The RJ's UAB article

[LasVegasReb]

• Most of the fans interested in UNLV football right now are die hards. They are not your typical fans who are likely to go away because of a low win season.
• Sanchez has provided some new hope and some 'new' fans. However lets not overstate this amount of new fans. Its not like he just doubled the season ticket base.
• Furthermore, some of the new fans will know its going to take time and some others will go away. Even these new fans are understand the challenges affecting next season including a new round of coaches, a strong turnover of starters and a line up including UCLA, Michigan, Boise State and Northern Illinois.
• 2016 season will be a little better with a softened OOC schedule of Central Michigan and Idaho. UCLA is also scheduled but at least we can win 2 of 3 versus an ohfer. BYU is an option for 2016 or 2017, so I say keep them in 2017. I think winning games is critical and scheduling P5 powerhouse will pay but at the cost of fans. We need a better balanced OOC schedule (one lower-P5, one G5, one FCS). We need to sacrifice paydays for a couple years.
• Hopefully, Sanchez will be successful in getting the university to make football a priority, increase boosters and donors, add better facilities and increase marketing which in turn should increase recruiting. We seen good signs that he has the ability to do these things. If he can get it done on the coaching side and wins games that UNLV is supposed to win, steal some others and be competitive in all of them, he will win over the fans.
• No one expects a HS coach turn FBS coach to be successful. So I'm not sure I understand your doom and gloom scenario. If he isn't able to do it, the blame will be placed on the fact he was a HS coach and UNLV needs to go the big time hire route. If he is successful, imagine the amount of press UNLV will continue to reap.

 

[Rebel1986]

Actually, they may end up doubling the season ticket base, but considering how low that was, that still not really that many fans. I believe UNLV only had around 3k-3.5k season ticket holders last season. I would not be surprised to see that go over 5-6k due to the number of companies that are starting to get involved due to Sanchez. In truth, we need to have 20k season ticket holders to be at the top of the conference.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Will-
1) Folsom moved 7 to D-1 this past season and already have one signed for next season (Alabama) that is not working with less. That argument does not help your cause in anyway.
2) No offense but if you like Sanchez as you say, I would hate to see what you would post if you didn't like the guy.
3)What is so concerning about optimism from a fan base that has had no reason to have any in over 10 years? Nobody expects this to turn around overnight. This program NEEDS optimism not the redundant pessimistic rhetoric. We get it, it might be a bumpy ride. Everybody knows this. Why do you continually feel the need to throw every single move that this program makes under the bus? If its not you complaining about there not being enough local recruiting, you complain about Sanchez' lack of experience, or how Cotton and Baer were terrible at their previous stops and didn't make bowl games. We get it...
4) I could be mistaken on the exact total but since the Sanchez hire, UNLV football's twitter account gained something like 500+ followers. Its not a ton but at least the needle is pointing up.
5)You see a dark time if the team continues to win 2 games over the next four years? That is arguably the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. That is basically saying the last 4 were absolute football bliss. Again there is NO difference between 2-10 or 1-11 or 3-9. All of those records put you in the bottom of whatever conference you play in. Every fan on this forum and everyone I have spoken to in person has specifically said, the same thing, the record in years 1 and 2 aren't what are important. They simply want to see some consistency, a better prepared team and a gradual increase in the talent level on the field. I have yet to meet or know one person that follows UNLV football and expects us to be playing in a bowl game year 1 or 2.
6)Again if the program is going to fold up the tents why would the University just purchase a huge plot of land?
7) What worries me is that you actually have the ear of a lot of local players. If you give them the same story as you post here I can see why none of them would want to play at UNLV.
8) You got on your soap box and complained that Sanchez didn't recruit locally. Now he is offering kids in Las Vegas and not hardly a word from you. Seems a bit unfair that you would post time and time again about how local talent is passed on. Yet when he starts sending out offers to local players hardly a peep from you. I would think if you really wanted to help build excitement for the program you would do some quick write ups for us on the local kids Sanchez has offered. And on that topic, Sanchez did not have time to build relationships to recruit local kids this season. He utilized the relationships that his staff had already built at their previous stops. It was a smart move. And even with that short window he brought in 2 top 10 local prospects and would have had a third had Nela stayed. Not bad for not having anytime. Add to that he put walk on status to a couple of other local kids as well with Peterson and Lake. Yet nothing from you telling us what we could expect from any of those guys. All those players you said he got from under rocks were recruits that already had relationships with either Coach C from the previous staff or relationships with the other members of the staff.
9)You see trends with constant season ticket reminders? That's called advertising and pushing a product. So what if they piggy back basketball? Any publicity is good publicity. I hope they keep doing it.

Lastly there were only 3.5k season ticket holders last year. My guess is that most of those are people that have had their season tickets 5-10-15-20 years. I'm pretty sure that a few more 2-3 win seasons aren't going to scare them off.

 

[Rebel1986]

Bull - It did not gain 500 follower, they had no UNLV football twitter account prior to Sanchez. Coach Hauck had them cancel the old account when he came on board. Currently the UNLV football account has about 2400 follower from 0 and Sanchez has about 3200 followers. SDSU football has been around about 4 years and only has about 3300 followers. It would be nice to start passing up the accounts for other schools. unr has about 8200 followers on an account that I believe is about 6 years old.

UNLV account is about 6 months old.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

1986-
Thanks for the correction on that. Maybe I was thinking of a tweet about how many new followers Coach Sanchez had gained recently.

Your information actually proves our point further. Despite Will's doom and gloom rhetoric there is some optimism that this move can work. And the fact that a twitter account went from 0 to 2400 followers in that time shows there is some growing interest and people are paying attention.


Las Vegas is a wait and see town.That said it will not take a winning season for Coach Sanchez to start building up the fan base. All it will take is signs of improvement.

Next years recruiting class has already started well with the verbal from two of the top offensive line prospects in Las Vegas and Altee Tenpenny.

One last note, has anybody noticed how many events Coach Sanchez has been attending recently and speaking at. The guy is everywhere. Not something you could say about Hauck or Sanford.

 

[willlevi]

Will-
1) Folsom moved 7 to D-1 this past season and already have one signed for next season (Alabama) that is not working with less. That argument does not help your cause in anyway.
2) No offense but if you like Sanchez as you say, I would hate to see what you would post if you didn't like the guy.
3)What is so concerning about optimism from a fan base that has had no reason to have any in over 10 years? Nobody expects this to turn around overnight. This program NEEDS optimism not the redundant pessimistic rhetoric. We get it, it might be a bumpy ride. Everybody knows this. Why do you continually feel the need to throw every single move that this program makes under the bus? If its not you complaining about there not being enough local recruiting, you complain about Sanchez' lack of experience, or how Cotton and Baer were terrible at their previous stops and didn't make bowl games. We get it...
4) I could be mistaken on the exact total but since the Sanchez hire, UNLV football's twitter account gained something like 500+ followers. Its not a ton but at least the needle is pointing up.
5)You see a dark time if the team continues to win 2 games over the next four years? That is arguably the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. That is basically saying the last 4 were absolute football bliss. Again there is NO difference between 2-10 or 1-11 or 3-9. All of those records put you in the bottom of whatever conference you play in. Every fan on this forum and everyone I have spoken to in person has specifically said, the same thing, the record in years 1 and 2 aren't what are important. They simply want to see some consistency, a better prepared team and a gradual increase in the talent level on the field. I have yet to meet or know one person that follows UNLV football and expects us to be playing in a bowl game year 1 or 2.
6)Again if the program is going to fold up the tents why would the University just purchase a huge plot of land?
7) What worries me is that you actually have the ear of a lot of local players. If you give them the same story as you post here I can see why none of them would want to play at UNLV.
8) You got on your soap box and complained that Sanchez didn't recruit locally. Now he is offering kids in Las Vegas and not hardly a word from you. Seems a bit unfair that you would post time and time again about how local talent is passed on. Yet when he starts sending out offers to local players hardly a peep from you. I would think if you really wanted to help build excitement for the program you would do some quick write ups for us on the local kids Sanchez has offered. And on that topic, Sanchez did not have time to build relationships to recruit local kids this season. He utilized the relationships that his staff had already built at their previous stops. It was a smart move. And even with that short window he brought in 2 top 10 local prospects and would have had a third had Nela stayed. Not bad for not having anytime. Add to that he put walk on status to a couple of other local kids as well with Peterson and Lake. Yet nothing from you telling us what we could expect from any of those guys. All those players you said he got from under rocks were recruits that already had relationships with either Coach C from the previous staff or relationships with the other members of the staff.
9)You see trends with constant season ticket reminders? That's called advertising and pushing a product. So what if they piggy back basketball? Any publicity is good publicity. I hope they keep doing it.

Lastly there were only 3.5k season ticket holders last year. My guess is that most of those are people that have had their season tickets 5-10-15-20 years. I'm pretty sure that a few more 2-3 win seasons aren't going to scare them off.

1> Look at past Folsom teams from the run.
Overall, Folsom's coaches won't be hired away as a college head coach.

2> It not about liking a guy, its about critiquing the ability to coach UNLV at this level and build.

3> I predict a winless season. Idaho State is a bad match up for this defense, especially after UCLA and a trip to Michigan. San Jose State and Hawaii has better depth though its possible to steal a game.

4> I know its a new twitter account but many of the people are either coaches or athletes trying to be recruited. Not so heavy on fans.

5> As I said before, I see 0 wins this year.
Sanford had a 30% retention rate (to senior season or graduation) on high school recruits during his time here and 36% on transfers (JC or transfer).
Hauck had a 53% retention rate on high school signees from his first two class that you can grade and 33% on just 8 transfers.
Sanchez seems to have a scattershot recruiting philosophy that bigger on dreams than a focused reality. There isn't a focus on a particular style, region and production. We will see how many has the desire to stick around for a rebuild.

6> I think they want to get it built but you still need local support. Plans are just plans until you find the means to get it done

7> A player decision on where to play is between he and his familiy. That said, I would never bad mouth UNLV and I have a preference to see kids stay home to play and build the program.

8> He offered 7 kids, specifically linemen that I highlighted before.
RB Rhamondre Stevenson has some classroom stuff to make up and get eligible but there is a great group of linebackers (C Thomas, G Motl, B Jones, T Jones, K Toomer, R Nelson), three impressive pass catchers (Hubert, Acosta and Macklin), cornerbacks (D Clayton, J Hunt, A Lawson,V Jackson) that would all continue to upgrade the team.
Toomer is actually the son of a former UNLV leading rusher and his brother was a mid round Seattle Seahawks selection.
I actually encourage players to take a walk on route as the JC route has too many pit falls and there isn't an instate option to play for a two year school. Better to redshirt at a four year school and transfer out later if you don't gain the opportunity than to play while to spending 3 years trying to graduate from a JC while struggling with housing, transportation and out of state tuition.
The hard part with being a walk on is getting quality reps competing with the scholarship players that actually cost money. As a player, you have to remain mentally resilient. Walkons LB Tim Hasson, LB Tau Lotulelei, WR Maika Mataele and DT Alex Klorman were a key reason the team made it to a bowl game two years ago.

9> Last season 4038 season tickets were sold and 3901 the year before.
Its TBD this year but Idaho State is the next home game after NIU, UCLA, and Michigan. It should be a good indication of how many people will buy in.
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/jan/31/unlv-football-season-ticket-sales-could-spike-beca/?

Hey, we are three months and a day short of game one.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Will-
1) In regards to Folsom...If the coach there had 7 players get D-1 offers, this season and another that is slated for next year at Alabama. That would probably mean that those same players were a part of this coaches run for at least the last two years and some possibly three. That is equal to half of that run. I did not go back any further to see how many D-1 or FCS prospects Folsom produced prior to last year. Either way you are completely wrong to say that Sanchez had more to work with especially this year. The facts are plain the Folsom coach has had a loaded team for at least the last two seasons. You continuing arguing this point is ridiculous when the facts disprove your opinion. Your point is mute.

2) Ok so it isn't about liking a guy and your are critiquing his ability to coach at the Division 1 level. What was your critique on Sanford was he a good or bad hire? How about Hauck his resume sure looked good coming in. Coach Sanchez turned around a dreadful program in California. He then took over Gorman, and while there are the advantages with that job namely facilities and his ability to 'recruit', he made it into a dominant program. Gorman was rarely if ever tested locally. He also beat other ranked high schools this past year. You also continuously ignore the experience of this staff. I am pretty sure Coach Sanchez will defer to his coordinators plenty. You act as if the guy lived in Europe the last 10 years and the only Football he knows is the kind spelled like this Futbol.

3)You predict 0 wins this year. Ok. Great. And most people on this forum are predicting between 2-4 wins this year. So tell me again where all the excessive optimism is? Tell me how everyone is so blind. We are returning a team that won 2 games last year. If you look at last year a number of games were within a score heading into halftime. For whatever reason things fell apart in the second half.

4)This is great, now he has a scatter shot recruiting philosophy. Ok lets break this down one more time. He came in late to the process. He took advantage of the fact that all of his newly hired staff had ALREADY BUILT relationships with players. He added in two local kids as well. He brought in Kreitler from Juco, who also happens to have played with Decker. This was a smart move in my opinion. Blake took an absolute beating last year and he may feel more confidant having Will at center. And despite your ranting that Kreitler was to small, he was the one offensive linemen that the coaching staff pointed to as having a great spring. Funny how you had him 2nd on the depth chart and the kid is going to start. Again this goes back to your continued rhetoric about not recruiting locally. He did not have the time to do it this year. How hard is that for you to understand. In the short time he had he grabbed arguably the best local offensive line product, and a kid with some real upside in Johnson and almost had Nela. Based on your own personal rankings all three of those kids were top 15 local recruits. He already locked down two more locals for next year. Again they are playing a numbers game. Some of the kids they hope to get on selling a rebuild. Some they are hoping fall victim to the numbers game and land in their lap. He is recruiting Las Vegas now so please give up on that already. He offered 7 kids here. How many are already committed to other schools that he has no chance of getting? Also what he is doing makes sense. Look at this year. He offered Thomas and Campbell scholarships and got Peterson and Lake as walk on players. How is that a bad thing. He got to solid local players and did not have to burn a scholarship to do it. Now I can understand where you might say that it wasn't fair for the local kids not to get offers or you could argue the local kids were better players and more deserving of the scholarship. I can see with your connection to the kids where that might be upsetting. But to say his recruiting style is scatter shot or flawed is wrong. The bottom line is if you include Lake and Peterson into this years recruiting class Sanchez brought in four pretty talented local kids. And according to you both Peterson and Lake were deserving of D-1 offers, which means he got two guys essentially for free. I see that as smart.

5)So UNLV's football Twitter account is filled with other coaches and recruits, but all those other schools accounts are filled with just fans.. This is the problem with your logic.. Also when it all comes down to it, UNLV's twitter account will make .0000000000000000000009% of a difference in the success or failure of the program.

6) You never bad mouth UNLV? On these boards you constantly point out the failures and how Coach Sanchez was the wrong choice. Sorry but I don't see that as a ringing endorsement.

I have to ask, if Coach Sanchez wasn't the right hire, then who was. And before you give your answer make sure its somebody that isn't a coordinator somewhere making more than we pay our head coach.

 

[willlevi]

Will-
1) In regards to Folsom...If the coach there had 7 players get D-1 offers, this season and another that is slated for next year at Alabama. That would probably mean that those same players were a part of this coaches run for at least the last two years and some possibly three. That is equal to half of that run. I did not go back any further to see how many D-1 or FCS prospects Folsom produced prior to last year. Either way you are completely wrong to say that Sanchez had more to work with especially this year. The facts are plain the Folsom coach has had a loaded team for at least the last two seasons. You continuing arguing this point is ridiculous when the facts disprove your opinion. Your point is mute.

2) Ok so it isn't about liking a guy and your are critiquing his ability to coach at the Division 1 level. What was your critique on Sanford was he a good or bad hire? How about Hauck his resume sure looked good coming in. Coach Sanchez turned around a dreadful program in California. He then took over Gorman, and while there are the advantages with that job namely facilities and his ability to 'recruit', he made it into a dominant program. Gorman was rarely if ever tested locally. He also beat other ranked high schools this past year. You also continuously ignore the experience of this staff. I am pretty sure Coach Sanchez will defer to his coordinators plenty. You act as if the guy lived in Europe the last 10 years and the only Football he knows is the kind spelled like this Futbol.

3)You predict 0 wins this year. Ok. Great. And most people on this forum are predicting between 2-4 wins this year. So tell me again where all the excessive optimism is? Tell me how everyone is so blind. We are returning a team that won 2 games last year. If you look at last year a number of games were within a score heading into halftime. For whatever reason things fell apart in the second half.

4)This is great, now he has a scatter shot recruiting philosophy. Ok lets break this down one more time. He came in late to the process. He took advantage of the fact that all of his newly hired staff had ALREADY BUILT relationships with players. He added in two local kids as well. He brought in Kreitler from Juco, who also happens to have played with Decker. This was a smart move in my opinion. Blake took an absolute beating last year and he may feel more confidant having Will at center. And despite your ranting that Kreitler was to small, he was the one offensive linemen that the coaching staff pointed to as having a great spring. Funny how you had him 2nd on the depth chart and the kid is going to start. Again this goes back to your continued rhetoric about not recruiting locally. He did not have the time to do it this year. How hard is that for you to understand. In the short time he had he grabbed arguably the best local offensive line product, and a kid with some real upside in Johnson and almost had Nela. Based on your own personal rankings all three of those kids were top 15 local recruits. He already locked down two more locals for next year. Again they are playing a numbers game. Some of the kids they hope to get on selling a rebuild. Some they are hoping fall victim to the numbers game and land in their lap. He is recruiting Las Vegas now so please give up on that already. He offered 7 kids here. How many are already committed to other schools that he has no chance of getting? Also what he is doing makes sense. Look at this year. He offered Thomas and Campbell scholarships and got Peterson and Lake as walk on players. How is that a bad thing. He got to solid local players and did not have to burn a scholarship to do it. Now I can understand where you might say that it wasn't fair for the local kids not to get offers or you could argue the local kids were better players and more deserving of the scholarship. I can see with your connection to the kids where that might be upsetting. But to say his recruiting style is scatter shot or flawed is wrong. The bottom line is if you include Lake and Peterson into this years recruiting class Sanchez brought in four pretty talented local kids. And according to you both Peterson and Lake were deserving of D-1 offers, which means he got two guys essentially for free. I see that as smart.

5)So UNLV's football Twitter account is filled with other coaches and recruits, but all those other schools accounts are filled with just fans.. This is the problem with your logic.. Also when it all comes down to it, UNLV's twitter account will make .0000000000000000000009% of a difference in the success or failure of the program.

6) You never bad mouth UNLV? On these boards you constantly point out the failures and how Coach Sanchez was the wrong choice. Sorry but I don't see that as a ringing endorsement.

I have to ask, if Coach Sanchez wasn't the right hire, then who was. And before you give your answer make sure its somebody that isn't a coordinator somewhere making more than we pay our head coach.

We will have the opportunity to continue this debate in the future as both of our points are opinion based right now.

2> Sanford was a good coach but tended to overrate prospects as he missed heavily on locating productive players. He missed on every quarterback he offered a scholarship beyond Herring (who developed under Hauck) and Frank Summers was his only productive running back missing on every high school back he added to the program. His attempts to recruit Florida, Maryland and Texas led to 0 impact players during his tenure from those area wasting a heavy amount of scholarships.
His focus on Christian athletes and heavy hand at dismissing players also led to limited depth.

Hauck did an excellent job identifying players and rebuilding what was a very poor roster when he started. His game day decision ensured a poor career record here. The losses to New Mexico and Hawaii were head scratching as well as the near loss to Northern Colorado. The NIU game was 34-34 and would have been tied minus the Blake Decker end zone interception.
Last year's team could have easily won 5 games minus Decker's turnovers and the defensive deficiencies versus the run. He tended to recruit lightly at linebacker keying the failures of last year's team.

As for your Gorman dominating statement, Gorman needed six major transfers (Jabari Butler, Cordell Broadus, Tate Martell, Tyjon Lindsey, Nela Otukolo and Haskell Garrett) to win last season. They weren't just good players, they were the key players on the team. That's not developing a program, that's using the high profile of the school to give you the advantage on the field and they also used footballs so deflated that they could be indented with the squeeze of a hand.
The fact is that Gorman barely beat Bingham (UT) [23-20 OT], Centennial-Corona (CA) [43-42 on 2pt conversion] and St John Bosco (CA) [34-31]. Outstanding high school football teams but still high school teams.
The instate facts are that Gorman had a major out-of-state transfer program and a recruiting like process for bringing top local athletes in to play that provided a major advantage that went beyond coaching skills on game day.
I give credit to the dominating Arbor View win, they saw the match up problem with tight end Alize Jones and exploited it to run the option based Aggies out of the stadium in the first half.
That said, many times they padded the score in the fourth quarter after the team conceded that made the score more impressive.
Here is a breakdown; Gorman only led Palo Verde 28-0 until scoring in the final minute of the 3rd quarter scoring a game sealing touchdown versus the option based Panthers. They added 14 4th quarter points to win 49-0.
Minus defensive tackle Greg Rogers (the team's only plus size lineman), Centennial HS was down 35-7 at the beginning of the 4th quarter before Gorman added 17 points to win 52-7.
Against Liberty, Gorman had a 23-0 at half before adding an early 3rd quarter touchdown to make it 30-0. They added 20 4th quarter points to win 50-0.
The Reed game was actually tied 21-21 before two Gorman touchdown in the final 1:37 before the half to move ahead 35-21. Up 49-28 at the end of the 3rd quarter, Gorman added 21 4th quarter points in the last 9 minutes to win 70-28.

I believe if you win you win but not everything is fair and not every score reflects the process of a game.

 

[LasVegasReb]

We will have the opportunity to continue this debate in the future as both of our points are opinion based right now.

2> Sanford was a good coach but tended to overrate prospects as he missed heavily on locating productive players. He missed on every quarterback he offered a scholarship beyond Herring (who developed under Hauck) and Frank Summers was his only productive running back missing on every high school back he added to the program. His attempts to recruit Florida, Maryland and Texas led to 0 impact players during his tenure from those area wasting a heavy amount of scholarships.
His focus on Christian athletes and heavy hand at dismissing players also led to limited depth.

Hauck did an excellent job identifying players and rebuilding what was a very poor roster when he started. His game day decision ensured a poor career record here. The losses to New Mexico and Hawaii were head scratching as well as the near loss to Northern Colorado. The NIU game was 34-34 and would have been tied minus the Blake Decker end zone interception.
Last year's team could have easily won 5 games minus Decker's turnovers and the defensive deficiencies versus the run. He tended to recruit lightly at linebacker keying the failures of last year's team.

As for your Gorman dominating statement, Gorman needed six major transfers (Jabari Butler, Cordell Broadus, Tate Martell, Tyjon Lindsey, Nela Otukolo and Haskell Garrett) to win last season. They weren't just good players, they were the key players on the team. That's not developing a program, that's using the high profile of the school to give you the advantage on the field and they also used footballs so deflated that they could be indented with the squeeze of a hand.
The fact is that Gorman barely beat Bingham (UT) [23-20 OT], Centennial-Corona (CA) [43-42 on 2pt conversion] and St John Bosco (CA) [34-31]. Outstanding high school football teams but still high school teams.
The instate facts are that Gorman had a major out-of-state transfer program and a recruiting like process for bringing top local athletes in to play that provided a major advantage that went beyond coaching skills on game day.
I give credit to the dominating Arbor View win, they saw the match up problem with tight end Alize Jones and exploited it to run the option based Aggies out of the stadium in the first half.
That said, many times they padded the score in the fourth quarter after the team conceded that made the score more impressive.
Here is a breakdown; Gorman only led Palo Verde 28-0 until scoring in the final minute of the 3rd quarter scoring a game sealing touchdown versus the option based Panthers. They added 14 4th quarter points to win 49-0.
Minus defensive tackle Greg Rogers (the team's only plus size lineman), Centennial HS was down 35-7 at the beginning of the 4th quarter before Gorman added 17 points to win 52-7.
Against Liberty, Gorman had a 23-0 at half before adding an early 3rd quarter touchdown to make it 30-0. They added 20 4th quarter points to win 50-0.
The Reed game was actually tied 21-21 before two Gorman touchdown in the final 1:37 before the half to move ahead 35-21. Up 49-28 at the end of the 3rd quarter, Gorman added 21 4th quarter points in the last 9 minutes to win 70-28.

I believe if you win you win but not everything is fair and not every score reflects the process of a game.

+1 Sanford
+1 Hauck

Great assessments of each.

-1 Gorman scoreboard. Ridiculous comparison and analysis.

 

[Rebel1986]

I do know you think that the twitter account makes no difference in getting recruits to come to UNLV, but I think you are way underestimating the importance of social media. There is no question that at least a couple of the basketball players that UNLV recruited were open about the fact they looked at how fans acted on twitter as part of their determination on coming to UNLV. Players want to know that they are wanted, and in many cases they do have an ego that they need massaged. It is not a bad thing, everyone wants a pat on the back every once in a while. Many of the better established football programs are able to use social media as a major tool in getting players to come to their schools. We still have a long ways to go to build up the social media following of football to the same level as basketball, but we need to start somewhere or get left in the dust.

Some of the good examples in regards to how social media can help in sports are as follows:

Point out the large number of Hawaiian students that attend UNLV, and the fact that Las Vegas is considered the ninth island of Hawaii shows many of these players that they will not be alone and is a big selling point compared to going to a school with very few Polynesian players and students.

Pointing out how many changes and improvements Sanchez has made to the program may not get a player to decide to attend UNLV, but it may be enough that they decide to make a visit. Sanchez and staff can sell the program if they get the kids to visit.

Sanchez has made a huge deal of being involved in social media and showing the residents of Las Vegas that he is involved in the community and that he wants their support. I have no doubt that many season and individual ticket sales will be due to Sanchez going to Rotary Club meetings, school graduations, parking openings, etc., etc.. While many people do still watch the news, there are just as many who keep up on the news through social media which includes Facebook, Twitter, etc.,

If you do not believe me, ask some of these kids who are being recruited if they think social media makes any difference in what schools they visit and even in some cases end up attending.

 

[LasVegasReb]

I do know you think that the twitter account makes no difference in getting recruits to come to UNLV, but I think you are way underestimating the importance of social media. There is no question that at least a couple of the basketball players that UNLV recruited were open about the fact they looked at how fans acted on twitter as part of their determination on coming to UNLV. Players want to know that they are wanted, and in many cases they do have an ego that they need massaged. It is not a bad thing, everyone wants a pat on the back every once in a while. Many of the better established football programs are able to use social media as a major tool in getting players to come to their schools. We still have a long ways to go to build up the social media following of football to the same level as basketball, but we need to start somewhere or get left in the dust.

Some of the good examples in regards to how social media can help in sports are as follows:

Point out the large number of Hawaiian students that attend UNLV, and the fact that Las Vegas is considered the ninth island of Hawaii shows many of these players that they will not be alone and is a big selling point compared to going to a school with very few Polynesian players and students.

Pointing out how many changes and improvements Sanchez has made to the program may not get a player to decide to attend UNLV, but it may be enough that they decide to make a visit. Sanchez and staff can sell the program if they get the kids to visit.

Sanchez has made a huge deal of being involved in social media and showing the residents of Las Vegas that he is involved in the community and that he wants their support. I have no doubt that many season and individual ticket sales will be due to Sanchez going to Rotary Club meetings, school graduations, parking openings, etc., etc.. While many people do still watch the news, there are just as many who keep up on the news through social media which includes Facebook, Twitter, etc.,

If you do not believe me, ask some of these kids who are being recruited if they think social media makes any difference in what schools they visit and even in some cases end up attending.

I would bet that Sanchez has been repping UNLV at social events in the little time here than Hauck did his entire tenure.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Will-
1)Agree with you on Hauck and Sanford. One thing I will say is that Coach C who was retained for this staff has been very good a bringing in Houston area talent, namely D. Davis and Tim Cornett. Sanford missed badly with every QB he brought in. Also Caleb had one good season, and that came after of being moved to WR and back to QB the following season.

2) It isn't about transfers Will it is about the results on the field. Gorman routinely destroyed local schools. While that may seem like an easy thing to do, I also think it show. I do not care who transferred in, it is not relevant to the discussion. Next you go on to say that they 'barely' beat three high school teams. First of all Gorman is a high school team. Secondly barely beating is irrelevant to the discussion. They beat two if not three ranked teams last year. This is not college football where margin of victory matters. I only point out that they easily beat local schools to show that Coach Sanchez was able to keep this team focused despite their rock star treatment and having a reality show being filmed during the season. How many coaches in the NFL like having Hard Knock filmed. They hate it, they hate the distraction. They are worried about guys getting paid becoming distracted. Coach Sanchez kept his kids in line. Will as much as you hate it, they won. They dominated the teams they were supposed to and beat three teams that were very good outside of Las Vegas.

3) These statements by you only prove you are completely biased on this topic and unable to be objective in any way shape or form. It really hurts your credibility in any topic revolving around Gorman or Coach Sanchez.

"I give credit to the dominating Arbor View win, they saw the match up problem with tight end Alize Jones and exploited it to run the option based Aggies out of the stadium in the first half.
That said, many times they padded the score in the fourth quarter after the team conceded that made the score more impressive.
Here is a breakdown; Gorman only led Palo Verde 28-0 until scoring in the final minute of the 3rd quarter scoring a game sealing touchdown versus the option based Panthers. They added 14 4th quarter points to win 49-0.
Minus defensive tackle Greg Rogers (the team's only plus size lineman), Centennial HS was down 35-7 at the beginning of the 4th quarter before Gorman added 17 points to win 52-7.
Against Liberty, Gorman had a 23-0 at half before adding an early 3rd quarter touchdown to make it 30-0. They added 20 4th quarter points to win 50-0."

You give credit for dominating Arbor View, because they saw a match up problem with Jones and exploited. Great you give coach Sanchez credit for making a good coaching decision which you usually refuse to do. Gorman only lead Palo 28-0? And then scored a 3rd quarter TD sealing the win vs the Panthers. So they were beating them 35-0 heading into the 4th Qtr. Thats dominating any way you spin it. Centennial was down by 4 scores in the fourth quarter, that is also being dominated. Gorman was up over three TDs at halftime vs Liberty and that is somehow not good enough. Only Reed gave them any type of a game and that was for a half. Credit to Reed for not folding up the tents.

Nothing in those posts supports your argument in any way shape or form. It was foolish to bring any of that up as it only further shows how much they dominated teams in Las Vegas. The fact that you would even show those stats confuses me, because it actually proves my point. They outscored those three Vegas teams 151-7. Even if you take the piling on as you call it they lead those teams by a combined 93-7. Sorry Will that is pretty dominant as well.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I do know you think that the twitter account makes no difference in getting recruits to come to UNLV, but I think you are way underestimating the importance of social media. There is no question that at least a couple of the basketball players that UNLV recruited were open about the fact they looked at how fans acted on twitter as part of their determination on coming to UNLV. Players want to know that they are wanted, and in many cases they do have an ego that they need massaged. It is not a bad thing, everyone wants a pat on the back every once in a while. Many of the better established football programs are able to use social media as a major tool in getting players to come to their schools. We still have a long ways to go to build up the social media following of football to the same level as basketball, but we need to start somewhere or get left in the dust.

Some of the good examples in regards to how social media can help in sports are as follows:

Point out the large number of Hawaiian students that attend UNLV, and the fact that Las Vegas is considered the ninth island of Hawaii shows many of these players that they will not be alone and is a big selling point compared to going to a school with very few Polynesian players and students.

Pointing out how many changes and improvements Sanchez has made to the program may not get a player to decide to attend UNLV, but it may be enough that they decide to make a visit. Sanchez and staff can sell the program if they get the kids to visit.

Sanchez has made a huge deal of being involved in social media and showing the residents of Las Vegas that he is involved in the community and that he wants their support. I have no doubt that many season and individual ticket sales will be due to Sanchez going to Rotary Club meetings, school graduations, parking openings, etc., etc.. While many people do still watch the news, there are just as many who keep up on the news through social media which includes Facebook, Twitter, etc.,

If you do not believe me, ask some of these kids who are being recruited if they think social media makes any difference in what schools they visit and even in some cases end up attending.

If you are referring to my .000000009% line, I wasn't really intending to bash the social media aspect, I just thought it odd Will would use it as another sign of the impending doom associated with Coach Sanchez.

In my opinion social media can play a role in the recruiting process and can have a positive effect. I do not think it ranks up as high as things like new facilities, new uniforms or a coaches vision but it does have its part in the process no doubt. I am active on twitter following recruits, tweeting congrats, re-tweeting anything revolving around the football program.

Honestly I see the importance of social media I just found it ridiculous Will would use twitter numbers to base his argument of how little excitement there is over UNLV football. I agree with all your points, I probably shouldn't have minimized the effect of social media to the degree I did.

On a side note I agree all of these appearances by Coach Sanchez are important. Not just for getting people excited about UNLV football, but also trying to get more prospective boosters. Get the community excited enough about the program to get some folks to open their wallets for fund raising and season tickets. .

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I would bet that Sanchez has been repping UNLV at social events in the little time here than Hauck did his entire tenure.

He has been really active in the community. I think he is doing everything possible to drum up some excitement about the program. I also have to imagine that he is working some of these crowds for potential booster money.

 

[j. spilotro]

He has been really active in the community. I think he is doing everything possible to drum up some excitement about the program. I also have to imagine that he is working some of these crowds for potential booster money.

It's been a short time, but he's done everything "right". Ultimately, comes down to wins and losses of course. But it seems like some people want to raise the bar to unrealistic expectations so they can claim failure when it's not reached. Setting somebody up for failure just isn't right.

When it's all said and done, when Sanchez is done here, whether it be leaving for another school or a dismissal, the question is - is he program in better shape than when he arrived? At a big school, that pretty much means wins and losses and bowl games. At UNLV, since it's in such bad shape all around, you HAVE to include the other things - is the program doing better financially, did the infrastructure get stronger, facilities improve, etc. The only time there was a palpable culture change is with JRob and it was short lived, UNLV didn't capitalize on it. His teams didn't always win, sometimes they weren't competitive, but it felt more like a football program because the players had a different attitude - it wasn't that defeated attitude we've seen the past several seasons. IMO of course.

If/when some of the things I'm hearing actually happen, UNLV should be in much better shape in those peripheral areas. I can't say about the wins and losses. I don't think anybody can accurately predict those with any certainty. But the guy deserves a long leash given where UNLV is at and has been. The last couple of coaches did absolutely nothing to improve the program as a whole.

 

[rebel Homer]

I can't believe you guys are still going at it. Neither of you are going to see each other's points. Fact remains, Sanchez wasn't brought in to be the next Urban Meyer. We needed something, we went and got it. End of story. Anything else is just a plus in my book.

 

[LVRebel2000]

I kind of enjoy the banter. At least it gives me something to read. I think this coming year was going to be a very tough year, regardless of who the coach is, based on the tough schedule. The fact that we had opportunities to win several games this last year but continually made poor decisions gives me hope that with a new coaching regime, maybe we pull out some of those close games instead of giving them away. If I never see another fake punt or field goal, I'll be okay with that. No more running straight up the middle on first and second down almost every series...yeah, I'm okay with that. I honestly don't know what to expect next season, but I know that I was thoroughly unimpressed with the results last year, coming off of a solid year prior to it. I'm excited to be hearing about and talking about football this offseason. I like hearing about who we're recruiting, who's signing, etc.

Is anything going on with the team currently? Any summer workouts going on? When does the team get together for the first official practice?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

It's been a short time, but he's done everything "right". Ultimately, comes down to wins and losses of course. But it seems like some people want to raise the bar to unrealistic expectations so they can claim failure when it's not reached. Setting somebody up for failure just isn't right.

When it's all said and done, when Sanchez is done here, whether it be leaving for another school or a dismissal, the question is - is he program in better shape than when he arrived? At a big school, that pretty much means wins and losses and bowl games. At UNLV, since it's in such bad shape all around, you HAVE to include the other things - is the program doing better financially, did the infrastructure get stronger, facilities improve, etc. The only time there was a palpable culture change is with JRob and it was short lived, UNLV didn't capitalize on it. His teams didn't always win, sometimes they weren't competitive, but it felt more like a football program because the players had a different attitude - it wasn't that defeated attitude we've seen the past several seasons. IMO of course.

If/when some of the things I'm hearing actually happen, UNLV should be in much better shape in those peripheral areas. I can't say about the wins and losses. I don't think anybody can accurately predict those with any certainty. But the guy deserves a long leash given where UNLV is at and has been. The last couple of coaches did absolutely nothing to improve the program as a whole.

That is all anybody can ask.Do what is right or at least make the effort.. Where Coach Sanford complained about limited resources, he did little to correct the problem. Also Sanford was not a charismatic personality, and probably wasn't great at working a room. Coach Hauck seemed like a down to earth guy and a pretty good guy at that. (Minus the whole pay thing) I just don't think he was particularly fond rubbing elbows with people and trying to sell the program He left a program in Montana that had a built in fan base and didn't have to fight for people's entertainment dollar. I think Hauck to some degree assumed it would be the same thing at UNLV. Coach Sanchez has said the culture around UNLV must change and has gone out of his way to become a public figure. He knows that he has to get people excited about UNLV football. That is a tough sell based on our history. What I believe he is tying to do is sell a goal, or a vision and wants people to get on board at the ground level and feel a part of that.

I agree we cannot totally look at W-L in 4-5 years and determine the success or failure of this hire.

I also think this is going to be a tough next two years. That said, so far it looks like Coach Sanchez, his staff and the University have a plan for the future of the program. While Coach Sanford and Hauck also probably had plans as well, they seemed not to have the full backing of the University during their tenures.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I can't believe you guys are still going at it. Neither of you are going to see each other's points. Fact remains, Sanchez wasn't brought in to be the next Urban Meyer. We needed something, we went and got it. End of story. Anything else is just a plus in my book.

It's really not about making Will see my point. I just don't like when people tell half of a story and present it as a whole. I simply like to fill in the blanks on the parts that Will conveniently leaves out.

 

[Rebel1986]

ditto

 

[willlevi]

Although some will say its not about the wins and losses, it actually is. Its always easier to talk big and rub elbows before you start losing games. When you start losing, not a lot of people care for what you have to say.
Sanchez won at a high level in high school due to being at Bishop Gorman at the right time, more so than being an excellent coach. The blue print used there doesn't translate to UNLV because he isn't bringing the biggest team on the block. I will add that neither the OC or DC has a winning career record in the position of coordinator.

 

[shanep]

So Will, what would have done differently to turn this program around? It's obvious that you disagree with the hire so please, tell us what your plan would have been. Would you have hired another FCS coach or maybe a mid-level BCS assistant? Been there, done that? How did that work the last 10 years?

They had to go bold and dangerous. They had to go get someone with a personality that was going to get people talking about the program and someone who had a vision that wasn't so vanilla.

I don't get what your hangup is. Did you want the job or know of local kids that were fringe players that didn't get an offer to play here? Why are you so afraid to just get on board and support the program with the current staff in place?

 

[bcvegaspt]

Many have coached at Gorman and during my junior and senior years there we were a .500 team. I don't think that coaches came in at "right times." Rather, I think coaches made the players and teams better.

 

[willlevi]

So Will, what would have done differently to turn this program around? It's obvious that you disagree with the hire so please, tell us what your plan would have been. Would you have hired another FCS coach or maybe a mid-level BCS assistant? Been there, done that? How did that work the last 10 years?

They had to go bold and dangerous. They had to go get someone with a personality that was going to get people talking about the program and someone who had a vision that wasn't so vanilla.

I don't get what your hangup is. Did you want the job or know of local kids that were fringe players that didn't get an offer to play here? Why are you so afraid to just get on board and support the program with the current staff in place?

When has the school ever considered a defensive coach, routinely the team's worst unit year in and year out?
Its a done deal now but it would have been smart to go with a upcoming defensive coach.

Defensive Coordinators
Utah State's DC Todd Orlando
USC's Justin Wilcox
Air Force DC Steve Russ

If you wanted local ties I would have considered
Idaho's Kris Cinkovich
UTEP's Andre Patterson

I feel it actually would have been beneficial to keep Timm Rosenbach as the OC

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Will you are full of so many opinions with what is wrong with the program and the hire of Sanchez yet you have not offered one single viable way to fix the program nor have you offered a better option for the head coaching position.

Baer and Cotton have been in the game a long time. Anybody that has resumes as long as theirs are going to have ups and downs. The genius Bill Belichik failed miserably at Cleveland for example. Baer did a fantastic job at Notre Dame and also lead a VERY good defense at San Jose State as well. He struggled at Colorado but so has just about everybody since their move to the Pac-12. Cotton has had numerous teams that have posted very good rushing numbers at all of his stops. So basically what you are saying now is that neither Baer nor Cotton are good coaches. I mean if they had losing records as coordinators they obviously can't be good coaches correct? Otherwise you would not have brought it up.

The only fix you have suggested is recruiting locally...And while I believe there is a lot of talent in the Valley you would not and could not build a competitive division one football team by primarily recruiting Las Vegas. You have to recruit other areas. Everybody does it. And before you bring up how great the talent is in Las Vegas and how we have this huge population base to get kids from, riddle me this. If the talent in Las Vegas was as great as you say it is, then why did Gorman have no problem beating any of the local high schools, yet they had their toughest game vs an instate opponent against Reed. Now if I am not mistaken Reed, is from a much smaller talent and population so how could they possibly score 28 first half points vs Gorman when three decent Las Vegas programs managed a mere 7 points total?

Yes UNLV will have to do a better job recruiting locally than in years past but it is not about the quantity of kids it is the quality of those kids. I do not think Hauck and company would have gotten Polu away from CSU. I do not think Nela would have even been in the mix either. That to me is already a victory in securing TOP local talent.

So after removing the local recruiting aspect from the equation, tell me what is your formula for rebuilding the program. Obviously the people that have been put in charge of that, don't know what they are doing and making numerous mistakes.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Ok of the names you listed which of those people would have people excited? Maybe the USC guy because he was coming from USC? This isn't to say the others aren't good coaches, but surely none of them would have people talking at the water cooler at work. Timm Rosenbach was fantastic two years ago, last year the offense was awful. We could not run the ball, we could not pass protect. While no team wants to be in third and long situations it was a death sentence for UNLV last year. Anytime a team brought a 5 rusher our QBs got killed. This went on all year long. Also his adjustments at halftime never seemed to pan out. We were very competitive in games early last season, yet fell apart both offensively and defensively in the second half of almost every game. How many games did we score on our first drive or two of the game and fail to see the end zone again the rest of the game? I wouldn't have minded him being retained, but lets not pretend like his offenses were all that explosive either. So just to be sure does Tim Rosenbach have a winning record as an assistant? If not that would put him in the Cotton and Baer group.

We brought in an Air Force defensive coordinator to run our defense a few years back and that didn't work out. I do like Orlando from Utah State.

Again could these guys solve UNLV's ultimate glaring problem which is facilities and lack of booster support?

 

[LasVegasReb]

Although some will say its not about the wins and losses, it actually is. Its always easier to talk big and rub elbows before you start losing games. When you start losing, not a lot of people care for what you have to say.
Sanchez won at a high level in high school due to being at Bishop Gorman at the right time, more so than being an excellent coach. The blue print used there doesn't translate to UNLV because he isn't bringing the biggest team on the block. I will add that neither the OC or DC has a winning career record in the position of coordinator.

So you're saying that they kind have hired monkey in a track suit and it's come up they same.

So any coach can walk into Alabama or Ohio State and win because it all set up?

Will. I really enjoy your debate and info on the game but your issue with Sanchez is a quandary. Did he really posses you off that badly?

 

[willlevi]

With the size and depth Gorman has fielded since 2007, you would have to trip over your own feet to lose a game there. All I will say is that Gorman hasn't lost more than two games in a season since opening the new campus and stadium in 2007 with Sanchez hired in 2009.
Here are Gorman's Sanchez and Altshuler's public high school records versus their time at Bishop Gorman. From good high school coach to world beaters.

Record history goes:
Tony Sanchez
Bishop Gorman records were 15-0, 13-2, 13-1, 15-1, 13-2, 15-0
His Cal HS (CA) records were 7-5, 11-2, 5-5, 8-3, 4-6

Bob Altshuler
Bishop Gorman records were 12-2, 14-0
West Valley HS (WA) records were 7-4, 6-5, 9-2

We will revisit our opinions during the season.

 

[Rebel1986]

Seriously, you are going to try and compare the record s between the two high school coaches? You are leaving a lot of things out of the equation which include how hard of a schedule they played. Playing a schedule with numerous teams ranked in the top 25 in the nation is a lot harder than playing mostly local team with a couple of mid level out of state teams thrown into the mix. There is a really good reason why the teams under Sanchez were ranked in the top 25 in the nation. Can the same be said about the teams under coach Altshuler?

I also read about how everything was handed to coach Sanchez. Who did the fund raising and construction of the training facilities at Bishop Gorman? Did Altshuler fund raise for the facilities or help get them built? Honest question since the development of a program that has struggled for year due to a lack of facilities and finances is all based on being able to bring in fans, boosters, and money to develop those facilities that are currently missing. Did, or did not, Sanchez develop the facilities at Bishop Gorman.

Lastly, based on your opinion of everything being handed to Sanchez, you must also thing the coaches at USC, Alabama, Notre Dame, Oregon, etc. all suck since they also had all the facilities handed to them.

You say your tied into a lot of local players, so get over the fact that they routinely had their asses kicked by Bishop Gorman. There are very few teams in the country that would do any better against them, and this appears to be the only reason for your hatred towards Sanchez..

 

[willlevi]

Seriously, you are going to try and compare the record s between the two high school coaches? You are leaving a lot of things out of the equation which include how hard of a schedule they played. Playing a schedule with numerous teams ranked in the top 25 in the nation is a lot harder than playing mostly local team with a couple of mid level out of state teams thrown into the mix. There is a really good reason why the teams under Sanchez were ranked in the top 25 in the nation. Can the same be said about the teams under coach Altshuler?

I also read about how everything was handed to coach Sanchez. Who did the fund raising and construction of the training facilities at Bishop Gorman? Did Altshuler fund raise for the facilities or help get them built? Honest question since the development of a program that has struggled for year due to a lack of facilities and finances is all based on being able to bring in fans, boosters, and money to develop those facilities that are currently missing. Did, or did not, Sanchez develop the facilities at Bishop Gorman.

Lastly, based on your opinion of everything being handed to Sanchez, you must also thing the coaches at USC, Alabama, Notre Dame, Oregon, etc. all suck since they also had all the facilities handed to them.

You say your tied into a lot of local players, so get over the fact that they routinely had their asses kicked by Bishop Gorman. There are very few teams in the country that would do any better against them, and this appears to be the only reason for your hatred towards Sanchez..

I just pointed out their records before Gorman and after they arrived.

Gorman was located at an non-expandable location at 1801 Maryland Parkway. Nearly every influential person and casino owner in the valley sent their kids to Bishop Gorman since 1954.
In 2007 the school opened a new 96 million dollar location. The Fertittas (Station Casino/UFC owner) had kids playing football at the school and are all Gorman graduates, they primarily built the facility that was in the works since the school opened. It is also named after them.
http://www.bggaelsfootball.com/football-gormans-new-facility-trumps-even-universities