If we got a splash hire. I think NIL money goes up considerably 4 UNLV standards, attendance goes way up ( more revenue) then recruiting the better players becomes easier.
Joshua Jefferson
- Thread starter Rebelious1
- Start date
It’s hard not to be effective a foot from the hoop… he has no shot type or selection other than the layup drill.. where’s the jump hook or the face jump shot from 5-10 feet? I don’t want him gone, he needs to get better on the offensive end and grab more rebounds on the defensive end.
He should strive to be more like Osobor with a vertical, now that’s a starter skill set I can get behind!
Here’s my take on Whaley. He’s an enigma for me. He is undersized at the 4 and actually around 6’5”. But he has good length with a 6’11” wingspan and is an excellent run and jump athlete. Also, I like his toughness. But I question his motor because with his strength, athleticism and quickness he should be a plus rebounder and he isn’t. Just my opinion.
I expect that he'll have a nice jump in production from this year to next. I hope it's at UNLV.
Good take!
Not to mention with all the raw skill and athleticism his offense is so limited.
He needs to get old film and just do what Warren Rosegreen did. Averaged 12 Rebounds per 40 min.
Funny you mentioned Warren Rosegreen. Warren and Shakur Juiston are two slightly under sized 4’s and juco transfers who were monsters on the boards immediately after transferring in from juco. Let’s look at their junior year rebounding stats at UNLV:
Warren Rosegreen 9.5 rpg.
Shakur Juiston 10.00 rpg.
Robert Whaley 3.6 rpg.
Now to be fair to Whaley the stats extrapolated over 40 minutes are even more telling. For example with Juiston his stats jumped to 17.8 rpg. Whaley’s increase to only 7.1 rpg. Huge difference and that’s my point. Also, rebounding is one of the skill sets that typically follow the player when they move up from juco like it did for both Rosegreen and Juiston.
Lack of rebounding is my major concern with Whaley. Especially when UNLV loses to the Aztecs by only 3, but are out rebounded by 19, 50-31.
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Funny how you forget players roles because WW only started 3 games as a junior. However he managed to board at 5.3 rpg. Over 40 minutes his total rises to 11.2 rpg.
A stretch 4 who can actually board is the best of all worlds. But they are rare. To compete UNLV needs to improve the rebounding from the 4.
I wonder if Pape and Cherry as the starting 4 and 5 is the plan? If Pape can rebound and block shots that is good enough and those are two things freshman don’t struggle with as much.
Let's be realistic... the top talents that were drooling over are going to big name P4 schools... so @lobbybuu or someone else, whose the low mid-major diamond that we really want and can come to UNLV, shoot 40% from 3 or rebound like 15 a game? There's got to be a few like that that we can get in early before they become known quantities? Maybe build a team that just competes vs guys who had a bunch of stars next to their name?
DJ may be the biggest asset UNLV has to save this program and make UNLV relevant again!
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I am as guilty as f*ck more so than most of everyone here. My guilt have always been my desire to chase Tark's greatness. Now I realise that goal is very difficult to achieve. It doesn't seems like anyone at UNLV have been trying to chase that greatness. A new bar is Lon Kruger's tenure. LK tenure as coach across the country is legendary and deservedly be in the NCAA HOF because he took 5 different schools into the NCAA Tournament. And he is above 500 in winning percentage. Not exactly Tark like but much better than any one since Tark. Just not at UNLV. In the community, it is better to have the Krugers around than not. These thrashings by the like of Southern, AFA and such need to end. It is just not normal.
LJ was undersized too. Could you imagine if LJ had to be the biggest guy on the court ? He wouldn't have done so well. If he didn't have Butler, Ackles, and Elmore Spencer he would've had a hard time. We need someone besides a lackadaisical selfish skinny stretch 4 playing center ( Ka Boone) - find someone like Joel Anthony to run with Rob and we will go to the sweet 16 next year
I think Pape would play the 5 in this scenario so I think Whaley would compete more with Cherry but now that we have Jefferson that might end my twin towers theory and would guess he and Cherry start the 4/5.
Hicks, JJJ, Nowell, and Cotrell just need to get more playing time so that they develop into All-Americans!
Especially JJJ at the point even though he wasn’t even third string PG behind Webster and Hicks!
Especially JJJ at the point even though he wasn’t even third string PG behind Webster and Hicks!
Going with the one more year approach...
They're just like Brisket... slow and steady but eventually it'll be ready, you just can't rush it... and if you pull it too early you'll just ruin it
KK has already shown he is only playing 7-8 players so UNLV will have 5-6 players who will only get garbage minuted. Problem is Kevin doesn't have 7-8 players that are good enough to get them to the NCAAT.
If KK thinks he can ride with what he currently has and who has already committed then we will be having the same type of conversation next year after another post season in the nit or no post season at all.
If KK thinks he can ride with what he currently has and who has already committed then we will be having the same type of conversation next year after another post season in the nit or no post season at all.
I don’t see that as a plausible scenario. They both play the 5.
How does he get so close to the hoop? Do defenders think it is a good idea to allow him so close to the basket?
He creates looks close to the hoop with * brace yourself* a variety of moves that use his lower body strength and weight. And then he does well at finishing through contact.
Its not quite the same as going through a lay up line in warm ups. Your not giving him enough credit for the things he does well.
He isn't a perfect player, big surprise. He could add a little more to his offensive game. He is built a bi different. Getting a sky hook like Kalib my not be as effective because he doesn't have the the length.
It really looked like him and Keylan didn't have a lot of love for each other--there was always a lot of not-exactly friendly jawing after a foul between them.
If Whaley is unhappy and is planning on testing the waters or if Jalen Hill's prognosis isn't great for the start of the season, then Jefferson is a no-brainer.
If you're saying I could only have one of those guys, I think I'd lean towards Jefferson. He's a better rebounder, better passer, has better handles and is a better on-ball defender. Whaley has a couple of nice post move packages, is savvy offensively around the bucket and is a better post defender and shot blocker, and I think he creates more of a match-up problem than Jefferson. I also think I'll take two years over one for program stability (as if there's really such a thing anymore). Realistically, I'd probably take a healthy Jalen Hill over Whaley as well given his body of work. I think we really need our 4 in this offense to be able to score off of cuts and the dribble, and I don't think Whaley has that in his repertoire yet.
Looking at the time a player may or may not be with the team is pointless.. Kruger is basically on a 1 year contract and so is every player that is going to be on the team next year. While Jefferson has more collegiate years available, unless we make the NCAA tournament next year, that doesnt matter. Id rather have all 3 and let them fight for playing time. We will need guys to come off the bench and Id rather have hungry bench players who come in for 10-12 minutes a game and inject 8-10 points or get hot and go for more than ones who are useless offensively and dont contribute but just fill minutes. If someone is unhappy, let them go elsewhere. We need guys that want to be at UNLV and play hard, not guys that expect to get PT and get angry or whiny when they dont earn it. Good teams have guys that can rotate in off the bench.
i take Jefferson, i like Whaley, dont love him, he's horrible against double team, i hate he holds the ball then backs guys down, not much of a rebounder either, i like him to stay, no reason in MWC him and Jefferson cant play together, alot of unknowns, they need 3 impact guys at SG/SF positions and good backup PG
I have read a bunch of comments that Kruger only plays 7-8 players, but I think that is more out of necessity since he really only has about 5-6 decent to good players, and a bunch of bench riders who will never be at the level needed for the NCAA tournament. I agree that Kruger is without question on a one year contract next year, and must get to the NCAA tournament or he will be gone. The only change to this plan will be if the AD finds he can make a homerun hire this year, and doesn't wait until next year to replace Kruger.
Since Kruger must know his situation for next year, he should be desperate to find the scorers and a big guy to upgrade the team, if he doesn't know he is on a thin rope with a hot seat, then he will surely be gone!
Thats KK fault, his roster construction stinks, too many one dimensional guys who arent good at that. Webster was biggest disappointment to me, Nowell got hurt and really hurt him, JJ too small, he needs to be on Runnin Rebs instead of the walking Rebs. Watching UCONN, guards rebound, move without the ball can pass and shoot, thats what UNLV and KK needs...........
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but don't necessarily agree about the "never be at the level needed for the NCAA tournament" part. Not because I think the bench players are amazing, but more just in the sense that players develop over the course of 4-6 years. Take Bannarbie and Hicks this year. Bannarbie didn't play at all, and Hicks only averaged around 10 minutes/game. Neither one of those guys was a major contributer this year, but in 2-3 years, they definitely both 'could' be. I'm not saying they will be, but it's hard to know how guys will grow.
A good example would be LeDee from SDSU. This is his 5th year. Here's his stats below:
| GP | GS | MIN | FG | FG% | 3PT | 3P% | FT | FT% | OR | DR | REB | AST | BLK | STL | PF | TO | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 26 | 2 | 6.6 | 0.7-1.8 | 38.3 | 0.0-0.1 | 0.0 | 1.6-2.1 | 74.5 | 0.7 | 1.0 | 1.7 | 0.2 | 0.2 | 0.1 | 1.0 | 0.5 | 3.0 |
| 30 | 0 | 11.7 | 0.8-1.5 | 52.3 | 0.0-0.0 | 0.0 | 1.2-1.7 | 70.6 | 1.5 | 1.4 | 2.9 | 0.1 | 0.4 | 0.4 | 2.5 | 0.5 | 2.7 |
| 23 | 1 | 15.2 | 2.1-4.0 | 53.8 | 0.0-0.2 | 0.0 | 1.5-2.2 | 70.0 | 1.7 | 2.2 | 3.9 | 0.3 | 0.1 | 0.3 | 2.1 | 0.5 | 5.8 |
| 39 | 1 | 18.1 | 2.8-5.7 | 48.9 | 0.0-0.2 | 0.0 | 2.3-3.2 | 72.8 | 2.1 | 3.2 | 5.3 | 0.9 | 0.4 | 0.5 | 1.9 | 1.0 | 7.9 |
| 36 | 36 | 32.6 | 7.3-13.1 | 56.0 | 0.6-1.3 | 44.4 | 6.3-8.6 | 73.4 | 3.4 | 5.0 | 8.4 | 1.3 | 0.5 | 1.2 | 2.4 | 2.4 | 21.4 |
He didn't do too much at all in his first 4 years, but in his 5th year, he carried SDSU all season and was quite dominant. You never know how some of these guys will pan out.
Know doubt! He has a poor bench because he recruited a poor bench!
Yeah, I mean who were you going to readily bring off the bench? Most team tend to go to 8 guy rotations by mid year and during conference play. Our bench was futile until the last 3 or 4 games where Webster finally regained his shot. They scored like 30 points all conference season combined till the SDSU game. So yeah, he brought them in as only a necessity and had to play the starters a majority of the season. DTJ wasnt supposed to average 35 minutes a game...
Roster construction under Kruger has been a challenge. We went guard heavy for the first 2 years, then he realized we were too short and went out and got some bigger guys- Hiil and the Boones and a project kid that wasnt eligible...
LeDee is a good example of a guy that makes a big jump, but part of that was he became a one trick pony for that team and they fell apart any time he didnt get going or to the foul line. They fed him because everyone around him was terrible. It'll be interesting to see if SDSU can bring in a scorer, because their returning roster is offensively lacking and I for one hope they dont.
Roster construction under Kruger has been a challenge. We went guard heavy for the first 2 years, then he realized we were too short and went out and got some bigger guys- Hiil and the Boones and a project kid that wasnt eligible...
LeDee is a good example of a guy that makes a big jump, but part of that was he became a one trick pony for that team and they fell apart any time he didnt get going or to the foul line. They fed him because everyone around him was terrible. It'll be interesting to see if SDSU can bring in a scorer, because their returning roster is offensively lacking and I for one hope they dont.
We don’t beat SDSU without Whaley. He kept Ledee at bay. For me personally, DJ aside, Whaley is the one I want to keep most. It comes down to a roster construction issue. You have legit centers on the team? Whaley gets to go to work. No centers? We see Whaley being used out of position. He’s not big enough to defend the best post player while simultaneously grabbing every board and scoring like he’s 5 inches taller. Build the team right and he becomes the type of player every team needs. Anyone who wants Whaley gone will see him go to a solid tournament team and he will be another lost player on a long list of guys who made their way successfully somewhere else.
There was also the fact that we had 13 minutes this year with every player available to play, I wouldn't necessarily call them "healthy" either. We had a limited bench this year for a variety of reasons.
To say that UNLV has been poor in recruiting is also a bit much. They had a top 30 transfer class last season, best in conference. Again I think it is fair to compare to the rest of this conference since, you know, that's where we are. And we haven't quite dominated it yet. The idea that the players aren't good enough when they are rated near the top of the conference is reaching. I'm sure the rest of the conference would laugh at that idea.
It is tough to get a bunch of pieces to fit together when you are nearly building from scratch every year. It took until conference season to find a way that was more or less consistently effective.
For sure there will be new pieces next season, so the refresh will begin. But at least it seems like we will have more carryover from this season, more than Kevin has had so far. WIth DJ being the most important piece if that should help quite a bit.
I think pace will pick up some next year. I really do think Kalib more than anyone else slowed it down. Pape for sure can run the floor better, and perhaps Cherry ( TBD). It could look more like the Princeton game.
To say that UNLV has been poor in recruiting is also a bit much. They had a top 30 transfer class last season, best in conference. Again I think it is fair to compare to the rest of this conference since, you know, that's where we are. And we haven't quite dominated it yet. The idea that the players aren't good enough when they are rated near the top of the conference is reaching. I'm sure the rest of the conference would laugh at that idea.
It is tough to get a bunch of pieces to fit together when you are nearly building from scratch every year. It took until conference season to find a way that was more or less consistently effective.
For sure there will be new pieces next season, so the refresh will begin. But at least it seems like we will have more carryover from this season, more than Kevin has had so far. WIth DJ being the most important piece if that should help quite a bit.
I think pace will pick up some next year. I really do think Kalib more than anyone else slowed it down. Pape for sure can run the floor better, and perhaps Cherry ( TBD). It could look more like the Princeton game.
USU, Musselman and others seem to build from scratch every year. That is up to KK to get that to happen. I do think having DJ, Whaley and others will make it easier for him.
Hill could be the reason Whaley would consider transferring. Unless Hill plays the 3 (doubtful) Whaley could be the odd man out and be the 6th man off the bench. He would be fantastic in that role and cause major problems for the opponents bench but I’d be surprised a bench role, even a high minutes 6th man, is what he wants.
DTJ is the key. Not a hot take of course but a skilled point guard can help make up for roster turnover year over year. Best thing that can happen to the program (short of buying a top name coach) is for DTJ to stay at UNLV his entire college career (however long that may be) and for CKK to turn the corner next year in his coaching and roster construction and make the Dance. If DTJ stays a third or fourth year the program will be in a very good place. If CKK can’t turn it around next year, total reset and hopefully Harp will already have a quality successor lined up.
I like the point you make about others building from scratch every year. Thats the norm now and if CKK or any coach cant do that, then maybe they arent a good coach and not fit to coach in today's landscape. And if a coach brings in a good transfer and recruiting class and they dont gel, then maybe the assessment and judgment of players is wrong too. Not only do coaches need to recruit good players, but they need to recruit good pieces that get along.
Rob and Keylan definitely did not get along. Im not sure if youre referring to a specific instance but there was one not too long ago, I cant remember the game, but they definitely had jawed extensively after a timeout. Rob and Kalib dont get along either, multiple times during the season they have waved each other off after the other didnt help them or left them hanging without a handshake.
Whaley is a proven commodity and had some great moments with us. Kicking that out to accommodate another player from another program just seems like poor planning to me.
recruiting a bench is no longer a thing. players on a bench will always have a promise of starting somewhere else.
there’s mention of Brooklyn Hicks and Berrnannianieisnee (sp?) above but i don’t they’ll be here next year. at least, i expect they won’t be.
