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Interesting .

TimothyC3 said:
Where? If there was money was is the UNLV basketball coach one of the lowest paid in the MWC? Alford $1.4 mill. KK $700k.
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Yes, compare a long-time, well-regarded coach with demonstrated history as a successful hc in MWC and recency in a Pac-12, top tier job to a first time head coach at a program he would likely take a pay cut for because of his ties to the school.

Second highest paid football coach in conference history behind Chris Freakin' Petersen (who was only in MWC for a year or two)?

There is money.

Edit: also, amused at the comparison with Alford who is the highest paid coach in the conference. Makes sense since Reno was in position to attract good coaches after Muss. Only 3 hoops coaches in MWC make over $1m: Alford, Dutcher, Medved.
 
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TimothyC3 said:
Where? If there was money was is the UNLV basketball coach one of the lowest paid in the MWC? Alford $1.4 mill. KK $700k.
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Not exactly a similar comparison... KK was a freshman HC (1st time gig, low experience) and because of that he got you get a bargain pay deal that was incentivized to him being successful and leaving (high buyout) or being successful and renegotiating terms for a raise (also likely a high buyout)...

Note Alford at 1.4 seems like a bargain for Reno.
 
LocoRebel said:
Yes, compare a long-time, well-regarded coach with demonstrated history as a successful hc in MWC and recency in a Pac-12, top tier job to a first time head coach at a program he would likely take a pay cut for because of his ties to the school.

Second highest paid football coach in conference history behind Chris Freakin' Petersen (who was only in MWC for a year or two)?

There is money.

Edit: also, amused at the comparison with Alford who is the highest paid coach in the conference. Makes sense since Reno was in position to attract good coaches after Muss. Only 3 hoops coaches in MWC make over $1m: Alford, Dutcher, Medved.
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You miss the point. UNLV is small time! The supposed premier program in the MWC should not pay it's basketball coach a measly $700k! $1.5 to $2 mill would have resulted in a completely different coaching prospects and pool considering UNLV. Also, if the had the money, why didn't they spend it 2 years ago? Here's the coaches salary in the MWC:

  • Steve Alford (Nevada): $1,403,500, per USA TODAY
  • Brian Dutcher (San Diego State): $1.31 million average (will be $1.53 by last season in 2025-26), per San Diego Union Tribune
  • Medved: $1.1 million for next three seasons before rising as high as $1.3 by 2028
  • Ryan Odum (Utah State): $4 million over 5 years (average of $800,000 per year), per Deseret News
  • Richard Pitino (New Mexico): $775,000 this season but will rise to $800,000, per Albuquerque Journal
  • Leon Rice (Boise State): $784,197, per Idaho Press Tribune
  • Kevin Kruger (UNLV): $770,000, per The Athletic
  • Tim Miles (San Jose State): $700,000, per McFeely Blog
  • Justin Hutson (Fresno State): $500,000, per San Diego Union Tribune
  • Jeff Linder (Wyoming): $225,000 base, WyomingNews.com
  • Joe Scott (Air Force): N/A
 
TimothyC3 said:
You miss the point. UNLV is small time! The supposed premier program in the MWC should not pay it's basketball coach a measly $700k! $1.5 to $2 mill would have resulted in a completely different coaching prospects and pool considering UNLV. Also, if the had the money, why didn't they spend it 2 years ago? Here's the coaches salary in the MWC:

  • Steve Alford (Nevada): $1,403,500, per USA TODAY
  • Brian Dutcher (San Diego State): $1.31 million average (will be $1.53 by last season in 2025-26), per San Diego Union Tribune
  • Medved: $1.1 million for next three seasons before rising as high as $1.3 by 2028
  • Ryan Odum (Utah State): $4 million over 5 years (average of $800,000 per year), per Deseret News
  • Richard Pitino (New Mexico): $775,000 this season but will rise to $800,000, per Albuquerque Journal
  • Leon Rice (Boise State): $784,197, per Idaho Press Tribune
  • Kevin Kruger (UNLV): $770,000, per The Athletic
  • Tim Miles (San Jose State): $700,000, per McFeely Blog
  • Justin Hutson (Fresno State): $500,000, per San Diego Union Tribune
  • Jeff Linder (Wyoming): $225,000 base, WyomingNews.com
  • Joe Scott (Air Force): N/A
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You do realize that we had those deep pockets during the hiring search but it only lasted 3 days because Des didn't care and wanted to resolve the coaching search as fast as possible? We're paying KK 700k because his experience dictated such, not because we couldn't afford to spend more.
 
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Masked_rebel said:
You do realize that we had those deep pockets during the hiring search but it only lasted 3 days because Des didn't care and wanted to resolve the coaching search as fast as possible? We're paying KK 700k because his experience dictated such, not because we couldn't afford to spend more.
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You don’t pay a top salary to an unknown coach, that’s just black and white, anyone can see that as a fact!
 
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On salary CKK is getting paid correctly based on experience, was/is there more money available probably is there $2M a year available probably not.

I thought it was interesting that the LVRJ did an article on Dave Rice recently. Not saying he is a candidate or should be even considered thought the timing of the article was suspect, surprised Rice agreed based on the situation. The only thing I will say is I do miss beating top 10 teams…I mean if we are going to finish below 5th in conference might as well win in OOC against good teams.
 
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Rebel77fl2 said:
On salary CKK is getting paid correctly based on experience, was/is there more money available probably is there $2M a year available probably not.

I thought it was interesting that the LVRJ did an article on Dave Rice recently. Not saying he is a candidate or should be even considered thought the timing of the article was suspect, surprised Rice agreed based on the situation. The only thing I will say is I do miss beating top 10 teams…I mean if we are going to finish below 5th in conference might as well win in OOC against good teams.
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I hear this all the time on this board and this is weak. I agree Dave got guys here but he did absolutely nothing with them when they were here! If we could beat top teams in OOC, why couldn’t he get those same guys to compete against the MWC teams. We were middle of the road if not worse as time went on with him. I know I for one think that UNLV can be better than that! I appreciate Dave’s effort but he is not a standard I want in a coach here, we need recruiting combined with coaching! And we can get that from someone other than Pitino or Beard, just don’t know who yet but let’s see what happens as this week goes on.
 
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TimothyC3 said:
You miss the point. UNLV is small time! The supposed premier program in the MWC should not pay it's basketball coach a measly $700k! $1.5 to $2 mill would have resulted in a completely different coaching prospects and pool considering UNLV. Also, if the had the money, why didn't they spend it 2 years ago?
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The AD at the time didn't care about UNLV. DRF was one foot out the door and made a hire of convenience with maybe a decent ceiling, but knew it wouldn't be her problem. Probably didn't have the money at that time due to the AD relationship with boosters.

UNLV, by comparison of its peers, isn't small time when it comes to expenditures within its MBB and FB programs. UNLV and it's peers might be small time compared to the "upper class" schools and conferences, but anybody who thinks that we are on par with any school we we all would *like* to be compared to is just lost.
 
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Maybe I wasn't clear. Also, This has nothing to do with my support of KK. IMO the reason why UNLV went the route they did is because they are CHEAP! They have no money. If $1.5-2 mill was allocated to hire a veteran coach KK would not be the current UNLV head coach. It's that simple. They were too cheap or didn't have the money and if they didn't have it two years ago, what makes anyone think they will have it in the future? Historically, UNLV has never been an attractive job because the Admin will not pay enough money to attract the type of candidate most would like and accept.
 
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rebel5280 said:
I hear this all the time on this board and this is weak. I agree Dave got guys here but he did absolutely nothing with them when they were here! If we could beat top teams in OOC, why couldn’t he get those same guys to compete against the MWC teams. We were middle of the road if not worse as time went on with him. I know I for one think that UNLV can be better than that! I appreciate Dave’s effort but he is not a standard I want in a coach here, we need recruiting combined with coaching! And we can get that from someone other than Pitino or Beard, just don’t know who yet but let’s see what happens as this week goes on.
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Rice had us top three in the MWC for three straight years. I still contend we finish third his last year if he wasn’t run out (he was 0-3 total of 6 points including the front range road trip). People thought the FSU loss was bad but turned out that it was not so bad. I am not saying we should hire him back but we have not come close to that level of success in conference or out of conference since. If was not run out the last 7 years we would have played in the post season once.

UNLV is going to consistently struggle if we keep thinking the next coach is going to be better after 2 or 3 years. Sure Otz left on his own but plenty of people wanted him gone before he left. I am on record as thinking CKK should get at least one more year.
 
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rebel5280 said:
I hear this all the time on this board and this is weak. I agree Dave got guys here but he did absolutely nothing with them when they were here! If we could beat top teams in OOC, why couldn’t he get those same guys to compete against the MWC teams.
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I think it depends on how you're comparing and what your narrative is. There's no question that Rice got less out of his talent on paper than he should have, but he still brought us the most success of anyone not named Lon or Jerry. He was over .500 in conference (.536), got a top 6 seed twice, had a winning record every season. I don't think that's absolutely nothing, it's a big step behind Lon, and like 7 steps behind Jerry, but it's not nothing.

Rice made a LOT of mistakes--His biggest errors were in roster construction, missing on PGs, having a cohesive coaching staff and by extension a cohesive locker room.

But he had good game plans, could draw up effective dead ball plays and could recruit his ass off. We fired him after he lost 5 out of 6, including back to back top 25 losses to to ASU and Zona, and then a 3 game slide against MWC conference opponents by a total of 6 points. I will always feel like he eventually was going to figure it out--but time is a luxury we don't always have in sports.
rebel5280 said:
I know I for one think that UNLV can be better than that! I appreciate Dave’s effort but he is not a standard I want in a coach here, we need recruiting combined with coaching!
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We've been settling for a lot less the 7 years, but I agree we should be able to do better. However, the evidence that we can is starting to get really, really sparse.
 
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Couev said:
I think it depends on how you're comparing and what your narrative is. There's no question that Rice got less out of his talent on paper than he should have, but he still brought us the most success of anyone not named Lon or Jerry. He was over .500 in conference (.536), got a top 6 seed twice, had a winning record every season. I don't think that's absolutely nothing, it's a big step behind Lon, and like 7 steps behind Jerry, but it's not nothing.

Rice made a LOT of mistakes--His biggest errors were in roster construction, missing on PGs, having a cohesive coaching staff and by extension a cohesive locker room.

But he had good game plans, could draw up effective dead ball plays and could recruit his ass off. We fired him after he lost 5 out of 6, including back to back top 25 losses to to ASU and Zona, and then a 3 game slide against MWC conference opponents by a total of 6 points. I will always feel like he eventually was going to figure it out--but time is a luxury we don't always have in sports.

We've been settling for a lot less the 7 years, but I agree we should be able to do better. However, the evidence that we can is starting to get really, really sparse.
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Yeah. We complained about losing tight ones on the road to Wyoming and CSU. Now we complain about being 20% of an awful Fresno State’s win total. And 30 point home losses vs Utah State.

One gets a bigger break because they don’t recruit as well. Go figure.
 
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Rebel77fl2 said:
On salary CKK is getting paid correctly based on experience, was/is there more money available probably is there $2M a year available probably not.

I thought it was interesting that the LVRJ did an article on Dave Rice recently. Not saying he is a candidate or should be even considered thought the timing of the article was suspect, surprised Rice agreed based on the situation. The only thing I will say is I do miss beating top 10 teams…I mean if we are going to finish below 5th in conference might as well win in OOC against good teams.
Click to expand...
With great players, as well. Recruiting was exciting, games were exciting. Yeah, we lost some games, especially in conference, but at least it was fun watching them play.
 
LVRebel2000 said:
With great players, as well. Recruiting was exciting, games were exciting. Yeah, we lost some games, especially in conference, but at least it was fun watching them play.
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Yeah, at least fans still had emotion. At least we still had fans. Being angry is so much better than apathy. Emotion shows a fan base cares deeply, apathy is malignant leads to fan departure and being ok with whatever happens. That’s downright awful in my book.
 
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j. spilotro said:
Yeah, at least fans still had emotion. At least we still had fans. Being angry is so much better than apathy. Emotion shows a fan base cares deeply, apathy is malignant leads to fan departure and being ok with whatever happens. That’s downright awful in my book.
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Definitely.
 
LocoRebel said:
The AD at the time didn't care about UNLV. DRF was one foot out the door and made a hire of convenience with maybe a decent ceiling, but knew it wouldn't be her problem. Probably didn't have the money at that time due to the AD relationship with boosters.

UNLV, by comparison of its peers, isn't small time when it comes to expenditures within its MBB and FB programs. UNLV and it's peers might be small time compared to the "upper class" schools and conferences, but anybody who thinks that we are on par with any school we we all would *like* to be compared to is just lost.
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I agree about DRF one foot out the door and just making a lazy hire! People forget that we were paying TJ 1.6mill per yr and he was scheduled to make 1.7mill the next year, we were at the top in pay at that time! Plus UNLV got buyout money from Iowa St of about 2.5mill, the money was there to pay good money for a proven head coach! TJ was scheduled to make 1.8mill his 5yr so if you add in the buyout money you could of paid up to 2.3mill per year! Instead DRF when cheap and lazy and figure the department would pocket all that extra money and save on the head coach salary so her athletic department books would look good!
 
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76RunninRebel said:
I agree about DRF one foot out the door and just making a lazy hire! People forget that we were paying TJ 1.6mill per yr and he was scheduled to make 1.7mill the next year, we were at the top in pay at that time! Plus UNLV got buyout money from Iowa St of about 2.5mill, the money was there to pay good money for a proven head coach! TJ was scheduled to make 1.8mill his 5yr so if you add in the buyout money you could of paid up to 2.3mill per year! Instead DRF when cheap and lazy and figure the department would pocket all that extra money and save on the head coach salary so her athletic department books would look good!
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I think out new AD need to show that he is committed to the basketball program and pay top dollar for a proven head coach, can't be first time head coaches and have our pay near the bottom of the conference!
 
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Kruger is getting paid low, because his market value dictates it.

TJ was making 1.2 when Arroyo was hired at starting at 1.5, both had contracts that raised the value each year.

They paid Menzies 800K to leave, and South Dakota State 975K for TJ's buyout.

This was after DRF cut out the booster influence.

I think it is fair that UNLV could probably get a Bball coach in the low 1 mil range probably more, they have done it in the past.

2.1 mil buyout is still a big hurdle no question.

IfCKK did turn things around and have some open market value, UNLV could give him a raise. Especially if we that meant more success and likely more fan support. We could also afford a new coach with a competitive MW salary, if not the top if it came to that.

But if Odom is successful that will create more revenue too. I am hopeful

We will not compete with P5 money, but perhaps we can sweeten the pot enough.
 
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dcut03 said:
Kruger is getting paid low, because his market value dictates it.

TJ was making 1.2 when Arroyo was hired at starting at 1.5, both had contracts that raised the value each year.

They paid Menzies 800K to leave, and South Dakota State 975K for TJ's buyout.

This was after DRF cut out the booster influence.

I think it is fair that UNLV could probably get a Bball coach in the low 1 mil range probably more, they have done it in the past.

2.1 mil buyout is still a big hurdle no question.

IfCKK did turn things around and have some open market value, UNLV could give him a raise. Especially if we that meant more success and likely more fan support. We could also afford a new coach with a competitive MW salary, if not the top if it came to that.

But if Odom is successful that will create more revenue too. I am hopeful

We will not compete with P5 money, but perhaps we can sweeten the pot enough.
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It’s bizarre, but you’re right. I think that’s UNLV’s best bet, going for some football success.

It’s ironic and just shows how far we’ve veered off course. Basketball ALWAYS saved football and every other sport on campus, now we may have to rely upon football to help basketball out.

People aren’t realizing, when you struggle as we have, the donations aren’t going to be as much. Why would Findlay pay xxxx amount for signage in front of 13k per game and pay that same amount for it to be displayed before 3k fans? All the rates will be slashed. It’s just a negative spiral until there is success, which fans will follow.

Another thing, gotta stop losing more than 2 or 3 at home per year. And we are shattering the living hell out of that.
 
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Knight Rebel702 said:
I heard former Rebel assistant Jay Wright is looking to return to Coaching. errrr jk
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If the Harper chased Prime rumors are actually true and verifiable, Going after Jay Wright would probably be an equivalent "big balls" move...
***not in any universe our luck or possibility...

Again, still think there's a few names out there that might not be popular but might be the right choice...
 
TimothyC3 said:
Where? If there was money was is the UNLV basketball coach one of the lowest paid in the MWC? Alford $1.4 mill. KK $700k.
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That’s because that was the going rate for Kevin Kruger, it’s not hard to figure that out. Why would they feel the need to pay KK the same as an accomplished coach? They didn’t have to: They were paying TJO $1.2 million and then got a buyout check from ISU. So we know we can at least get that much.
 
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76RunninRebel said:
I agree about DRF one foot out the door and just making a lazy hire! People forget that we were paying TJ 1.6mill per yr and he was scheduled to make 1.7mill the next year, we were at the top in pay at that time! Plus UNLV got buyout money from Iowa St of about 2.5mill, the money was there to pay good money for a proven head coach! TJ was scheduled to make 1.8mill his 5yr so if you add in the buyout money you could have paid up to 2.3mill per year! Instead DRF when cheap and lazy and figure the department would pocket all that extra money and save on the head coach salary so her athletic department books would look good!
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THIS!!!!!!!!
 
j. spilotro said:
It’s bizarre, but you’re right. I think that’s UNLV’s best bet, going for some football success.

It’s ironic and just shows how far we’ve veered off course. Basketball ALWAYS saved football and every other sport on campus, now we may have to rely upon football to help basketball out.

People aren’t realizing, when you struggle as we have, the donations aren’t going to be as much. Why would Findlay pay xxxx amount for signage in front of 13k per game and pay that same amount for it to be displayed before 3k fans? All the rates will be slashed. It’s just a negative spiral until there is success, which fans will follow.

Another thing, gotta stop losing more than 2 or 3 at home per year. And we are shattering the living hell out of that.
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It is a football country, by far.

Vegas was a basketball town, and in many ways it still is. Mostly because that was our identity as a sports city under Tark.

Vegas is also a very fluid town, with a lot of people moving in and out. The further removed from the Tark days, the population changes and I think Vegas is less of a basketball centric place, but still a very good sports town.

There is a sports bar in town for every NFL team, with more than a few duplicates.

Football drives the bus and the NFL is king, but the second most popular sport is probably college football across the country, it is probably close to the NBA.

College basketball is pretty far down the list nationally. Obviously people love March Madness ( how could you not?), but not many people watch regular season college hoops.

Football is the best bet to create revenue and interest. UNLV has invested heavily this direction, like they should have done 30 years ago. Top paid coaching staff in the conference, with great facilities and a spaceship for a home field. This is why dropping football would be idiotic.

I do think The UNLV does have the potential to be an above average basketball school in terms of attendance. think it may be difficulty to get to averaging 15k per home game, without some serious success. But I think fans will start showing up 12k ish if we get to the top 30 range, winning some notable games. But it would have to be somewhat sustained over time.
 
dcut03 said:
It is a football country, by far.

Vegas was a basketball town, and in many ways it still is. Mostly because that was our identity as a sports city under Tark.

Vegas is also a very fluid town, with a lot of people moving in and out. The further removed from the Tark days, the population changes and I think Vegas is less of a basketball centric place, but still a very good sports town.

There is a sports bar in town for every NFL team, with more than a few duplicates.

Football drives the bus and the NFL is king, but the second most popular sport is probably college football across the country, it is probably close to the NBA.

College basketball is pretty far down the list nationally. Obviously people love March Madness ( how could you not?), but not many people watch regular season college hoops.

Football is the best bet to create revenue and interest. UNLV has invested heavily this direction, like they should have done 30 years ago. Top paid coaching staff in the conference, with great facilities and a spaceship for a home field. This is why dropping football would be idiotic.

I do think The UNLV does have the potential to be an above average basketball school in terms of attendance. think it may be difficulty to get to averaging 15k per home game, without some serious success. But I think fans will start showing up 12k ish if we get to the top 30 range, winning some notable games. But it would have to be somewhat sustained over time.
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But let’s be clear … UNLV morphing from being basketball centric has nothing to do with any plan or any vision. It’s because UNLV failed with the money maker. Coaches aren’t failing because of a shift in focus. They’re just failing. That failure is a driver for change.

If UNLV were an NCAAT regularly, if UNLV had even modest success like SDSU (very solid program. Not dominant, but prominent), basketball would still be the focus and the driver at UNLV. Instead the program needs a bailout - with money, leniency, emotion, expectations.
 
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j. spilotro said:
But let’s be clear … UNLV morphing from being basketball centric has nothing to do with any plan or any vision. It’s because UNLV failed with the money maker. Coaches aren’t failing because of a shift in focus. They’re just failing. That failure is a driver for change.

If UNLV were an NCAAT regularly, if UNLV had even modest success like SDSU (very solid program. Not dominant, but prominent), basketball would still be the focus and the driver at UNLV. Instead the program needs a bailout - with money, leniency, emotion, expectations.
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I 100% agree.

But we haven't done that, and because of the prolonged mediocrity in basketball, it's money generated power has diminished.

But across the country college basketball has had a reduction in attendance. Even with some level of sustained success, there is good chance of taking a hit

But football has more revenue generating potential that is for sure. It also doesn't hurt that we have a big venue so potential goes up a bit from that.

It's tougher out of P5, but I would imagine that schools like BYU even Boise create more revenue than "basketball schools" even like Gonzaga, or the top Big East schools.

I would bet SDSU makes more from football then basketball, and they have been good in both.

Football drives the bus for p5 ( though we may be SOL at this point with the PAC apparently excluding us).
 
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As for revenue, I do have a theory about UNLV when it comes to ratings.

It does seem, that even despite our mediocrity, UNLV does have have pretty good ratings when it comes to broadcasts. I think fans still are lurking, and they don't want to show up, but they will still tune in.

Even with football, we had a lot of CBS games on TV, with few if any FSN games. CBS gets first dibs, and it seems like they ate up as many games as they could. Same with basketball.

Despite mediocre to poor results on the field and court, we have traditionally are at or near the top with coaching salaries in the league. And this is without much booster support.

Same regents as UNR, but TJ was the highest paid coach in State History at the time, which was replaced by Arroyo, which was then replaced by Odom.

UNLV does have earning potential. Which is good, meaning that there is a built in fan base that is at least interested enough to be potential fans.

Though I think there are a decent amount of fans, like me, that no longer are local. But still all support, even remote, helps the bottom line.
 
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dcut03 said:
As for revenue, I do have a theory about UNLV when it comes to ratings.

It does seem, that even despite our mediocrity, UNLV does have have pretty good ratings when it comes to broadcasts. I think fans still are lurking, and they don't want to show up, but they will still tune in.

Even with football, we had a lot of CBS games on TV, with few if any FSN games. CBS gets first dibs, and it seems like they ate up as many games as they could. Same with basketball.

Despite mediocre to poor results on the field and court, we have traditionally are at or near the top with coaching salaries in the league. And this is without much booster support.

Same regents as UNR, but TJ was the highest paid coach in State History at the time, which was replaced by Arroyo, which was then replaced by Odom.

UNLV does have earning potential. Which is good, meaning that there is a built in fan base that is at least interested enough to be potential fans.

Though I think there are a decent amount of fans, like me, that no longer are local. But still all support, even remote, helps the bottom line.
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I agree. I think Vegas is a different sort of town. More like a small version of LA. There are lots of other things to do, so if the team doesn't put out a good product, people will choose to do the other things. Unfortunately, since our population is much less than LA, we don't have the same margins as they do, or number of fans. But even UCLA and USC have attendance problems when their teams aren't playing well.

We're not like the SEC teams that have had generations of fans supporting them, or even like U of A in Tucson where there's just not a lot else to do. It's a unique city, so unless we put forth a good product on the field / court / etc, it will be tough to draw the crowds.

Vegas was never a hockey town, but look what happened when the Knights came, and started performing well. If they regularly finish in the bottom half of the division for 5 years though, I'd expect attendance would drop significantly.
 
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