I am in good shape, but if you have Fertitta money, you are talking change you find in the sofa money!
We are in bizness
- Thread starter lobbybuu
- Start date
My point is we don't have a billionaire fan/supporter. Sure the Fertittas have given us a huge gift and I am extremely grateful.
But they aren't fans, per se. Not like their cousin Tillman at UofH.
There is a limited amount of funds for UNLV sports. If UNLV ponied up 2 mil for a coach, it would likely hurt the NIL budget. UNLV would not be able to afford that salary themselves and would rely on booster support to supplement the salary. Our boosters do not have unlimited funds. Sure it could spark a bit more interest (depending on the name) but probably not enough to overcome the loss in salary.
and BTW 2 mil doesn't buy a lot a big names these days.
So a good coach but not a great name wouldn't put UNLV "well into the black" by default. It would put them at a bigger hole which would require more fan support to break even. It is hard to say what fan support would be.
Vegas ONLY supports winners. Way too many things to do then watch mediocre sports. If they are not going to invest then move it to the mendenhall have street vendors at least that would be a better environment. We have about 12,000-15,000 empty seats every game . If we just made a extra 20$ on 8000 of those its a extra 160,000 x 20 plus home games and that's a extra that's 3,200,000 extra a year . Not including putting us in a better light for P5 expansion (fingers crossed) if that time comes again and 100% it helps with recruiting . No BIG NIL MONEY is comming our way unless we hire a better more fitting coach. The return so far has been no bueno .Everything to gain by doing so and a lot to lose on a maybe (CKK) HC Not doing so is just assinie. Vegas has lots of flash let's put it to use.
Truth probably is that the majority of old Rebel fans have died off or completely given up and moved on. Banking on a huge influx of fan support from just a hire is a big risk and likely going to bite you in the ass. Doubling the payroll or more with a new coach can royaly eff the budget.
From a competitive standpoint, CKK is performing better than his salary. Top half in conference with bottom half money. Harper has a tough job, having to maximize what he has with a small budget. You know he wants to keep football going as his number 1 priority. He extended Odom a year without a raise, but you know he is hoping that football gets a bump in popularity to offer an bigger extension. So hedging his bets by keeping and not extending Kevin seems to have a financial spin to it.
Fans started to show up more towards the end of the year. I'm sure they are hoping there is a bit more carryover. Can't start another year with a thud though, that is for sure.
There as some decent games in the OOC already. Also more conference games which I think is a good thing, since some of our more well attended games were in conference ( mostly because we went on a roll, but you know what I mean). Fans see some value in MW games.
Rice had the Stadium at about 75% plus. Mostly younger crowd. Loyalty is out the window. From HC, students, players , fans and NOW NIL money. MWC games were attended better also because more opposing fans. Odom got a raise BTW. BIG RISK??? I would be willing to bet my right arm that we hire a WILL WADE or someone well respected in the CBB world that everything would fall into place. WW most of all. Side note my right arm is working at about 50% these days. This is like sticking with your favorite TV series after its gone down hill and u keep on watching it hoping it gets better. Something has to change. CKK would have to knock it out of the park to turn everything around next year. That is the only way things will get better. With the NIL money and drawing in recruits so that we are on their final 3-5. IMO. IF u dont try we will never know. It has not worked so far has it?
And we all know this ain’t happening with Kevin, just look at recruiting, he should have been canned already!
Pay, conference,
battlestar Galactica 1978 FOREVER!!
"Rice had the Stadium at about 75% plus."
Rice averaged @ 15,000 in the two years before he was fired.
How about 2024..
It’s a sinking ship @Rebel_Luv , shall I throw you a life raft?
I’m not going to another men’s basketball game in my life.
Perhaps. Salaries averages have gone up significantly since Rice's time. Not sure on his market value vs the rest of the MW. Kruger is basically is making what Rice did, so I'm guessing Rice was paid a higher relative amount compared to the rest of the conference. He made less than Lon did here.
Will Wade may be the exception in terms of potentially affordable coaches that could bring in likely very good results.
But even Will Wade, which would be an awesome get, still doesn't have the name power to automatically bring in fans. It would likely take a coach that has been to the final four to do that. Marshall comes to mind. But even we would likely cost 4 mil which likely cannot afford even with an influx of fans. Curious that Wade did not take another job this cycle. My guess is that he is biding time for another year to get another P5 job. So it is hard to say that he is even gettable for us.
As for Odom's raise? really not much of a raise. He is making the same as before next season, they tacked on another year that will top him out a little higher than it was going to top out previously. It almost helped UNLV more, since it raised his buyout clause. This extension was really just kicking the real raise down the road. If Odom performs like we hope, then a bigger extension is going to have to happen for us to have a chance to keep him. Which is possible btw. I am in the camp that thinks it will likely take a pretty good job, not just any P4 job to poach him from us.
I agree something has to change. Kruger and this staff have to do more and this team needs to progress. To me the first thing is eliminating the WTF losses, then adding more layers to the offense. 3rd is adjusting the defense for less switching down low which should help rebounding. I hope these things happen, because to me they are relatively fixable and addresses our biggest weaknesses.
I don't think what we have seen is as good as it ever could get with this staff. I acknowledge that is very possible, but I think that is a bad assumption. I also don't all of our faults we be fixed next year. I hope this is the case, but year to year progress does not indicate that will happen up to this point.
Red dress please. Oh wait, why the hell UNLV is a purple dress?
If a coach DOESN’T bring in fans right away by way of his name, then he sure as hell better do it by winning and/or style of play, recruiting - something that gets people talking. A no name that doesn’t draw initially will soon be forgotten if they are taking 4 years to reach a tournament.
Then again, a name, something substantive that offers up potential - success would be expected out of the gate, within a couple of years.
KK is in the midst of a “long leash” in that we are going into the fourth year, pressure hasn’t been as high as it had for others, and the fan base has been provided with little to nothing. Spoons seated was heated midway through year three and he called it quits. And he provided us with back to back NIT’s. Rice extended a leash because of recruiting and NCAA’s early on. But into midst of his 3rd year after an NCAAT, he was canned. Menzies had a shorter leash than Kevin. Bayno’s leash, he extended it with an NIT/NCAAT in years two and three. Rollie had a shorter leash than KK.
We’ve never had a coach miss the NCAA tournament for three straight years aside from Menzies and he was canned.
KK will either save his job with an NCAAT next season or he will be searching for work, imo. I’d rather have him save his job and move forward with the program but once again, not close to convinced with what he’s bringing in. I fear construct is going to be a similar issue. He’s not learning new tricks.
I am not sure I understand why everyone is talking about the bad recruiting at UNLV considering the class of 2024 is currently ranked 47th overall and first in the MWC? Is it based on the overall ranking that has UNLV in 77th and 2nd to SDSU in the MWC? Is it because UNLV is doing poorly with transfers? Just trying to figure out where the major issues are regarding recruiting? Is there any transfers that look like they will come to UNLV who can improve the class ranking? Whom could UNLV currently get that could boost the class?
We tend to do poorly with transfers. That’s a bit of a generalization, some work out fine. But when you think about it, how many contribute far lesser than what you actually expect going in. Once again, we will get predictions of newcomers averaging 12 points per game on 40% from three and it ends up being can’t defend, average 5 points on 31% shooting. We will get the bigs that are going to go for 12-7 and they go for 9/4. It seems like it happens more with UNLV than other schools but it happens here a lot. Why? Good question. But I seriously don’t think we’ve had an “all in”, “same page” unity for a long time. For whatever reason, too many “important” players just go off on their own and it’s not about team. To me that’s culture, and I think it’s sucked.
We have one “difference maker” and that’s Dedan. It’s good if the person you have that’s a difference maker is a point guard because they have the ball in their hand all game long. But he needs help. And the type of help we tend to get end up being the types that you want to occupy 7-11 on the depth chart, not 1-5, where they end up.
Biz is looking to start. Quite frankly, IMO that’s the problem because I don’t think he is better than Hicks who is quicker, a better defender and appears to have a better 3 point shot. With both being sophomores it’s a risky move to transfer to UNLV for him IMO.
Next….
Next….
Last edited:
We need other shooter(s) more than one!
As far as speed goes, Brooklyn Hicks is the fastest I have seen since Marion. I am hoping he learned to play under control. "Go fast but dont hurry" type of saying.
Your forgetting Marcus Banks!
Brooklyn has got ways to go to even begin to compare to MB!
End line to end line, Dickel was tough to beat. Marcus was really fast, too. He’s not close to that.
You're right, I got Marion and Banks years mixed up. Marcus 2003 and Marion is 1999.
Marcus would the latest "speedster" we had. Both Dickle and Marion was before Banks. I think?
Dickel from is freshman year to his senior was the most improved player unlv player I can remember. It will be very rare these days to see a player spend all four years in Vegas.
Bizjack back to Butler. All big east freshman, he would have been good here.
I agree that CKK likely needs to get into the tourney this year. In general I agree with that, though I am not the biggest fan of absolutes. Injuries can kill a season for instance, or other unforeseen circumstances. But a relatively healthy season that falls short will likely be it for him.
In terms of leashes? Well we just aren't the same program as we were with Bayno or even Spoon. It is different when you are 10 years from being a top program vs 30. Menzies was a desperation hire because he was one of the few that wanted this job at the time. Also Kevin has outperformed Menzies, so there is that. Look at their records against top 25 competition, let alone getting the NIT invite.
The idea that Kevin can't improve is just crazy. He had a good first year given the circumstances, he regressed year 2, but tried an approach that was unconventional and it backfired. Year 3 was his best year yet, had the most effective defense of his tenure.
Again back to the thought that we are too good to not go to the tourney within 3 years of a coaches tenure. That made sense 25 years ago, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago. But we are a different program now. A program with a reputation that they can't hold on to coaches, and not because people get upgraded. The job itself has a bunch of stank on it.
The closer you are to Tark; the more pressure to win. The pressure is minuscule now in comparison. Of the 3k fans that pay attention now, how loud are the ones who complain? Not at all. There’s very little pressure to win now in comparison. And you have more tools at your disposal to flip a team too, instead of getting stuck with players.
Sure he can improve. But do it already ffs. 6 teams make the NCAAT and we aren’t close to being one of them.
Players want to play in the tourney. The longer CKK fails to get there the harder it will be to recruit. The harder to recruit to harder to get to the tourney. And so on as the program continues to circle into obscurity. Picture the water flushing in a toilet.
Last edited:
Not entirely sure about that. I think if the pay is right, for a certain segment of player, they won’t care all that much. But it’s not like UNLV has a leg up on NIL pay either.
It’s a bad scenario altogether. We don’t win enough to attract the level we want, we don’t pay enough to attract the level we want, if we get a player the level we want or he grows to the level we want, retaining will be tough because we don’t have the money.
While all those excuses/reasons may be valid, it’s the same for almost everyone else in conference and they seem to manage it much better.
SDSU got their heads poached off. Will they compete next year even though those are pretty bad setbacks? For some reason, I think they will.
UNLV had a few really bad loses during the beginning of the season, but also had a bunch of good wins and did well within conference play. I think UNLV was a lot closer to making the NCAA, but had already shut the door because of those few bad loses. Kruger can't afford to have any of those bad loses, and if the team plays at the same level as last year within conference play, Air Force game being the exception, I think they are likely to make the NCAA tournament this next season. If Kruger and the team do not make the NCAA, I agree that it would likely end his career at UNLV.
Not sure... Their success has been in part due to a culture where guys played multiple years in the system and one guy broke out to lead the team in scoring.. Im not sure they have that piece on their roster. They really struggled offensively this past year and the portal players they've brought in havent replaced either the ones they lost or the ones who graduated. Does that mean they will step back, idk. Its a war of attrition and while they still managed to make the tournament last year, there were definitely signs that they were stepping backwards rather than building on their F4 appearance.
We had 3 5th year seniors that were major contributors from P5 conferences on our team in a weak conference. Now we have a bunch of 1st and 2nd year players Usually that a recipe for failure. If we want pedestrian results then CKK is your man. SDSU took years to build their brand under FISHER expecting anything close to that under CKK is a fools quest. Especially now that NIL money is around. There are a few things that go into NIL money coming our way. Winning , BRAND and Charismatic GOODHC, Yet here we are having top notch facilities, great arena ( when at 75%) and its Vegas and we continue to struggle. WE should be curb stomping everyone in the MWC. WE have the fastest car ,but we always finish middle of the pack. IT either the Mechanic (AD) or the driver ( HC) . Winning cures everything (mostly ). This off season is very telling as of now. It seems like we will be a farm system for other schools. Any success this upcoming season and our players will get poached. I will be shocked if DJ ( if keeps on improving ) is here his JR year.
DJ was never going to be here his Jr season barring some sort of loyalty or very successful run.. He was on borrowed time at UNLV and we all knew it when he signed here. So Im not concerned about being a farm team for the P5's thats the reality of mid-major life.
Im much more concerned that we arent able to win conference title despite or make the dance, despite the resources we pour into the program over time. I get we went cheap with Kevin, thats another hard lesson learned, but we committed money last year to those P5 guys and it still produced the same results. We had Bryce emerge in the past seasons and carry this team and we still didnt have any success. So honestly, sitting around and landing players that we all go "meh, not exactly eye popping" might just be the approach we actually need. Younger hungry guys that are coachable or at the least competitive enough to want to win so they can get bigger $$ deals... Maybe its a strange approach, honestly seems like the players know CKK is on borrowed time and are being either more selective in where they are signing or are avoiding UNLV if other opportunities are available.
Im much more concerned that we arent able to win conference title despite or make the dance, despite the resources we pour into the program over time. I get we went cheap with Kevin, thats another hard lesson learned, but we committed money last year to those P5 guys and it still produced the same results. We had Bryce emerge in the past seasons and carry this team and we still didnt have any success. So honestly, sitting around and landing players that we all go "meh, not exactly eye popping" might just be the approach we actually need. Younger hungry guys that are coachable or at the least competitive enough to want to win so they can get bigger $$ deals... Maybe its a strange approach, honestly seems like the players know CKK is on borrowed time and are being either more selective in where they are signing or are avoiding UNLV if other opportunities are available.
If they do have success, I’d say it’s directly due to culture, expectations, accountability …
Where is ours? Do we see it being built? Or are we just doing plug and play and crossing our fingers?
