We are in bizness

[j. spilotro]

UNLV had a few really bad loses during the beginning of the season, but also had a bunch of good wins and did well within conference play. I think UNLV was a lot closer to making the NCAA, but had already shut the door because of those few bad loses. Kruger can't afford to have any of those bad loses, and if the team plays at the same level as last year within conference play, Air Force game being the exception, I think they are likely to make the NCAA tournament this next season. If Kruger and the team do not make the NCAA, I agree that it would likely end his career at UNLV.

Agreed. You better hit the ground running, have your foundation firmly formed before the season starts and then hone it. We were so awful it made you wonder if the team got together over the summer. They were way behind and played ugly. And it’s not because it was a difficult system to digest, it’s the basics. While I do agree that it takes some time to gel, every team faces that. And it’s not like we were a little off early. We were way tf off, so far off that 3/4 days in March became the goal before Christmas.

 

[Rebel_Luv]

If they do have success, I’d say it’s directly due to culture, expectations, accountability …

Where is ours? Do we see it being built? Or are we just doing plug and play and crossing our fingers?

The foundation is being set. I dont know how good it is ,but we got a huge core of young players. Only time will tell. Should of done this in year 1. I mean the fast build did not work either. CKK better hope his talent evaluation knocked it out of the park or he will be HOPEFULLY looking for a new job. Regardless i dont think he is the answer. I hope im wrong.

 

[Masked_rebel]

If they do have success, I’d say it’s directly due to culture, expectations, accountability …

Where is ours? Do we see it being built? Or are we just doing plug and play and crossing our fingers?

Given how many players we thought should leave vs those that stayed, Id say Kevins trying to keep a culture from last year together. I guess a guy like Cottrell who will now be in the 3rd year of Kevin's culture, and keeping Whaley, DTJ, Hicks, Hill, Bannabie all together gives some hope that hes trying to continue that culture found at the end of last year and into the NIT of defense, and playing through DTJ and playing together rather than 1 v 1. Feels like its a year too late and he should be focusing on having a roster that can make the tournament but if all those returning players can mesh with the young talent and Juco guys along with his transfer signings that also feel like role players then maybe it can be done... I at least have to hope thats the case as a fan but still be worried that we havent singed a high production guy that we really need and havent replaced the output lost through departures.

 

[LVRebel2000]

Not entirely sure about that. I think if the pay is right, for a certain segment of player, they won’t care all that much. But it’s not like UNLV has a leg up on NIL pay either.

It’s a bad scenario altogether. We don’t win enough to attract the level we want, we don’t pay enough to attract the level we want, if we get a player the level we want or he grows to the level we want, retaining will be tough because we don’t have the money.

While all those excuses/reasons may be valid, it’s the same for almost everyone else in conference and they seem to manage it much better.

SDSU got their heads poached off. Will they compete next year even though those are pretty bad setbacks? For some reason, I think they will.

So what's the solution then? If the university decides that they don't want to spend the money, whether on the coaching side, or NIL side (Yes, I know this isn't specifically university money at this point), then maybe we need to hire a system guy. They come with a price tag also, but hire a coach that runs a system that he would actually be able to recruit to, that isn't reliant on top level talent. This could be a hard nosed defensive/pressing sort of system, or a slow paced Princeton type of offense, or a 3's and layups only approach. But the key is this:

Whatever your system is, you have to be able to recruit to it.

At this point, I couldn't really tell you what UNLV's system is. Mostly man to man defense, but not much pressure. Also, offensively, we're not a fast break team, nor do we have a lot of shooters to know down threes. But what is the offense really looking for? Dribble penetration? Great post play (like Purdue)? I just don't know what we are or are trying to become.

 

[j. spilotro]

Given how many players we thought should leave vs those that stayed, Id say Kevins trying to keep a culture from last year together. I guess a guy like Cottrell who will now be in the 3rd year of Kevin's culture, and keeping Whaley, DTJ, Hicks, Hill, Bannabie all together gives some hope that hes trying to continue that culture found at the end of last year and into the NIT of defense, and playing through DTJ and playing together rather than 1 v 1. Feels like its a year too late and he should be focusing on having a roster that can make the tournament but if all those returning players can mesh with the young talent and Juco guys along with his transfer signings that also feel like role players then maybe it can be done... I at least have to hope thats the case as a fan but still be worried that we havent singed a high production guy that we really need and havent replaced the output lost through departures.

And what is the culture, the identity? SDSU’s is buying in and being tough minded regardless of skill level. And that’s carried over pretty well.

What’s ours, exactly? We had players quit, starters in fact, we aren’t especially focused (you don’t lose to AFA by 30+ at home), defensively was hit and miss, some guys don’t defend a lick … we aren’t up tempo, we aren’t in your face, I haven’t seen a tight bond/unity …. Don’t see a ton of pride (you don’t lose that many games to subpar teams at home in front of the home crowd)… do you see a team wide toughness? So what is our foundation, our culture? Partying?

 

[j. spilotro]

So what's the solution then? If the university decides that they don't want to spend the money, whether on the coaching side, or NIL side (Yes, I know this isn't specifically university money at this point), then maybe we need to hire a system guy. They come with a price tag also, but hire a coach that runs a system that he would actually be able to recruit to, that isn't reliant on top level talent. This could be a hard nosed defensive/pressing sort of system, or a slow paced Princeton type of offense, or a 3's and layups only approach. But the key is this:

Whatever your system is, you have to be able to recruit to it.

At this point, I couldn't really tell you what UNLV's system is. Mostly man to man defense, but not much pressure. Also, offensively, we're not a fast break team, nor do we have a lot of shooters to know down threes. But what is the offense really looking for? Dribble penetration? Great post play (like Purdue)? I just don't know what we are or are trying to become.

I wish I had the answers. Five years ago it’d be easier to answer because now we are in the mud with rent for play players. I think it makes it harder.

I do think recruiting to a style makes things smoother. Recruiting to a system. I think “best available remaining” can lead to problems, you might be forcing a round peg in a square hole.

His dad did have that. I wasn’t crazy about it aesthetically, I thought we were way too inflexible and defendable on the offensive end. But defensively they were sound. And that’s what LK hung his hat on. Even guys that weren’t strong defensively went all out on the defensive end, if you remember. There was no compromise.

Defensively, I’ve seen no hallmarks, no consistency. Offensively, it’s bland, it doesn’t create opportunities by way of the system. We don’t do the crush you on the O and D boards thing like Kansas State uses to to do make up for all sorts of shortcomings. What’s been our strength? It’s not home court; it’s not toughness, it’s not tough to guard, it’s not stopping people, it’s not speed/quickness, it’s not shooting … parts are parts are parts …

I really don’t think there’s any easy answer at this point unless you have the money. UNLV let too much time pass and muddled in mediocrity and a lot of things passed them by.

 

[LVRebel2000]

I wish I had the answers. Five years ago it’d be easier to answer because now we are in the mud with rent for play players. I think it makes it harder.

I do think recruiting to a style makes things smoother. Recruiting to a system. I think “best available remaining” can lead to problems, you might be forcing a round peg in a square hole.

His dad did have that. I wasn’t crazy about it aesthetically, I thought we were way too inflexible and defendable on the offensive end. But defensively they were sound. And that’s what LK hung his hat on. Even guys that weren’t strong defensively went all out on the defensive end, if you remember. There was no compromise.

Defensively, I’ve seen no hallmarks, no consistency. Offensively, it’s bland, it doesn’t create opportunities by way of the system. We don’t do the crush you on the O and D boards thing like Kansas State uses to to do make up for all sorts of shortcomings. What’s been our strength? It’s not home court; it’s not toughness, it’s not tough to guard, it’s not stopping people, it’s not speed/quickness, it’s not shooting … parts are parts are parts …

I really don’t think there’s any easy answer at this point unless you have the money. UNLV let too much time pass and muddled in mediocrity and a lot of things passed them by.

Agreed on all points. I think we're both saying the same thing. I'm curious as to what CKK is using to sell the program. Like, what's the recruiting pitch? Coach Dave Rice had a vision and then targeted the players and he had a great approach for selling those players on how they fit in to his vision. I'd really love to know what CKK's pitch looks like to potential recruits.

I totally agree on the round peg/square hole concept. UNLV first needs to have an identity and/or system, and then find the right players that fit into the system. Even guys like Coach Calipari have a hard time winning with just the best players. Every year, he basically gets 4-5 top guys, but with the exception of those ultra talented players like Anthony Davis, etc, he's not been able to consistently win in the NCAA tournament. UNLV has no where near the resources of UK, or the coaching of Calipari, so it doesn't make sense to try to just grab the best players you can, not knowing how well they will fit with the team.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Easy.. No...
Is there a way to do it. Yes. If it was easy, we probably wouldnt do it anyways, we like to do things the hard way here.
I imagine that it would take a huge overhaul and not make fans terribly happy to bring in a system guy that recruits for a specific system. Think how ugly it would look if we were winning games the way SDSU did a few years ago with scores like 47-42.. But in the end, if your product is wining m does it matter? Sure we as fans think everyone wants to play if fast and offensively pretty systems that flow and allow them to score tons of points, but if we as a program are all of a sudden 26-6 and winning conference tournaments or titles and making the tournament, would we not be happy as well, even if it was ugly?

 

[LVRebel2000]

Easy.. No...
Is there a way to do it. Yes. If it was easy, we probably wouldnt do it anyways, we like to do things the hard way here.
I imagine that it would take a huge overhaul and not make fans terribly happy to bring in a system guy that recruits for a specific system. Think how ugly it would look if we were winning games the way SDSU did a few years ago with scores like 47-42.. But in the end, if your product is wining m does it matter? Sure we as fans think everyone wants to play if fast and offensively pretty systems that flow and allow them to score tons of points, but if we as a program are all of a sudden 26-6 and winning conference tournaments or titles and making the tournament, would we not be happy as well, even if it was ugly?

Well, attendance the past few years has been pretty dismal, so clearly most of the fans are already relatively unhappy. I think UNLV has some good pieces for next season, but as with last year, how is the roster construction? Is CKK going to wait and see who we get, and then try to develop a game plan based on those players?

 

[rebel5280]

We are missing “key” pieces around DJ, we need two guys who can score the ball at all three levels and create space for the “step backs” off the dribble. I don’t care where you get them, portal, JC, or wherever but he needs to get two or what is going to be the point for keeping him another year?

Kevin needs to get these two guys or next year will be a slow “death march” through the season that leads to Kevin getting let go!

 

[Masked_rebel]

Lets go sign Saunders from SDSU with some NIL $... Their fans are falling apart on Social Media because the NIL money is decimating their program. Theyve now lost 72% of their scoring between grads and transfers...

 

[j. spilotro]

Easy.. No...
Is there a way to do it. Yes. If it was easy, we probably wouldnt do it anyways, we like to do things the hard way here.
I imagine that it would take a huge overhaul and not make fans terribly happy to bring in a system guy that recruits for a specific system. Think how ugly it would look if we were winning games the way SDSU did a few years ago with scores like 47-42.. But in the end, if your product is wining m does it matter? Sure we as fans think everyone wants to play if fast and offensively pretty systems that flow and allow them to score tons of points, but if we as a program are all of a sudden 26-6 and winning conference tournaments or titles and making the tournament, would we not be happy as well, even if it was ugly?

Winning is what matters. Lose with a palatable style is going to be better than losing in a slog. Because it’s really hard on the eyes.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

If they do have success, I’d say it’s directly due to culture, expectations, accountability …

Where is ours? Do we see it being built? Or are we just doing plug and play and crossing our fingers?

The latter it seems. The funny thing is we don't seem THAT far off if we could get one really good shooter/scorer and another contributor I think they would be in the running for the dance. But easier said then done I guess since we haven't landed sh!t.

 

[dcut03]

Players want to play in the tourney. The longer CKK fails to get there the harder it will be to recruit. The harder to recruit to harder to get to the tourney. And so on as the program continues to circle into obscurity. Picture the water flushing in a toilet.

Perhaps to some level. But recruiting has still been good compared to the rest of the conference.
Getting system guys that will stick around and not chase the NIL dollar could be a blessing in disguise.
Building with guns for hire primarily has not worked for us. It looks like we will have the most carryover year over year this upcoming season. Still a lot, with over half of our main rotation.

Again other MW programs can do it with "lesser" talent.

Personally I would like to have a good 5 guys of our top 8 be players that are here for 2+ years, with no more than 3 single year players, whether it is Freshman using us as a triple A club for a bigger program or transfer seniors, nor NIL shoppers.

Once we establish some consistency and a true style of play then we will be more attractive for higher end players. We have more capability to get higher level guys than the rest of our conference, but I think you have to pick guys that fit a system. We haven't had much of a system so far.

It is tough to build one with flipping your roster every year. And we played differently all 3 years since Kevin has been here.

But I think they are trying to utilize some of the stuff that worked last year moving forward. Having an inside presence, playing more traditional man with hopefully less switching (similar to SDSU), with DJ as what makes things go offensively. I'm am looking to share the ball more, more effective plays and screens off the ball to get guys open or create match up problems, you know all the stuff that the rest of the conference does to us.