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Rice, Rice, baby

kk2

Walk On
Mar 22, 2024
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Great "pub" for THIRD year Coach Kev for getting UNLV its first post season win in 16 YEARS, something that Rice could never do in his 4 plus yrs at UNLV.

Read them and weep:
2011 -12 - zero post season wins
2012- 13 - zero post season wins
2013-14 - failed to make post season
2014-15 - failed to make post season
2015-16 - Fired MID SEASON
 
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Great "pub" for THIRD year Coach Kev for getting UNLV its first post season win in 16 YEARS, something that Rice could never do in his 4 plus yrs at UNLV.

Read them and weep:
2011 -12 - zero post season wins
2012- 13 - zero post season wins
2013-14 - failed to make post season
2014-15 - failed to make post season
2015-16 - Fired MID SEASON
I am Utah fan first, and UNLV fan second. However, I state what I believe to be obvious. Dave Rice led UNLV to two NCAA tournament appearances in his first two years as a head coach. KK has yet to lead UNLV to even 1 NCAA tournament appearance in 3 years. KK must build on this opportunity this year to ultimately lead UNLV to his first tournament next year, his first in 4 years as a head coach, or he likely won't have the opportunity for a fifth year. Putting it bluntly, if KK approaches next year with the attitude that 1 NIT win or even winning the entire NIT this year is greater than even 1 even NCAA tournament appearance, he sets himself up for failure. His only path for success to even remain head coach at UNLV, not even talking about jobs with universities with the financial strength and resources of an Oklahoma, Texas, or Utah, is to recognize that he has much work to do (improve his in-game coaching of the offense to handle the press, improve his roster construction, improve how he handles practices amd preparation to not get blown out by AF at home) and take things to the next level. Complacency can end his head coaching career permanently.
 
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"Dave Rice led UNLV to two NCAA tournament appearances in his first two years as a head coach. "
And no one mention's the fact that those were LON KRUGER'S PLAYERS!!!
As LK's players graduated and moved on you saw the slow demise of Rice's program.

After that you saw the kind of player's Rice recruited....Anthony Bennett.
LAZY, NO HUSTLE, NO DEFENSE = 1st ROUND NBA BUST.
 
"Dave Rice led UNLV to two NCAA tournament appearances in his first two years as a head coach. "
And no one mention's the fact that those were LON KRUGER'S PLAYERS!!!
As LK's players graduated and moved on you saw the slow demise of Rice's program.

After that you saw the kind of player's Rice recruited....Anthony Bennett.
LAZY, NO HUSTLE, NO DEFENSE = 1st ROUND NBA BUST.
Kevin, is that you?
 
While I agree Rice wasnt very good and managing/coaching the guys he brought in. He also brought in guys that were ranked high but probably chose UNLV over much better programs because they didn't want to work for their minutes (as you say lazy), I also dont think it did a good job assembling a staff that would help make up for his deficiencies , but with that said you are using a meaningless NIT win as your argument? Come on bro.
 
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After that you saw the kind of player's Rice recruited....Anthony Bennett.
LAZY, NO HUSTLE, NO DEFENSE = 1st ROUND NBA BUST.
This is such a solid point, let me just compare him to all the NBA draft picks that Kevin has recruited, I'm sure with his historical post season acumen there's got to be a few in the last 3 years, right? And once I'm done with that I'll check to see how many weeks his hard working and obviously superior teams spent in the top 25. Then maybe I'll count MWC tournament wins not against the last placed team. Maybe 20 wins seasons, but that's such a low bar that's no real metric of success, right? How about attendance? Or are those crickets I'm hearing just from Kevin's crowds?

I do respect the troll, so whoever is running the burner here congratulations, you're doing a great job.
 
"Dave Rice led UNLV to two NCAA tournament appearances in his first two years as a head coach. "
And no one mention's the fact that those were LON KRUGER'S PLAYERS!!!
As LK's players graduated and moved on you saw the slow demise of Rice's program.

After that you saw the kind of player's Rice recruited....Anthony Bennett.
LAZY, NO HUSTLE, NO DEFENSE = 1st ROUND NBA BUST.

Thanks for your input Golf course LON.

Rice inherited the walk-in’ Rebels (remember the embarrassment against Illinois?) and they defeated the #1 program in the country under Rice.

It wasn’t perfect under Rice and I don’t believe he was completely comfortable being the head coach but he did so for unlv. We were told all we had to do was remove Rice and we’ll be successful. Took us 9 years to get into a second rate tournament.
 
Great "pub" for THIRD year Coach Kev for getting UNLV its first post season win in 16 YEARS, something that Rice could never do in his 4 plus yrs at UNLV.

Read them and weep:
2011 -12 - zero post season wins
2012- 13 - zero post season wins
2013-14 - failed to make post season
2014-15 - failed to make post season
2015-16 - Fired MID SEASON
An asterisk on the 2013-2014 season. I'm almost certain we received an invite to the NIT, but Rice declined, citing that is NOT the standard being set for the program.

I would take an NCAA appearance over an NIT win any day.
 
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I hate to say it but Rice was coasting on the fumes of Kruger's discipline and structure those first 2 years. He did manage to bring in top shelf talent - but didn't do much with it. Should have been Rice and Augmon as assistants in charge of offense and defense X's and O's and LJ as the HC in charge of being a charismatic figurehead.
 
An asterisk on the 2013-2014 season. I'm almost certain we received an invite to the NIT, but Rice declined, citing that is NOT the standard being set for the program.

I would take an NCAA appearance over an NIT win any day.
Can’t remember which year it was …. One year it was declined though.

Which I can understand. If a season ends in disappointment, below expectations … nobody is going to be too amped to play in this thing.
 
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Can’t remember which year it was …. One year it was declined though.

Which I can understand. If a season ends in disappointment, below expectations … nobody is going to be too amped to play in this thing.
The end of the season was a disappointment, but going to the NIT is a start for UNLV to move forward. Next year expectation is the NCAA tournament.
 
The end of the season was a disappointment, but going to the NIT is a start for UNLV to move forward. Next year expectation is the NCAA tournament.
If it’s a building block, great. Bayno used it as such and even Lon Kruger (though we underachieved those first two years to fall into the NIT, until KK arrived).

If it’s a ceiling, then it’s really bad.

I think it has to be NCAA at large or bust next season and you can’t whimper in the first round in the UNM fashion. That was hard to watch basketball.
 
Let Dave Rice be head of recruitment!
Why do you think Rice was such a good recruiter. Didn't Coach Miller really recruit the guys?

Also, many of our top recruits were vastly overrated. Zimmerman and R Vaughan being 2 that I was not seeing at all why they were highly regarded.
 
If it’s a building block, great. Bayno used it as such and even Lon Kruger (though we underachieved those first two years to fall into the NIT, until KK arrived).

If it’s a ceiling, then it’s really bad.

I think it has to be NCAA at large or bust next season and you can’t whimper in the first round in the UNM fashion. That was hard to watch basketball.
That is why my expectation was NCAA this year, and next year that is the bottom floor expectation. Either make the NCAA or make your way to the exit coach!
 
Why do you think Rice was such a good recruiter. Didn't Coach Miller really recruit the guys?

Also, many of our top recruits were vastly overrated. Zimmerman and R Vaughan being 2 that I was not seeing at all why they were highly regarded.
Don’t forget Katin!
 
Why do you think Rice was such a good recruiter. Didn't Coach Miller really recruit the guys?

Also, many of our top recruits were vastly overrated. Zimmerman and R Vaughan being 2 that I was not seeing at all why they were highly regarded.
Dave Rice was very hands-on with recruiting. He basically had briefs for every player and explained to them what their role was going to be and why they should come to UNLV.
 
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One of Rice's biggest failings was not bringing in a top tier point guard to run things. If he had brought in someone of Jaylen Fisher's calibur his first or second year he could've done for the program what DJ is doing now. A pass first point guard could've had a field day distributing to guys like Anthony Bennett, Christian Wood, Rashad Vaughn and Derrick Jones.
 
Zimmerman and R Vaughan being 2 that I was not seeing at all why they were highly regarded.
Vaughan averaged 18 and 5 as a freshman, shot 38% from 3 and was a 1st round draft pick. Zimmerman averaged 10 and 9 as a freshman and was a 2nd round NBA draft pick. Seems like those are two weird highly rated guys to try and say you couldn't see why they were regarded. Those are both really good freshman numbers.

Now, if you wanted to shit on recruits that didn't develop, Dwayne Morgan (RSCI #22 overall), Goodluck Okonoboh (RSCI 36th overall), and Savon Goodman (RSCI 82nd overall) seem like much better targets.

Weird take.
 
Vaughan averaged 18 and 5 as a freshman, shot 38% from 3 and was a 1st round draft pick. Zimmerman averaged 10 and 9 as a freshman and was a 2nd round NBA draft pick. Seems like those are two weird highly rated guys to try and say you couldn't see why they were regarded. Those are both really good freshman numbers.

Now, if you wanted to shit on recruits that didn't develop, Dwayne Morgan (RSCI #22 overall), Goodluck Okonoboh (RSCI 36th overall), and Savon Goodman (RSCI 82nd overall) seem like much better targets.

Weird take.
Very weird. Drafted guys weren’t that good. The NBA made elementary mistakes on large investments.

Dwayne was heavily over-rated, a lot of behind the scenes to get those ratings up. Not a horrible player, but tried to be what he wasn’t, didn’t focus on what he was best at. A PF that could have been in the Wendell White mold but thought he was Dominque Wilkins.

Goodluck, as a player, I actually liked. Raw but had tools. But incredibly misguided and entitled. Ditto Katin.

Savon was going to be difficult start to finish.

All the highly rated FP guys we got, UNLV was a short distraction, pit stop, unfortunately. The ones we got were very talented but were, quite frankly, lazy.

We didn’t get many recruits that were realtively unflawed. Talented, some raw, some more refined … but many weren’t coachable, team first guys. It’s when the elitist, all about me era hit me heavily.
 
Vaughan averaged 18 and 5 as a freshman, shot 38% from 3 and was a 1st round draft pick. Zimmerman averaged 10 and 9 as a freshman and was a 2nd round NBA draft pick. Seems like those are two weird highly rated guys to try and say you couldn't see why they were regarded. Those are both really good freshman numbers.

Now, if you wanted to shit on recruits that didn't develop, Dwayne Morgan (RSCI #22 overall), Goodluck Okonoboh (RSCI 36th overall), and Savon Goodman (RSCI 82nd overall) seem like much better targets.

Weird take.
You have a point but both Vaughn and Zimmerman were touted as top flight stars. Vaughn was concensus top 10 high school and Zimmermann was ranked number 10 by espn. Even though they were drafted it was on fading high school reputation as all I am saying is they were not close to the great hype they came in with. And his was further exposed in nba were Vaughn washed out quick and Zimmerman did not make it at all from what I remember.
 
You have a point but both Vaughn and Zimmerman were touted as top flight stars. Vaughn was concensus top 10 high school and Zimmermann was ranked number 10 by espn. Even though they were drafted it was on fading high school reputation as all I am saying is they were not close to the great hype they came in with. And his was further exposed in nba were Vaughn washed out quick and Zimmerman did not make it at all from what I remember.
They were freshman when they finished their careers here … were you expecting Kobe or Lebron? Zimm played injured all year, missed some of the season. Shad had, what? 20 games in his collegiate career? Same with Zimmerman?
 
Great "pub" for THIRD year Coach Kev for getting UNLV its first post season win in 16 YEARS, something that Rice could never do in his 4 plus yrs at UNLV.

Read them and weep:
2011 -12 - zero post season wins
2012- 13 - zero post season wins
2013-14 - failed to make post season
2014-15 - failed to make post season
2015-16 - Fired MID SEASON
Rice made so much NOISE recruiting - he raised the bar on himself - He shot for the Stars and fizzled out. Expectations from fans and the boosters were HIGH. Boosters gave their $upport and he didn't produce - bad investment - He played the game and lost. Kevin takes a safer approach
 
They were freshman when they finished their careers here … were you expecting Kobe or Lebron? Zimm played injured all year, missed some of the season. Shad had, what? 20 games in his collegiate career? Same with Zimmerman?
I was expecting "one and done talent". You could quickly see Zimmermann was not that good and Rashad had a very shaky shot.
 
Agree on Zimm. Rashad’s shot was a thing of beauty though. He had a good touch.
He was expecting one and done talent, which they both were as they played one year and were actually drafted by the NBA, Rashad in the lottery.

Now if you said you expected NBA 10 year career or NBA HOF, they fell short.

That they didn’t stick? That’s a different story and I don’t think that had anything to do with UNLV. I thought both would have benefitted from 2-3 years of college hoops but Rashad was one and done whether he ended up here or elsewhere, that was his plan the entire time. Perhaps that’s why Blue Bloods didn’t go hard after him. But UNLV is supposed to say no? Come on. Rashad was flawed. He had a really good stroke. But that was it. Handle soft, defense softer, work ethic even softer. I was surprised he was picked as highly as he was with all the flaws. Great kid, low drive.

As for Zimm, I believe they were far more flexible to a couple of years, especially with the injury. But everything blew up at the school and it probably seemed best to just go league. Had it been like it’s now, my bet is Zimm would have transferred and played a year elsewhere but I cannot speak for him or the family. That’s just my gut feel. But given the rules back then, you had to sit out a year to transfer. With the mess that UNLV created with the midseason firing, it kind of forced the hand. Nobody worth anything was going to play for Menzies … that was pretty well evident. They all bolted aside from Poyser and Green who were benchers that defaulted into starters with Menzies.

So it’s not as cut and dry as everyone seems to think.

NBA Fringe guys that stay multiple years are the best. Especially if you can get three out of them. The first year will be the toughest, obviously.

NBA fringe guys that leave after one year … it seldom works out well for the school, the fans, the player. It worked out for Derrick Jones, even though he went undrafted. Though he was more stay in school another year camp type but UNLV’s poor decisions/execution impacted that one as well.
 
Rice made so much NOISE recruiting - he raised the bar on himself - He shot for the Stars and fizzled out. Expectations from fans and the boosters were HIGH. Boosters gave their $upport and he didn't produce - bad investment - He played the game and lost. Kevin takes a safer approach
Aiming high and falling short can still give a better ending point than aiming low and hitting the target.

I get the disappointment. People don’t like being hurt/disappointed. It sucks.

But apathy, at least to me, is far, far worse. And I think a lot of fans feel the same and it’s echoed in butts in seats. Actual butts in seats are probably around 25-30% of what they were 10 years ago. It speaks volumes, it’s the best barometer of program health, imo. It’s what coaching staffs use internally, not publically …
 
He was expecting one and done talent, which they both were as they played one year and were actually drafted by the NBA, Rashad in the lottery.

Now if you said you expected NBA 10 year career or NBA HOF, they fell short.

That they didn’t stick? That’s a different story and I don’t think that had anything to do with UNLV. I thought both would have benefitted from 2-3 years of college hoops but Rashad was one and done whether he ended up here or elsewhere, that was his plan the entire time. Perhaps that’s why Blue Bloods didn’t go hard after him. But UNLV is supposed to say no? Come on. Rashad was flawed. He had a really good stroke. But that was it. Handle soft, defense softer, work ethic even softer. I was surprised he was picked as highly as he was with all the flaws. Great kid, low drive.

As for Zimm, I believe they were far more flexible to a couple of years, especially with the injury. But everything blew up at the school and it probably seemed best to just go league. Had it been like it’s now, my bet is Zimm would have transferred and played a year elsewhere but I cannot speak for him or the family. That’s just my gut feel. But given the rules back then, you had to sit out a year to transfer. With the mess that UNLV created with the midseason firing, it kind of forced the hand. Nobody worth anything was going to play for Menzies … that was pretty well evident. They all bolted aside from Poyser and Green who were benchers that defaulted into starters with Menzies.

So it’s not as cut and dry as everyone seems to think.

NBA Fringe guys that stay multiple years are the best. Especially if you can get three out of them. The first year will be the toughest, obviously.

NBA fringe guys that leave after one year … it seldom works out well for the school, the fans, the player. It worked out for Derrick Jones, even though he went undrafted. Though he was more stay in school another year camp type but UNLV’s poor decisions/execution impacted that one as well.

If anyone asks why UNLV has been a dumpster fire in BB for all but a few seasons the last 33 years, this can explain some of it.


Its now been 16 seasons since UNLV last won a tourney game. Kids that were born this time in 2008 just got their drivers license.

We did blow out Kent that game, I think got up something like 23-3 at one pooint, team hotel in Omaha was the Doubletree I think, barkeep was a female all tatted up.
 
Agree on Zimm. Rashad’s shot was a thing of beauty though. He had a good touch.
Rashad shooting percentage at unlv 43.9. Nba career 33.7, 3pt 31.3. Look it up, I guess if the shot being a thing of beauty is clanking off the rim, you got me, sorry I did not see the beauty.
 
I was expecting "one and done talent". You could quickly see Zimmermann was not that good and Rashad had a very shaky shot.
Rashad lead the team in scoring over his 23 games on a roster that included Chris Wood and Pat McCaw both of who would also have some NBA experience. He played for one year and then was drafted 17th overall. That's literally a 'One and Done' type player. He also was 44/37/69 which is not far from (apart from FTs) the vaunted 50/40/90 shooting splits that make you an assassin.

Zimmerman's injury hampered him for sure, but he still average 10.5 and 8.7 as a freshman is really quite good, I looked back Brendan McCoy got 16.9 and 10.3, AB got 16.1 and 8.1, Dalron got 11.1 and 6.9, Kas got 11.6 and 7.4, Stacey got 9.1 and and 6.1, El Hud got 9.3 and 5.6, Syd Green got 15.6 and 11.1, Larry Anderson got 11.4 and 3.0, Spiderman Burns got 11.1 and 6.3, Eddie Owens got 10.1 and 4.8. Even if you ignor the fact that he was drafted after that freshman year, and even if you say every one of those guys i mentioned was better and more impactful as a freshman he's still got the 10th best front court season of a freshman in program history.

If you go in and dig into the available advanced metrics, he's still got one of the best front court freshman seasons in program history.

That's why I think this is such a weird take that's only based on your personal expectations, not what they did on the court. There are plenty of high recruits that Rice took a swing on and missed that were either bad fits or didn't perform on the court and any of those would have been undestandable to use, But you went after the highest ppg Freshman in program history and one of the top 10 front court freshmen in program history.
 
Rashad lead the team in scoring over his 23 games on a roster that included Chris Wood and Pat McCaw both of who would also have some NBA experience. He played for one year and then was drafted 17th overall. That's literally a 'One and Done' type player. He also was 44/37/69 which is super close (apart from FTs) to the vaunted 50/40/90 shooting splits that make you an assassin.

Zimmerman's injury hampered him for sure, but he still average 10.5 and 8.7 as a freshman is really quite good, I looked back Brendan McCoy got 16.9 and 10.3, AB got 16.1 and 8.1, Dalron got 11.1 and 6.9, Kas got 11.6 and 7.4, Stacey got 9.1 and and 6.1, El Hud got 9.3 and 5.6, Syd Green got 15.6 and 11.1, Larry Anderson got 11.4 and 3.0, Spiderman Burns got 11.1 and 6.3, Eddie Owens got 10.1 and 4.8. Even if you ignor the fact that he was drafted after that freshman year, and even if you say every one of those guys i mentioned was better and more impactful as a freshman he's still got the 10th best front court season of a freshman in program history.

If you go in and dig into the available advanced metrics, he's still got one of the best front court freshman seasons in program history.

That's why I think this is such a weird take that's only based on your personal expectations, not what they did on the court. There are plenty of high recruits that Rice took a swing on and missed that were either bad fits or didn't perform on the court and any of those would have been undestandable to use, But you went after the highest ppg Freshman in program history and one of the top 10 front court freshmen in program history.
That’s what my take was. It seems very personal and highly biased, not based upon any sort of reality.
 
Rashad shooting percentage at unlv 43.9. Nba career 33.7, 3pt 31.3. Look it up, I guess if the shot being a thing of beauty is clanking off the rim, you got me, sorry I did not see the beauty.
Didn't follow his NBA career, obviously it was short lived.

Only speaking for his time at UNLV, dude could shoot and score with the best of them. Especially impressive as a freshman. I'm sure they are out there, but I don't recall another freshman that we've had in the last 20 years that could shoot and score as effortlessly has Rashad. I enjoyed watching him play here for his lone season.
 
Didn't follow his NBA career, obviously it was short lived.

Only speaking for his time at UNLV, dude could shoot and score with the best of them. Especially impressive as a freshman. I'm sure they are out there, but I don't recall another freshman that we've had in the last 20 years that could shoot and score as effortlessly has Rashad. I enjoyed watching him play here for his lone season.
I was a little underwhelmed with Rashad. With him being on the NBA radar when he was even at FP, I assumed his work ethic would be higher than it was. Figured defensive effort, rebounding effort would be higher. He really underwhelmed me with those. His shooting ability I expected, ability to score. But overall, yeah, I thought we’d get more than we actually got.
 
I was a little underwhelmed with Rashad. With him being on the NBA radar when he was even at FP, I assumed his work ethic would be higher than it was. Figured defensive effort, rebounding effort would be higher. He really underwhelmed me with those. His shooting ability I expected, ability to score. But overall, yeah, I thought we’d get more than we actually got.
The top 5 recruits I can remember that committed to Unlv were LJ, Sid Green, Lloyd Daniels, Shawn Kemp, and Ed O'Bannon. We know only 2 of those ever played for Unlv. Rashad V and Zimmerman would based on high school rankings just be a notch below that bunch I mentioned. So yes, I was expecting 2 extremely talented players and I did not see it even close. Were they good freshmen if you compared them vs your general recruit? Of course. But their hype was large and they were not close to that.
 
The top 5 recruits I can remember that committed to Unlv were LJ, Sid Green, Lloyd Daniels, Shawn Kemp, and Ed O'Bannon. We know only 2 of those ever played for Unlv. Rashad V and Zimmerman would based on high school rankings just be a notch below that bunch I mentioned. So yes, I was expecting 2 extremely talented players and I did not see it even close. Were they good freshmen if you compared them vs your general recruit? Of course. But their hype was large and they were not close to that.
Hype … you also have to consider time in history.

For example, LJ far outpaced his hype. Because back then, there wasn’t much hype, news paper print that was second hand info, no videos, no AAU explosion, etc. There were a few newsletters and magazines like Blue Ribbon. But let’s not kid ourselves, the intensity of hype from all directions is now, not then. So much easier to not match the hype now.

Until there is a huge hype machine, it’s hard to not match or be above hype.
 
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