We are paying more and more per year per win. And very much more per quality win.
Consensus of TJ as a coach?
- Thread starter ketelmeister
- Start date
Just checking, are you calling the Utah St win the only quality win this season? I would have though K State was but they have had a bad season for them.
Sadly, the Utah St. win is our only top 200 win this year so far. K State is just 5-18, but considered our 2nd best win lol.
K state was a known very bad team heading into the season. And they’ve played as predicted.
Yes, the USU win was our “good win”. And they may be just an NIT worthy team.
We’ve had to redefine terms to describe quality just to keep our sanity. Watch, when we end up 9-7 this season, some of our fans will consider that “pretty good” even though we avoided SDSU.
On Otz,
Collins situation really hurts, I hope he realizes Coleman is not the answer for next year. He has to realize Wood/Grill just aren't good enough, and both of them are starting.
If Hamilton/Diong return with Jenkins/Blake, I can live with them 4, Tillis has been the 2nd best Freshman, he's very smart, just not very athletic, but in MWC, he's serviceable, so add Coleman, you have 6 players, and Freshman kid AW, is still coming, that leaves 7 players and the rest you can say good bye too.
MWC: Is Putrid:
Outside of Aztecs who beat UCLA, very good win now, and ASU, they stink, there is nothing on MWC win total.
MWC may be top heavy with ordinary teams, but the from 5-11, conference just stinks, anyone of you remember back in late 70's and early 80's at the Silver Bowl and nice breeze from Las Vegas Wash would be smelled, that's the MWC and worst.
Collins situation really hurts, I hope he realizes Coleman is not the answer for next year. He has to realize Wood/Grill just aren't good enough, and both of them are starting.
If Hamilton/Diong return with Jenkins/Blake, I can live with them 4, Tillis has been the 2nd best Freshman, he's very smart, just not very athletic, but in MWC, he's serviceable, so add Coleman, you have 6 players, and Freshman kid AW, is still coming, that leaves 7 players and the rest you can say good bye too.
MWC: Is Putrid:
Outside of Aztecs who beat UCLA, very good win now, and ASU, they stink, there is nothing on MWC win total.
MWC may be top heavy with ordinary teams, but the from 5-11, conference just stinks, anyone of you remember back in late 70's and early 80's at the Silver Bowl and nice breeze from Las Vegas Wash would be smelled, that's the MWC and worst.
Wood and Grill would be good if there was a good passing offense or a threat inside or a point guard who could break down a defense. They really can shoot if they are open.
I agree on that offensively, however both of them especially Wood cant defend at all and too soft.
Both of them are back end kids, should never start unless it senior night.
Eh ... dunno about that just yet. I tend to agree with you more on Wood than Grill ... but I think you underestimate their experience... do I think they will be stars? No. But they are sophomores. And with as much time as they are getting, if they do ramp up, it’ll be much more than if they played typical sophomore minutes.
If they are around as seniors, they’re going to have a much better game and feel.
I think Grill can still be pretty good. And I do think Wood could be a solid contributor. You aren’t going to the S16 on their backs or anything ... but you do need players like this, imo.
From las vegas sun after Jenkins signed:
Target 2020
With Jenkins on board, UNLV appears to have a plan in place to qualify for the NCAA tournament — or at least make a strong run at it — in 2020-21.
Whoops!!!
Target 2020
With Jenkins on board, UNLV appears to have a plan in place to qualify for the NCAA tournament — or at least make a strong run at it — in 2020-21.
Whoops!!!
Yes they are going to be good roll players. Otz brought in 3 transfers . If he leaves are they allowed to transfer again without sitting out? Just food for thought. I went on the Iowa St board and a few of the "insiders" are acting like it is a done deal. TJO and staff NOW have relationships with the WHOLE VEGAS recruiting circuit ! We could lose a lot of players and potential ones to him if he leaves and gives him another edge if they interview him on top that they love him there and he is tight with the AD. There is nothing else exciting to talk about so.......!
BTW i do think OTZ is a above average coach. I think almost everything that could go wrong DID. Somethings he should take responsibility MOST no. If we had Long and/or Coleman this year and we have maybe 3-5 more wins and a handful of CLOSER losses. They both bring leadership. The optics would not be so bad as it is now. Throw in a Quality low post player and we would be in the TOP 3 in the MWC. I think OTZ had BIG 12 written all over him, as in where his heart is and personality. IMO
If Otz leaves, I'm truly worried about who DRF will hire to replace him. I wonder who some realistic candidates would be. We know UNLV won't hire a big name, so who does that leave? Pasternak? Another run at Moser? Casey Alexander? Joe Golding? Bryce Drew? An assistant coach somewhere?
Mike Miller. That is the only person i want. Unless you go after some TOP TOP recruiter. Would be a HUGE injection of life into this program.. That is what we need desperately. We would more than likely have some growing pains but at least it would be with elite talent. Enough to compete for the MWC. No matter who we get they will get poached. Unless your name is Dave Rice or Augmon . That ship sailed years ago. Miller would be able to keep some of the players we have now and sign some really good ones.
Their AD would be insane to front the cash to buyout Prohm and Otz to hire a coach that is hovering around .500. Prohm has an annual salary of 2.3 million a year and is under contract until 2025. He did finish strong last year and lined up a solid recruiting class to come in for 21-22, but boy did he fumble this years roster construction. What does Otz actually have going for him outside of fan support at ISU. I know he was an assistant there; booster ties? AD connection?
That’s my fear too. If we know DRF is going to dig deep through all the bottom feeder leagues to find another young up and coming coach we’re probably going to be bad for a couple more years while we’re hoping this new guy can figure it out. We’re already at 8 years since our last NCAA appearance. I don’t know how many fans will be left by that point. I’d probably rather have Otz just to see if he can put it together next year. If he’s not the guy I’d rather have our next AD make the hire. I don’t think DRF should get to make another hire.
Last edited:
DRF better start worrying about her future if she wants P5 school, because most P5 schools winning matters, and so far her hires stink. We will see on Arroyo in 2 years, year 3 should be the year we see huge improvement in the football program or else. On Otz, can can't recruit his system and that tells me something, unless he thinks what he did at South Dakota St will work with the recruits he is recruiting?
Otz isn't leaving. He has two strikes against him. One, he' been revealed as a mediocre coach who benefitted in the past from inherited players but can't make a team of his own. Two, his buyout is too big - there are too many coaches that will be available for a lower/ or no buyout. Huge programs where $ 3 million doesn't make a difference have their choice of coaches. Smaller programs won't waste the $$ on Otz unless he brings us to some glory.
We're understanding why South Dakota State fans weren't that upset Otz left when he did.
We're understanding why South Dakota State fans weren't that upset Otz left when he did.
Fans weren't all that upset when Lon Kruger left either. Fans aren't exactly the most rationale lot.
In 2010, I wasn't as in tune with rest of the fandom as I am now, but I don't remember it that way. I remember a lot of people being angry and disappointed, thinking it was an April Fool's joke...
We also had something like 25 + pages of comments on speculation and wondering if it was true and hopes who the next coach would be.
This reminds me. Will SDSU want to make up its games against UNLV? I assume not because it's not a guaranteed win (even though it is likely that SDSU would win). They also have other games to make up against CSU, UNR, and UNM. I would guess CSU wants to make up its UNM games, but that's it.
Is there any known chatter about what this will look like? For us, it might be nice to play Wyoming. No guarantee that they are both wins, but beating Fresno both times and possibly picking up two with Wyoming (if UNR plays and loses) could get us to the 5 seed.
Sounds like if it potentially hurts the top, it won’t be played. Not sure yet though.
It’s a pussy way out for the league. I understand it but don’t like it. It’s like rooting for the best team in the league to have injuries to their top three players so you have a better chance. It’s weak.
We have 12 blank days before the tournament. Get everyone to Vegas. Skip two days. Day 10, you can have 4 games .... MWCT quarterfinal times (10, 12:30, 4 and 6:30), 8 teams. Day 8, 4 games, 8 teams. Day 6, 4 games, 8 teams. Day 4, 4 games, 8 teams. Still four days before the tournament. Everyone gets their games in. Time before the MWCT. Teams already here and adjusted.
Anybody knows which team missed the most games and how many total league games lost? It’s very doable. It’s not like Disney on Ice or U2 is occupying the Mack.
I remember it as a divided fan base. Some were glad he was leaving because they felt he was not adequately intense in the recruiting arena. Others felt he was a good coach but we had reached our peak with him. Lastly, there was a group that flat out liked him and thought we should do what was necessary to keep him.
It was divided for sure. There was no consensus.
That last season, a lot of things came to a head even before the Illinois debacle. He lost some very important support. Obviously, a lot of fans couldn’t believe it.
I think we needed to kick it up a notch with recruiting, rely less on transfers even though some paid off. We needed to get some of the top guys at Findlay and that just wasn’t happening. Without that, we were hurting our heads on the ceiling, imo.
Earlier posts talked about AD making bad hires. I disagree. Women's basketball is very good, but took a long time to let prior gal go. Football, home run as far as I see. Great qb coming from Hawaii, transfers are coming, and bright future. As many of you have said, Otz is a slashing forward away from winning. I have watched Michigan, Illinois, Ohio State run the basic pick and roll offense with the stand around guards for the last couple of days. Otz offense is better when you compare. It is more involved when the players run it. The Zags are the best, Baylor is next but just a slash and dish offense with superior athletes. I think people have to consider, "Why would someone play ball at the T & M." Menzies screwed it up by playing patsies as did the rest of the league. To get better athletes, we have to schedule tough opponents. Easier said than done, but the Maui T was a good start. We don't know how many players said "NO" to the staff. UNLV has no academic money so that enters the picture when you are recruiting 3*'s. Arroyo can do it because the Raiders are here and he has a stadium. Otz doesn't post who is offering to and keeps it close to the vest. I say, "Lets see what happens".
I agree, but issue otz hasn't recruit kids who can break down a defender and create, both Grill/Wood should not be starting, just roll players at best.
They would BOTH be so much more effective if we had a few guys that could break down the defender and some GOOD inside presence that could/would pass out of the post. Every team needs a spot up shooter. It would also open the lanes for them. We are to easy to guard.
Home run? Seriously? I don’t count the first season for squat, but 0-6 and not even a little bit competitive?
If you are going by recruiting rankings, maybe. But football recruiting is even more tenuous than basketball recruiting because typically in football, unless it’s skill positions, they’re on a shelf for a couple of seasons.
And we are certainly more than a slashing forward away from winning in hoops, unless you count finishing in the top 5 of MWC play as winning. When is the last time we had a prototypical slashing forward? Derrick Jones? 4 star. He’s in the NBA. That’s just not an easy recruit to get. Before that? Marion? Lottery, NBA All Star/superstar fringe.
You make it sound like it is easy and we are close. It’s not easy and we aren’t close.
Your right, but I watch a lot of games where it is stand around waiting for the pass. Great jumpers like Wichita State, Houston, Louisville have populate the middle west and south. We need to strengthen our ties to those basketball hotbeds. We don't have the money so Otz took fliers on Wood and Tillis. My real problem with this team is conditioning. With conditioning you can improve jumping ability, second jump stamina etc. It is not all DNA, some of it is just hard work and desire to get bigger, faster, stronger. Hamilton's jump shot has mechanical problems, he shoots it with a flat hand. No finger control and no arch. Lindsey's is much better but his hs films showed he is a catch and shoot guard with no hops. That is why Wisconsin liked him but he couldn't get to the rim so they passed. Next years team will be a lot better with just the two recruits we landed. More to come, I suspect. It is not the offense, it is the lack of practice, Covid crap, no fans, stupid schedule etc. Just as in football, I see this as an extended practice session, not a real season.
I looked for Otz to Iowa St rumors but could not find them. I saw articles on smaller college head coaches and top assistants(including Kevin Kruger) as possible targets, Otz was not mention What was the source of those rumors? Do we know if Otz staff recruiting hard for Unlv or not? BTW, Kansas St just beat #7 Okla. So UNLV win vs K State looks a little better.
Go to the Iowa State sports message boards. There is discussion there. Some fans want him - but I think a higher percentage doesn't. Most think existing coach stays for at least another year. They just extended him las year.
Cyclone frantic. One or 2 of the insiders. The ones with TONS of likes. Said he WILL be the next head coach. Maybe it does not happen but i tell u that if we had a healthy Coleman and a quality bigman won 3-5 more games it would more prevalent !
Last edited:
There has been a good handful of HIGH quality in the MWC and WAC as in the WHOLE league. We just need effective ones. Does not need to NBA quality to be effective in the MWC. Look at Boise St and SDSU and even Wyoming they all have multiple slashers. Maybe not ALL the prototypical forward but guards that can do that.
Quite a few posters on the ISU boards disregard Otz record here saying that our program sucks so bad it would take a miracle worker to get it back.
OF course you will never get a consensus. Otz had a ton of bad breaks this year most out of his hands. I think he is a good coach. Roster construction was on him. I do think he overvalued some of the guys we signed or thought he could coach them up enough. China virus prevented that. We did have 9 new players. Strong ties there.
But that is a large part of coaching, probably the very most difficult part at the college level. The X’s and O’s are by far the easier part of the game. In game decisions aren’t difficult either ... who to play, who to pull, when to call a timeout ...
Getting good players, getting them to focus and stay focused/ buy-in, overall roster construction, outside noise ... that’s far more difficult. The only part away from the X’s and O’s is conditioning. It’s whatever you demand, you control the level.
I think it’s incredibly difficult to be high quality coach without controlling the second part to a high degree. You can suck at the first part and manage the second part and be a really good team. You can be amazing at the first part and be poor with the second and you’ll struggle.
