Pretty cool story.
Further proof it doesn't need to take a decade to rebuild things. UAB was hardly a powerhouse when they lost their program.
UAB
- Thread starter Bullmastiff 1
- Start date
Pretty cool story.
Further proof it doesn't need to take a decade to rebuild things. UAB was hardly a powerhouse when they lost their program.
Bull, you just gotta let it go man. CTS is coming back, probably for many years to come because we’ve got Armani to lead us to the promised land.
I’ll see you at spring practice.
I’ll see you at spring practice.
Just pointing out it doesn't have to take a decade.
At the rate this thing is being rebuilt I'll be cashing in my 401k and telling the cashier at Denny's they forgot to give me my seniors discount on my Grand slam breakfast. And my toast was burnt!
Using my old school local recruiting rants but its rare for locals to join the program and not become a starter whether walkon or signee beyond being undersized.
Two local quarterback were UAB signees after transfering to Alabama as seniors and dominating 4 years ago. UAB top defender & top pass rusher is Jamell Garcia-Williams out of Palo Verde with 42 tackles 15 5 tfl 9.5 sacks.
Alabama.
The state of Alabama has twice the population of Las Vegas at 4.8 million people and less elite high school programs.
Two local quarterback were UAB signees after transfering to Alabama as seniors and dominating 4 years ago. UAB top defender & top pass rusher is Jamell Garcia-Williams out of Palo Verde with 42 tackles 15 5 tfl 9.5 sacks.
Alabama.
The state of Alabama has twice the population of Las Vegas at 4.8 million people and less elite high school programs.
Good stuff Will. Of course Alabama has two SEC programs in state but that really doesn't matter when it comes to the quality and quantity of prospects in Alabama. The State is just loaded but so too is the 250 mile recruiting radius from UAB. Ours is absurdly pathetic in comparison.
The state of Alabama has 5 Star prospects nearly every single year under the 247 Composite Rankings and Nevada has had only a couple, mainly because of Gorman. This year we have zero but Alabama has two 5 Star prospects.
It's far worse as the star rankings go down. Nevada has only one 4 star prospect in state who is going to Michigan and he is the only one within the 250 mile recruiting radius of UNLV. Alabama has twelve 4 Stars within the state and there are 51 of them within the 250 mile radius of UAB.
And it keeps getting worse where the wheelhouses are for programs like UAB v. UNLV. With high ranked 3 Stars [those with over .8400 rating] we are in much worse shape than UAB. We have only 4 in state and just one more within the 250 mile radius. Alabama has 44 in state and and extra 51 in UAB's 250 mile radius.
It gets even worse after that but I'll stop there.
Several points are clear from these facts:
1] The slashing of the recruiting budgets in football must stop
2] We need to keep more of the local talent but expanding our recruiting on a more national scale is imperative. Get back to recruiting Texas and the Midwest more often.
3] Recruit more JUCOs like Bill Snyder did to turn KSU from the worst in the nation to a routinely Top 25 team.
4] Comparing us to programs like UAB has severe drawbacks we cannot be like them because we do not have their assets and they do not have our liabilities. .
1) We have 8 dudes from TX currently on roster. Which is pretty decent number. Majority of roster is comprised of CA/AZ/NV. CA will always be our largest pipeline based on proximity and population base. This is true of most schools. Football recruiting is far more region based than basketball.
2) Sanchez' history with JUCO's is mediocre at best. In fact it's actually quite bad.
Not sure this is an argument I would go with. If you want I can pull up every Juco Sanchez has brought in and their production, but I don't think you would like the stats. Mann was solid. And a couple others. But by and large the returns have been pretty poor if not just bad.
3) UAB doesn't have liabilities? They didn't have football at all. That's a pretty big liability. Imagine going to a kids living room.
'Hi Bobby I'm the coach of a program that doesn't currently exist' 'We have no history or tradition. We only made like 4 bowl games in our entire history before the program was disbanded.'
Pretty sure there are some obstacles there.
And yet a bowl game two years later.
Come on man. I get Tony has obstacles, but good lord the amount of apologia going on for the guy now is stunning.
He got his 5th year. He has his facility. He has a good recruiting class coming in. He's replaced all but three people on his staff. He has the stadium to sell recruits.
The excuse well is now officially dry.
Bowl or bust. Hopefully he gets there.
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Feels like basketball and football are running in parallel in many respects, don’t it?
Yep.....
I think Menzies has the right idea, but his roster construction has been poor. Replace one project big with a shooter or PG and results might be a bit better.
If Sanchez recruited/evaluated defense as well as offense this was a bowl team in year three.
Despite the tenor of my current posts, I was very high on Sanchez up until midway through this season.
I gave up at the end of last season regarding my hopes for football, and nothing changed until the last 3 games of the year. The last 3 games gave me a glimmer of hope. UNLV played 3 games against bowl bound games (with winning records), and should have actually won all 3. when is the last season UNLV was competitive with bowl bound teams?
2003 was the best year, otherwise only in 1994 was the last time against 2 teams with winning records (one of those was the bowl game). Then all the way back to 1984 when UNLV beat 2 teams during the regular season with winning records!
wins verse teams with winning records - lower division teams not counted)
2017 one win verse a team with a winning record.
2016 one win verse a team with a winning record
2015 one win verse a team with a winning record
2014 no wins verse teams with a winning record
2013 one win verse a team with a winning record
2012 none
2011 none
2010 none
2009 none
2008 none
2007 one win verse a team with a winning record
2006 none
2005 none
2004 none
2003 four wins verse teams with a winning record - only year with multiple wins verse teams with winning records!
2002 one win verse a team with a winning record
2001 one win verse a team with a winning record
2000 one win verse a team with a winning record - year we won a bowl game! bowl team we played ended up 6-6
1999 one win verse a team with a winning record
1998 none
1997 none
1996 one win verse a team with a winning record
1995 one win verse a team with a winning record
1994 two wins verse teams with a winning record - one of the two wins was the bowl game!
1993 none
1992 one win verse a team with a winning record
1991 none
1990 none
1989 none
1988 none
1987 none
1986 none
1985 none
1984 11-2 team that won bowl game last time won 3 games including the bowl game against teams with winning records.
2003 was the best year, otherwise only in 1994 was the last time against 2 teams with winning records (one of those was the bowl game). Then all the way back to 1984 when UNLV beat 2 teams during the regular season with winning records!
wins verse teams with winning records - lower division teams not counted)
2017 one win verse a team with a winning record.
2016 one win verse a team with a winning record
2015 one win verse a team with a winning record
2014 no wins verse teams with a winning record
2013 one win verse a team with a winning record
2012 none
2011 none
2010 none
2009 none
2008 none
2007 one win verse a team with a winning record
2006 none
2005 none
2004 none
2003 four wins verse teams with a winning record - only year with multiple wins verse teams with winning records!
2002 one win verse a team with a winning record
2001 one win verse a team with a winning record
2000 one win verse a team with a winning record - year we won a bowl game! bowl team we played ended up 6-6
1999 one win verse a team with a winning record
1998 none
1997 none
1996 one win verse a team with a winning record
1995 one win verse a team with a winning record
1994 two wins verse teams with a winning record - one of the two wins was the bowl game!
1993 none
1992 one win verse a team with a winning record
1991 none
1990 none
1989 none
1988 none
1987 none
1986 none
1985 none
1984 11-2 team that won bowl game last time won 3 games including the bowl game against teams with winning records.
Last three games were positive. No doubt.
But I disagree with ever using should have won or close wins as a sign of improvement (Hawaii).
The same could be said the opposite way. They won two close games they could have easily lost.
If you went on a Reno or SDSU board right now they are probably saying they should have won vs UNLV.
Works both ways.
That list says a lot about just how bad UNLV has been.
In Sanfords defense he had two wins over P5 teams. Winning record or not. Sanchez has zero.
Hauck caught lightning in a bottle. Won 7 games. Best win vs a 6-6 team. But 7 wins is 7 wins. A bowl invite is a bowl invite. Sanchez has zero bowl invites.
Truth is none of the three had results on the field that can be called anything but mediocre.
Again last three games were positive. Now do the three games before that.
And nothing wipes out the stink from the SJSU loss or the UNM drubbing coming off a bye week at home.
They also got drubbed by two bowl bound teams in games they were never actually competitive in.
So I guess the question is, did they suddenly figure it out at the end of the year?
Are they closer to the team we saw the last three weeks? Or the team that had more double digit losses than the previous season.
I'm done with having expectations or pointing to this or that as signs of improvement.
Reality is, you haven't done anything until you do something.
I guess we'll see next year.
Also again. Not the point of thread. UAB had no football for 2 years. Brings back program is in a bowl in two years.
It doesn't have to take 5 years to get things trending in the right direction.
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Will, for not having elite high school football programs, Alabama has 38 kids on the roster of the #1 school in the country.
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Liberty and Gorman are both national level elite programs, but it is hard to compare 3-5* players when those in Alabama get a lot more coverage. I expect we have a lot more quality players then are listed based on the ratings of rivals. It is hard for me to believe that we can have two top 25 programs and only have about 10 3* or above players in the entire state
Possible that population density has an impact? Vegas is what, 1st or 2nd largest school district in the country?
The counter to that would be almost suggesting coaches trying to protect million dollar a year jobs in AZ/CA/UT are purposely avoiding Vegas? Somehow passing over a gold mine of talent.
I'm not suggesting Vegas HS football is bad by any stretch. There's talent here.
Just not sure if it's over/under or properly rated.
Star rankings are 90% bases on who is recruiting you. If an SEC school offers it makes you a 4-5 star talent, especially Alabama. At worst you are a 3-star so the state of Alabama automatically will have more individual player with higher rankings.
Also, unlike the Big 10 and Pac 12, the SEC has lower academic standards similiar to much of the Mountain West thus they have less recruiting restrictions.
Of 25 Nevada players with 15 walkons/transfers, 12 made the two deep with 10 players earned starts this season.
I don't see a time when UNLV will follow the template of most elite programs that build their foundations from home but there isn't a lack of physical talent to develop. We still have one of the largest recruiting beds in the country in population-to-college football programs in the nation.
Because most recruiting budgets are built around regional recruiting, most kids in the state will be left on the board beyond D2 options just because most mid-major programs around the country can't afford to devote the budget. Nevada is out of recruiting range of 92% of FBS college programs in the country.
Nevada high school team have proven that football teams in the state can play with any region in the country in head-to-head competition.
How is UNLV recruiting in Florida and Texas with their limited budget, but P5 schools and other D1 programs can't take a trip to Vegas?
Las Vegas is absolutely not out of the recruiting budget for any number of P5 or D1 schools. It's a four hour drive for crying out loud from no less than 4 P5 schools. You could throw SDSU in there as well. It would take you that long or longer to drive across a lot of states.
With all eyes on Gorman. And the number of schools who send people to scout Gorman, I'm pretty sure they take note of other local players in those games. Along with hitting up other games in the city.
Last I checked Las Vegas has pretty sweet air fair deals. Something to do with entertainment capital of the world or something.
You act like Vegas is Pullman Washington.
The thought process that if Arizona, California & Utah doesn't beat UNLV for a player, they can't be good.
The same programs aren't battling UNLV for the players the team is recruiting in their own backyard either. Most of the programs also have academic restrictions that UNLV doesn't have.
The UNLV recruiting philosophy is strongly embedded in the staffing and fan base, so I don't expect it to ever change. Its still silly to see so much speed and athleticism go untapped yearly in the backyard of a struggling program.
I wish the city had a JC or D2 option. Too many immensely talented kids are forced to quit sports due to inabilty to cover out of state tuition after high school.
Garcia-Williams was a summer signee from the JC ranks that was on the verge of never playing football again when he signed with UAB. He had no takers, now he is on pace to be an NFL draft pick either this year or next season.
Arizona starter and former walkon DE Justin Belknap (Coronado) is also a out of the 2015 class. Both project as NFL prospects.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.un...arcia-williams-and-fish-mcwilliams-recruiting
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If you actually talk to programs, you would know.
Primarily Mid-Majors don't recruit Nevada. San Diego State, Utah St, Boise St and Hawaii are they only programs that recruit with open evaluation in the state.
The rest of the Mountain West schools don't recruit Nevada.
In the Pac 12, USC, UCLA, Utah, Washington & Oregon open evaluate.
ASU, Fresno St, San Diego St & Boise State are the only ones that open evaluate Northern Nevada
Only San Diego St and Fresno St recruit rural Nevadans but player specific.
The rest of the elite programs country only recruit specific players pre-identified but don't open recruits the state.
Beyond elite programs the SEC, ACC, Big 12 & Big 10 send zero coaches to Nevada. That decision isn't bases on potential talent, its that coaches are unfamiliar with the region, its beyond regional range & not cost effective.
I will add, there are 37 Southern Nevada high schools playing 3A and above. Trying to traverse the city for film and academic transcripts is a tall task. Most coaches don't make it past Arbor View, Gorman, Liberty, Faith Lutheran & Desert Pines before needing to fly back home
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Will-
1) You're arguing that Vegas kids can't reach academic requirements without realizing it.
2) You mentioned MWC schools not recruiting Vegas for budgetary reasons. Looking at Wyoming's roster they have numerous players from Colorado and Nebraska. Please tell me how it's easier/cheaper to fly into Colorado Springs and drive an hour to out lying areas in Colorado than Vegas. Better yet. Wyoming is passing over Vegas and scouring Nebraska for talent? You don't get more rural than Nebraska...Wyoming has dudes from all over CA but Vegas is just out of the budget?
3) Hauck commented on this once saying that local HS players turned their noses up at UNLV and not just the top end guys either.
4) You've beat this drum since Sanford days. Coaches, especially at UNLV aren't going to purposely ignore talent in their own backyard. Nobody takes a job and intentionally tries to set their careers back 5 years. Did Hauck recruit Vegas as hard as he could have? Probably not. But Sanchez has tried. We know that because multiple coaches in the area have gone on record in the paper saying they have seen UNLV on campus. That's not me saying it that is local coaches saying it.
5) UNLV hasn't given any top end prospects any reason to stay home.
6) Schools miss on prospects all the time. All schools. Garcia-Williams was a tall lanky kid in HS. His best attribute was his length. He's developed into a solid college football player. Some guys develop slower/faster than others. Good players slip through the cracks all the time.
Vegas has talent. Nobody is denying that.
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We been over this numerous times.
Again.
1) If UNLV is sending dudes to Texas, other schools can certainly afford to send people here. Or are you arguing UNLV has a better recruiting budget? Because I have been repeatedly told on this board by another person this money was cut. It doesn't exist.
2) Come on Will...The last part is ridiculous. Maybe they don't get past those schools you mentioned because they are the best schools in the valley? Maybe those schools have the highest concentration of talent. Plus you're essentially arguing it's easier to drive 4 hours across West Texas than it is to jump on the 215 in Vegas.
3) If you're actually talking to programs why aren't they listening? You know Vegas HS football. I'm asking seriously not in a smart ass way.
Also how many times do you hear about schools attempting to recruit Kid A and after watching film they notice Kid B from another school on the tape. That story is regurgitated damn near every week during the telecast of every game on TV.
I'm well aware of how many schools are in Las Vegas my wife is an administrator for the school district. I've also said at least twice now in other posts Las Vegas is the largest school district in the country.
We aren't/weren't talking about rural Nevada, we are talking about Las Vegas...Which you treat as if it is an impossible destination.
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There is what people believe should happen and what actually happens.
Its just the process, recruiting takes a lot of resource, time and coaches reshuffle every year. They don't beat new recruit paths, they will usually take familiar routes with people they know.
On question #3: In 18 years of making new connections every year and watching budgets adjust. Having kids of my own, I don't beat down as hany doors anymore. There is nothing wrong with a D2 option.
As for #2, Cormier is a Houston native and the Texas kids are generally from Houston.
The new Florida and Southern states connect is Tim Skipper.
Northern California kids are from where Sanchez grew up, played and coached. Gorman also recruits players from Hawaii to fill holes on the roster since they can't bring in local transfers.
Southern Nevada high schools have proven on the field they can compete with anyone from youth to high school on the field.
For your argument to hold water, you would need to have a lack size, speed and athleticism on the high school level. Thats simply not reality.
The reality is that they will keep need to find paths at schools beyond the borders of Nevada whether being large school or paying out of pocket at small schools
https://nevadaprepreport.rivals.com/more_news#/other-news
Since you like to bring up Garcia-Williams as proof/evidence that your scouting eye is full proof...And everybody else has no clue what they are talking about.
Let me remind you of the Ty Flanagan debate....For weeks you ranted and raved. This kids a beast! He could start as a freshman! You said Sanchex was finding guys under rocks in Texas when he had Flanagan in his own backyard. You said one player Sanchez recruited over Flanagan was just to small the other was to slow. Flanagan went to FCS Idaho State. Had his best season rushing with 600 yards and a couple TDs.
The runnings backs you felt he was so much better than were Lexington Thomas and Xzavier Campbell. You know the #2 rusher in UNLV history.
Your attachment to local players colors your assessment at times.
Again...
I just showed you Wyoming recruits kids out of all of California; Colorado and a number of guys out of Nebraska.
New Mexico has enough money in their budget to recruit multiple kids out of Minnesota, California, and Texas but cannot scrape the pennies needed to come to Las Vegas?
Please explain to me how it is within their budget to travel to Nebraska but not Las Vegas. Please detail how logistically it would be easier to travel around Nebraska, one of the most rural States in the US but Vegas is just to difficult.
Also..
What argument are you talking about Will? Where did I say Vegas kids lacked talent. I said Vegas had talent but a lot of it is concentrated at 4-5 schools. That argument holds a ton of water based on the records of those schools.
Will, you linked an article you wrote...
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Flanagan rushed for 832 yards with 8 tds with a total of 998 yards with 9 scores this year. He has 1587 rushing yards with 1967 total yard 20 tds sharing carries with a 1000 yard rusher.
This season Thomas averaged 88.9 per game as primary back with Flanagan averaged 73 yards per game becoming the primary back as a senior next year.
Flanagan averged 6.1 yard per carry this season to Thomas 5.0 despite playing in a misdirection offense.
No doubt that Thomas had a great career and is one of the best running backs in school history while Flanagan is on pace to be one of the best running backs in Idaho State history if he does what's expected as a senior next year.
As for the rest, that is New Mexico's decision.
He faced Vs FCS competition.
You can't even bring yourself to admit you were wrong about Thomas or to a lesser extent Campbell.
You said schools don't recruit here because of budget.
I showed two MWC schools that recruit in more rural places than Las Vegas. More difficult to reach. Probably more expensive.
Why would New Mexico and Wyoming pass on Vegas talent if it is obviously in their budget to come here?
You keep repeating a statement to make it true but history proves it is nearly impossible for Wyoming to have offers 0 non-Gorman kids and 2 from Gorman in the last 9 recruiting cycles. New Mexico offered 3 non-Gorman kids and 6 from Gorman since 2007.
Shadow Ridge linebacker Alex Toney was the last Nevadan signed by Wyoming in 2006. Since 2011, they offered Gorman's Nela Otukolo and Jabari Butler. Legacy's Deriyon Shaw 2016 had an offer before he transferred to Nevada. They did recruit the area pre-2010.
New Mexico did get a commitment from Desert Pines Tye Moore who camped at the school this off-season, he is the second kid to be offered by New Mexico in 15 years. They offered 6 Gorman kids since 2007.
Since 2007, they also offered three non-Gorman guys in highly recruited prospects Liberty's Brandon Yates (West Virginia), Desert Pines Tony Fields (Arizona) and Legacy's Randy Ricks (San Diego St).
As for the Flanagan vs Thomas/Campbell argument, they are all talented players. You feel comfortable in your opinion and I feel comfortable in mine.
With Thomas averaging around 3.0 yards per carry between chunk plays, his effectiveness per play wasn't of the elite category though he could scoot whenever he got a chance to sprint into the next level.
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Will-
What am I saying that isn't true?
I just posted current rosters of New Mexico and Wyoming. I didn't make up the rosters and where the kids were from.
They have players from Nebraska, Colorado, Minnesota and throughout California.
Back up your statement that schools don't recruit Vegas because they can't afford it but they have budgets to travel to those states.
How does Wyoming afford to send guys to Nebraska to recruit but not Vegas. Simply answer that.
If there is budget to recruit in LA there sure as hell is money to come to Vegas.
Why would they fly over Vegas to go to Nebraska?
It's a simple question.
And as far as Flanagan/Thomas..
Lexington Thomas ended up being a very productive player.
You said he wouldn't.
Just say I missed on that one.
It's not hard...
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McCoy started coming on this season a bit. I was a bit disappointed heading into this year though. He's a serviceable guy, but disappears in a lot of games.
I think your initial take on him was pretty accurate.
I only see 7 on the roster from TX with two being graduating SRs. But only 8 guys from TX is a major fail for UNLV recruiting. With the very low population of recruits within the 250 mile radius of UNLV, we can NOT act like other programs that get the vast majority of their out of state recruits from two border states if we want to become equivalent to a power 5 program. Just look at what Boise State did under Peterson. He routinely had over 11 players from TX on his best teams and it's a hell of a lot tougher to get kids to go to Boise than to Las Vegas. Peterson also had more kids from Florida & Illinois on his teams.
Wait. We can demand that TS improve on everything else but not in JUCO recruiting? Is there a posting rule book that I've missed?
Which is pathetic at best when all of the top talent that left the state is deducted. It is definitely one of the worst in the entire nation. It's next to impossible for UNLV to rely on Nevada talent for much more than a 3rd of its 85 scholies if we are even going to reach a power 5 level.
I'll answer for Will on that. Bohl is a Husker legacy who built up his recruiting contacts in Nebraska during their dynasty and then he built them up further with the 2nd tier talent in Nebraska while he was building the DII Bisons into a powerhouse. Now add in the fact that members of his staff are also well connected in the state and that they can drive to see those prospects on a routine basis in a state with much more 2nd tier football talent than NV and you have your answer.
This is my take on the best in the Nevada for the 2019 class excluding Junior College bounce-backs
https://nevadaprepreport.rivals.com...nevada-prep-report-prospect-position-rankings
https://nevadaprepreport.rivals.com...nevada-prep-report-prospect-position-rankings
He needs to improve in that regard. That was my point. Which I clearly stated. Based on his history with Juco guys I have reservations about him turning it around with them.
Does he need them. Yes. Will he get right guys? We'll see.
To many misses and non qualifiers vs production in the past.
I used other schools as an example. Not just Wyoming. If Minnesota is in budget for New New Mexico I'm sure a flight to Vegas is as well.
