MWC & PAC Mediation Discussion for Poaching & Exit Fees

[Bullmastiff 1]

Make a run at them how? We already offered them full membership and to help with their exit fees. What more are we gonna offer? And for what? A program with 0 history... just because the Pac wants them? Why not Tarleton St.

Argument for TX State would be they are already in FBS and investing heavily recently. Big school as well. I think 7th largest in Texas? Have been turning football around.

Tarleton has upside but behind Texas State right now in my opinion.

I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I'd make a substantial wager NDSU is added this year.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I’m good with this too!

MWC doesn't 'have' to add. With NIU for Football we are at 9 so scheduling is a lot easier 5 OOC games would be a pain in the ass. So that's a positive.

Outside of UNLV there really isn't any buzz around what's left.

I think Gloria adds. She's going to be limited, with what she can attract. MWC has money coming since they are withholding the media shares, basketball units and bowl payouts of the exiting members for last season and upcoming season. Not sure what will come out if mediation so don't want to assume a number.

The following are what I think are probably within MWC price range. Who and how many would you add? (A few of these Im not sure even want to move up or not)

NDSU
South Dakota State
Montana
Montana State
Sac State
Tarleton
Sam Houston State
NMSU
Toledo (Football Only)

I think its pretty slim pickings though. Not sure any help a media deal much. Maybe Sac State because of market size. NDSU wouldn't help but probably doesn't hurt it much either.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Argument for TX State would be they are already in FBS and investing heavily recently. Big school as well. I think 7th largest in Texas? Have been turning football around.

Tarleton has upside but behind Texas State right now in my opinion.

I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I'd make a substantial wager NDSU is added this year.

I have no idea why NDSU would want to join the MW. Shit, do they even have to fly to play their current league opponents? FB sells out every game (I presume), they are always in the FCS playoffs, etc. etc. Why in Gawd's name would they go anywhere in any sport?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I have no idea why NDSU would want to join the MW. Shit, do they even have to fly to play their current league opponents? FB sells out every game (I presume), they are always in the FCS playoffs, etc. etc. Why in Gawd's name would they go anywhere in any sport?

Because they've achieved everything possible at the FCS level.

They would double or triple their media money.

Considering the uncertainty with realingment there's a very real possibility that we end up with a definitive 3 tiers of football in the next few years. We kinda have it now P4 G6 FCS bit if a super league is formed those gaps get even wider.

Maybe they're happy staying FCS but their fan base has said a certain amount of apathy has set in. Been there done that.

I really think they join MWC some time this year after mediation is done.

 

[Gator 82]

MWC doesn't 'have' to add. With NIU for Football we are at 9 so scheduling is a lot easier 5 OOC games would be a pain in the ass. So that's a positive.

Outside of UNLV there really isn't any buzz around what's left.

I think Gloria adds. She's going to be limited, with what she can attract. MWC has money coming since they are withholding the media shares, basketball units and bowl payouts of the exiting members for last season and upcoming season. Not sure what will come out if mediation so don't want to assume a number.

The following are what I think are probably within MWC price range. Who and how many would you add? (A few of these Im not sure even want to move up or not)

NDSU
South Dakota State
Montana
Montana State
Sac State
Tarleton
Sam Houston State
NMSU
Toledo (Football Only)

I think its pretty slim pickings though. Not sure any help a media deal much. Maybe Sac State because of market size. NDSU wouldn't help but probably doesn't hurt it much either.

I’ve always liked the Dakota’s and Montana’s

 

[bcvegaspt2]

Toledo would be a good football only add. Brings more of that region and time zone to the conference.

Give me their number and I’ll make the call. I’m tired of all of this uncertainty.

 

[Rebel1986]

Toledo would be a good football only add. Brings more of that region and time zone to the conference.

Give me their number and I’ll make the call. I’m tired of all of this uncertainty.

Toledo would have been a better pick than NIU, but I think Toledo turned down the offer from the MWC.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Toledo would have been a better pick than NIU, but I think Toledo turned down the offer from the MWC.

Initial offer yeah. They could revisit it down the road. See if the move ends up being financially viable for NIU.

 

[Masked_rebel]

We dont need to add anyone... it doesn't matter. It actually would hurt revenue.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

We dont need to add anyone... it doesn't matter. It actually would hurt revenue.

This could be true.

But if you believe UNLV is BIG12 bound then Gloria likely does as well. And if UNLV goes AFA is likely right behind them to the AAC the minute the GOR runs out.

She she may want to be proactive to bolster ranks.

I keep seeing that anybody we add hurts revenue. Im not sure thats 100% true. Total numbers are hard to find out.

But.

NDSU's regular season game vs South Dakota State drew more viewers than the vast majority of games featuring like MWC match ups. It was posted here before. Im not talking about UNM or WYO playing P4 schools where numbers get skewed. But games like Reno vs Wyo or future matchups like Utep vs SJSU.

UNM does horrible numbers unless playing a solid OOC opponent. SJSU TV numbers are awful especially considering market size.

You think NDSU can't draw as many eye balls as either of them?

I get NDSU is a smallish market but you would own that market. Same could be said of the Montana schools.

I have next to no faith in UNM investing in football. Reno is struggling to right the ship. Wyoming is a similiar market to NDSU.

I'll wager you $100 Rebel Net bucks NDSU joins the MWC this year or by this time next year.

 

[Pistol Pete 1]

Rebel net bucks. Are they good everywhere?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Because they've achieved everything possible at the FCS level.

They would double or triple their media money.

Considering the uncertainty with realingment there's a very real possibility that we end up with a definitive 3 tiers of football in the next few years. We kinda have it now P4 G6 FCS bit if a super league is formed those gaps get even wider.

Maybe they're happy staying FCS but their fan base has said a certain amount of apathy has set in. Been there done that.

I really think they join MWC some time this year after mediation is done.

Ok, so going from a powerhouse in FCS to a middle of the road G6 team equates to an upgrade?
And do they need more media money? Or are they doing just fine where they are?
I watched Idaho bolt to D-1, then founder and go back to the Big Sky where they belong. Although the bastards did beat my hapless Cougs in 1999 and 2000. In our stadium, whcich they actually played in for a couple of years because of then-NCAA attendance/capacity rules.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Ok, so going from a powerhouse in FCS to a middle of the road G6 team equates to an upgrade?
And do they need more media money? Or are they doing just fine where they are?
I watched Idaho bolt to D-1, then founder and go back to the Big Sky where they belong. Although the bastards did beat my hapless Cougs in 1999 and 2000. In our stadium, whcich they actually played in for a couple of years because of then-NCAA attendance/capacity rules.

NDSU is better than Idaho was don't you think..? Like miles apart.

Money..MWC media money will be more than NDSU gets now by a significant amount. NDSU has solid booster support. Why did the Idaho coach leave his job for UNM? Why'd your new coach jump up? Could have stayed at the FCS level and competed for titles every year.

By that logic why would anybody leave the MWC for the superior PAC just to get their teeth kicked in? Somebody has to be the bottom feeders right? Who's it going to be? USU?SDSU?

NDSU probably feels like they can compete at the FBS level. And with the added scholarships they feel they would be able to bolster their depth to do that.

NDSU hung with CU at CU. They can hang in the new MWC. You think UNM worries them?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Rebel net bucks. Are they good everywhere?

They aren't even good here...

 

[Rebel1986]

Rebel net bucks. Are they good everywhere?

Rebel net or Nut?

 

[oneepstein]

That's July 1 next year, isnt it? Nothing matters in terms of the Pac 12 member count until July 1, 2026. Thats when their 2 year grace period ends.

More likely than not that the closer to that date it gets, the more expensive it because.

TBH if Texas State is smart, they hold for a full share. If PAC passes on them because they dont want give a full share, its gonna look pretty bad for the PAC when its NMSU. One of the most dysfunctional Departments in D1.

They need one more by July 1, 2026, but the school joining would also have to give notice of at least a year or pay a pretty heavy price Id imagine.

 

[LocoRebel]

They need one more by July 1, 2026, but the school joining would also have to give notice of at least a year or pay a pretty heavy price Id imagine.

Subject to the conference rules and bylaws. I have no idea what NIU is paying to leave the MAC or what UTEP is paying to leave CUSA. I believe that's specifically a MWC regulatory effort after TCU/Utah/BYU left that the "inside one year" cost went up so drastically.

I would agree, most conferences probably have something written to counteract last minute detectors.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

They need one more by July 1, 2026, but the school joining would also have to give notice of at least a year or pay a pretty heavy price Id imagine.

If its Texas State the Sun Belt exiting fees aren't to hefty.

They would go up, but I don't think to a point that it would make Texas State or the PAC flinch to be honest.

 

[SilverSpoon]

Here's exactly how mediation is going...

How does someone claim duress, then put that other party in complete duress and want to pay less than what they agreed to under duress. If this goes to court, the MWC will be asking for damages.

 

[oneepstein]

If its Texas State the Sun Belt exiting fees aren't to hefty.

They would go up, but I don't think to a point that it would make Texas State or the PAC flinch to be honest.

I’m sure they’re not, but I’d imagine there has to be SOME sort of SOMETHING to stop a school from letting the conference know on June 30th that they’re leaving on July 1st.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I’m sure they’re not, but I’d imagine there has to be SOME sort of SOMETHING to stop a school from letting the conference know on June 30th that they’re leaving on July 1st.

You would think. I would think.

We are probably wrong...

 

[rebneck]

I've never gotten the feeling from Montana fans that they want to move. Many like the FCS playoffs, many think that lack of money makes it a non-starter, some think it would be cool, and some have even said the MWC "leftovers" should consider moving down to be more competitive. 🤪 Even less feeling from MSU.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I've never gotten the feeling from Montana fans that they want to move. Many like the FCS playoffs, many think that lack of money makes it a non-starter, some think it would be cool, and some have even said the MWC "leftovers" should consider moving down to be more competitive. 🤪 Even less feeling from MSU.

Heard same thing that money may be the biggest issue. They just don't want to add the costs to move up and add scholarships etc.

NDSU had made a lot of noise about moving up recently. Seriously look what they've done the last decade plus. There's literally nothing left to accomplish at that level.

Will NDSU struggle at FBS level? Sure they aren't going to immediately dominate at this level but they've had more 1st round draft picks than UNLV has had actual draft picks over the last decade.

They've gone 9-5 or 8-5 vs FBS schools over that time period. Almost exclusively on the road. And many if those against P4 schools.

If I'm Gloria I'm 100% making a move to add them. I'm kicking the tires on South Dakota State as well. And I gage interest from Sacramento State. That is a massive TV market to simply ignore..

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Heard same thing that money may be the biggest issue. They just don't want to add the costs to move up and add scholarships etc.

NDSU had made a lot of noise about moving up recently. Seriously look what they've done the last decade plus. There's literally nothing left to accomplish at that level.

Will NDSU struggle at FBS level? Sure they aren't going to immediately dominate at this level but they've had more 1st round draft picks than UNLV has had actual draft picks over the last decade.

They've gone 9-5 or 8-5 vs FBS schools over that time period. Almost exclusively on the road. And many if those against P4 schools.

If I'm Gloria I'm 100% making a move to add them. I'm kicking the tires on South Dakota State as well. And I gage interest from Sacramento State. That is a massive TV market to simply ignore..

Some good thoughts. I think I would prefer a Texas and California addition. Tarleton State has been mentioned and they are right there in the Dallas media market (at least close) and they are part of the Texas A&M system. Sacramento State and also bring in UC Davis football. I have no idea where USD stands in football and moving up but, why not stick our nose into the San Diego market as well. Hell, why not stir the pot up a bit in San Diego. As for the Dakota schools that just doesn't feel like it would do anything for media value.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Some good thoughts. I think I would prefer a Texas and California addition. Tarleton State has been mentioned and they are right there in the Dallas media market (at least close) and they are part of the Texas A&M system. Sacramento State and also bring in UC Davis football. I have no idea where USD stands in football and moving up but, why not stick our nose into the San Diego market as well. Hell, why not stir the pot up a bit in San Diego. As for the Dakota schools that just doesn't feel like it would do anything for media value.

Not saying this to be argumentative.

Take a look at viewership numbers for NDSU and South Dakota State for regular season game last year. It rivaled any like MWC matchup (Things like UNM VS a Reno etc). I don't think they would bring any less value to a deal

I really like Tarleton's trajectory but feels like they are a few years away.

1 addition makes sense to get to 10. It guards against somebody leaving (UNLV or AFA) down the road.

If its NDSU VS SAC State scenario.I might go Sac State for the market VS NDSU who's more ready for prime time.

Adding 2 to get to 11 doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Adding 3 to get to 12 I could see. Sac State huge market. NDS good brand loyal market although small. One of the Montana's .That gives you a block of states/schools from Wyoming through Montana and North Dakota that you would own.

I'm really curious what direction Gloria goes, I don't think she's done.

Definitely don't think you're wrong and get your arguments.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Not saying this to be argumentative.

Take a look at viewership numbers for NDSU and South Dakota State for regular season game last year. It rivaled any like MWC matchup (Things like UNM VS a Reno etc). I don't think they would bring any less value to a deal

I really like Tarleton's trajectory but feels like they are a few years away.

1 addition makes sense to get to 10. It guards against somebody leaving (UNLV or AFA) down the road.

If its NDSU VS SAC State scenario.I might go Sac State for the market VS NDSU who's more ready for prime time.

Adding 2 to get to 11 doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Adding 3 to get to 12 I could see. Sac State huge market. NDS good brand loyal market although small. One of the Montana's .That gives you a block of states/schools from Wyoming through Montana and North Dakota that you would own.

I'm really curious what direction Gloria goes, I don't think she's done.

Definitely don't think you're wrong and get your arguments.

AF has me a tiny bit concerned. Have you read about what their new comandante is doing to the school. He came in and immediately modified their Mission by having the word Education removed. He is a former Special Forces guy who lead a Special Operation Force group and wants the Academy to focus on developing warriors. He has also announced that he plans on removing all civilian instructors from the Academy and wants only current military officers to lead the classrooms. He has the support of our government. What he does about sports is a stay tuned for further developments moment. In the presidents first term they wanted to move the Academy to someplace like Alabama. Don't be surprised "when" this comes up again and don't be surprised if it happens.

Gloria needs to focus away from the Academy for a long term future partner and start looking for a viable replacement.

New Air Force Academy mission statement drops 'educate,' adds a different focus

The Air Force Academy has rolled out a new mission statement that drops the word "educate" and adds in a focus on winning wars. The statement was posted recently on the academy's website without consulting or informing the school's faculty.

gazette.com

Air Force Academy Dean of Faculty retires as controversial civilian faculty cuts loom

Dean of Faculty, Brigadier General Linell A. Letendre's retirement was known before potential civilian cuts were announced, but it comes at a tumultuous time for the Air Force Academy.

www.koaa.com

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

AF has me a tiny bit concerned. Have you read about what their new comandante is doing to the school. He came in and immediately modified their Mission by having the word Education removed. He is a former Special Forces guy who lead a Special Operation Force group and wants the Academy to focus on developing warriors. He has also announced that he plans on removing all civilian instructors from the Academy and wants only current military officers to lead the classrooms. He has the support of our government. What he does about sports is a stay tuned for further developments moment. In the presidents first term they wanted to move the Academy to someplace like Alabama. Don't be surprised "when" this comes up again and don't be surprised if it happens.

Gloria needs to focus away from the Academy for a long term future partner and start looking for a viable replacement.

New Air Force Academy mission statement drops 'educate,' adds a different focus

The Air Force Academy has rolled out a new mission statement that drops the word "educate" and adds in a focus on winning wars. The statement was posted recently on the academy's website without consulting or informing the school's faculty.

gazette.com

Air Force Academy Dean of Faculty retires as controversial civilian faculty cuts loom

Dean of Faculty, Brigadier General Linell A. Letendre's retirement was known before potential civilian cuts were announced, but it comes at a tumultuous time for the Air Force Academy.

www.koaa.com

Interesting. And I think we need to view the 'health' of the MWC through eyes of the commissioner not as UNLV fans.

The stark reality of the MWC is this..

Had UNLV and AFA bolted (UNLV PAC/AFA to AAC) the MWC was done. There was no saving it at that point. Reno, WYO, UNM and company would have been on the phone looking to jump to CUSA.

Would the Dakotas and Montana's negatively impact the current media deal? Yeah probably to some degree. I don't think it would nearly be as drastic as some believe though. Something like 4 mil AAV down to 3.5 AAV.

Sting? Sure but what's your option independent? Nobody can afford that. CUSA? You're looking at like. 750k in media money.

Not saying she absolutely should add, but I think she will, and I understand why.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Interesting. And I think we need to view the 'health' of the MWC through eyes of the commissioner not as UNLV fans.

The stark reality of the MWC is this..

Had UNLV and AFA bolted (UNLV PAC/AFA to AAC) the MWC was done. There was no saving it at that point. Reno, WYO, UNM and company would have been on the phone looking to jump to CUSA.

Would the Dakotas and Montana's negatively impact the current media deal? Yeah probably to some degree. I don't think it would nearly be as drastic as some believe though. Something like 4 mil AAV down to 3.5 AAV.

Sting? Sure but what's your option independent? Nobody can afford that. CUSA? You're looking at like. 750k in media money.

Not saying she absolutely should add, but I think she will, and I understand why.

Meh,
I dont care about the future of the MWC.. I care about the next 5 years of UNLV. When the next round of expansion happens in 2032, were either in Big 12 or P4 conversation, or were joining the Pac 12. This current configuration was simply to give us the most advantages to make our programs look good to Big 12 or other P4 partner. If we dont get invited, then were dumping the MWC anyways for the Pac.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Meh,
I dont care about the future of the MWC.. I care about the next 5 years of UNLV. When the next round of expansion happens in 2032, were either in Big 12 or P4 conversation, or were joining the Pac 12. This current configuration was simply to give us the most advantages to make our programs look good to Big 12 or other P4 partner. If we dont get invited, then were dumping the MWC anyways for the Pac.

I don't either, hence why I said I'm not looking at it from a UNLV fan perspective, but how Gloria may view it.

I don't care if she adds or not in regards to how it impacts UNLV, it really doesn't. We got our bag, and a sweetner every year to absorb any loss in media value.

 

[Rebel1986]

Meh,
I dont care about the future of the MWC.. I care about the next 5 years of UNLV. When the next round of expansion happens in 2032, were either in Big 12 or P4 conversation, or were joining the Pac 12. This current configuration was simply to give us the most advantages to make our programs look good to Big 12 or other P4 partner. If we dont get invited, then were dumping the MWC anyways for the Pac.

In five years what is there that says the Pac12 will even be worth joining from the Pac12? My expectation is that Oregon State and Washington State will keep going down in athletics, and that really only leaves BSU as the leader of that conference. With the new system of NIL, it likely BSU will not be able to stay up towards the top of the conference.

 

[Masked_rebel]

In five years what is there that says the Pac12 will even be worth joining from the Pac12? My expectation is that Oregon State and Washington State will keep going down in athletics, and that really only leaves BSU as the leader of that conference. With the new system of NIL, it likely BSU will not be able to stay up towards the top of the conference.

Because it will end up merging with the programs of any value in 5 years to reinforce its strength as West coast top conference... the only reason the MWC survived was UNLV and AFA sticking around and that only happened because they were stupid in picking 4 and claiming "metrics".. they won't make that mistake again.. they take 3 or 4 MWC teams to have 10-12 football programs and get a better media deal. The rest of MWC programs will merge with CUSA or something... by 2032, one of these 2 conferences won't be around

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Interesting. And I think we need to view the 'health' of the MWC through eyes of the commissioner not as UNLV fans.

The stark reality of the MWC is this..

Had UNLV and AFA bolted (UNLV PAC/AFA to AAC) the MWC was done. There was no saving it at that point. Reno, WYO, UNM and company would have been on the phone looking to jump to CUSA.

Would the Dakotas and Montana's negatively impact the current media deal? Yeah probably to some degree. I don't think it would nearly be as drastic as some believe though. Something like 4 mil AAV down to 3.5 AAV.

Sting? Sure but what's your option independent? Nobody can afford that. CUSA? You're looking at like. 750k in media money.

Not saying she absolutely should add, but I think she will, and I understand why.

True. It's why I said Gloria needs to look at this. Better her than me.

The Pac really ****ed up by not taking one or two more MWC schools in the initial announcement. They could have ended the MWC then and there. They are the dumbest people to be running a conference.

The MWC will add in the next few years I predict. I don't think it will be immediate and how many it will add will be all based on the amount of money we get from mediation. It will be an interesting ride until we get to the B12.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

True. It's why I said Gloria needs to look at this. Better her than me.

The Pac really ****ed up by not taking one or two more MWC schools in the initial announcement. They could have ended the MWC then and there. They are the dumbest people to be running a conference.

The MWC will add in the next few years I predict. I don't think it will be immediate and how many it will add will be all based on the amount of money we get from mediation. It will be an interesting ride until we get to the B12.

They didn't cut the head off the snake when they had the chance.

And they should have.

I can't see a scenario where Gloria could entice anybody outside of FCS schools to join a MWC that consisted of UNM, Wyo, Reno, SJSU. At that point Im not sure Hawaii even considers full membership. They probably pitch themselves to the PAC as football only.

I think the MWC dissolves at that point since the value of the conference would be about CUSA. And the remaining schools join CUSA.

Maybe a merger in that scenario, but I doubt it.

 

[RebelScrub]

Here’s who you add..


Sa State, Grand Canyon State, north Dakota, Texas state


Unlv,Reno, sjsu, sac state, afa,unm, Wyoming, ndsu,Utep,Texas state, Hawaii,….



That’s a decent conference. Travel is a nightmare.

 

[WYNN or Dye]

Here’s who you add..


Sa State, Grand Canyon State, north Dakota, Texas state


Unlv,Reno, sjsu, sac state, afa,unm, Wyoming, ndsu,Utep,Texas state, Hawaii,….



That’s a decent conference. Travel is a nightmare.

Grand Canyon, is already invited and in.
As, a matter of fact. They, might even play the 2025/26 season.

 

[Rebel1986]

Grand Canyon, is already invited and in.
As, a matter of fact. They, might even play the 2025/26 season.

I love how those teams going to the PAC are trying to stop Grand Canyon from joining early. SDSU doesn't want to play GC!

 

[Masked_rebel]

I love how those teams going to the PAC are trying to stop Grand Canyon from joining early. SDSU doesn't want to play GC!

They no longer have a vote so it doesn't matter