Nothing has changed in CW’s world it looks like
- Thread starter WhiteMamba
- Start date
Wouldn’t surprise me at all. He took the long road there and got little glory along the way, but he got his $$$.
It’s a DNA thing, recognizable early. But so is the talent.
At UNLV, his overall mental maturity was closer to a pre-teen than an adult. It was disappointing because quite frankly, he had as much overall talent as some of the top Rebels ever. Really could do it all.
He left after his junior year … I think he’d have been a first rounder with a senior year here but the mental maturity was going to be an issue. Even his exit from UNLV was incredibly childish.
That it followed him to the league, not all that surprised. Disappointed but not surprised. But I’d love to be disappointed in myself and have a couple dozen million to show for it, you know?
Some kids have a "we" outlook - Some have a "me" outlook
behavior is learned - not inherent- not in the DNA- Same with prejudice
Chris is a "Me" kid - That's it - he did better than I ever thought he would - he cashed in - he is a huge success - we cant knock him for not being a better team mate at UNLV- that was on whoever recruited him.
behavior is learned - not inherent- not in the DNA- Same with prejudice
Chris is a "Me" kid - That's it - he did better than I ever thought he would - he cashed in - he is a huge success - we cant knock him for not being a better team mate at UNLV- that was on whoever recruited him.
Once a person reaches their early teens they don't change much. I guess a near-death experience or quitting a heavy drug habit can initiate change but, beyond things like that, people are set in their early years. I've had supervisors try to tell me they want to hire people who have changed their life. It usually works out for a few months but then they revert back to who they really are. CW seems that way. He can talk the talk - change a little for a while - but he'll always go back to the real Chris.
Because the way he was when he here was rather extreme, when it was stated he straightened out in the NBA (shed the immaturity), I was hopeful but I really didn’t buy it.
Some things are woven into the DNA and then galvanized in youth.
In 36 years, I taught thousands of teens. I coached hundreds.
In school, past school, and teaching school, and working with a whole lot of people, in my 78 years on this earth, let me say this simply.
The idea that people do not change after early teen is absolute, well, you can fertilize your lawn with it.
Are some people unwilling or unable to change? Of course. Read Rebel-net. Inherent factors exist. The generaized idea that humans in general are locked in is ridiculous.
These arguments smack of something beyond explanation of human development.
In school, past school, and teaching school, and working with a whole lot of people, in my 78 years on this earth, let me say this simply.
The idea that people do not change after early teen is absolute, well, you can fertilize your lawn with it.
Are some people unwilling or unable to change? Of course. Read Rebel-net. Inherent factors exist. The generaized idea that humans in general are locked in is ridiculous.
These arguments smack of something beyond explanation of human development.
Some theories exist due to thousands of years of observation. This is one of those theories. Criminal profilers can determine the traits of a person who most likely committed a crime. They can do this only because no matter how important it is to a criminal, they cannot change their innermost desires or behaviors. They may be able to cloak themselves in a false exterior but the true self will eventually come out. If a daughters husband beats her, her father will be afraid for the future unless she leaves. He'll be right to think no matter how sorry the husband appears he'll beat her again. He'll do that because people don't change.
And, by the way, in response to your post I gave examples and counterpoints in a measured way. You'll notice that I didn't refer to your ideas as lawn fertilizer. The same courtesy would be greatly appreciated.
To be clear, you are saying that the die is cast by early teen years? That people will always revert to their 13-year old self? Or 17 or 21 year o,d self?. That people don't change?
Thousands of years? C'mon. Bumps on skulls, shape of skulls, race, religion, the list goes on, of peop,e being generalized by theories.
Stigmata didn't determine behavior any more than sexual desire created hysteria in women.
P,ease check again about profiles. They predict bases and causes of behavior that have occurred. Because serial killers are often male and young does not nean either that all are, or all young males will be.
I apologize for the fertilizer example. It was rude, But. Not for the objection to the over generalized views of people and groups being brought back in our society by some.
Thousands of years? C'mon. Bumps on skulls, shape of skulls, race, religion, the list goes on, of peop,e being generalized by theories.
Stigmata didn't determine behavior any more than sexual desire created hysteria in women.
P,ease check again about profiles. They predict bases and causes of behavior that have occurred. Because serial killers are often male and young does not nean either that all are, or all young males will be.
I apologize for the fertilizer example. It was rude, But. Not for the objection to the over generalized views of people and groups being brought back in our society by some.
The oniyb
Yup, my be
What’s the saying, “a leopard doesn’t change his spots”?
I’m the same Scrub as you see me now. I really haven’t changed. I’m not gonna change.
Why change?
Loving the conversations happening here! And just to spice things up and encourage some positive debate, let me drop some knowledge from educational psychology:
So, there are a bunch of different theories, but "most experts seem to agree that a person's personality gets pretty set in stone by the time they're done with early childhood."
The professors and experts I've worked with in developmental psychology and applied behavior analysis are of consensus that by age 5, a kid's personality is pretty much formed. That's when entitlement can start to rear its head, and I think it gets passed down in all sorts of ways, even through genetics.
If you're looking for a quick summary, check out these cliff notes on developmental psychology:
www.cliffsnotes.com
So, there are a bunch of different theories, but "most experts seem to agree that a person's personality gets pretty set in stone by the time they're done with early childhood."
The professors and experts I've worked with in developmental psychology and applied behavior analysis are of consensus that by age 5, a kid's personality is pretty much formed. That's when entitlement can start to rear its head, and I think it gets passed down in all sorts of ways, even through genetics.
If you're looking for a quick summary, check out these cliff notes on developmental psychology:
Personality Development: Age 2–6
The preschool years are associated with major developments in young children's socialization. No longer totally dependent on their parents, preschoolers begin t
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I certainly think some can change in some areas. I’ve known bad kids that have turned out to be great adults. I’ve known juvenile criminals that have turned out just fine. Not everything is set in stone otherwise jail them for life for a first offense.Loving the conversations happening here! And just to spice things up and encourage some positive debate, let me drop some knowledge from educational psychology:
So, there are a bunch of different theories, but "most experts seem to agree that a person's personality gets pretty set in stone by the time they're done with early childhood."
The professors and experts I've worked with in developmental psychology and applied behavior analysis are of consensus that by age 5, a kid's personality is pretty much formed. That's when entitlement can start to rear its head, and I think it gets passed down in all sorts of ways, even through genetics.
If you're looking for a quick summary, check out these cliff notes on developmental psychology:Personality Development: Age 2–6
The preschool years are associated with major developments in young children's socialization. No longer totally dependent on their parents, preschoolers begin t
Some kids just don’t learn. They essentially stay the same, give or take. And I know we’ve all seen that as well. So you can’t paint with a broad brush.
Chris had two things working against him. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a lower effort player at UNLV. And he was that way at Findlay, as well. And I know he was that way in Cali, as well. He just had low work ethic and pride. And he spends more time on the “I’m gonna fool you with words” than he did on his game. And secondly, I’ve seen some people more hard headed than him, but he’s up there. He knows what’s best, nobody else knows shit, his circle knows best too, screw everyone else. And he won’t budge from that. Marry those together, high odds for lazy underachievement in spite of any talents you may have.
Now if you saw/knew this all beforehand, you wouldn’t be surprised by the results. And I’m not.
Now you always hope that SOMETHING jars them from the path they are heading down, an epiphany …. Or that there is a unique person outside of their circle that can “reach” them. When that doesn’t happen, they stay the path.
I still hope that major something happens with him. He has so much talent and in spite of his inherent flaws that I mention, he’s not a bad dude at all. Other than the lying. But he’s not a bad guy. So I’ll keep hoping, but I’m not betting on it. He is what he is and the only person that can change it is himself, and he hasn’t and probably won’t.
One of my great childhood friends …. He was an f up. We knew it from the earliest ages (became friends in 4th grade). He was “destined” for a bad life. It didn’t stop us all from being friends, but over time, we floated away from him, I didn’t stop us from being friends with him, there was no harsh break up, we just slowly drifted, we weren’t going to be pulled into his scene. I met up with him a couple years back, had a blast, but it was as everyone predicted. There was no “saving” him along the way. He’s a complete mess. We’ve probably all experienced the same. I don’t believe in destiny … but some people just don’t change. And it usually is based upon a weak mind/will or a weak environment but usually both.
UNLV Bro:
I believe this to be true. Not 100% of the time, but it’s a general rule. It’s why those pre-teen years are so damn important. It’s why role models are important, teachers are important, and especially parents are important.
It’s so hard to veer from the impacts that cemented that personality.
Those are the very things you hope jar him into seeing the light. You hope hard lessons learned.
But hard lessons don’t sink into a hardened skull sometimes.
Another great example of a unique personality concerning psycho-development is BDJ. Bryce Jones was a talented athlete but sitting behind Rice's bench you could tell Rice couldn't control him. I remember Rice literally turning around to one of the assistant coaches and just asking what is BDJ doing. BDJ wasn't running the plays prescribed... And BDJ struggled in some ways here. But when he got to the NBA his mentality helped him flourish....on the court. BDJ believing he was "him" helped him flourish. But off the court...? Well, we saw firsthand the true consequences of what can happen when no one tells you "no". RIP BDJ 😔
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Not gonna happen. He’s set in his ways. Remember a school teacher from the 70’s knows more than you. He’s taught thousands of kids under his belt.
His experience is outdated in 2023 In my humble opinion.
If you agree that Chris has underachieved, not remotely reached his potential … where is the “blame”? Among the dozens and dozens of qualified coaches whose job is in exactly that? Or with Chris himself?
People bashed Rice for “not improving” Chris. Though he did “improve” a lot of that came because of opportunity. But no coach along the way has “improved” Chris with the mental aspect, approach, especially work ethic …. Blame all the coaches or Chris?
And that’s my point. It was easily identifiable and predictable if you were even semi-close to the situation … but a lot of the “we are UNLV, we are the best, there is no wrong” opinions took hold instead of facing the actual situation. Head in the sand, ignore the truths …. Reality is very difficult for some people.
Yup, the maturity level even when I’m sitting down at the UNLV..absolutely mind boggling.
Yup, anyone can pick up a the DSM-V Manual and self diagnose themselves or others. It’s one thing we are taught not to do on ourselves if you’re a “professional”.
The theories of psychology are very pertinent to life.
Sounds crazy but I have 189 credits full of Nursing Credits and psychology.
So when @UNLVbro some educational psychology links, my brain automatically remembered all those credits that I took.
I’m more of a Jean Piaget guy myself.
I really HATE how some people try to prop up psychiatry or mental health treatment as an exact science akin to calculating perfectly the trajectory and course a probe to a planet a billion miles away or designing a nuclear reactor to precise specs. We can make ball park guesses regarding the human psyche but we should be able to admit we can be dead wrong for any given situation.
Maybe I am missing the point here. How long has CW been in the league? 2015? 8 years? Didn’t he sign a $41 million contract? Also, he made the league as a undrafted free agent by working his way up from the G leauge or the hard way? Right? That was very difficult and what are the chances of doing that? Less than 1%. Not like he was drafted like Anthony Bennett and stuck. Contrary to the opinions expressed CW had to put in the WORK to play 8 years in the NBA as a undrafted free agent. Or is the argument that he some how underachieved? Really?
You’re right, he turned into a ball of fire, that’s what got him 8 years. His work ethic.
He was the opposite of Louis Amundson - marginal talent, through the roof work ethic. And Louis stuck as well, because of work. Not because of the high talent level of Woods.
He hasn’t changed. He’s low effort, mentally fragile …. No coach improved upon that. Put Louis effort into Wood’s body and you have an all star. Put Wood’s talent in Amundson’s body and he’s an all star. They both stuck because they had high levels of “something”, but were missing something else. Lou will be able to look himself in the mirror and know he gave his all to get what he got. CW won’t be able to say that.
Are you seriously making a claim that CW is, all of a sudden, a guy with strong work ethic? Come on. It didn’t change.
Listen, the NBA knew about it, he was really poor in initial interviews because when they honed in on a questions of effort, and had clear examples, he was flummoxed. He still ended up making it and sticking in spite of that … but everyone knew he wasn’t going to be a hard worker.
How do you know about his work ethic as a pro and what does LA have to do with it? Whataboutism is ridiculous.
I’m not going to disagree with Bennett. He’s another, same cloth. Loads of talent, decent dudes, didn’t work hard. AB flopped mightily.
LA has nothing to do with it, just a counter example.
How do I know? I know specifically from people on the interviews, I know people who have worked him.
But we also know of his pre-NBA work ethic very well … including at FP.
You think he changed. I don’t.
The man stuck. Worked his way up from the G leauge and became a starter and signed a $41 million contract. The NBA doesn’t just give money away.
Bennett was a starter too, no?
I’m debating on work ethic and its impact on reaching potential.
We’ve had others players who only had part of the equation. JR was held back from being the best he could, self inflicted. Marcus was held back from being all he could be, self inflicted. Same with Wood and Bennett. None were limited by talents, only self.
Bennett never came close to CW’s production in the NBA or had anything close to his longevity. As a starter in Houston CW averaged 21 ppg. Coming off the bench in Dallas this past season CW posted 16.6 ppg and 7.3 rpg in 25 minutes before his hand fracture.. He will get picked up.
Chris is a success - according to "UNLV fans" he is NOT ?? - That is freaking crazy - they say he "has a bad work ethic" LMAO . Tons of people hating on him in this thread _ NOT one of them are sitting as pretty as he is ..................."Haters Never come from a better place than you are " Love that quote !! just sounds like a bunch of sad pathetic bitter Rebel fans to me. SAd they haven't won anything in decades - Sad they never tapped into his talent. SAd they never got a slice of the pie - Sad SAd SAd
Lots of times kids are weary of who they BUST their ASS for _ Sometimes they don't like to WORK for people they dont like _ Chris is a complicated kid - He is not a bad kid and sure as hell doesn't need a bunch of diehard has been UNLV fans diminishing his incredible achievements.
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One other point. I have never liked Jason Kidd as a coach. Because when starting back in January CW put up big numbers and averaged 21.1 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.5 assists, and 2.3 blocks in 34.2 minutes per game. Then Kidd decides to starts Javale McGee and Dwight Powell and the Mavs missed the playoffs after making the Western Conference finals the year before.
No kidding! A poor work ethic doesn’t post “21.1 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.5 assists, and 2.3 blocks in 34.2 minutes per game” in the NBA when starting this year.
