Kevin should be ashamed:
- Thread starter BornRebelRed
- Start date
You're right. My bad. I guess I need my eyes checked. Or worse - my brain.
I honestly do not see what Odom has done has anything to do with this.
He doesn't have a NET equivalent. He needs a mixture of tough game and wins, but it can be more forgiving in football.
Also stop talking about a slow build when it comes to Odom, he didn't slow build because he had a pretty good roster to work with out of the box. He did not start from scratch, so that comparison doesn't hold up.
Arroyo not a great HC, but a good recruiter. He did better than any coach we had before him in terms of initial rankings ( Odom has already surpassed that). But he was able to work with players that have been near the top of the conference who were also seasoned.
Not to discredit Odom. He has done wonders with this team and deserves all the credit in the world for last season. But you have to acknowledge that had the approach of trying to utilize the players that were already on the team to be as good as possible right away. He picked an OC that runs a system that can fit to many different pieces, he also had a similar approach to the defense.
I love this approach, but it is the exception to the rule. Most coaches try to use existing talent when taking over, but often have systems that require specific player types. Especially in football. '
So back to basketball, so your saying win the league outright and everything will take care of itself? So are you saying you should just count on 3-4 days in March to make the dance? Haven't you been criticizing that approach for the past several years?
The goal is to have a tournament worthy resume before the conference tournament. Finishing first in the MW is no guarantee.
If you load up your schedule and play tough teams in environments that put you in a disadvantage then your resume will suffer. Going 1-8 in quad one wont help. You need as many quad one games as possible with some chance to win at least half of those games.
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Tinkering, trying to slide in through the back door …. Just do the work, win. Win the league itself, regular season. Don’t depend on 3/4 in March.
Like Odom did. No excuses. Crappy team. Historically terrible program.
Like Lindy did. No excuses. Crappy team. Historically poor program.
With less resources, less history, less backing and a much worse starting spot.
Stop dicking around. Get to it. Incremental (and arguable) slow growth doesn’t cut it. That’s a sham, it’s a built in excuse to fail.
Just win. Enough is enough.
Everything is an excuse as to why we should accept the sub mediocrity that we’ve had.
Give me 3 years and 3 million, then I’ll get to work, if I feel like it. If I don’t feel like it, I’ll take the fourth million and be on my way.
There’s just been zero urgency and hoping the fans are patient.
Meanwhile, Odom says F what people are used to, I’m here to win. And he goes out and gives his all and thankfully, results are following.
There’s just been zero urgency and hoping the fans are patient.
Meanwhile, Odom says F what people are used to, I’m here to win. And he goes out and gives his all and thankfully, results are following.
It is funny how people are bitching about how UNLV played verse Houston. UNLV was the underdog and easily won. Sluka was in his very first game, so no doubt they made things simple so that he wouldn't need to pass a lot. Remove a few of the penalties deserved or not, and UNLV could have easily scored 40+. Not basketball, but as easy as UNLV won, there is enough happiness to spread to both the football and basketball threads!
You would think this team was losing if you read the boards..
I agree. But using Odom as an example that the idea of slow growth being a sham doesn't make sense.
He has a somewhat unique approach that I like. Building around talent that he already has. But that is the exception rather than a rule. Most coaches rise through the ranks due to a particular approach which made them unique and successful. Most of then those approaches need specific personnel to run that may takes years to develop.
It is easier to turn over a roster in 1 year now more than ever, but Odom didn't do that. The majority of his contributing players last year were legacy players. Good players brought in from another coach who was a good recruiter if nothing else.
I don't see Kevin for instance, using slow growth as a crutch. In fact until this year he has tried the opposite. Going with temporary players over longer term players, which is what you were implying he should do. So if your "slow growth" is meant to be a shot at Kevin, which is obviously what you are implying, then that doesn't fit either. In fact, we probably would have been better last year if we tried to build with more multiple year players, you know, like the majority of our peers that have done with more success than us.
Kevin himself needs growth being a first time HC, and one without the experience as an assistant as other first time head coaches. But even with that, he took us to our objectively best finish since Rice's first year in year 3.
Before you put words in my mouth like you always do, he doesn't deserve a raise or extension, and we need to see more. Last year was still somewhat of a disappointment. No one is super happy with where we are. Some just are more realistic with our situation.
But you also can't just hone in on Kevin and make a decision. The athletic department has a budget. Football deserves all it can get, it is our one and only ticket to substantially increase media revenue that can completely change the all of our programs. Maybe there is a way to get a high dollar basketball head coach and give the football program all that it needs to make waves. But I don't know where that will come from, do you?
Harper is a football guy, he made a bold decision to fundraise and hire Barry, who wasn't even his first choice. It looks great right now. I couldn't be happier about it. But making a move like that at a place like UNLV, probably means that the other programs, including basketball may get less capital.
And Lindy?
It’s happening in our own backyard. You don’t catch lightning in a bottle twice in a week.
She didn’t need excuses. Fast growth. Poor history, poor recent history, young, first time HC, garbage budget. Very little experience.
But that’s different.
Y\
Yea, seems like CKK and people still on board with him are running out of excuses. RAN OUT IMO! I dont see any end of the tunnel with him. Wish it was different! Vegas does not like Vanilla. Which CKK has in spades. Recruiting at a high level is the key obviously . CKK has proven not to be able to do that. Nobody is going to throw money(NIL) at UNLVBB with him as the HC. Few exceptions. If we are in a close $ tie with other schools for a player we probably lose more time than not. They come here for PT and thats about it. Maybe Vegas nightlife? They sure are not coming here for chance to go dancing.
The story isn’t yet completely written.
But it’s appearing like I was wrong. Won’t be the first time, won’t be the last time. But if it doesn’t pan out, it’ll be another lesson for me to stick with my gut, not my heart.
My initial gut was not a good hire, getting the job because of pops (that part is true). But in talking with people that know him much better than I do … I tried to keep an open mind … then i focused on him as a feisty player who knew how to win, then add in his father as a resource … then I thought, maybe, why not? I still hope for that, but I keep hearing about the complete lack of urgency from the staff, weak team unity … and then you see the very bland results. A backed into NIT doesn’t make me strain my undies. This is the basketball program, once the pride and joy and only thing that mattered, you should not need a high powered microscope to search for improvements. That SHOULD be reserved for football … because football didn’t matter, nobody cared and the history was awful … you take small improvements.
Not really buying the vanilla though. If Odom wasn’t winning, he’d be considered vanilla. Very measured and calm in every response, nothing colorful about him. And Sanders, who is as loud as they get, might end up being a used car salesman that costs 6M per year. I don’t think vanilla vs flamboyant has anything at all to do with winning or ability.
Odom is experience and has knowledge and knows how to run a program. Not really Vanilla. Tell me any HC that wins at a high level that is Vanilla. U have to be able to demand respect, get the most out of your players , get the right minded players, know how to build a team to win. Being Charismatic draws those types of players in. Not having those qualities leads to what we have. No kid is going to come here because of CKK! NONE! They come here for other reasons. Being captivating goes a long way in coaching kids up and being able to land the right type of players. So being Vanilla does hurt.
He has experience and knowledge and he’s a good coach.
He says the right things, but he’s vanilla. You don’t see it because we are winning. Fiery doesn’t mean dick. Arroyo was fiery, so was Sanchez. What the hell does your demeanor have to do with the ability to win? John Wooden was bland.
He says the right things, but he’s vanilla. You don’t see it because we are winning. Fiery doesn’t mean dick. Arroyo was fiery, so was Sanchez. What the hell does your demeanor have to do with the ability to win? John Wooden was bland. Smart but bland. Vanilla. He won a bunch. KC Jones for the Celtics. Jay Wright was extremely milquetoast.
Seeing fire, sure, easier to judge because you see it. But if they have the inner fire and don’t show it externally … I don’t see why that doesn’t work.
Lindy did a great job. She has led our team to becoming the best in a bad, 1 bid conference.
Odom and Kruger are in better relative conferences in their sports.
College basketball coaching rankings: The Top 25 And 1 coaches as the 2023-24 season gets underway
These are the top coaches in college basketball, according to the CBS Sports panel of experts
www.cbssports.com
Look at the qualities of those HC and tell me what they have in common?? NONE are Vanilla. Some might be a bit reserved ,but ALL draw u in when they talk almost all are fiery. Players are drawn to them. Listen to them and play hard for them. They have Charisma . Does anybody watch a CKK post press conference?? How do u sell a program to the public, players and NIL money if nobody is listening ??
I don’t buy it. Sorry. I played much better under an in your face, charismatic coach. Much better. Not all do. And mild mannered can win.
You tend to get sold on bells and whistles a lot, not actual substance.
Remember seeing McCoy and thinking “we are back” just because you misjudged based on his size? What you see isn’t always what you get. I gave you a list of mild mannered. I gave you a list of fiery failures too. It shows that you’re placing too much value on it.
I get it, I’d much rather see fire on the sidelines. It gives off the vibe that they’re “trying harder”, “doing more”. But seriously, it doesn’t mean shit.
its the whole package. Much better chances of winning when u demand excellence. yes there are some exceptions to having a mild manner coach. VERY FEW . As a HC u need to lead by example. Having Charisma goes a long way into getting kids to buy into u. Being fiery HC?? The TOP 25 HCs (objective) are all almost all of them are charismatic, FIREY , knowledgeable, great at game management(adjustments) , and experienced . U can name fiery HCs that does not succeed? I never said its fool proof. ,but more often than not u have those 5 qualities and your going to go a long way. CKK has 1 of those 5. I want a coach that wears his emotions on his sleeve. Personally . Player tend to listen more. That is why CKK started later in season got more engaging with the players . Everyone saw it. As for McCoy he was 6'11 and a 5* recruit. Had talent. NO question ,but had no interest or no heart to play at a elite level. That was quickly evident when we played against better completion.
If you can find plenty of exceptions on both ends (fiery means wins, contemplative means losses), then it’s not a strong basis to make strong assumptions.
What an embarrassing take about Coach Rice. Just embarrassing. We literally haven’t filled out the bottom section since he’s left. The impact of his firing economically set back the program for years and winning. If you can’t see that, that’s your issue.
I Still hold the opinion if KK doesnt get in the Dance then he should be gone this year. I love where football is now but basketball is just a flat out joke. Dont keep waisting time on someone who obviously isnt going to make the team any better then a mid level mwc team
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With the end of the MWC for all practical purposes in the next two years, it is extremely important that the basketball program get on par with football so that UNLV can make sure we get into a major conference and bypass the Pac2.
Wow, the shift has been 180 and in no time.
Because one doesn’t believe in slow growth, the other does.
Their home scheduling is an embarrassment they always pull that crap and move the best home games to someplace else.
I'm rooting for Kevin hard, but I've seen enough by this point to know he's not 'it' at this point of his career. There is an argument that he's learning on the job and we've seen some positive steps in a positive direction with addressing needs and filling glaring holes with at least stop gap measures. But if we're all being real, if he had the coaching acumen to get it done I think we would have already seen it. We've had just as much talent as anyone except SDSU, but have laid more turds against teams that have no business beating us than any coach I can remember at UNLV--the three-headed Grg/Cle/Howie staff might be worse but I've tried desperately to try and forget those years. in 3 season KK has 11 Q3 and Q4 losses. That's almost 4 terrible losses a season. Those are the losses that cost us NCAA bids the last 2 years (don't think they would have mattered much in Year 1). Those should be money in the bank. Add in the fact that we're 1-3 in the MWC tourney in 3 years with that one win coming against AFA in OT and it's hard for me to see an equation where he's still here next year.
You can make the argument that he's performing slightly better than his salary. There are metrics you can find that support that perspective. I'm not here to hate on anyone that still is a KK stan...I just think I would have seen more of the low bar metrics being crossed at year 3. Maybe this year will be different, but I don't see any evidence that it's going to be a high probability.
You can make the argument that he's performing slightly better than his salary. There are metrics you can find that support that perspective. I'm not here to hate on anyone that still is a KK stan...I just think I would have seen more of the low bar metrics being crossed at year 3. Maybe this year will be different, but I don't see any evidence that it's going to be a high probability.
