It's all G5....

[TimothyC3]

Out of curiosity I looked at Boise State and their combined record in the WAC and later in the MWC over the last 24 years to see if there was an advantage in their national rankings by supposedly moving up from one lower level G5 conference in the WAC to what some might consider a higher level G5 conference in the MWC. For the 10 years Boise was a member of the WAC the conference was made up of Nevada, Hawaii, Fresno, Louisiana Tech, Idaho, New Mexico State, San Jose State and Utah State. Did the move to the MWC improve Boise State's national stature and perception? The simple answer based upon National AP rankings is NO! For the 10 years Boise State was in the WAC they were nationally ranked in the AP poll 9 times or 90% of the years. Boise was also ranked at some point as a WAC member in the AP top 10 in 4 different years. In contrast, as a member of the MWC Boise was ranked 11 times over 14 years or 78% with only 2 years with a top 10 AP ranking. Essentially, not much of a difference and that has been my point. It's all G5 and UNLV would have foolish to pay the MWC the $$$$ exit fee to join another G5 conference in the G5 PAC-2.

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[oneepstein]

I did the same exercise a week or so ago. Boise has absolutely been good for a long time now, but they’ve also benefited by how they’re viewed in the court of public opinion.

If UNLV is bringing in talent, has a great coach, and wins games the perception will be there for them too.

 

[InZoneU]

Out of curiosity I looked at Boise State and their combined record in the WAC and later in the MWC over the last 24 years to see if there was an advantage in their national rankings by supposedly moving up from one lower level G5 conference in the WAC to what some might consider a higher level G5 conference in the MWC. For the 10 years Boise was a member of the WAC the conference was made up of Nevada, Hawaii, Fresno, Louisiana Tech, Idaho, New Mexico State, San Jose State and Utah State. Did the move to the MWC improve Boise State's national stature and perception? The simple answer based upon National AP rankings is NO! For the 10 years Boise State was in the WAC they were nationally ranked in the AP poll 9 times or 90% of the years. Boise was also ranked at some point as a WAC member in the AP top 10 in 4 different years. In contrast, as a member of the MWC Boise was ranked 11 times over 14 years or 78% with only 2 years with a top 10 AP ranking. Essentially, not much of a difference and that has been my point. It's all G5 and UNLV would have foolish to pay the MWC the $$$$ exit fee to join another G5 conference in the G5 PAC-2.

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You get it. Arguing over who has the better G conference right now is pointless. We all compete for the same playoff spot(s).

 

[dcut03]

Times have changed quite a bit over the past few years, especially with the invention of the playoff. G5 football is much, different animal.

This year we actually saw the benefit of being in the top G5 conference. We suffered 2 losses and still had a shot at the playoff. The AAC which is a conference that is much better than the new MW, did not have that luxury.

It is all G5, but just like the P4 there are the haves and have nots. The new PAC has the potential to be the SEC of the G5, with AAC the B1G. the new MW is the B12.

There will be a lower degree of error.

Now we will need to try to be the new Boise regardless of conference. Momentum is huge in college football. Initial rankings play a huge role in perception and strength of a program. If we can stay floating around the top 25, and continue to win, even against weaker schedules, it will help keep us in the conversation.

 

[rebswin2]

Out of curiosity I looked at Boise State and their combined record in the WAC and later in the MWC over the last 24 years to see if there was an advantage in their national rankings by supposedly moving up from one lower level G5 conference in the WAC to what some might consider a higher level G5 conference in the MWC. For the 10 years Boise was a member of the WAC the conference was made up of Nevada, Hawaii, Fresno, Louisiana Tech, Idaho, New Mexico State, San Jose State and Utah State. Did the move to the MWC improve Boise State's national stature and perception? The simple answer based upon National AP rankings is NO! For the 10 years Boise State was in the WAC they were nationally ranked in the AP poll 9 times or 90% of the years. Boise was also ranked at some point as a WAC member in the AP top 10 in 4 different years. In contrast, as a member of the MWC Boise was ranked 11 times over 14 years or 78% with only 2 years with a top 10 AP ranking. Essentially, not much of a difference and that has been my point. It's all G5 and UNLV would have foolish to pay the MWC the $$$$ exit fee to join another G5 conference in the G5 PAC-2.

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This is just what I remember so I absolutely could be wrong, but I feel like BSU was winning bigger OOC and bowl games back then which contributed to their higher rankings. They also had Dan Hawkins and Chris Peterson as their coach during their time in the WAC.

 

[dcut03]

Out of curiosity I looked at Boise State and their combined record in the WAC and later in the MWC over the last 24 years to see if there was an advantage in their national rankings by supposedly moving up from one lower level G5 conference in the WAC to what some might consider a higher level G5 conference in the MWC. For the 10 years Boise was a member of the WAC the conference was made up of Nevada, Hawaii, Fresno, Louisiana Tech, Idaho, New Mexico State, San Jose State and Utah State. Did the move to the MWC improve Boise State's national stature and perception? The simple answer based upon National AP rankings is NO! For the 10 years Boise State was in the WAC they were nationally ranked in the AP poll 9 times or 90% of the years. Boise was also ranked at some point as a WAC member in the AP top 10 in 4 different years. In contrast, as a member of the MWC Boise was ranked 11 times over 14 years or 78% with only 2 years with a top 10 AP ranking. Essentially, not much of a difference and that has been my point. It's all G5 and UNLV would have foolish to pay the MWC the $$$$ exit fee to join another G5 conference in the G5 PAC-2.

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Just curious, knowing what we know now. Do you think that Boise should have stayed in the WAC?

They were able to get a nice bump in media contract with their move, even got a sweetheart deal to get more than the rest of the MW.

Do you think they should have not taken the extra money and stayed in the weaker conference?

 

[UNLVINMD]

WAC was dread, moving to MWC has helped them get into the PAC, they need to upgrade the total amount of sports they have to think about moving to B12, to me B12 is UNLV end game or dead game. unless UNLV can play 4 top non-conference games to offset the stench of the new MWC. If they can get 50k against UCLA next year, it's all about winning and drawing that fans will show up.

 

[TimothyC3]

WAC was dread, moving to MWC has helped them get into the PAC, they need to upgrade the total amount of sports they have to think about moving to B12, to me B12 is UNLV end game or dead game. unless UNLV can play 4 top non-conference games to offset the stench of the new MWC. If they can get 50k against UCLA next year, it's all about winning and drawing that fans will show up.

The PAC is nothing but another G5 conference. Wait....I forgot they aren't considered a conference until they obtain another football member. Where's SAC St when you need them! Also, where's the superior TV-Media deal? At best, moving to the PAC is a lateral move and I find it meaningful that belonging to the MWC did not prevent Boise from obtaining a bye in the football playoffs.

 

[dcut03]

The PAC is nothing but another G5 conference. Wait....I forgot they aren't considered a conference until they obtain another football member. Where's SAC St when you need them! Also, where's the superior TV-Media deal? At best, moving to the PAC is a lateral move and I find it meaningful that belonging to the MWC did not prevent Boise from obtaining a bye in the football playoffs.

So should have Boise joined the MW or not? You bring up a good point us joining the PAC has some similarities to Boise joining the MW back in the day, if they were better off in the smaller conference?

End of the day the PAC will make more money per year baseline, they will make much more money in NCAA credits. conference SOS in football and basketball will be better easily.

These things can be overcome, but it does handicap the MW schools. IF there is a 1 loss or undefeated team in each conference, the PAC will get the nod in football. Easy. Unless the MW team has multiple upsets in the P4 that year.

 

[Rebel1986]

The PAC is nothing but another G5 conference. Wait....I forgot they aren't considered a conference until they obtain another football member. Where's SAC St when you need them! Also, where's the superior TV-Media deal? At best, moving to the PAC is a lateral move and I find it meaningful that belonging to the MWC did not prevent Boise from obtaining a bye in the football playoffs.

The PAC is the top of the Mountain for Boise State, Oregon State, Washington State, Fresno, etc... Unless Boise State wins the college football playoffs, they have already been turned down by the Big12 playing year after year as a mostly top 25 program. On the other side, UNLV has moved up drastically, already draws almost as much interest as BSU on a national level, and will most likely pass BSU up in attendance this next year. UNLV is being put in a prime position to be an attractive addition to the Big12, and you never know how far UNLV can improve to the point of being an attractive addition to another power 4 conference?

 

[TimothyC3]

So should have Boise joined the MW or not? You bring up a good point us joining the PAC has some similarities to Boise joining the MW back in the day, if they were better off in the smaller conference?

End of the day the PAC will make more money per year baseline, they will make much more money in NCAA credits. conference SOS in football and basketball will be better easily.

These things can be overcome, but it does handicap the MW schools. IF there is a 1 loss or undefeated team in each conference, the PAC will get the nod in football. Easy. Unless the MW team has multiple upsets in the P4 that year.

I disagree. All the G5-PAC2 has is Boise. Nothing more. No one else has a national reputation or appeal. They are all G5. If that wasn't the case why haven't the TV networks jumped and offered? Why are they struggling to find the 8th football member?

Here's why the PAC leadership doesn't have a clue. This year the current MWC has two teams ranked in the top 25 for most of the year. With the merger and 14 members there could be years where the MWC had 3 ranked teams. Now we are talking and competing with the B12 by having a similar number of teams with top 25 rankings and when the playoffs expand to 16 teams the merged PAC-MWC could make a strong argument that they deserve a auto bid. Not now!

 

[Rebel1986]

I disagree. All the G5-PAC2 has is Boise. Nothing more. No one else has a national reputation or appeal. They are all G5. If that wasn't the case why haven't the TV networks jumped and offered? Why are they struggling to find the 8th football member?

Here's why the PAC leadership doesn't have a clue. This year the current MWC has two teams ranked in the top 25 for most of the year. With the merger and 14 members there could be years where the MWC had 3 ranked teams. Now we are talking and competing with the B12 by having a similar number of teams with top 25 rankings and when the playoffs expand to 16 teams the merged PAC-MWC could make a strong argument that they deserve a auto bid. Not now!

The longer the Pac waits for a TV contract, the more Oregon State and Washington State value will drop off. It is obvious based on recruiting and loss of staff and players that Oregon State and Washington State are sinking ships. The only program they have of value is BSU, and my belief is that UNLV and the Las Vegas market have far more value than BSU and the Boise market.

 

[SilverSpoon]

The PAC is throwing Hail Mary after Hail Mary right now. In order to become a conference, their only choice is going to be a crap FBS school in a crap FBS conference. AAC is out. MWC is out. CFS is out of the question because of timing. Their next invite KILLS the P4+ facade, which kills everything they were after. Including their fantastic delusional idea they were any better than a MWC bottom dweller, who they would gladly take in a heartbeat right now. Any one of them. The only thing that was attractive about OSO and WSU was the PAC12 branding. PAC12 is now a synonym known as the socks you found in your son's room after moving out. You know the socks I'm talkimg about. The one's stuck to the wall.

 

[RebelinWA]

The longer the Pac waits for a TV contract, the more Oregon State and Washington State value will drop off. It is obvious based on recruiting and loss of staff and players that Oregon State and Washington State are sinking ships. The only program they have of value is BSU, and my belief is that UNLV and the Las Vegas market have far more value than BSU and the Boise market.

Its like they didn’t learn the last time when they waited too long for a tv contract AND burned the media partner. Though in this case, they are waiting too long, AND they burned potential members like us early.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

The PAC is nothing but another G5 conference. Wait....I forgot they aren't considered a conference until they obtain another football member. Where's SAC St when you need them! Also, where's the superior TV-Media deal? At best, moving to the PAC is a lateral move and I find it meaningful that belonging to the MWC did not prevent Boise from obtaining a bye in the football playoffs.

I don't disagree with the crux of the point your making.

And in the long term this probably doesn't matter.

But with the current CFP structure SOS scheduled matters.

Army had one loss (before Navy) and beat a highly regarded Tulane team in their conference Championship.
Their OOC was weak but so was there conference.

UNLV lost twice. But remained ahead of Army because both OOC and conference schedule were significantly better.

In this new iteration of the MWC UNLV is almost forced to go undefeated in OOC or lose to a top tier P4 in a close game (Like Boise State vs Oregon). Then be forced to run the table in MWC. There won't be any quality wins within the new MWC. I get SDSU and Fresno were both down this year. But beating UNM or Reno or UTEP aren't helping SOS at all.


Longterm with conference realingment and possible Super Conference/League it likely doesn't matter. But short term with this CFP set up I think it does.

If PAC somehow pulls off Memphis or Tulane or both the gap between conference is massive. A 2 loss PAC team likely gets in over a 1 loss AAC/Sun Belt/CUSA/MAC or MWC team.

 

[unlv7163]

Don’t think it ultimately matters which conference we’re in. Most important thing is to try and play P4 teams in the non conference slate and Win those games like we did this year. Boise State’s reputation is la

I don't disagree with the crux of the point your making.

And in the long term this probably doesn't matter.

But with the current CFP structure SOS scheduled matters.

Army had one loss (before Navy) and beat a highly regarded Tulane team in their conference Championship.
Their OOC was weak but so was there conference.

UNLV lost twice. But remained ahead of Army because both OOC and conference schedule were significantly better.

In this new iteration of the MWC UNLV is almost forced to go undefeated in OOC or lose to a top tier P4 in a close game (Like Boise State vs Oregon). Then be forced to run the table in MWC. There won't be any quality wins within the new MWC. I get SDSU and Fresno were both down this year. But beating UNM or Reno or UTEP aren't helping SOS at all.


Longterm with conference realingment and possible Super Conference/League it likely doesn't matter. But short term with this CFP set up I think it does.

If PAC somehow pulls off Memphis or Tulane or both the gap between conference is massive. A 2 loss PAC team likely gets in over a 1 loss AAC/Sun Belt/CUSA/MAC or MWC team.

To me it depends on the teams in question. A 2 loss Boise St definitely gets in over a say a 1 loss Wyoming. If you have enough prestige, I don’t think that’s the case. For example, 10-12 years ago, I don’t think a 2 loss Fresno St would have gotten in over a 1 loss Boise St. I truly believe the key will the non conference slate when it comes to the playoffs. TV deal would be better for the PAC, but don’t think playoff standing improves a ton.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Don’t think it ultimately matters which conference we’re in. Most important thing is to try and play P4 teams in the non conference slate and Win those games like we did this year. Boise State’s reputation is la

To me it depends on the teams in question. A 2 loss Boise St definitely gets in over a say a 1 loss Wyoming. If you have enough prestige, I don’t think that’s the case. For example, 10-12 years ago, I don’t think a 2 loss Fresno St would have gotten in over a 1 loss Boise St. I truly believe the key will the non conference slate when it comes to the playoffs. TV deal would be better for the PAC, but don’t think playoff standing improves a ton.

I totally get what you're saying. And pretty much agree.

'Prestige' is part of the problem though.

PAC has some schools with it..

SDSU is down but is only a few years removed from being a top 25 program. Fresno makes bowl games pretty consistently. Boise State is the premier G5 program. USU was down this year but was on a very good run prior.

New MWC premier teams are UNLV and probably San Jose State? I would say AFA but the academies are really hard to project/predict year to year because they don't recruit at a particularly high level and they can't utilize the portal.

We'll see. My hope is UNLV isn't long for the MWC. I don't think long term working at a disadvantage vs PAC schools in media rights revenue is sustainable.

 

[InZoneU]

If a G program goes 10-2 or 11-1 or 12-0, they will be in the mix for the playoff spot regardless of conference. The conference schedule won't matter. The OOC schedule is what will determine things.

 

[Mojo702]

Are you guys sure about sos meaning that much? The last few years (not this year), Liberty played and beat NO ONE of significance yet were highly ranked and would have made the 12-team playoffs. I don't think SOS plays as big a part as some might think. I don't recall if it was here at Rebel net or elsewhere, but someone put up a spreadsheet of the rankings and it's various criteria, and they appeared a lot more biased toward SOR (strength of record) and showed that SOS had little influence in those rankings.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

Are you guys sure about sos meaning that much? The last few years (not this year), Liberty played and beat NO ONE of significance yet were highly ranked and would have made the 12-team playoffs. I don't think SOS plays as big a part as some might think. I don't recall if it was here at Rebel net or elsewhere, but someone put up a spreadsheet of the rankings and it's various criteria, and they appeared a lot more biased toward SOR (strength of record) and showed that SOS had little influence in those rankings.

I agree it doesn't now though I think change is coming with that after this season. All it takes is Alabama to miss the CFP over SMU who played no one and change will come in like the wind.

 

[unlove]

Schedule up every year. UNLV is quickly becoming a national brand in CFB and will be attractive to package for tv in noncon games. Mullen will also add to the appeal. Play a tough but winnable schedule and dominate the MWC. That’s a formula for CFP contention every year depending upon our noncon performance. I agree MWC should be temporary for UNLV. Shoot for Big12 and style for PAC if we don’t get an invite. PAC will take UNLV so long as we stay competitive.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

Schedule up every year. UNLV is quickly becoming a national brand in CFB and will be attractive to package for tv in noncon games. Mullen will also add to the appeal. Play a tough but winnable schedule and dominate the MWC. That’s a formula for CFP contention every year depending upon our noncon performance. I agree MWC should be temporary for UNLV. Shoot for Big12 and style for PAC if we don’t get an invite. PAC will take UNLV so long as we stay competitive.

I agree as others have said be Gonzaga of football. Sometimes easier said than done because you don't get the top top teams to play now that we are better. Michigan doesn't have a lot to gain by beating us but a lot to lose by losing to us. We aren't that guaranteed W any more. You can probably get the ASU, ISU and Vandy's of the world but not OSU, Michigan, Georgia etc.

 

[oneepstein]

So should have Boise joined the MW or not? You bring up a good point us joining the PAC has some similarities to Boise joining the MW back in the day, if they were better off in the smaller conference?

End of the day the PAC will make more money per year baseline, they will make much more money in NCAA credits. conference SOS in football and basketball will be better easily.

These things can be overcome, but it does handicap the MW schools. IF there is a 1 loss or undefeated team in each conference, the PAC will get the nod in football. Easy. Unless the MW team has multiple upsets in the P4 that year.

Yes, Boise should have joined the MW when they did. Things were much different then than they are now, and the situation almost completely different.

No CFP at the time and no indication that it was coming anytime soon. More revenue and better competition to enhance your status as a top 25 program. From what I’ve found the cost to leave the WAC was $5million. Getting out of the WAC for $5mil was probably worth it.

Boise was also walking into a league where they knew they’d be competitive, if not dominant on day one, which has proved out.

Comparing that decision to UNLVs is apples to oranges. Sure, if UNLV could’ve gone to the PAC under similar circumstances they would be silly not to, but that’s not the case.

It would have cost UNLV on the low side (winning in the courts) $10-$12 million, i.e. exit fees getting negotiated down from $18 million, to upwards of $25 million on the high side with the incentives given to stay.

And by all measures UNLV could not afford that. Forget resigning Odom even if Purdue hadn’t come calling, forget $3.5 million for Mullen, forget it all. We’d have had to mortgage everything just to be one of the worst teams with the fewest resources in the PAC.

The PAC isn’t and never will be a power conference. They won’t even be the clear premier G5 conference. Will they, along with the AAC be better than the MW? Yes, in the long term, absolutely yes. In the long term however more things are going to change, and the next two to three years probably matters more.

In the short term UNLV will have more resources to pursue a better long term outcome.

 

[Rebel1986]

All you need to do is schedule one really tough game at the beginning of the season. Ask Boise!

 

[j. spilotro]

All you need to do is schedule one really tough game at the beginning of the season. Ask Boise!

Actually, that’s a really good point.