GCU to the Mountain West

[Bullmastiff 1]

And that is kinda my point.

We don't have to have more than 8 football, which again isn't a terrible thing.

I mean look at it this year. CSU could sneak into the MWCG without playing the far and away 2 best teams in the conference this year. That kinda sucks.

We are already stretching ourselves with the 8 we have. We really can't afford another without it helping everyone's bottom line

If you are a commisioner and one of your top programs asked for a clause allowing them to pursue P4 opportunities with zero exit fees, you damn well better prepare yourself for that possibility.

Do I think it's going to happen? Unlikely.

Not to mention if UNLV left AFA is likely AAC bound at that point. You'd be back down to six full members.

I'm not enthralled by any of the options out there but you better be proactive here vs having to scramble again in the future.

And again any additions do not hurt UNLV. We get our money regardless. What's Wyoming gonna do? Complain and leave for CUSA because media deal drops from 5 mil to 4 mil per year? Even 3 million a year is 3x what CUSA is paying.

I'm not saying she needs 12 or 14 or 16 but 9-10 full members at least guards against potential losses down the road.

 

[dcut03]

If you are a commisioner and one of your top programs asked for a clause allowing them to pursue P4 opportunities with zero exit fees, you damn well better prepare yourself for that possibility.

Do I think it's going to happen? Unlikely.

Not to mention if UNLV left AFA is likely AAC bound at that point. You'd be back down to six full members.

I'm not enthralled by any of the options out there but you better be proactive here vs having to scramble again in the future.

And again any additions do not hurt UNLV. We get our money regardless. What's Wyoming gonna do? Complain and leave for CUSA because media deal drops from 5 mil to 4 mil per year? Even 3 million a year is 3x what CUSA is paying.

I'm not saying she needs 12 or 14 or 16 but 9-10 full members at least guards against potential losses down the road.

Cross that bridge when you get there.

Really UNLV is the only one that is a threat to leave for free.
AFA could leave for the AAC, but it seems like they would have done that this past couple of months IF that were to happen. Seemed to be locked in the MW for the foreseeable future. If they were to leave now, they have to pay a pretty penny.

Bloating the conference, hurting everyone's pockets now just to protect from teams leaving just isn't worth it. Especially if the commish is telling everyone they aren't getting any less than what they are used to, which seems very unlikely with the next contract. I don't think inflation offsets losing your 4 best markets.

So overpromising money that likely has to be offset with exit/poaching fees, that both wells could be reduced from negotiations and lawsuits. They have some wiggle room with a escrow of sorts of funds that have not been allocated, but adding more mouths to feed is going to stretch that cushion even further.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Cross that bridge when you get there.

Really UNLV is the only one that is a threat to leave for free.
AFA could leave for the AAC, but it seems like they would have done that this past couple of months IF that were to happen. Seemed to be locked in the MW for the foreseeable future. If they were to leave now, they have to pay a pretty penny.

Bloating the conference, hurting everyone's pockets now just to protect from teams leaving just isn't worth it. Especially if the commish is telling everyone they aren't getting any less than what they are used to, which seems very unlikely with the next contract. I don't think inflation offsets losing your 4 best markets.

So overpromising money that likely has to be offset with exit/poaching fees, that both wells could be reduced from negotiations and lawsuits. They have some wiggle room with a escrow of sorts of funds that have not been allocated, but adding more mouths to feed is going to stretch that cushion even further.

We had to add UTEP to survive (sorry to any UTEP fans lurking on here). That alone should tell you how shaky of a situation the MWC is in. She could offer NMSU a half share and it's double their current deal. Same with Sam Houston State or WKU or even LA Tech. Tarleton State was talked to.

 

[LocoRebel]

I mean look at it this year. CSU could sneak into the MWCG without playing the far and away 2 best teams in the conference this year. That kinda sucks.

Especially for a conference like the MWC, where we can all want it to be a top tier league, but also all know that it will never been recognized as such, I had a thought for unbalanced scheduling.

Going to 9 teams playing an 8 game conference schedule or 10 and playing 9 games would eliminate the need for this. But here's where I'm at:

You're the MWC. You have 12 teams. You want to make sure your strongest team (or one with the best chance to "get in") is poised to be in the chair at the end of the season.

You have BSU, who is firmly in control of its own destiny. Basically as the conference, if they get in, you get the spot. But what if they don't win the conference title and someone like CSU, who has no real chance at being the highest ranked G5 team if they win the MWC wins. And they do it by avoiding the top 2 teams in the conference.

You leave the week before conference championship week open on all schedules. Or maybe you do this 2 weeks prior.

4 games into conference play, when you have already seen about where everybody is lined up, and you know who hasn't played, you force those matchups as eliminator games. Set CSU vs UNLV for that week. Give Boise another good win (or do you give them a lock in that scenario?). Get flexible scheduling on the conference road map and ensure you don't have a humpty humpty accidental winner of the conference by not beating one of your 2 or 3 good teams.


I'm sure stadiums and teams probably wouldn't love it. But you'd also draw TV eyes on the 1 or 2 match ups that mean something.

It gets your good teams in the conversation and keeps the bad teams out.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

Recency bias.

Again, I LIKE the GCU add. I'm just saying that St. Mary's has been the better basketball program, and it isn't that close

I agree you had said they had zero wins in tourney just pointing out they do have one.

 

[RebelinWA]

Recency bias.

Again, I LIKE the GCU add. I'm just saying that St. Mary's has been the better basketball program, and it isn't that close

I wish we could get both of them. Though I believe if St Marys doesn’t follow Gonzaga, more likely they’ll want to stay to run the table in the WCC.

If I’m St Marys, I don’t take anything less than what Gonzaga got if I follow them to the Pac. I don’t think the Pac can afford that type of deal again.

 

[Pistol Pete 1]

I wish we could get both of them. Though I believe if St Marys doesn’t follow Gonzaga, more likely they’ll want to stay to run the table in the WCC.

If I’m St Marys, I don’t take anything less than what Gonzaga got if I follow them to the Pac. I don’t think the Pac can afford that type of deal again.

Or St Mary's tells the WCC they want the same deal Gonzaga had & dominate the WCC.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

We need more basketball schools period. We should be able to get GCU at a discounted share of the media revenue. They have been a quality program recently and adds a great market.
Any full fledged members that have football will likely drive the media payouts lower than what they currently are realistically. So adding GCU, and I think they should try to get St. Mary's, will get us much needed additional conference basketball games and add 1 (or 2) tournament quality programs.

Canzano is saying that GCU cost to join the MWC would be $3.5 million and they would earn $1.5 million in media rights "guaranteed" over 6 years.

edit: Forgot to post the link......

Canzano: Mountain West in pursuit of Grand Canyon

WCC playing defense with the new member.

www.johncanzano.com

 

[dcut03]

We had to add UTEP to survive (sorry to any UTEP fans lurking on here). That alone should tell you how shaky of a situation the MWC is in. She could offer NMSU a half share and it's double their current deal. Same with Sam Houston State or WKU or even LA Tech. Tarleton State was talked to.

That is an option, but having an unbalanced pay schedule is a shaky proposition that usually ends poorly.

MW regretted it with Boise. The big 12 pushed A&M to the SEC because of it.

Sure UNLV and AFA are getting more this next contract, but that is just an unequal share of the fees. The base media contract will stay the same.

Adding a poor market at a reduced share now would at least save some money, but the rewards of that are low, while the risk could be high.

If UNLV hopefully leaves in the near future ( BIG 12 2028 babaaay!!, lol). Then there will likely be some other mix ups around college sports and a more fitting option may be there in the future.

If Sam or NMSU make a jump, and they start to compete at a high level in this conference and start demanding a higher share, you will start to get in trouble. Unlikely sure, but still possible.

 

[dcut03]

Canzano is saying that GCU cost to join the MWC would be $3.5 million and they would earn $1.5 million in media rights "guaranteed" over 6 years.

edit: Forgot to post the link......

Canzano: Mountain West in pursuit of Grand Canyon

WCC playing defense with the new member.

www.johncanzano.com

Higher initial costs than I would have expected.

The WCC is going to the tubes without Gonzaga, I would imagine any of those teams are up for grabs for a reasonable price. Their TV payouts are going to tank.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Higher initial costs than I would have expected.

The WCC is going to the tubes without Gonzaga, I would imagine any of those teams are up for grabs for a reasonable price. Their TV payouts are going to tank.

Apparently that was the offer which at this point I would think GCU would negotiate. That article is already 4 days old I'm thinking maybe they are also trying to cut a deal with the Pac12. That would make sense if they want to be in a conference with Zag basketball. It will be interesting to see where they end up.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

The longer this GCU offer/acceptance drags on it's starting to look like they took the offer over to the Pac12 to use as leverage or a bargaining chip. Again, the MW looks to be getting played.

Time to move on. Who's next?

Time to shake things up and look at St. Mary's, San Francisco, USD, and University of Denver. St. Mary's basketball speaks for itself. USF, USD, and UD cover some large ass media markets. Sure, Denver isn't in a big conference but, if it were they would have potential for some better basketball recruits. Unlike CSU and Colorado the UofD is right in the middle of the Denver market. Couldn't be any worse than UTEP and a whole bunch of upside to them.

 

[Masked_rebel]

The longer this GCU offer/acceptance drags on it's starting to look like they took the offer over to the Pac12 to use as leverage or a bargaining chip. Again, the MW looks to be getting played.

Time to move on. Who's next?

Time to shake things up and look at St. Mary's, San Francisco, USD, and University of Denver. St. Mary's basketball speaks for itself. USF, USD, and UD cover some large ass media markets. Sure, Denver isn't in a big conference but, if it were they would have potential for some better basketball recruits. Unlike CSU and Colorado the UofD is right in the middle of the Denver market. Couldn't be any worse than UTEP and a whole bunch of upside to them.

The Pac 12 isn't pursuing GCU. They don't even have a conference, why add another non-football school.
Also, we don't need to shake things up. The MWC is not in a rush or need to add multiple programs, especially those without football. We don't need to be WCC+. GCU also isn't in a rush to leave. They're a building high level basketball program in a solid mid-major conference. There's not a huge rush to go anywhere else.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

The Pac 12 isn't pursuing GCU. They don't even have a conference, why add another non-football school.
Also, we don't need to shake things up. The MWC is not in a rush or need to add multiple programs, especially those without football. We don't need to be WCC+. GCU also isn't in a rush to leave. They're a building high level basketball program in a solid mid-major conference. There's not a huge rush to go anywhere else.

Excellent thoughts. Getting back to GCU I would think that even Gloria sees how weak our conference is going to be in basketball so she was hoping to get them to help. I'm getting the same Texas State type of vibe where GCU will eventually turn us down. Where should we go then for some good basketball teams. We have UNM and UNR as the two best programs in the conference and the rest just suck. This doesn't help our media contract either.

 

[saulpaul21]

Having the great GCU fan support showing on tv makes them attractive. They have lots of parallels to Unlv in the 70's after Tark arrived.

 

[SilverSpoon]

GCU would definitely cover their cost without adding any dead weight. They bring a great Baseball and Basketball program. But, most importantly, they also bring their Olympic sports. Similar to football, when scheduling non conference games, you have to entice those teams to come and play with $. If our Olympic sports are forced to fill a schedule with non-conference teams, that sht is going to add up. That additional money we're making from the loyalty agreement is gone if we can't find enough non-football conference schools.

The PAC is in the same predicament. It's only a matter of time before the WCC is raided for the much needed schedule fillers. Primarily because there aren't any decent football teams left out west that are worth sharing that media money with. St Mary's and GCU know this.

The only way the WCC is saved is if the PAC successfully poaches Memphis and Tulane from the AAC.

What a sht show SDSU has caused.

 

[Masked_rebel]

GCU announced they're joining

 

[Meister_Rebel]

GCU announced they're joining

excellent news. I was already giving up on them.

Mountain West Officially Welcomes Grand Canyon University

themw.com

 

[Meister_Rebel]

To be in the Phoenix media market and adding exceptional basketball and baseball to the conference is great news.

From their athletic website they may enter the MWC 2nd Qtr of 2025 depending on conference rules.

 

[Rebel1986]

In the long run GCU is a much better program to bring into the conference than Gonzaga was for the PAC due to the size and financing of GCU which will ultimately end up having a college football program, while Gonzaga will never be a big enough school to ever add football. It also doesn't hurt to have a school located in the Phoenix market. I do wonder if during the discussions anything was ever brought up regarding the possibility of adding football at GCU?

 

[RebelinWA]

In the long run GCU is a much better program to bring into the conference than Gonzaga was for the PAC due to the size and financing of GCU which will ultimately end up having a college football program, while Gonzaga will never be a big enough school to ever add football. It also doesn't hurt to have a school located in the Phoenix market. I do wonder if during the discussions anything was ever brought up regarding the possibility of adding football at GCU?

Unfortunately there are no plans for GCU to add football. But to your point, they are definitely large enough to support a team if they eventually build a program. That school has a lot of money.

 

[utestream]

excellent news. I was already giving up on them.

Mountain West Officially Welcomes Grand Canyon University

themw.com

Gloria has done an excellent job. It was a good decision for UNLV to remain in the Mountain West, solidify its finances, focus on football and plan for Big 12 expansion. Schools considering the Pac 7/8 need to consider the Pac's incompetent leadership and unmet expectations.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

I imagine St. Mary's is next on the target list for basketball only.

 

[Masked_rebel]

I imagine St. Mary's is next on the target list for basketball only.

Why... Theres no reason. We dont need to go on a raid of the WCC just to muddy the basketball waters. The conference is a now a max 3-4 bid league and that's not changing no matter who we add. They need to go focus on football programs and what that means for the media rights deal.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

Why... Theres no reason. We dont need to go on a raid of the WCC just to muddy the basketball waters. The conference is a now a max 3-4 bid league and that's not changing no matter who we add. They need to go focus on football programs and what that means for the media rights deal.

I imagine they will add in order to make it balanced. But if we add St. Mary's that is almost another guaranteed bid. If we are a 2 bid league now that makes it 3. I don't see us getting 4 as it stands.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

In the long run GCU is a much better program to bring into the conference than Gonzaga was for the PAC due to the size and financing of GCU which will ultimately end up having a college football program, while Gonzaga will never be a big enough school to ever add football. It also doesn't hurt to have a school located in the Phoenix market. I do wonder if during the discussions anything was ever brought up regarding the possibility of adding football at GCU?

As far fetched as a BIG12 invite may be, I hope UNLV is long gone by the time GCU gets football (if they even try to add football).

As long as MWC isn't giving GCU a full share its definitely a better addition. Sure Gonzaga is the far superior program in basketball.

But in terms of contracts..

PAC giving them a full share of media revenue is money out of the pockets of their other schools. Every media rights package is being divided by one extra making that promise of 12-15 million harder to obtain.

 

[LVRebel2000]

As far fetched as a BIG12 invite may be, I hope UNLV is long gone by the time GCU gets football (if they even try to add football).

As long as MWC isn't giving GCU a full share its definitely a better addition. Sure Gonzaga is the far superior program in basketball.

But in terms of contracts..

PAC giving them a full share of media revenue is money out of the pockets of their other schools. Every media rights package is being divided by one extra making that promise of 12-15 million harder to obtain.

I can't see any way that GCU is getting a full share from the MWC. My guess would be around 25% but that's completely speculation based on some other things I've seen about the media value of football vs other sports.

Unless you're Gonzaga/UConn, etc. Then basketball pays the bills.

 

[dcut03]

Why... Theres no reason. We dont need to go on a raid of the WCC just to muddy the basketball waters. The conference is a now a max 3-4 bid league and that's not changing no matter who we add. They need to go focus on football programs and what that means for the media rights deal.

Adding a quality basketball team is always a good thing. We are losing 4 of our top half basketball programs. We also need more teams to fill out basketball conference scheduling.
The WCC is toast, which means that the MW has a lot of leverage to maybe add these schools. So we can get another quality team at a discount.

 

[dcut03]

In the long run GCU is a much better program to bring into the conference than Gonzaga was for the PAC due to the size and financing of GCU which will ultimately end up having a college football program, while Gonzaga will never be a big enough school to ever add football. It also doesn't hurt to have a school located in the Phoenix market. I do wonder if during the discussions anything was ever brought up regarding the possibility of adding football at GCU?

Maybe? But that is like saying that adding Duke would be stupid because they are a small school.

Gonzaga is arguably the best basketball program in the entire west. Some online school with a lot of money in a great market is promising, but saying they are a better add is pretty silly.

And in general we don't want football programs that are starting from scratch in our league. If they do add football, I hope that we force them to play in the WAC or D1-AA for a few years before accepting them.

 

[WarthogRebel]

Remaining WCC teams : St. Mary's, USF, Santa Clara, Pepperdine, San Diego, LMU, Portland and Pacific.
Big West Teams: Irvine, San Diego, Davis, Long Beach, Riverside, Northridge, UCSB, Bakersfield, Cal Poly and Bakersfield.
WAC: Tarlton, UT Arlington, Seattle, Utah Valley, SF Auston, A. Christian, Utah Tech, Southern Utah and Rio Grande.

Take the best two of these considering facilities, history, current quality and market. That gives each team 20 conference games leaving loads of room for a quality OOC. Travel costs would be minimal.

My two would be St. Mary's and USF.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Adding a quality basketball team is always a good thing. We are losing 4 of our top half basketball programs. We also need more teams to fill out basketball conference scheduling.
The WCC is toast, which means that the MW has a lot of leverage to maybe add these schools. So we can get another quality team at a discount.

I go to St Mary's next. If for no other reason than to drive the price up for the PAC.

Like the Mets new owner said about Ohtani.. We're going to make him the highest paid player in MLB. Either with us or somebody else.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

I can't see any way that GCU is getting a full share from the MWC. My guess would be around 25% but that's completely speculation based on some other things I've seen about the media value of football vs other sports.

Unless you're Gonzaga/UConn, etc. Then basketball pays the bills.

When the MW made the offer it was reported that the buy in to join the conference was 3.5 million. GCU would then earn $1.5 million each year through 2032. Now is the $1.5 million 25% or 50% I don't know.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Maybe? But that is like saying that adding Duke would be stupid because they are a small school.

Gonzaga is arguably the best basketball program in the entire west. Some online school with a lot of money in a great market is promising, but saying they are a better add is pretty silly.

And in general we don't want football programs that are starting from scratch in our league. If they do add football, I hope that we force them to play in the WAC or D1-AA for a few years before accepting them.

Only reason it's a better add is it didn't take giving up full share to get them.

 

[1Tripoda]

Unfortunately there are no plans for GCU to add football. But to your point, they are definitely large enough to support a team if they eventually build a program. That school has a lot of money.

That school does have a lot of money. I have no idea where it is all from but they can definitely starts a football program whenever they want.

 

[1Tripoda]

Remaining WCC teams : St. Mary's, USF, Santa Clara, Pepperdine, San Diego, LMU, Portland and Pacific.
Big West Teams: Irvine, San Diego, Davis, Long Beach, Riverside, Northridge, UCSB, Bakersfield, Cal Poly and Bakersfield.
WAC: Tarlton, UT Arlington, Seattle, Utah Valley, SF Auston, A. Christian, Utah Tech, Southern Utah and Rio Grande.

Take the best two of these considering facilities, history, current quality and market. That gives each team 20 conference games leaving loads of room for a quality OOC. Travel costs would be minimal.

My two would be St. Mary's and USF.

I would take Seattle U and San Diego.

 

[RebelinWA]

That school does have a lot of money. I have no idea where it is all from but they can definitely starts a football program whenever they want.

I’ve wondered where they were able to build up a stockpile. Other than lying about academic success rates to incoming students, it could also be because they elected not to have a football program. Football programs are expensive. Though, now that they have a firm foundation, they could generate a program that won’t bankrupt them.

 

[rebelzzz]

MWC is at 9 basketball/olymipic sports teams and 8 football teams. It would be good to add one more team to each but i just dont see a team that adds much that would actually join the MWC. Main focus would be a team that makes football better. Rather that be one school that brings all sports or a football only and olympic sports only doesnt matter. But should be required to be school(s) that bring new markets

 

[Rebel1986]

Maybe? But that is like saying that adding Duke would be stupid because they are a small school.

Gonzaga is arguably the best basketball program in the entire west. Some online school with a lot of money in a great market is promising, but saying they are a better add is pretty silly.

And in general we don't want football programs that are starting from scratch in our league. If they do add football, I hope that we force them to play in the WAC or D1-AA for a few years before accepting them.

Not sure how you can compare a school with under 3,000 students (St. Mary's) to Duke which had 17K students in 2023.

 

[Boston Rebel 2]

When the MW made the offer it was reported that the buy in to join the conference was 3.5 million. GCU would then earn $1.5 million each year through 2032. Now is the $1.5 million 25% or 50% I don't know.

New contract is supposed to be $5MM? So that would be 30%.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

MWC is at 9 basketball/olymipic sports teams and 8 football teams. It would be good to add one more team to each but i just dont see a team that adds much that would actually join the MWC. Main focus would be a team that makes football better. Rather that be one school that brings all sports or a football only and olympic sports only doesnt matter. But should be required to be school(s) that bring new markets

NIU or Toledo (or both)would cover that and be solid additions.

I also think if either (or both) join there may be a move or two more made in football.