UAB

[willlevi]

Decided to look through and research the current crop of high school UNLV football commits, this has to be the least statistically productive group I can recall.
They have good athletic skills but only Mumphrey, Robinson and Beaudry produced great stats on the field but the class lacks depth among the carry the team type of game breaker types. Most of the players didn't really produce much as seniors.
Looks like the JC class has some immediate potential but the high school group will need some seasoning among the guys set to sign next week

In reply to Bull, this year New Mexico is more active and now has two local commits for 2019 so far.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I only see 7 on the roster from TX with two being graduating SRs. But only 8 guys from TX is a major fail for UNLV recruiting. With the very low population of recruits within the 250 mile radius of UNLV, we can NOT act like other programs that get the vast majority of their out of state recruits from two border states if we want to become equivalent to a power 5 program. Just look at what Boise State did under Peterson. He routinely had over 11 players from TX on his best teams and it's a hell of a lot tougher to get kids to go to Boise than to Las Vegas. Peterson also had more kids from Florida & Illinois on his teams.

Hey I just report the numbers. I don't do the recruiting.

 

[Sam-I-am]

I used other schools as an example. Not just Wyoming. If Minnesota is in budget for New New Mexico I'm sure a flight to Vegas is as well.

Which demonstrates that you are missing the point. Minnesota has a great deal more 2nd tier football talent than Las Vegas. Las Vegas is very low in that number compared to states like MN. That is why NM and most of the other non-power 5 schools don't recruit the 2nd tier prospects in Las Vegas. It's a waste of time and, mostly, money. That's also exactly why UNLV must get to those states for recruiting but we don't have the recruiting budget to do so.

 

[Sam-I-am]

I gave up at the end of last season regarding my hopes for football, and nothing changed until the last 3 games of the year. The last 3 games gave me a glimmer of hope. UNLV played 3 games against bowl bound games (with winning records), and should have actually won all 3. when is the last season UNLV was competitive with bowl bound teams?

2003 was the best year, otherwise only in 1994 was the last time against 2 teams with winning records (one of those was the bowl game). Then all the way back to 1984 when UNLV beat 2 teams during the regular season with winning records!


wins verse teams with winning records - lower division teams not counted)
2017 one win verse a team with a winning record.
2016 one win verse a team with a winning record
2015 one win verse a team with a winning record
2014 no wins verse teams with a winning record
2013 one win verse a team with a winning record
2012 none
2011 none
2010 none
2009 none
2008 none
2007 one win verse a team with a winning record
2006 none
2005 none
2004 none
2003 four wins verse teams with a winning record - only year with multiple wins verse teams with winning records!
2002 one win verse a team with a winning record
2001 one win verse a team with a winning record
2000 one win verse a team with a winning record - year we won a bowl game! bowl team we played ended up 6-6
1999 one win verse a team with a winning record
1998 none
1997 none
1996 one win verse a team with a winning record
1995 one win verse a team with a winning record
1994 two wins verse teams with a winning record - one of the two wins was the bowl game!
1993 none
1992 one win verse a team with a winning record
1991 none
1990 none
1989 none
1988 none
1987 none
1986 none
1985 none
1984 11-2 team that won bowl game last time won 3 games including the bowl game against teams with winning records.

Now that's some fine work. Wish I could give it a 10000000 likes.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Which demonstrates that you are missing the point. Minnesota has a great deal more 2nd tier football talent than Las Vegas. Las Vegas is very low in that number compared to states like MN. That is why NM and most of the other non-power 5 schools don't recruit the 2nd tier prospects in Las Vegas. It's a waste of time and, mostly, money. That's also exactly why UNLV must get to those states for recruiting but we don't have the recruiting budget to do so.

Man.

Follow the conversation...

Will said teams don't recruit Las Vegas because it's to expensive. It's not in the budget. It's to out of the way.

I don't think that is necessarily the case.

You don't fly over Las Vegas to go to Minnesota if you're on a tight budget for recruiting. It's cheaper to travel here. Football is typically much more region oriented than basketball. College basketball coaches have the luxury of all the AAU traveling teams basically coming to them. Football typically recruits a particular region and then have a few pipelines into more distant states. Those occur because of ties a head or assistant coaches build over the years.

Cal schools recruit Cal/AZ and then have pipelines into places like Texas. Texas schools recruit a ton of Texas kids and then surrounding states. They might have a pipeline into Cal and grab a couple Florida dudes as well. But predominantly Texas schools recruit Texas and surrounding areas. Alabama recruits Alabama, and Louisiana along with Florida. They grab a couple Texas and Cal kids.

I never once mentioned Vegas' wealth or dearth of talent, other than to say it appears to be top heavy, with a large amount of the talent here concentrated at 4-5 schools.

Will and I have had this discussion numerous times.

The gist of it is, Will believes Las Vegas is vastly underrated and has a lot of undiscovered talent.

I'm not arguing the legitimacy of this stance, other than to say, I think Vegas has more talent than its given credit for, but not nearly as much nor is it as deep in talent as Will believes.

If you want to debate Vegas' level of talent, take it up with Will. You are arguing it's a waste of money to come here.

I'm arguing that Will's stance that budget restraints or that Vegas is somehow a difficult trip for D1 schools in surrounding states to make doesn't hold water. Not when those same schools are making trips to further and in a lot of cases more rural/expensive destinations.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Man.

Follow the conversation...
....

You don't fly over Las Vegas to go to Minnesota if you're on a tight budget for recruiting.....

Oh, I'm following along quite well thanks.

It's too expensive because it's a waste of time and money for NM. There are only a few 2nd tier prospects in Las Vegas and those kids aren't likely to go to Albuquerque. It's not a waste of time for NM to go to MN because there are so many 2nd tier prospects in the state of MN, many of whom might like to travel out of the frozen tundra to Albuquerque.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Oh, I'm following along quite well thanks.

It's too expensive because it's a waste of time and money for NM. There are only a few 2nd tier prospects in Las Vegas and those kids aren't likely to go to Albuquerque. It's not a waste of time for NM to go to MN because there are so many 2nd tier prospects in the state of MN, many of whom might like to travel out of the frozen tundra to Albuquerque.

So you are arguing it's a talent issue not an expense issue.

If Vegas was viewed as having more talent, then the more economical move would be to come to Vegas vs traveling further away.

Which I have alluded to.

Again I think Vegas is maybe a little deeper in talent than it is perceived nationally. I do not think it is as deep as Will has stated.

Like I said. Take up Vegas' perceived or actual lack of talent with Will.

He will disagree with you vehemently.

I'm not.

Will is saying its purely budgetary as in, Vegas is to expensive for schools to recruit. He says they are missing out on tons of talent.

I've never made that claim.

 

[Sam-I-am]

So you are arguing it's a talent issue not an expense issue.....

It's both. It's too expensive because the quantity of 2nd tier talent is so low in Las Vegas compared to the Minneapolis/St. Paul Metro area. Not only do they have over 3.6 Million people living there, they have far more youth playing football in that Metro area than we do in all of Nevada. So what's more economical? A $180 round trip flight to Las Vegas to meet with 3 or 4 prospects who might want to move to Albuquerque or a $300 dollar flight to Minneapolis/St. Paul where you can meet with a couple of dozen prospects who actually might want to get out of the frozen tundra to play football?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

It's both. It's too expensive because the quantity of 2nd tier talent is so low in Las Vegas compared to the Minneapolis/St. Paul Metro area. Not only do they have over 3.6 Million people living there, they have far more youth playing football in that Metro area than we do in all of Nevada. So what's more economical? A $180 round trip flight to Las Vegas to meet with 3 or 4 prospects who might want to move to Albuquerque or a $300 dollar flight to Minneapolis/St. Paul where you can meet with a couple of dozen prospects who actually might want to get out of the frozen tundra to play football?

I just said if talent level were the same then they would come to Las Vegas as it is easier to get here, closer proximity and cheaper.

So it's not both. One clearly leads to the other.

Your argument is the talent level here is lower so coming here doesn't make fiscal sense.

I 'm not arguing that.

I've repeatedly said to Will it has to be more than just about the money.

If all things are equal coaches are going to recruit within a closer proximity. Barring a few established pipelines.

You're saying they are not equal. That Vegas lacks depth in terms of talent.

I never argued talent levels.

Take that argument up with Will.

 

[Sam-I-am]

...
So it's not both. One clearly leads to the other.
.

Nope. It's the combination of the two that make it less economical.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Nope. It's the combination of the two that make it less economical.

No. If talent is the same you would recruit closer. There would be no need to travel further and spend more money.

Your assertion is the talent is not the same therefore the need is to look elsewhere as that would save money.

Cause and effect..

 

[willlevi]

I agree with Sam and that is a major factor in cost effectiveness but there is a lot of second tier talent.
I see no likelihood of the process changing with UNLV recruiting regardless. Its been the same for decades. With the new facility, the goal is still to draw in as many out of state prospects as possible.
Now they need to recruit the 25 players per year that can take up the 50 spots on the two deep depth chart being capable of providing the talent to win games consistently.

 

[willlevi]

No. If talent is the same you would recruit closer. There would be no need to travel further and spend more money.

Your assertion is the talent is not the same therefore the need is to look elsewhere as that would save money.

Cause and effect..

Anytime you have to hop on a plane to recruit, there is no such thing as closer.
I will add, the state of Minnesota had 11 players sign with FBS programs last year with 5 signing with Minnesota
8 signed in 2017 with 5 signing witb Minnesota.
Nevada had 24 FBS signees in 2017 with 3 signing with UNLV.
In 2018 Nevada had 22 FBS signees with 3 signing with UNLV
Right now for 2019, 17 Nevadans are committed to FBS programs technically 18 if you add Everett with several holding offers uncommitted offers.
Minnesota isn't in the same realm of talent as Nevada or even Las Vegas.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Anytime you have to hop on a plane to recruit, there is no such thing as closer.
I will add, the state of Minnesota had 11 players sign with FBS programs last year with 5 signing with Minnesota
8 signed in 2017 with 5 signing witb Minnesota.
Nevada had 24 FBS signees in 2017 with 3 signing with UNLV.
In 2018 Nevada had 22 FBS signees with 3 signing with UNLV
Right now for 2019, 17 Nevadans are committed to FBS programs technically 18 if you add Everett with several holding offers uncommitted offers.
Minnesota isn't in the same realm of talent as Nevada or even Las Vegas.

Where did I say Minnesota had more talent than Vegas? Search through my posts and find it.....

The guy you're looking for is Sam.

Sam-I-Am is the guy saying Vegas is devoid of 2nd level talent and schools don't come here to recruit because there is no reason to and it's a waste of money. His take not mine. Take that up with him.

As for this hot take....

'Anytime you have to hop on a plane to recruit, there is no such thing as closer.'

You sure about that?

I'm pretty sure that an hour flight to the Bay Area is shorter than that three hour flight to Minnesota.

Vegas is 1 hour and 20 minutes from Albuquerque. Minneapolis is 4 hour flight. It's even cheaper than flying into most places in Cal.

An average flight Vegas to Albuquerque $75. Average Flight Albuquerque to Minneapolis around $350.

This really doesn't line up with your they don't have the budgets to come here..

 

[willlevi]

Where did I say Minnesota had more talent than Vegas? Search through my posts and find it.....

The guy you're looking for is Sam.

Sam-I-Am is the guy saying Vegas is devoid of 2nd level talent and schools don't come here to recruit because there is no reason to and it's a waste of money. His take not mine. Take that up with him.

As for this hot take....

'Anytime you have to hop on a plane to recruit, there is no such thing as closer.'

You sure about that?

I'm pretty sure that an hour flight to the Bay Area is shorter than that three hour flight to Minnesota.

Vegas is an 1 and 20 minutes from Albuquerque. Minneapolis is 4 hour flight.

An average flight Vegas to Albuquerque $75. Average Flight Albuquerque to Minneapolis around $350.

This really doesn't line up with your they don't have the budgets to come here..

New Mexico has two players from Minnesota. Senior Alex Hart attended the Lobo's football camp while redshirt Nico Bolden was an All-US Army Combine selection.
That indicates they were targeted specifically by those means rather than through recruiting trips through Minnesota

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

New Mexico has two players from Minnesota. Senior Alex Hart attended the Lobo's football camp while redshirt Nico Bolden was an All-US Army Combine selection.
That indicates they were targeted specifically by those means rather than through recruiting trips through Minnesota

Will take it up with Sam...He said Minnesota had more talent than Vegas not me...

New Mexico roster is littered with dudes from all over California.

You said schools don't have money to come here. Not in the budget.

I'm saying its BS and there is more to it than that when they are going on recruiting trips that cost more than it would to come to Vegas. Flights to Vegas are no more expensive than going into So Cal.

Vegas, if it is as talent rich as you say it is, is an ideal recruiting local because there are 32 schools in relatively close proximity to one another.

 

[Sam-I-am]

No. If talent is the same you would recruit closer.. ..

Talent is not the same, thus, it's the combination of both. It's as simple as 1 + 1 = 2

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Talent is not the same, thus, it's the combination of both. It's as simple as 1 + 1 = 2

No it is cause and effect.

You are moving the goal posts on the discussion.

I'll simplify it for you.

Will said Vegas is essentially Siberia nobody can afford to play here. Vegas rich in talent.

I said this is hogwash. There are MWC schools that recruit in far more expensive places to get to and further from them than Vegas.

This really isn't hard.

Yes

Or

No

Is it more expensive or costly for a school like UNM or USU to recruit Las Vegas vs the whole of California. Based only on ease and cost of travel?

The answer is no.

If you want to debate cost vs value of recruiting Vegas based on its level of talent take it up with Will.

That was not the initial discussion.

Now if you want to say the reasons teams don't come here as much to recruit based on talent, sure let's open that discussion.

This becomes a more analytical discussion:

Cost vs value and return.

In which case Will is going to vehemently disagree with you, link articles he wrote, and tell you Las Vegas ridiculously underrated in terms of talent but because it is a more difficult destination to reach than Tibet.

Have fun with it.

 

[Sam-I-am]

...
I will add, the state of Minnesota had 11 players sign with FBS programs last year with 5 signing with Minnesota 8 signed in 2017 with 5 signing with Minnesota.Nevada had 24 FBS signees in 2017 with 3 signing with UNLV.....

Will, you really should acknowledge that there is a huge difference between the 1st tier prospect and the 2nd tier prospect. NV's 1st tier prospects generally go to Gorman and they do it to get offers from Power 5 schools, at the least. The rest of the talent is minimal at best for a state with two FBS programs.
Once you do that, it would also help to accept the fact that the State of MN has 5.6 million people while NV only has 3 million.
Then look at the fact that there is only one major football program in MN while NV has UNLV & Reno.
It's abundantly clear that MN has far more 2nd tier talent than NV and that is where programs like UNLV have to be built from. It's also why most of the non-elite programs don't spend the money to recruit NV heavily.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Will, you really should acknowledge that there is a huge difference between the 1st tier prospect and the 2nd tier prospect. NV's 1st tier prospects generally go to Gorman and they do it to get offers from Power 5 schools, at the least. The rest of the talent is minimal at best for a state with two FBS programs.
Once you do that, it would also help to accept the fact that the State of MN has 5.6 million people while NV only has 3 million.
Then look at the fact that there is only one major football program in MN while NV has UNLV & Reno.
It's abundantly clear that MN has far more 2nd tier talent than NV and that is where programs like UNLV have to be built from. It's also why most of the non-elite programs don't spend the money to recruit NV heavily.

You are about to get inundated with Will articles and conspiracy theories...

I wish you well..

Did you know that when you get on a plane to recruit, no trip is closer than another?

I learned that today.

Modern planes are able to warp negating time and space.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Will take it up with Sam...He said Minnesota had more talent than Vegas not me....

Nope. That's not at all what I wrote. I said, and I repeat, that MN has more 2nd tier talent than NV.

NV has a lot of 1st tier talent per capita, primarily because of what TS did at Gorman before he took over at UNLV. Until UNLV becomes a program that is equal to a Power 5 level program, those 1st tier prospects are mainly going to leave the state for Power 5 programs, at the least.

 

[Sam-I-am]

You are about to get inundated with Will articles and conspiracy theories...

I wish you well..

Did you know that when you get on a plane to recruit, no trip is closer than another?

I learned that today.

Modern planes are able to warp negating time and space.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Nope. That's not at all what I wrote. I said, and I repeat, that MN has more 2nd tier talent than NV.

NV has a lot of 1st tier talent per capita, primarily because of what TS did at Gorman before he took over at UNLV. Until UNLV becomes a program that is equal to a Power 5 level program, those 1st tier prospects are mainly going to leave the state for Power 5 programs, at the least.

Yes exactly what I said.

Vegas is top heavy. With a heavy concentration of talent among 4-5 schools.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

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Pretty much.

 

[willlevi]

Yes exactly what I said.

Vegas is top heavy. With a heavy concentration of talent among 4-5 schools.

The correct term is that 5 programs tend to have a higher concentration of talent with the rest of the talent being dispersed at other 32 schools.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

The correct term is that 5 programs tend to have a higher concentration of talent with the rest of the talent being dispersed at other 32 schools.

How is that any different that saying Vegas talent is top heavy with 5 schools being significantly better than the rest.

The obvious conclusion then is that the remaing talent is dispersed among the rest of the Valley.