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It's all G5....

That's not the original ask... You ask if all things being considered equal which jobs Id take if you had your pick. I laid out reasons why for each one. There is not precedence for a "Barry Odom" in any spot in the MWC, but if you were talking about jobs with great facilities and fans that would pony up for the right coach, Absolutely Wyoming is program with history, has shown its ability to produce NFL talent and has as I was informed earlier this year really nice new facilities. You throw a Barry Odom into any spot other than Reno and they're probably making the same push because the pathway to the G5 championship and playoff birth has been simplified. Heck CSU played nobody, lost all their big non-conference games, went on a winning streak against all the bottom feeding MWC teams and was getting votes... You dont think playing a simple schedule with 1 decent team and then winning 11 straight regardless of the conference doesn't put you in a playoff position every year?

I might take the Wyoming job over USU. That's about it.

They do have good facilities and they have shown investment in the past. But recruiting to Laramie isn't easy and they will have to increase NIL substantially.

I think I can get into the top 25 with any of the PAC schools quicker than I could any of the remaining MWC schools.
 
I worded it wrong I guess. I figured it would be assumed that the question was 'Where can you have the most success would mean building a CFP contender' not 'Win 6 games and bolt to a bigger job'.

'You dont think playing a simple schedule with 1 decent team and then winning 11 straight regardless of the conference doesn't put you in a playoff position every year?'

Yes but that's assuming that nobody else is doing that in other conferences.

What schools have the higher ceilings? Potential etc.

I can't point to one MWC school remaining...
Yeah, but you cant do that same exercise for the Pac 12 either. Thats the issue with the entire conference basically being mediocre at football, as well as the Pac 12 schools- WSU played the a slew of bottom tier MWC teams and when it played the better teams even borderline teams like UNM and Wyoming they lost. I called the conference the Mediocre West for a reason and there's not a single school that you can say they'd be able to be competing for a playoff spot with out saying just about every other school between both conferences with that exact set of circumstances could do as well...
Any program with the right hire (outside Reno) could pull a Barry Odom because the majority of the conference suck or at best are slightly better than a .500 team. Each one would run into the same problem of a loss outside of any team not named Boise or UNLV sinking their entire season from a CFP perspective. Thats not changing in 2 years when the Pac 12 starts playing each other. They will absolutely wallow around in mediocrity much the same way they do here. Its a historic issue outside that 1 or 2 year "Odom" style run.
 
Yeah, but you cant do that same exercise for the Pac 12 either. Thats the issue with the entire conference basically being mediocre at football, as well as the Pac 12 schools- WSU played the a slew of bottom tier MWC teams and when it played the better teams even borderline teams like UNM and Wyoming they lost. I called the conference the Mediocre West for a reason and there's not a single school that you can say they'd be able to be competing for a playoff spot with out saying just about every other school between both conferences with that exact set of circumstances could do as well...
Any program with the right hire (outside Reno) could pull a Barry Odom because the majority of the conference suck or at best are slightly better than a .500 team. Each one would run into the same problem of a loss outside of any team not named Boise or UNLV sinking their entire season from a CFP perspective. Thats not changing in 2 years when the Pac 12 starts playing each other. They will absolutely wallow around in mediocrity much the same way they do here. Its a historic issue outside that 1 or 2 year "Odom" style run.

Ok. We'll see in a couple years..

Personally the PAC top to bottom has the most schools with upside and potential.

We have Reno and UNM.
 
I might take the Wyoming job over USU. That's about it.

They do have good facilities and they have shown investment in the past. But recruiting to Laramie isn't easy and they will have to increase NIL substantially.

I think I can get into the top 25 with any of the PAC schools quicker than I could any of the remaining MWC schools.
SJSU pays more than any other school in the MWC prior to the UNLV deal as far as I know with a 2024 pay of $2.3 million per year..
 
#1 would be the MWC - UNLV pays 3X what BSU pays.

Removing BSU and UNLV for the last 4 seasons and skipping the covid partial year (number of years winning record/losing record):
Without question this was a bad year for several teams.

Air Force, they are 40-12 over the prior (4-0)
CSU (0-4)
Fresno State (3-1)
New Mexico (0-4)
SDSU (3-1)
SJSU (2-2
Hawaii (1-3) Without a new stadium they will struggle, so I hope a new stadium was a condition of full membership
Nevada (2-2)
Wyoming (4-0)
Utah State (2-2)

In the four prior years without including BSU or UNLV:
MWC teams 13 winning and 11 losing seasons
MWC to the PAC teams 8 winning and 8 losing

As for Washington State and Oregon State, we will need to see how quickly they fall with all of their funding dried up. If you did include these two teams, they went 5-3 winning to losing seasons.

Wasn't the question really.

Based on known amenities, known booster support etc.

You're job is to get into the top 25 and possibly get into the CFP.

You have your pick of the litter of remaining PAC/MWC schools aside from Boise and UNLV.

I don't think there's a current MWC school I would take the job at over any of the departing schools or WSU/OSU. I think those schools have higher ceilings than what remains in the MWC.
 
Ultimately I will say I like the idea to stay, even if it is a long shot. Getting into the P4 should be the priority period. It is the only long term solution to make things really help the program.

But I have a few exceptions a couple of your points.

2.5 years is the short term, with that gets held up with no reductions, expect UNLV to get the maximum amount promised them in the lump sum, which is 14 million.

This is from UNLV after the initial announcement of the MOR, before any lawsuits.

"According to a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) signed by President Whitfield, the Mountain West will pay an estimated lump sum of $10-to-14 million to UNLV in 2025, and also pay UNLV approximately $1.5-to-1.8 million annually over a six-year period beginning in July 2026. The new payments are on top of the current revenue streams from existing contracts and media assets. The current media deal expires in June 2026 and negotiations for a new media deal will begin in the near future. The university will also have the flexibility to explore future membership in an autonomous “Power Four” conference without penalty should the opportunity become available. "

If the poaching fee lawsuit gets reduced then that lump sum will also reduce.


Then it is an extra 1.5-1.8 over just 6 years. Not great.

Given recent moves I think the base PAC deal will easily be double the base MW deal. if they get 10 we get 5, if they get 12, we may still get 5.

Exit fees will be negotiated like they always do. Until realignment happens and this doesn't occur (hasn't yet) then we should not be expecting the full values.

Given how egregious our fees are compared to the media value, hard to say what they get knocked down to. Less egregious fees have been reduced to 50% Just look at the PAC last year.


A lot of the numbers seem to be equivalent to roughly the value of 2 years of the base contract. Next season our base value is 5 mil since we don't have the scheduling agreement with the PAC 2. So I think a safe estimate is 11 mil per school. Though it could easily be less. If the poaching fees do hold up, I think it will be used against the MW in negotiations.

The promised money is all "estimated". Mostly because the conference does not have a war chest of millions of dollars to spend. It is estimated because fees are not set in stone their value, and there are potential costs with adding additional schools. Do we have to help with exit fees, or FCS to FBS fees? The extra 1.5-1.8 could easily be reduced if negotiated fees are lower than the MW estimated and/or there are higher costs with expansion than anticipated.

So if the the poaching fees hold up, that gives us a 10-14 mil head start, but we would be losing out on 3- 5 mil a year after that.

If we were to take the offer, which included 6 mil in exit fees from the PAC. We would be looking at likely 5 mil in exit fees for us. If we decided to play that over time than that is just 2 mil a year for 3 years. It does take long to pay that off.

I agree having money up front for UNLV is a factor we had to extend Odom or find a top notch replacement which we did, and we likely have to find a basketball coach as well.

I just don't think it would have taken long at all to make up the difference from the move.

The bad part to the MOR is a commitment until 2032. So I am not sure if that language does anything to raise our exit fees or hurt our negotiations with exit fees if we decide to join the PAC later. Which is totally an option, and I can see it happening down the road still. But I still think we ultimately would lose money joining the PAC later than now.

But joining the PAC all but shuts the door on the Big12. At least it feels that way. So that is why I like the decision to stay.
Not gonna do a whole breakdown tonight, or probably tomorrow either (you’re welcome fellas)… but I do understand where you’re coming from.

Based on our posts, I think you might be a hair too pessimistic, and you might think I’m a bit too optimistic… it’ll be some time before we find out I’m right…

😬

Just kidding obviously…

A lot of gray and too many unknowns to continue to “argue”(not saying we are)… just too much has to play out.

Two things I do/don’t know…

There IS risk to the choice…

I don’t know how much of a choice we REALLY had.

We agree that the right choice was made (I think), now we gotta let it play out. I personally am excited for the first time in a long time and am proud of the moves THE University of Nevada Las Vegas has made.
 
Well if that shocked you. DO NOT Google UTEP football results. I repeat DO NOT GOOGLE UTEP football results.
UTEP has been terrible, yes. But with a little love, they’re in a better spot than UNLV was during the Sanford and Hauck eras. Their facility and stadium are pretty nice. That town will support a winner. UTEP’s first home game 41.6k. It dropped off dramatically after that, but the potential is there.

They don’t have the nfl stadium coming. But if they could break even for a couple of seasons, they’ll be sitting pretty.

They have one big billionaire booster. He’s pretty spotty with his support, but he didn’t blink to give UTEP $2.5 to move to the MW.
 
The only reason that the AAC wasn't in front of the MWC was due to BSU having a very high rating due to the one game played verse Oregon. Remove BSU and the rest of the MWC didn't do anything. When the MWC breaks to the PAC, they will have BSU and a bunch of SCRUBS (sorry, pun intended!). Depending on being able to get NIU and one other team from back east, I do not believe there will be that noticeable of a difference between the MWC and the PAC on a national level. The bottom line is that UNLV must be as good as they were this year or better. As for BSU, remove the wins over UNLV, and they didn't beat a single team ranked in the top 40.
It wasn't jsut Boise. We were ranked ahead of Army even with 2 losses, and many had us ahead of Tulane with both with 2 losses, though the CFP ranking did not.

NIU doesn't move the needle much for me. They were a 100+ level team. It doesn't seem that their brand draws a lot of eyeballs. Being in another timezone is nice but does it matter if you are grabbing a small fan base with it?

They are upper middle team in a conference that is worth less media value than the current MW. At best they would be the average value if the new MW with all factors considered
 
Ok. We'll see in a couple years..

Personally the PAC top to bottom has the most schools with upside and potential.

We have Reno and UNM.
I just think that neither league is better than the other. That its a lot more balanced than people think and balanced meaning mediocre. I think that the money that people keep throwing around isnt going to be there and even if its a few extra million dollars, youre giving Boise the benefit of the doubt while everyone else is mediocre. I think both leagues suffer from institutions that ignored football and the ones who had success early tried to leave almost a decade ago when they were relevant but havent been able to get anywhere near that since except for Boise. We spent a lot of years in that mediocrity to down right terrible but finally decided to start spending money and taking it seriously.
It wasn't jsut Boise. We were ranked ahead of Army even with 2 losses, and many had us ahead of Tulane with both with 2 losses, though the CFP ranking did not.

NIU doesn't move the needle much for me. They were a 100+ level team. It doesn't seem that their brand draws a lot of eyeballs. Being in another timezone is nice but does it matter if you are grabbing a small fan base with it?

They are upper middle team in a conference that is worth less media value than the current MW. At best they would be the average value if the new MW with all factors considered
Ww also played a much tougher schedule than Army and Tulane. We beat 2 P4 programs on the road, we had 2 combined losses by 8 points. Our schedules were not the same and that's why with 2 losses we were able to stay in Top 25. Our conference is full of mid-tier to bottom feeders and the vaunted Pac 12 is going to be taking several of those.
 
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I just think that neither league is better than the other. That its a lot more balanced than people think and balanced meaning mediocre. I think that the money that people keep throwing around isnt going to be there and even if its a few extra million dollars, youre giving Boise the benefit of the doubt while everyone else is mediocre. I think both leagues suffer from institutions that ignored football and the ones who had success early tried to leave almost a decade ago when they were relevant but havent been able to get anywhere near that since except for Boise. We spent a lot of years in that mediocrity to down right terrible but finally decided to start spending money and taking it seriously.
Ww also played a much tougher schedule than Army and Tulane. We beat 2 P4 programs on the road, we had 2 combined losses by 8 points. Our schedules were not the same and that's why with 2 losses we were able to stay in Top 25. Our conference is full of mid-tier to bottom feeders and the vaunted Pac 12 is going to be taking several of those.
Our P4 wins weren't moving the needle and you know it. We were ranked ahead of army before Kansas started their whirlwind tour of really good wins.

Mediocre yes. But we have bad teams with little hope. Their bad teams actually have a lot of hope.

Utah State under Bronco, SDSU, both have a ton of potential over nearly any MW school outside of UNLV.

Fresno was using an interim coach that we know first hand is flawed

Reno, UNM, have little hope. Hawaii's ceiling is low. AFA has a cap on their ceiling which is maybe what Navy and Army did this year, perhaps a step down from that

There is some potential at Wyoming, though it seems that the NIL era will hurt them. Not that much money there community wise.

Sjsu has been really good, but will they invest? They spend zero dollars in NIL in basketball, not sure about football. They have paid good money for coaches but does it trickle down? Their fan base doesn't care so why would they invest?

Every team in the new PAC you could realistically see in the top 25. We have 3, maybe 4 teams.

All of that adds up. SOS matters.

Then there is the money. We will see, but I thinjthey will be getting significantly more, and once they get in a couple of years, they will be racking up more NCAAT credits. Money certainly helps stay competitive. We seemingly found some willing to invest, but that is new to us, will that be there down the road if we can't strike gold again after Mullen inevitably moves on?
 
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