Recruiting!

[Rebel1986]

I have been reading a lot on twitter and other locations that people don't think Sanchez is doing a good job of recruiting and that he should have also be gone because Menzies was fired, so I decided to go and look at how he has done in regards to recruiting and found he has actually done amazingly well.

Per 247 Sports all time top 25 recruits for UNLV, the following are recruits of coach Sanchez:
#3 Victor Viramontes
#7 Armani Rogers
#14 Jamel Hamm
#15 Johnny Stanton
#17 Travis Mumphrey
#20 Kenyon Oblad
#21 Alex Neale
#22 David Tate Jr.
#23 Justin Polu
#24 Charles Williams
#25 Jamal Holloway

So Sanchez has recruited 11 of the top 25 all time recruits for UNLV! Add to that two recent 4* transfers.

 

[Rebelious1]

I have been reading a lot on twitter and other locations that people don't think Sanchez is doing a good job of recruiting and that he should have also be gone because Menzies was fired, so I decided to go and look at how he has done in regards to recruiting and found he has actually done amazingly well.

Per 247 Sports all time top 25 recruits for UNLV, the following are recruits of coach Sanchez:
#3 Victor Viramontes
#7 Armani Rogers
#14 Jamel Hamm
#15 Johnny Stanton
#17 Travis Mumphrey
#20 Kenyon Oblad
#21 Alex Neale
#22 David Tate Jr.
#23 Justin Polu
#24 Charles Williams
#25 Jamal Holloway

So Sanchez has recruited 11 of the top 25 all time recruits for UNLV! Add to that two recent 4* transfers.

Who are the 4* transfers?

 

[ImmaRebel]

Coach Sanchez told me last week the two grad transfers who were looking at UNLV were from Power 5 Conferences, both were starters on defense, one from the west coast, and one from the east coast. Nothing was finalized with either one, and he didn't mention names.

 

[BleedRebelRed90]

Who are the 4* transfers?

Most likely he's referring to DB Alex Perry (transfer from ASU) and RB Biaggio Ali-Walsh (transfer from Cal).

On the "all-time" list in the original post, note that 247Sports "all-time" list only includes back to 2001 when the database started.

 

[Rebel1986]

Walsh is not a defensive player so that can't be who he is talking about, and Alex Perry already transferred back in 2018.

 

[Knight Rebel702]

I have been reading a lot on twitter and other locations that people don't think Sanchez is doing a good job of recruiting and that he should have also be gone because Menzies was fired, so I decided to go and look at how he has done in regards to recruiting and found he has actually done amazingly well.

Per 247 Sports all time top 25 recruits for UNLV, the following are recruits of coach Sanchez:
#3 Victor Viramontes
#7 Armani Rogers
#14 Jamel Hamm
#15 Johnny Stanton
#17 Travis Mumphrey
#20 Kenyon Oblad
#21 Alex Neale
#22 David Tate Jr.
#23 Justin Polu
#24 Charles Williams
#25 Jamal Holloway

So Sanchez has recruited 11 of the top 25 all time recruits for UNLV! Add to that two recent 4* transfers.

Recruiting is Not the issue it's the Development of the players or Lack there of! The same problem that plagued UNLV Basketball with CDR at the helm Recruiting Top 25 classes with little to No player Development,

 

[BleedRebelRed90]

Walsh is not a defensive player so that can't be who he is talking about, and Alex Perry already transferred back in 2018.

I was replying to Rebelious1's question about your original post. Those are the two recent transfers who would appear on the 247Sports list if transfers were included.

The two defensive players are potential future transfers. Hopefully we get both.

 

[Rebel1986]

The reason for my original post is that I have seen a lot of comments on twitter that Sanchez can't recruit, and the fact he has almost half of the top 25 recruits since the 2001 class (19 classes) says a lot. As for player development, he is under a directive this year by the AD to get to a bowl game, so he either does develop those players this next season, or he is likely gone.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

The reason for my original post is that I have seen a lot of comments on twitter that Sanchez can't recruit, and the fact he has almost half of the top 25 recruits since the 2001 class (19 classes) says a lot. As for player development, he is under a directive this year by the AD to get to a bowl game, so he either does development those players this next season, or he is likely gone.

Are you basing recruiting ability purely on what rank 247 or Rivals give a player?

If that is the case, he's done well. Better than his predecessor for sure.

I think there are more layers to it, but from just a *'s stand point he's done well.

Things like:

How has he compared vs other schools in conference.

Number of 'hits and misses' matter. Example David Tate before he transferred out looked completely overmatched at the D1 level during Spring. Holloway has yet to play any meaningful snaps to this point. I think you could call those misses. Then you got guys like Chuck and Polu who have been good....

 

[Rebel1986]

There is no other way to compare recruiting other then by the star rating system. If a player is a hit or miss on the team it may also have a lot to do with the coaching of the players, or the fact that the rating system was not correct. The bottom line is that if a team has a chance to get a 5* player over a lower rated player, 9 out of 10 times they will recruit the higher rated player. That is why the MWC NEVER gets any 5* players.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

There is no other way to compare recruiting other then by the star rating system. If a player is a hit or miss on the team it may also have a lot to do with the coaching of the players, or the fact that the rating system was not correct. The bottom line is that if a team has a chance to get a 5* player over a lower rated player, 9 out of 10 times they will recruit the higher rated player.

I think talent evaluation has to be factored in. What do your eyes not somebody elses tell you.

If it's just based on numbers he finished bottom half this year. Behind Reno...

 

[Rebel1986]

I never said he didn't finish in the bottom half this year. As for talent evaluation by the coaching staff, tell me how that can be included in information provided to the general public beyond winning games? Based on the recruiting rankings he was higher up the first three years of recruiting, and dropped off since but the simple fact is UNLV has always been at or near the bottom of the conference in recruiting class rankings in the past.. The class rankings also does not include transfer athletes. If a player at the level of Biaggio was included in the ranking, he would have been only second to Vic.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I never said he didn't finish in the bottom half this year. As for talent evaluation by the coaching staff, tell me how that can be included in information provided to the general public beyond winning games? Based on the recruiting rankings he was higher up the first three years of recruiting, and dropped off since but the simple fact is UNLV has always been at or near the bottom of the conference in recruiting class rankings in the past.. The class rankings also does not include transfer athletes. If a player at the level of Biaggio was included in the ranking, he would have been only second to Vic.

I just gave you an example.

Tate never saw the field.
He was highly rated.

Somebody missed...

Same goes for Holloway

Basketball example. D. Morgan was 15th ranked recruit in the country. Would you like to argue he was the 15th best player in the country?

 

[Gator 82]

Recruiting success is not based on stars, it’s based on W’s & L’s period.

 

[Rebel1986]

Go tell that to Alabama in football or Kentucky in basketball!

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Go tell that to Alabama in football or Kentucky in basketball!

Because they are elite. Recruiting services compile far more info on the top 100 than the next 100 and so on..

You think recruiting services have the same read on the top 50-100 players as they do on guys 500-600? There's no way they can.

I'll ask again.

Was D. Morgan the 15th best player in the country when he came out?

On that ranking list you provided. David Tate was 22nd. He isn't the 22nd best guy Sanchez has recruited much less the 22nd best player recruited by UNLV since these ratings started.

 

[Rebel1986]

Fine! You want to keep bitching about it, then come back with your own system. Until then, you are just looking like an idiot that wants to fight about everything. https://247sports.com/college/unlv/Sport/Football/AllTimeRecruits/

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Fine! You want to keep bitching about it, then come back with your own system.

I'm not bitching about it.

I'm just not overwhelmed by the recruiting.

He was 6th or 7th in conference this year. Middle of the pack..

That's based on the recruiting service you used for that list.

Is it bad. No.

Is it great. No.

Its been ok...

Better than before.

But still lacking a bit vs the rest of the conference.

He did a great job his first class. Woods, Presley, Lex, Campbell Alo-Wily, McCoy etc..

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Fine! You want to keep bitching about it, then come back with your own system. Until then, you are just looking like an idiot that wants to fight about everything. https://247sports.com/college/unlv/Sport/Football/AllTimeRecruits/

Who's fighting?

You posted a list of players and said look how great Tony's doing.

It's fair to point out that those ranking aren't the end all be all in determining effective recruiting.

By your rationale David Tate is the 22nd best recruit ever brought in by UNLV.

Do you believe that? Is that an accurate grade?

If we are going by your argument that these rankings are the only metric determing how good a recruiting class is or how well a coach is recruiting, then Norvell/Reno is out recruiting Tony. They had a higher rated class. Do you believe that?

Let's say the D-Line struggles this year. Tony lands the best recruiting class in the conference. But he also fails to land any impact DL guys. Did he do a good job recruiting?

We're in year four of defenses ranked outside the top 100 (Year 2 was in the 80's with a lot of left over Hauck guys). Has he done a good job recruiting that side of the ball so far?

I think you would have to say no...But according to your list he's recruited

Much like the NFL draft its difficult to truly grade/rank classes for a couple years until you see it on the field.

I think there is more that determines good recruiting than just *'s and composite rankings.

 

[tomrut]

David Tate never spent real time here. Didn’t he follow one of the coaches to Fresno state after just 1 redshirt season? So can’t really blame him not doing much here on Sanchez.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

David Tate never spent real time here. Didn’t he follow one of the coaches to Fresno state after just 1 redshirt season? So can’t really blame him not doing much here on Sanchez.

Tate was here two years, never saw the field.

He was having a rough time of it in Spring camp...Running with the 3rd team.

Holloway has been here three now and seen very limited action.

I see your point about not being able to control transfers though. So not totally Sanchez' fault in that regard.

 

[willlevi]

Most likely he's referring to DB Alex Perry (transfer from ASU) and RB Biaggio Ali-Walsh (transfer from Cal).

On the "all-time" list in the original post, note that 247Sports "all-time" list only includes back to 2001 when the database started.

24/7 Sports didn't exist until 2010
Rivals existed since the 1990s but restructured as Alliance Sports in 2000 before returning to the Rivals name in around 2005.
Scout has existed since 2002

 

[drmontehorne_a_yahoo.com]

Boys.... Opinions are just that. No one is right. No one is wrong. Having said that.....TS has done a great job of bringing some really good talent. However, not every good recruit pans out. Plan and simple. And, that is true at Alabam or UNLV....

 

[BleedRebelRed90]

24/7 Sports didn't exist until 2010
Rivals existed since the 1990s but restructured as Alliance Sports in 2000 before returning to the Rivals name in around 2005.
Scout has existed since 2002

Will, has the scoring scale shifted in recent years? When you look at the 247 list of "all-time" players for Nevada only 3 of the 8 who are ranked high enough to make the list are from before 2017:

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-F...ankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&State=NV

Also note that 7 of the 8 are from Bishop Gorman, and Tate Martell is not one of them because he ended up ranked well below teammate Tyjon Lindsey, although you wouldn't have known it from the hype.

 

[Rebel1986]

The list has nothing to do with how well they played, it was based on the ranking of the players when they were recruited. I understand that a 5 star player can become a complete bust, and that a 2* player can end up playing in the NFL.

 

[drmontehorne_a_yahoo.com]

The list has nothing to do with how well they played, it was based on the ranking of the players when they were recruited. I understand that a 5 star player can become a complete bust, and that a 2* player can end up playing in the NFL.

Agreed....As we have seen at UNLV.

 

[BleedRebelRed90]

Coach Sanchez told me last week the two grad transfers who were looking at UNLV were from Power 5 Conferences, both were starters on defense, one from the west coast, and one from the east coast. Nothing was finalized with either one, and he didn't mention names.

I looked at the transfer portal, and there are a handful of west coast P5 defensive transfers listed as "immediate" eligible, but none with obvious UNLV ties. But not all the grad transfers show up yet as immediate eligible.

One east coast guy that caught my attention due to the Skipper/Florida connection was:
http://www.onlygators.com/03/01/2019/reports-florida-lb-kylan-johnson-looking-to-transfer/
since he started two games last season and more in a prior season. He also doesn't show up as immediate eligible, but that linked article speculates he might be a grad transfer.

 

[Sam-I-am]

.... If a player is a hit or miss on the team it may also have a lot to do with the coaching of the players, or the fact that the rating system was not correct.... .

Plus there's the injury factor. Most of those listed who would fall into the "miss" catagory did so due to injury.

 

[Sam-I-am]

24/7 Sports didn't exist until 2010
Rivals existed since the 1990s but restructured as Alliance Sports in 2000 before returning to the Rivals name in around 2005.
Scout has existed since 2002

To be clear, it was Bobby Burton's Rivals' 100 in the 90s until 2000 when it became Rivals100. In 2001 it was changed to just Rivals.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Recruiting success is not based on stars, it’s based on W’s & L’s period.

Not entirely. Period

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I looked at the transfer portal, and there are a handful of west coast P5 defensive transfers listed as "immediate" eligible, but none with obvious UNLV ties. But not all the grad transfers show up yet as immediate eligible.

One east coast guy that caught my attention due to the Skipper/Florida connection was:
http://www.onlygators.com/03/01/2019/reports-florida-lb-kylan-johnson-looking-to-transfer/
since he started two games last season and more in a prior season. He also doesn't show up as immediate eligible, but that linked article speculates he might be a grad transfer.

It would make sense.........

 

[JReb]

To be clear, it was Bobby Burton's Rivals' 100 in the 90s until 2000 when it became Rivals100. In 2001 it was changed to just Rivals.

I have been reading a lot on twitter and other locations that people don't think Sanchez is doing a good job of recruiting and that he should have also be gone because Menzies was fired, so I decided to go and look at how he has done in regards to recruiting and found he has actually done amazingly well.

Per 247 Sports all time top 25 recruits for UNLV, the following are recruits of coach Sanchez:
#3 Victor Viramontes
#7 Armani Rogers
#14 Jamel Hamm
#15 Johnny Stanton
#17 Travis Mumphrey
#20 Kenyon Oblad
#21 Alex Neale
#22 David Tate Jr.
#23 Justin Polu
#24 Charles Williams
#25 Jamal Holloway

So Sanchez has recruited 11 of the top 25 all time recruits for UNLV! Add to that two recent 4* transfers.

I am not sure how far this goes back but Jim Strong in 1990 brought in exceptional talent.. Shannon McClain was ranked in the top 300 overall recruits as a lb but wanted to play RB so he came here. Strong also brought in Keith Washington, Henry Bailey, Hunkie Cooper, and Ramon Hilton. All were very highly ranked I believe and pushing 4 stars. Strong was hated by the players and did not last long.

 

[j. spilotro]

I am not sure how far this goes back but Jim Strong in 1990 brought in exceptional talent.. Shannon McClain was ranked in the top 300 overall recruits as a lb but wanted to play RB so he came here. Strong also brought in Keith Washington, Henry Bailey, Hunkie Cooper, and Ramon Hilton. All were very highly ranked I believe and pushing 4 stars. Strong was hated by the players and did not last long.

Good stuffs.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Simply put I think there is more to grading recruiting than just compiling stars.

On that criteria Sanchez has been better than his predecessors.

If you're grading him vs the conference, he's middle of the pack.

Offense he's landed some very good recruits. Offensive numbers back that up.

On defense he has a lot of misses and not been particularly good. Numbers definitely back that up.

His recruiting has been ok.

 

[ImmaRebel]

I looked at the transfer portal, and there are a handful of west coast P5 defensive transfers listed as "immediate" eligible, but none with obvious UNLV ties. But not all the grad transfers show up yet as immediate eligible.

One east coast guy that caught my attention due to the Skipper/Florida connection was:
http://www.onlygators.com/03/01/2019/reports-florida-lb-kylan-johnson-looking-to-transfer/
since he started two games last season and more in a prior season. He also doesn't show up as immediate eligible, but that linked article speculates he might be a grad transfer.

I also looked at the transfer portal, and as far as the east coast player I also thought it could be Kylan Johnson. Not only the Skipper connection, but also the fact that he attended Skyline High School in Dallas. Again I don't know who for sure, or if there is a for sure.
Two other guesses for the west coast player who is looking at UNLV:
Oluwoke Betiku Jr. 6-3 240lbs LB, who played High School ball at "Junipero Serra" in Gardena, Ca. He was rated 5-star .9884 as a High School Senior, but doesn't look like he had 5=star stats at USC;
The other could be Ykili Ross 6-1 195lbs. Safety out of Polytechnic High in Riverside. He was a 4-star .9630 as a High School Senior.
I could be wrong on all three, but the fact that the UNLV coaching staff is still working the recruiting trails with 2 scholarships to give is positive.
I agree with Rebel 1986 with Tony's recruiting this year. I wonder if 247 sports were to factor in the last 2 commits where we would be ranked in the MWC for 2019. Darran Williams isn't listed on 247 as far as being rated. So I don't know what his rating is, but honorable mention JC RB should put him at least a 3-star.
Last point is we still have to win 6 games. That means our Defense has to keep it under 30 points per game, and Armani has to really step up

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Boys.... Opinions are just that. No one is right. No one is wrong. Having said that.....TS has done a great job of bringing some really good talent. However, not every good recruit pans out. Plan and simple. And, that is true at Alabam or UNLV....

Correct.

Simple question for you...

If you're offense is top 50 in the country but you're outside the top 100 In defense and the following year you go offense heavy and fail to land any impact defensive players is that good recruiting?

That's the point I am trying to make. There are more layers than simply *'s handed out by a website

Have you addressed needs?

Have you done a good job getting under the radar guys. (I think Sanchez has actually been good here)

Do you have more hits than misses?

How do you stack up in conference?

All those things matter...

My take, when you look big picture, Sanchez' recruiting has been Ok....Better than Hauck, but not great.

Results on the field kind of mirror that.

Asking/discussing conversationally....Not combatively.

 

[BleedRebelRed90]

I wonder if 247 sports were to factor in the last 2 commits where we would be ranked in the MWC for 2019.

The middle of the MWC is a tight cluster (between 87 and 99 nationally) for rankings and the number of player added is a factor. Not much separates being #3 from #8:

87 USU
88 Fresno
92 UNR
94 SDSU
97 Wyoming
99 UNLV

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I agree with Rebel 1986 with Tony's recruiting this year.

Right now Viramontes is the only JUCO on defense from this class running first team.

Uasike, Austrie, Flowers, Plummer, McCoy, White, Malakius, White, Sulu, Neal are running first team.

All returning guys.

I'm not bashing Sanchez. I'm just telling people to temper expectations for now.

 

[RebelinWA]

Offensive line recruiting has been been very good. We have a real depth chart that features good experience with multiple guys have expeirence at multiple spots on the o line. Having guards that are fast enough to play tackle, and tackles that are big enough to be guards is awesome.

Take everything in my post and flip it negative for the D line.

The Hughes/ Fao combo was very good, but we lacked synergy across the board on the d line. I m hoping Manoa has as big of a jump as Kolo did last year. Even then, we lack the quality depth that the offensive line has.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Offensive line recruiting has been been very good. We have a real depth chart that features good experience with multiple guys have expeirence at multiple spots on the o line

Take everything in my post and flip it negative for the D line.

The Hughes/ Fao combo was very good, but we lacked synergy across the board on the d line. I m hoping Manoa has as big of a jump as Kolo did last year. Even then, we lack the quality depth that the offensive line has.

Exactly.

There has been some good. Some bad.