Gorman picked to win it all again
- Thread starter bcvegaspt
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I don't see them running the table this season mainly due to the lack of physical pass catchers and a tough out of state schedule of football schools. That said, Gorman has the depth on defense, the offensive backfield and on the offensive line to generally be the favorite in nearly any contest on the high school level.
Hard to beat a program that has a heavy amount of kids enrolled primarily to play a specific sport. Every other program has zone limitations in building a team so they may get a few football players but they generally have to build a team with the best available kid in the neighborhood.
That said, there are few contenders this year that will be in the mix if they keep their primary players healthy.
Hard to beat a program that has a heavy amount of kids enrolled primarily to play a specific sport. Every other program has zone limitations in building a team so they may get a few football players but they generally have to build a team with the best available kid in the neighborhood.
That said, there are few contenders this year that will be in the mix if they keep their primary players healthy.
I've taken my jabs at Will, but not sure if one is justified here. I cannot take anyone seriously who will not acknowledge that Gorman plays by a different set of rules than everyone else. I have a love/hate relationship with Gorman. Love that they can attract talent and represent Las Vegas HS sports on a national level. Love that it has the potential to help UNLV get inroads for talent. Hate that they compete for the same state championship as public schools. Honestly, it takes a lot of fun out of Nevada HS football, IMO, to know that whichever team is the "best of the rest" is not going to have a chance against Gorman for the state title.
Who knows, though... maybe Coach Sanchez deserves more credit than he gets for raising that program to its current state. Maybe we'll see a dip in the next few years. But if we do, that doesn't mean that the system is OK, it just means that Gorman isn't good enough at utilizing the advantages that it is allowed as a private school.
BG as a private school is not held to the zone limitations, as well as the fact they recruit out of state players, but many of the public schools just find ways to get around zone limitations. That include the following:
Before entering high school, many families just move into a school district of the high school they want their kids to attend. This is the main reason why there is a huge difference between the levels of different high school football programs. It is very common that lower league programs push kids to move so that they can play at a specific high school program. It is not hard to see that a star would not want to play at a program like Rancho or Chaparral where they would get very little coverage and likely be missed by most college recruiters.
Players who live outside of the school zoning boundaries show they live with family members that are located within the boundary limits of a school. I have seen this happen many times and this is why there are so many have and have not programs. Programs like Chaparral see many of there best players find ways to go to other schools.
If you apply to a magnet program and get in, you play for that school, and not the school near were you live. I am not sure if this is a very common way to change sports programs since most of the magnet schools are not that good in sports.
As for my being bothered by the fact that BG competes against schools on a playing field that is not even, all that went out the door when they started selective zoning boundaries based on politics and not location. When they revised the school zoning boundaries for Chaparral about 15 years ago they removed the vast majority of better neighborhoods and left Chaparral with really bad areas as the replacements. Chaparral now has good areas that are not zoned for the school only a mile or two away, but has people that go to the school from areas over 5 miles away in other directions. Selective zoning does more to destroy a school than anything else.
Before entering high school, many families just move into a school district of the high school they want their kids to attend. This is the main reason why there is a huge difference between the levels of different high school football programs. It is very common that lower league programs push kids to move so that they can play at a specific high school program. It is not hard to see that a star would not want to play at a program like Rancho or Chaparral where they would get very little coverage and likely be missed by most college recruiters.
Players who live outside of the school zoning boundaries show they live with family members that are located within the boundary limits of a school. I have seen this happen many times and this is why there are so many have and have not programs. Programs like Chaparral see many of there best players find ways to go to other schools.
If you apply to a magnet program and get in, you play for that school, and not the school near were you live. I am not sure if this is a very common way to change sports programs since most of the magnet schools are not that good in sports.
As for my being bothered by the fact that BG competes against schools on a playing field that is not even, all that went out the door when they started selective zoning boundaries based on politics and not location. When they revised the school zoning boundaries for Chaparral about 15 years ago they removed the vast majority of better neighborhoods and left Chaparral with really bad areas as the replacements. Chaparral now has good areas that are not zoned for the school only a mile or two away, but has people that go to the school from areas over 5 miles away in other directions. Selective zoning does more to destroy a school than anything else.
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The difference between Gorman and the public school is that maybe 5-10% of players at a good public school may have fudged information to choose a more competitive school.
At Gorman, around 80% of athletes are enrolled to play a specific sport. Nearly every starter on last year's team beyond Fertitta were at the school strictly to play football.
As for Chaparral, they were victims of zoning along with bad coaching. The Las Vegas HS program cut heavily into the program but they still had some great individual talents over the years. Richard Nelson and Casey Acosta are oustanding talents that will lead the 2015 edition. I'm happy to see the program get back on its feet.
Western is the program that took the biggest hit in recent years as well as horrible coaching. I'm really hope the new staff can work magic there too.
https://rivals.yahoo.com/nevadaprepreport/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-3668/0
https://rivals.yahoo.com/nevadaprepreport/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-3727/0
At Gorman, around 80% of athletes are enrolled to play a specific sport. Nearly every starter on last year's team beyond Fertitta were at the school strictly to play football.
As for Chaparral, they were victims of zoning along with bad coaching. The Las Vegas HS program cut heavily into the program but they still had some great individual talents over the years. Richard Nelson and Casey Acosta are oustanding talents that will lead the 2015 edition. I'm happy to see the program get back on its feet.
Western is the program that took the biggest hit in recent years as well as horrible coaching. I'm really hope the new staff can work magic there too.
https://rivals.yahoo.com/nevadaprepreport/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-3668/0
https://rivals.yahoo.com/nevadaprepreport/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-3727/0
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I get your point, but as I said above, Gorman's [past] shortcomings say more about their shortcomings than it does about the system that allows them more freedom than any other school.
I've always thought of it like this: a lot of people hate or hated the Yankees for having such a huge payroll and stocking talent. This is nothing more than sour grapes/jealousy because the Astros are allowed to spend just as much as the Yankees but don't/can't. Now, if the Yankees had no salary cap and everyone else did, then fans of other teams have a legit gripe about the system.
THAT is the system we have in southern Nevada. Gorman has one set of rules and all of the other teams have another, and it inarguably gives Gorman an ede over everyone else.
Again, I am no Gorman hater, and I root for them to do well especially when they play schools from other states, but I wouldn't mind seeing other schools with a level playing field for that state title that means so much to them.
I hate Bishop Gorman as a 1990 Valley High School alum. BUT I respect that they have brought national attention to Las Vegas football. UNLV will surely reap the rewards of Las Vegas Highschool football helping to make Las Vegas a football culture. Part of the reason (albeit a small one) UNLV has struggled is because Las Vegas doesn't (or didn't) have a strong football culture. Now high school programs and competitiveness is becoming entrenched into the community, Las Vegans may start to care about building a true UNLV football program.
The Las Vegas Valley is large enough to have more than one private school (that matters).
I get that things have changed in the HS landscape, I graduated from HS in Orange County in '88 from a Public School that competetd very well in football with MAter Dei and Servite the only 2 large Private schools in OC at the time. They werent the powers they are today, back then there still was a neighborhood school.
Now in OC in addition to MD and Servite there is Santa Magarita, JSerra and Orange Lutheren (which was a 400 kid school that played in the lowest level when I was in HS) those schools get the best players in OC and from some (not much) of the surrounding counties as well. I live in San Diego (closer in size to LV) and we have 2 private school powers Cathederal and St Augustine
So is it politics that keep LV from having another? Maybe Faith becomes more of a power as some kids that dont get what they want at BG and leave? But to me it seems there should be a Catholic school on both sides of the Valley for if nothing else logistics.
I get that things have changed in the HS landscape, I graduated from HS in Orange County in '88 from a Public School that competetd very well in football with MAter Dei and Servite the only 2 large Private schools in OC at the time. They werent the powers they are today, back then there still was a neighborhood school.
Now in OC in addition to MD and Servite there is Santa Magarita, JSerra and Orange Lutheren (which was a 400 kid school that played in the lowest level when I was in HS) those schools get the best players in OC and from some (not much) of the surrounding counties as well. I live in San Diego (closer in size to LV) and we have 2 private school powers Cathederal and St Augustine
So is it politics that keep LV from having another? Maybe Faith becomes more of a power as some kids that dont get what they want at BG and leave? But to me it seems there should be a Catholic school on both sides of the Valley for if nothing else logistics.
Faith will never become a football power, admin still has a mindset of a 1a school not a 4a school, hired and then fired the worst strength coach you could ever hire because he worked at "Gorman" but wasn't even strength coach at Gorman, they thought they were stealing Gorman coaches but he sucked! That just one example of their small time mindset, hire a guy as a strength coach, who wasn't even a strength coach just cause he coached wrestling at Gorman for a couple seasons, it was a joke. Now going up to the big school division Faith will be getting smacked around again.
As a high school guy, I honestly don't prefer to see Nevada go the California route where private schools raid the traditional high schools for talent.
From my point of view, having power private schools doesn't increase opportunity. For all the success, generally the Gaels only produce 2-3 productive college football players per year and many of the kids that have signed in the past drop of the sports all together by their third year of college.
The public school system has been better at producing athletes that are capable of excelling at the next level though the talent is very spread out. I also love the competitive level of play displayed by traditionally built programs with kids that are just out to compete and enjoy the game.
Lake Mead, Calvery Chapel, The Meadows, Mountain View Christian and Faith Lutheran are all private programs that could go the Gorman route sometime in the future but hopefully they continue to allow Gorman to go it alone. Although teams battled not to balance out the old 4A with D1 and 1A, the D1A level is quickly rising as a better high school experience for public high school programs and traditionally built private programs.
As a competitor, I could never feel good about winning high school state titles with an artificially built team that was placed together specifically to give you an advantage to win.
From my point of view, having power private schools doesn't increase opportunity. For all the success, generally the Gaels only produce 2-3 productive college football players per year and many of the kids that have signed in the past drop of the sports all together by their third year of college.
The public school system has been better at producing athletes that are capable of excelling at the next level though the talent is very spread out. I also love the competitive level of play displayed by traditionally built programs with kids that are just out to compete and enjoy the game.
Lake Mead, Calvery Chapel, The Meadows, Mountain View Christian and Faith Lutheran are all private programs that could go the Gorman route sometime in the future but hopefully they continue to allow Gorman to go it alone. Although teams battled not to balance out the old 4A with D1 and 1A, the D1A level is quickly rising as a better high school experience for public high school programs and traditionally built private programs.
As a competitor, I could never feel good about winning high school state titles with an artificially built team that was placed together specifically to give you an advantage to win.
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If you look at all of the private schools that could in the future have a large athletic program, I would think Green Valley Christian would be the most likely. Currently it goes from daycare through 12th grade as a college prep school that just recently added high school. With all the grades that they have, they are currently the largest private school in the state.
Will, I agree but that still doesn't change the fact that Las Vegas has gained quite a bit of national attention which all Las Vegas high school football teams, private and public alike, will hopefully benefit from.
My point is about changing football culture as a whole in Las Vegas. A stronger interest in high school football will not only create even better local talent but a stronger desire to make UNLV better program and attend games.
My point is about changing football culture as a whole in Las Vegas. A stronger interest in high school football will not only create even better local talent but a stronger desire to make UNLV better program and attend games.
National attention is great for Gorman but I would have to strongly disagree for Nevada as a whole. It actually makes opposing teams look worse when you have a team that completely annihilate the teams in its area. You also create an environment where opposing programs are at a competitive disadvantage while creating an environment that encourages cheating and attempts to find loopholes.
Las Vegas, as an area actually, has a great football couture, its just UNLV as a school and program that lacks a football couture. Good high school games in the area have always been heavily attended and many playoff games are usually standing room only even going back to the 80s.
The Bone Game, Henderson Bowl, Cleat Game, Battle of the Bulls ect; you see a tone of energy at high school contest throughout the valley.
As I said before, UNLV has a problem in which they are disconnected from the community. The #1 thing is that the football program annually loses a lot of games and the #2 problem is that the program lacks many marketable players. I'm honestly surprised they haven't placed any billboards around town highlighting Basic's Devonte Boyd and Palo Verde's Mike Hughes.
A smart move this season would be to allow kids to enter free with a paying adult at none prime games
I can see that you are way too close to LVHS football to have any objectivity. Las Vegas doesn't compare to the rest of the country when it comes to high school in terms of culture. Games maybe be well attended according to you (although I disagree with you especially when you consider total attendance). Come on man, you can't tell me Las Vegas high school football has been known nationally outside of the last ten years?
It's not about BGHS football demolishing other teams, it's about Vegas entering a new level in high school football and the exposure Gorman provides is helping the Las Vegas High School football programs. Why is this difficult to understand and why do you have such a hard on for Gorman. I thought it was Sanchez but maybe your issue is with the Gorman itself. Whatever Will, you know your football and I like that, but the rest reminds of a transplant with no Vegas roots at all. You have some bone with Sanchez and or Gorman AND I wouldn't call you a fan of UNLV football. Maybe an interested party for the obvious reasons of your profession.
Are you a fan of Rebel football? If you are a fan, I'm a bit lost. If not, you're for another place and likely still support them. Which one is it?
Whatever the answer, I have a tremendous amount of respect that you continue to post even with all criticism. That's gotta mean something, right?
I agree about the losing. Nobody wants to watch consistent losing, even diehards. Marketing local players? Meh...I'm sorry but I don't think marketing local players will change it. I agree with marketing as a whole. But do really think a focus on local players will draw more people to attend? Why? Only diehards and family know the local players.
Dude...your business has skewed your perspective of reality.
I don't think anyone knows the overall high school attendance but quality teams draw great crowds. Las Vegas isn't some one stop light town so for a metropolitan area, the games are very well attended.
I'm actually born and raised in Las Vegas. My parents arrived here in the mid 1960s and I grew up in the Twin Lakes area. I've been doing the high school sports thing since 2001 primarily because I am apart of the community and I enjoy giving back to the many athletes that have called the area home.
I've been a UNLV fan since the first time I attended a game in around 1984 but I went the California JC route post high school.
As for Gorman, nationally people know about the program but nationally they wouldn't be able to name the teams they beat for the state title. That is exposure is Gorman exposure, not Nevada or Las Vegas. Many teams from Las Vegas have been ranked in the past but Gorman is the only one to rise though creating an uneven playing field.
I enjoyed seeing the Gaels win their first state title. I had watched the team fall to the Wildcats with DeMarco Murray ,attended both battles with Rockbridge (MO) I watched them fall to the Palo Verde Panthers the year after the title and it was amazing when they upset the undefeated Spartans in the playoffs.
I'm just not a fan seeing a team assembled specifically to give you an advantage on the playing field playing for state titles versus public schools
As for marketing, 83% of the students enrolled at UNLV were instate residents in 2014. Most of those 23,589 generally went to high school in Las Vegas and are friends or a few times removed from the any local player on the roster. You disagree but in the building of a football culture at UNLV it should involve marketing the local players that students and other local football fans would be familiar with. You are trying to get people to buy a product and the bottom line is that UNLV football is a product that wants to be an entertainment option for locals and alumni.
I would suspect at least 80-88% of UNLV alumni are Nevadans and for any locally produced entertainment product, the key to drawing people is though familiarity and a sense of community.
You could simply take a marketing photo of you local athletes with their high schools listed and put "Home Grown, Rebel Football." Make it a free poster with the schedule listed. Send it to the local high school and businesses while placing it in strategic areas around campus
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I will disagree in regards to the size of the crowds, with rare exceptions they are far smaller now than in the 70's-80's. When the city only had 10 high schools thing were a lot different and Las Vegas still had a small town feeling to it where those located in the vicinity of their high school would show up and support the programs to a level that does not exist anymore. It was common that most games back then had 5-7K at almost every game. I can watch tape or go by the games now and most of the games are lucky to draw more than a couple of thousand fans at most.
In regards to the quality of football, I will agree that most of the high school programs have improved a lot in the last 5-7 years with a move towards year round training and practice that always existed in hot beads like Florida, Texas, etc. but never existed in the Las Vegas valley until recently. As for BG helping or hurting the overall prospects for players from other teams, I think it has help out, and I have seen a slow but steady increase in the number of players receiving offers, which has really had a bump in the last year or two.
In regards to the quality of football, I will agree that most of the high school programs have improved a lot in the last 5-7 years with a move towards year round training and practice that always existed in hot beads like Florida, Texas, etc. but never existed in the Las Vegas valley until recently. As for BG helping or hurting the overall prospects for players from other teams, I think it has help out, and I have seen a slow but steady increase in the number of players receiving offers, which has really had a bump in the last year or two.
The bleachers accommodate a lot more people than they did in 70s and 80s, even the 90s.
Every Las Vegas area high school can hold around 5000-6000 people in the bleachers, twice the number the old bleachers could hold. If you attend a good game among Las Vegas area teams, you are often stuck walking at least half a mile back to the stadium if you arrive within 30 minutes of kickoff. It just seems to be not as packed due to the increased bleacher size but the games can be really hectic.
The small town atmosphere did make a difference but there are still a lot of huge crowds and many people never make it through the gate due to the extremely long lines. Canyon Springs, Moapa Valley, Gorman, Basic, Palo Verde, Foothill, Las Vegas and Arbor View have the most energetic crowds. I'm sure I have video, the games are still a good experience and there is a loaded slate of big games this season.
Former UNLV running back Mike Water and I had a discussion about improving the focused training of local athletes. His Phase 1 Sports started the trend and has made Nevada the training hotbed. We literally took kids to camps to help them gain exposure that allowed athletics to advance with more opportunity.
As for the offers, the number of kids getting BCS offers has actually dropped including the overall FBS options with the rise of Bishop Gorman. Just 4 non-Gorman kids signed with non-service academy programs last season with FCS schools along with smaller programs getting a good windfall of players.
8 non-Gorman kids signed in the 2014 class with 5 of that group either listed as starters or in the 2-deep of the school they attend.
Prior to the rise of Bishop Gorman, there were bigger pipelines to major conferences but the Gaels have made the state look talent poor making it tougher to get programs to consider putting offers out to kids from lesser known programs.
Overall, I love the level of competition but I feel we need a few teams to take down the Gaels to get more coaches to take a harder look in the valley.
Every Las Vegas area high school can hold around 5000-6000 people in the bleachers, twice the number the old bleachers could hold. If you attend a good game among Las Vegas area teams, you are often stuck walking at least half a mile back to the stadium if you arrive within 30 minutes of kickoff. It just seems to be not as packed due to the increased bleacher size but the games can be really hectic.
The small town atmosphere did make a difference but there are still a lot of huge crowds and many people never make it through the gate due to the extremely long lines. Canyon Springs, Moapa Valley, Gorman, Basic, Palo Verde, Foothill, Las Vegas and Arbor View have the most energetic crowds. I'm sure I have video, the games are still a good experience and there is a loaded slate of big games this season.
Former UNLV running back Mike Water and I had a discussion about improving the focused training of local athletes. His Phase 1 Sports started the trend and has made Nevada the training hotbed. We literally took kids to camps to help them gain exposure that allowed athletics to advance with more opportunity.
As for the offers, the number of kids getting BCS offers has actually dropped including the overall FBS options with the rise of Bishop Gorman. Just 4 non-Gorman kids signed with non-service academy programs last season with FCS schools along with smaller programs getting a good windfall of players.
8 non-Gorman kids signed in the 2014 class with 5 of that group either listed as starters or in the 2-deep of the school they attend.
Prior to the rise of Bishop Gorman, there were bigger pipelines to major conferences but the Gaels have made the state look talent poor making it tougher to get programs to consider putting offers out to kids from lesser known programs.
Overall, I love the level of competition but I feel we need a few teams to take down the Gaels to get more coaches to take a harder look in the valley.
