOUT THAT MONEY...

[Bullmastiff 1]

Debt: In September 2024, UNLV was reported to have a debt of $20.6 million in its athletic department.

So basically we are going to pay off our debt.

Which is good.

Not sure the remaining 5 million will be enough to lock up Odom long term, and position ourselves for the BIG12 and also improve our NIL packages..

Is there more money coming down the road?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Only at UNLV..

Could you somehow manage being gifted the Mendenhall Center and Fertitta football complex, access to playing in a state of the art football stadium, hire a coach capable of turning your program around and somehow parlay yourself into a worse conference vs when you had no facility, were slumming it at Sam Boyd with Mike Sanford at the helm.

 

[oneepstein]

F***ing horrible.

 

[lvrebalum2012]

Any clue on how the school got into that much debt in the first place? Weren’t we in the black for a few years prior (hate to say it, but with DRF at the helm)?

 

[Rod_the_Rebel]

I hope we fade into oblivion

Dumbest fuc*ing serious of decisions I’ve ever seen

I will not support any of this

We absolutely deserve to be nuked out of existence and I hope Eric Harper doesn’t sleep for a while

 

[Masked_rebel]

Debt: In September 2024, UNLV was reported to have a debt of $20.6 million in its athletic department.

So basically we are going to pay off our debt.

Which is good.

Not sure the remaining 5 million will be enough to lock up Odom long term, and position ourselves for the BIG12 and also improve our NIL packages..

Is there more money coming down the road?

I don't think they use it all on "debt payments".. most major athletic departments carry debt in numbers much more substantial than the 20 million. P4 teams operate with huge debts owed. So don't just immediately lock into how much money there is owed and oh look cash influx so therefore we'll pay it all down. Heck, WSU holds 100 million in debt...

 

[Stoker016]

20mil in debt for an athletic dept is not massive. No chance they take the 25-30mil and pay that off. Would be an unwise move. They'll continue payments on it and use the 25-30 for coaching contracts in bball and football over the coming seasons, among other things. Heck probably allocate a portion for paying bigger programs to play here in OOC games over next couple of years as well to help attendance and eyeballs.

 

[BornRebelRed]

I’m pretty sure UNLV has a secret handshake agreement to join the Big 12 at their next real realignment. Play a normal Mountain West schedule for the next two years, then use the extra money to pay coaches, players and any expenses to join. The Pac 12 is not our friend. Remember, Arizona and Arizona State are in the Big 12. It’s where we want to be. The new Pac 12 will not be signing any gigantic media contract. It’s just not gonna happen. Take a deep breath and relax. It will all play out in UNLV”s favor in the end. Ps. Sluka quitting will ignite the Rebs as the new QB is more than capable and more in tune with the other players.

 

[ckfitz]

Debt: In September 2024, UNLV was reported to have a debt of $20.6 million in its athletic department.

So basically we are going to pay off our debt.

Which is good.

Not sure the remaining 5 million will be enough to lock up Odom long term, and position ourselves for the BIG12 and also improve our NIL packages..

Is there more money coming down the road?

Bull, I looked up the Athletics' Department debt load and I saw $10 million as of 2023 with no debt added in 2024. My information is from UNLV's athletic site. I've seen the $20 before in other posts. Do you know why there is such a large difference?

 

[TimothyC3]

What is not being discussed is why any school would pay $17 mill to join a G5 conference? Didn’t the PAC2 pick up the exit fee for Boise and the 1st 4? Also, don’t expect much of a discount on the exit fees. SMU’s exit fee from the AAC was $27.5 mill and negotiated to $25 mill. But that was paid to join a P4 conference.

 

[Masked_rebel]

What is not being discussed is why any school would pay $17 mill to join a G5 conference? Didn’t the PAC2 pick up the exit fee for Boise and the 1st 4? Also, don’t expect much of a discount on the exit fees. SMU’s exit fee from the AAC was $27.5 mill and negotiated to $25 mill. But the was paid to join a P4 conference.

Yes. That's why they went to the Pac 2. They agreed to cover all fees. Then they tried to low ball everyone else instead offering estimated media payouts that exceeded current deals. Now they're trying to get out of half of those fees... it's dumb buisness

 

[dcut03]

What is not being discussed is why any school would pay $17 mill to join a G5 conference? Didn’t the PAC2 pick up the exit fee for Boise and the 1st 4? Also, don’t expect much of a discount on the exit fees. SMU’s exit fee from the AAC was $27.5 mill and negotiated to $25 mill. But the was paid to join a P4 conference.

They will not pay 17 mil, it will be much less.
What they will pay could be paid for with increased revenue in as many as 3 years. And that is just the profit over the contract that they are used to.
New conference will be G5 but much stronger top to bottom. Oh yeah and the old conference is going to drop significantly
Thats why.
Also the PAC has over 200 mil in the war chest, I'm guessing thiy can afford to help with some of these exit fees.
They are the MW now, and we are the WAC after the MW teams were created.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Except they didnt... they offered Memphis and Tulane a whole 2 million. They can't spend the war chest because WSU and OSU have huge budget deficits and carry over 160 million in debt. They need the war chest to pay themselves too.

 

[TimothyC3]

They will not pay 17 mil, it will be much less.
What they will pay could be paid for with increased revenue in as many as 3 years. And that is just the profit over the contract that they are used to.
New conference will be G5 but much stronger top to bottom. Oh year and the old conference is going to drop significantly
Thats why.
Also the PAC has over 200 mil in the war chest, I'm guessing thiy can afford to help with some of these exit fees.
They are the MW now, and we are the WAC after the MW teams were created.

How do you know they will pay much less. SMU negotiated only a 10% reduction with the AAC from $27.5 mill to $25 mill. 10% appears to be the norm.

 

[oneepstein]

In all seriousness though, who the f*** is the PAC adding that isn’t going to be a huge black eye to finish all this off?

Take UNLV and AFA off the board for now…

Any of the remaining MW teams would (imho) be an “ok” add and still within your footprint. I mean at this point they have to just hold their noses and do what needs to be done.

Who else? One of the previously mentioned Texas Schools, who are so popular I can’t remember any of their names?

Another run at the AAC schools? I mean maybe but…

I’m sure there are more dominoes to fall… just too much makes no sense.

 

[LVRebel2000]

They will not pay 17 mil, it will be much less.
What they will pay could be paid for with increased revenue in as many as 3 years. And that is just the profit over the contract that they are used to.
New conference will be G5 but much stronger top to bottom. Oh year and the old conference is going to drop significantly
Thats why.
Also the PAC has over 200 mil in the war chest, I'm guessing thiy can afford to help with some of these exit fees.
They are the MW now, and we are the WAC after the MW teams were created.

Why would they NOT pay 17 million? That's in the MWC bylaws signed by all of the schools.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Why would they NOT pay 17 million? That's in the MWC bylaws signed by all of the schools.

Because precedence has been set that these are negotiated down.. But even 60% is 54 million for 5 schools leaving. and that would be a very good job on the legal sides argument to take it down that far. Again, thats not a battle the Pac 2 are going to shell out cash to help with so thats the universities' deciding to invest legal $ into a battle they are still going to lose.

 

[LVRebel2000]

Because precedence has been set that these are negotiated down.. But even 60% is 54 million for 5 schools leaving. and that would be a very good job on the legal sides argument to take it down that far. Again, thats not a battle the Pac 2 are going to shell out cash to help with so thats the universities' deciding to invest legal $ into a battle they are still going to lose.

What precedent?

 

[dcut03]

Why would they NOT pay 17 million? That's in the MWC bylaws signed by all of the schools.

Because every other exit fee situation has been negotiated down in recent years. Usually to about 60%. The MW's seem to be a bit egregious based on the value of the media contract so far, so I can see it get down to 50%.
PAC's exit fees were 10 mil on 1 year contract with 1 year notice that was worth well over 20 mil per school. It got negotiated to 50% to 5 mil a piece.
So expecting more than 3x's the value of a single year with 2 years notice is above precendent quite a bit.
Typically part of the negotiations is future NCAAT money for instance. So I would guess the MW keeps future NCAA money, but gives up on the exit fees.

 

[dcut03]

Why would they NOT pay 17 million? That's in the MWC bylaws signed by all of the schools.

How do you know they will pay much less. SMU negotiated only a 10% reduction with the AAC from $27.5 mill to $25 mill. 10% appears to be the norm.

That was a single school with a boatload of cash in the bank that could take the hit.
PAC was 50%, the recent CUSA teams to the AAC was about 60% 1.75 mil on a 3 mil exit fee.
Also notice the value of the exit fees, significantly less than what the MW set.
All of these other situations were agreed upon in their bylaws, but were still talked down.
My guess the MW set them very high knowing they would get talked down, hopefully getting a percentage. Honestly I could see it get down to even 5 mil per team or even less.

 

[LVRebel2000]

Because every other exit fee situation has been negotiated down in recent years. Usually to about 60%. The MW's seem to be a bit egregious based on the value of the media contract so far, so I can see it get down to 50%.
PAC's exit fees were 10 mil on 1 year contract with 1 year notice that was worth well over 20 mil per school. It got negotiated to 50% to 5 mil a piece.
So expecting more than 3x's the value of a single year with 2 years notice is above precendent quite a bit.
Typically part of the negotiations is future NCAAT money for instance. So I would guess the MW keeps future NCAA money, but gives up on the exit fees.

That's not true. Look at the most recent departures of the schools that left the AAC and into the Big 12.

The AAC agreement said you have to give 27 months notice and pay $10 million. Since they were less than the 27 months, it became a negotiated deal.

SMU paid $24 million.
Houston, Cinci and UCF each paid $18 million.

 

[ricovegas]

I’m pretty sure UNLV has a secret handshake agreement to join the Big 12 at their next real realignment. Play a normal Mountain West schedule for the next two years, then use the extra money to pay coaches, players and any expenses to join. The Pac 12 is not our friend. Remember, Arizona and Arizona State are in the Big 12. It’s where we want to be. The new Pac 12 will not be signing any gigantic media contract. It’s just not gonna happen. Take a deep breath and relax. It will all play out in UNLV”s favor in the end. Ps. Sluka quitting will ignite the Rebs as the new QB is more than capable and more in tune with the other players.

I hope you're right.

 

[reagan21]

That was a single school with a boatload of cash in the bank that could take the hit.
PAC was 50%, the recent CUSA teams to the AAC was about 60% 1.75 mil on a 3 mil exit fee.
Also notice the value of the exit fees, significantly less than what the MW set.
All of these other situations were agreed upon in their bylaws, but were still talked down.
My guess the MW set them very high knowing they would get talked down, hopefully getting a percentage. Honestly I could see it get down to even 5 mil per team or even less.

Those are schools not flush with cash. We're talking about the PacSuns who poached, at least 4 teams, under the shadow of "we will pay your exit fees." PacSuns are flush with cold hard cash.

I have clients who want to get and are entitled to $2M but the reality is the Defendant only has $600k...so that's what we settle on. Not the same situation with those schools and their reduction of exit fees. Get that money...

I WILL SAY THIS!!!!!!!

It would be wise for the MWC to accept a reduced amount now than wait until 7/1/26. Tell them, you can pay us $17 each in 2026 ORRRRRRR $11M now. I bet this is happening as we speak.

 

[oneepstein]

That was a single school with a boatload of cash in the bank that could take the hit.
PAC was 50%, the recent CUSA teams to the AAC was about 60% 1.75 mil on a 3 mil exit fee.
Also notice the value of the exit fees, significantly less than what the MW set.
All of these other situations were agreed upon in their bylaws, but were still talked down.
My guess the MW set them very high knowing they would get talked down, hopefully getting a percentage. Honestly I could see it get down to even 5 mil per team or even less.

The exit fees owed by the schools leaving will be withheld from future media rights distributions to those schools per MW bylaws. If that’s $6 million each (as I’ve read) and the payments are made on June 1st of each calendar year (per MW bylaws again), then that’s two payments each that they will not be getting.

 

[Vegas_Sooner21]

Program is such a joke. If we aren’t in the BIG12 in a few years you can kiss any sort of relevance in the future goodbye. Wish our NIL collective wasn’t a total joke either.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I’m pretty sure UNLV has a secret handshake agreement to join the Big 12 at their next real realignment. Play a normal Mountain West schedule for the next two years, then use the extra money to pay coaches, players and any expenses to join. The Pac 12 is not our friend. Remember, Arizona and Arizona State are in the Big 12. It’s where we want to be. The new Pac 12 will not be signing any gigantic media contract. It’s just not gonna happen. Take a deep breath and relax. It will all play out in UNLV”s favor in the end. Ps. Sluka quitting will ignite the Rebs as the new QB is more than capable and more in tune with the other players.

Then it would be the right move.

 

[CEERebel]

I have no idea how the AD has their debt structured or how that debt played a part in the negotiations with the TEMU12. However, it does appear to be clear that there's a likely combination of factors involving debt/cash on hand that played a big roll into UNLVs decision to stay in the MWC.

The goal, IMO, is UNLV having the ability to keep Odom past this season. It's going to take a significant increase in pay, not only to him, but his assistants and the department in general to keep them around. I'm guessing that it would be VERY difficult for UNLV to pay the exit fee, potentially take less from a future media rights deal AND pay Odom and staff to remain on board. The obvious choice is you do everything in your power to put yourself in the best position possible to keep CBO and staff happy. Afterall, they're the sole reason UNLV has any relevance and sway in this clusterf**k. I would rather remain in the MWC, flush with some cash (hopefully without a commitment past 2026), CBO and Co. still at the helm maintaining national relevance and consistently in reach of the CFP than paying an exorbitant amount of money to join the MWC 2.0, not having cash on hand to pay Odom and falling back down the bottom of the barrel in the TEMU12. Say goodbye to any hopes at all to the potential (longshot?) of being able to hop into a P5.

In the end, what would be better for future expansion? UNLV, while in a lower conference than the TEMU12, maintaining relevance in the only sport that truly matters when it comes to future realignment or becoming irrelevant in the TEMU12 and pitching "Hey, we have the 'potential' to be a great market for future expansion".

 

[WarthogRebel]

I’m pretty sure UNLV has a secret handshake agreement to join the Big 12 at their next real realignment. Play a normal Mountain West schedule for the next two years, then use the extra money to pay coaches, players and any expenses to join. The Pac 12 is not our friend. Remember, Arizona and Arizona State are in the Big 12. It’s where we want to be. The new Pac 12 will not be signing any gigantic media contract. It’s just not gonna happen. Take a deep breath and relax. It will all play out in UNLV”s favor in the end. Ps. Sluka quitting will ignite the Rebs as the new QB is more than capable and more in tune with the other players.

But hasn't Sluka -gate shown just how good a secret handshake is?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

F***ing horrible.

Chin up buckaroo...

There are some pretty smart folks on this board that think this was the right play.

You and I seem to be in the other camp.

And I hate to break it to you but outside of @bcvegaspt I might be the biggest IDIOT on these boards.

 

[WarthogRebel]

Chin up buckaroo...

There are some pretty smart folks on this board that think this was the right play.

You and I seem to be in the other camp.

And I hate to break it to you but outside of @bcvegaspt I might be the biggest IDIOT on these boards.

I resemble that remark.

 

[dcut03]

Those are schools not flush with cash. We're talking about the PacSuns who poached, at least 4 teams, under the shadow of "we will pay your exit fees." PacSuns are flush with cold hard cash.

I have clients who want to get and are entitled to $2M but the reality is the Defendant only has $600k...so that's what we settle on. Not the same situation with those schools and their reduction of exit fees. Get that money...

I WILL SAY THIS!!!!!!!

It would be wise for the MWC to accept a reduced amount now than wait until 7/1/26. Tell them, you can pay us $17 each in 2026 ORRRRRRR $11M now. I bet this is happening as we speak.

I was talking about SMU specifically. Their reduction of the exit fees was not much, but there was still a reduction.

They are doing just fine, to be willing to pay 25 million to play in the ACC for free.

PacSuns: Well either they are flush with cash or they aren't.

They have over 200 mil in their war chest, but if all that money was available why not help pay all of the exit fees to get the conference that you want?

Or they are heavy in debt, which is why they aren't paying everyone's fees.

 

[dcut03]

That's not true. Look at the most recent departures of the schools that left the AAC and into the Big 12.

The AAC agreement said you have to give 27 months notice and pay $10 million. Since they were less than the 27 months, it became a negotiated deal.

SMU paid $24 million.
Houston, Cinci and UCF each paid $18 million.

Good Point
But, hat 27 month notice is a pretty stark difference, don't you think? We have no such clause.

Also look at the exit fee. 10 million for a yet another conference with a better media deal than us

The fact that the MW is asking nearly double? That can't be talked down?

 

[utestream]

I have no idea how the AD has their debt structured or how that debt played a part in the negotiations with the TEMU12. However, it does appear to be clear that there's a likely combination of factors involving debt/cash on hand that played a big roll into UNLVs decision to stay in the MWC.

The goal, IMO, is UNLV having the ability to keep Odom past this season. It's going to take a significant increase in pay, not only to him, but his assistants and the department in general to keep them around. I'm guessing that it would be VERY difficult for UNLV to pay the exit fee, potentially take less from a future media rights deal AND pay Odom and staff to remain on board. The obvious choice is you do everything in your power to put yourself in the best position possible to keep CBO and staff happy. Afterall, they're the sole reason UNLV has any relevance and sway in this clusterf**k. I would rather remain in the MWC, flush with some cash (hopefully without a commitment past 2026), CBO and Co. still at the helm maintaining national relevance and consistently in reach of the CFP than paying an exorbitant amount of money to join the MWC 2.0, not having cash on hand to pay Odom and falling back down the bottom of the barrel in the TEMU12. Say goodbye to any hopes at all to the potential (longshot?) of being able to hop into a P5.

In the end, what would be better for future expansion? UNLV, while in a lower conference than the TEMU12, maintaining relevance in the only sport that truly matters when it comes to future realignment or becoming irrelevant in the TEMU12 and pitching "Hey, we have the 'potential' to be a great market for future expansion".

Your thoughts are close to mine. Some people in this board should not rush to commit suicide, unless of course, you write ne in as beneficiary in your life insurance .

 

[LVRebel2000]

Good Point
But, hat 27 month notice is a pretty stark difference, don't you think? We have no such clause.

Also look at the exit fee. 10 million for a yet another conference with a better media deal than us

The fact that the MW is asking nearly double? That can't be talked down?

The MWC has a two tiered exit fee, Give 1 year notice, it's $18 million. Give 2 years, I believe it's $36 million.

Yes, those fees are quite high, but the whole reason that they put those in the bylaws was to try to stop this sort of thing from happening. And all of the schools agreed to it and signed it. So at that point, does it matter if it 'seems too high'?

Sure, it's possible that the MWC could work with the departing schools and/or the PAC on a reduced fee, but when you're fighting for your conference life, why would you? If it goes into litigation, then ultimately the courts will decide it. I don't know what sort of leeway they're likely to get when the stipulations are clearly spelled out.

This 'poaching fee' probably has a better chance of being negotiated, if I had to guess, but IDK.

 

[LVRebel2000]

I was talking about SMU specifically. Their reduction of the exit fees was not much, but there was still a reduction.

There was no reduction at all for SMU. It was a 100% negotiated deal, as per the AAC bylaws. They didn't meet the 27 month notice, which would require a $10 million buyout. They settled for paying $24 million

 

[oneepstein]

And another thing…

Where in the f*** is the MW going to get money for these “bonuses” that are supposedly to be paid for the seven remaining teams?

First off I find the idea hilarious that everyone is supposedly getting a bonus… no you’re not dip $hits… it’s your effing money! Aside from UNLV and AFA the rest of you are getting penalties, cuz their money is coming out of yours morons!

Second, no money has been effing paid or collected aside from MAYBE the small fee that was due from the departing teams… $5,000 each… and I’m not even positive about that. Media rights payments that would be paid to the leaving members is forfeited. But that annual payment is made on June 1st, so all those fu**ers already got paid this year. I’m sure that payment coincides with when the MW is paid so where the f*** is this “bonus” money going to come from?

IF the annual payments are as I’ve heard at $6 million per team then that’s $30 mil next year and $30 mil the year after… so that’s $60 mil you can actually count on. Everything else is up in the air and will likely get negotiated down imho.

Well you just promised ALL or MOST of what you can count on to UNLV and AFA.

Chris Murray from the RGJ reported that UNR is set to get “high seven figures”… why? Who the hell knows, but you’d have to expect that at a bare minimum everybody else other than Hawaii is getting the same…

Where. Are. They. Getting. The. Money.

Sure they may collect on a good portion, but none of that is a given.

If the money is not guaranteed then it shouldn’t be used to factor in to your decision.

 

[Masked_rebel]

55 million dollar poaching fee is pretty solid, the Pac 12 lawsuit is BS...
18 million exit fee x 5 teams is 90 million... take a negotiated settlement and call it 60% at 54 million... technically exit fees are paid out of future payouts, etc. But it's still money not going to those 5 schools.
That's 109 let's say 110 million dollars. Take 25 million to AFA, 30 million to UNLV, and distribute 5 million to the other 5 is 80 million so there's still 30 million dollars to distribute as well or use to help buyout or FCS elevation.
The Pac 2 are ridiculous to think they can tear a conference apart and not pay anything while sitting on 200+ million from the exact same situation. That's where the money is coming from

 

[Rebel_Luv]

 

[oneepstein]

55 million dollar poaching fee is pretty solid, the Pac 12 lawsuit is BS...
18 million exit fee x 5 teams is 90 million... take a negotiated settlement and call it 60% at 54 million... technically exit fees are paid out of future payouts, etc. But it's still money not going to those 5 schools.
That's 109 let's say 110 million dollars. Take 25 million to AFA, 30 million to UNLV, and distribute 5 million to the other 5 is 80 million so there's still 30 million dollars to distribute as well or use to help buyout or FCS elevation.
The Pac 2 are ridiculous to think they can tear a conference apart and not pay anything while sitting on 200+ million from the exact same situation. That's where the money is coming from

Disagree a bit on the solidity of it. The exit fees that are going to be withheld are solid in my opinion. $6 mil per year per leaving team = $60 mil

The remainder of the exit fees I think would get negotiated away, but maybe you collect half… $15 mil at some point in the future.

My guess is half the PAC penalty, so what’s that 1/2 of $55 mil… round up to $28 mill.

You’re up to $103 mil. $60 mil to AF and UNLV and the rest split $43 mil?

Maybe… but I’d bet it won’t end up being that much.

 

[oneepstein]

One more thing…

If we couldn’t leave why is the MW paying us so much?