Finally got him!

[Rosegreen1]

Conditioning will always be a problem for freshmen

Yeah, maybe the beginning of the season but end of the season? I don’t think so.

 

[Couev]

Yes Pastner had some success but majority of that success was in his early years with majority of the ex coaches players so it’s hard to get up and think that he’s all of a sudden figured things out. I will be rooting for him and may like some of the players he’s bringing in. But until he actually has success here it’s a coin flip

I never really understood this narrative because it's just wrong. I'm still somewhere in the B- to C+ range on the hire, so don't take this so much as me defending Pastner, but this is just for discussion. The wheels fell off with Pastner for the last 2 years at Memphis. That much I think everyone can agree on (and by wheels falling off, I mean Kevin Kruger type seasons). His biggest issues were putting together a cohesive roster and getting the most out of his talent. He struggled in a tougher AAC conference (in 2013 for example UConn, Louisville, and Cincinatti were the marquee teams in the conference and UConn won the chip that year) but he also lost head scratcher games and struggled to get NBA results out of a bunch of NBA recruits he had on the squad. That's not the position I'm arguing. The position I'm arguing is that he didn't ride Cal's players to his successes at Memphis.

In 209-10 in his first year he went 24-10, was unranked all year, lost a heartbreaker in the CUSA opening round and went 1-1 in the NIT. He was never ranked in the top 25. During that season guys that had played on Cal's last team accounted 63.5% of the minutes played--and if you factor in the 2 guys who were Pastner recruits who stayed with him instead of following Cal to UK it was 35.3%. I chose minutes but if you pick points or hustle stats it becomes even more weighted against Cal's roster having big impact. You also have to understand that him retaining his highly recruited players (in this case Wes Witherspoon and Roburt Sallie) was part of the reason he got the job. But let's go with the high end to steel man your take.

In 2010-11 his second year he went 25-10, was ranked in the top 25 for the first 8 weeks of the season before struggling in early conference games, won the CUSA tournament and got a 12 seed and lost by 2 to a 5 seed Arizona. During that season guys that were on the last Calipari roster accounted for 7.4 % of the team's minutes, and if you remove guys that weren't Pastner's recruits it's 2 minutes out of 7075 on the year, or 0.02% And those minutes all came from his guy Wes Witherspoon who, again, he recruited to come to Memphis and stay there when cal left.

In 2011-12 his third year he went 26-9, was ranked in the top 25 for the first 5 weeks and had a tough time against his conference schedule again (and against ranked teams with Ls against Michigan, Georgetown x 2, Louisville, and a 31-2 Murray State team. Wesley Witherspoon again acounted for 10.2% of teams's minutes from Cal's roster.

2012 and 2013 he had 0 minutes from Cal's roster and went to the dance two more times with multiple weeks in the top 25, including his only 2 Big Dance wins.

By those metrics he barely got anything out of Calipari roster guys, and got nothing if you take away Wes Witherspoon who was a Pastner recruit. So I guess I'm not sure where you have come to this position. It's certainly not from any factual or statistical analysis.

There are plenty of reasons to be critical of this hire, but him only having success with Cal's guys is not one of them.

 

[Buffel]

I never really understood this narrative because it's just wrong. I'm still somewhere in the B- to C+ range on the hire, so don't take this so much as me defending Pastner, but this is just for discussion. The wheels fell off with Pastner for the last 2 years at Memphis. That much I think everyone can agree on (and by wheels falling off, I mean Kevin Kruger type seasons). His biggest issues were putting together a cohesive roster and getting the most out of his talent. He struggled in a tougher AAC conference (in 2013 for example UConn, Louisville, and Cincinatti were the marquee teams in the conference and UConn won the chip that year) but he also lost head scratcher games and struggled to get NBA results out of a bunch of NBA recruits he had on the squad. That's not the position I'm arguing. The position I'm arguing is that he didn't ride Cal's players to his successes at Memphis.

In 209-10 in his first year he went 24-10, was unranked all year, lost a heartbreaker in the CUSA opening round and went 1-1 in the NIT. He was never ranked in the top 25. During that season guys that had played on Cal's last team accounted 63.5% of the minutes played--and if you factor in the 2 guys who were Pastner recruits who stayed with him instead of following Cal to UK it was 35.3%. I chose minutes but if you pick points or hustle stats it becomes even more weighted against Cal's roster having big impact. You also have to understand that him retaining his highly recruited players (in this case Wes Witherspoon and Roburt Sallie) was part of the reason he got the job. But let's go with the high end to steel man your take.

In 2010-11 his second year he went 25-10, was ranked in the top 25 for the first 8 weeks of the season before struggling in early conference games, won the CUSA tournament and got a 12 seed and lost by 2 to a 5 seed Arizona. During that season guys that were on the last Calipari roster accounted for 7.4 % of the team's minutes, and if you remove guys that weren't Pastner's recruits it's 2 minutes out of 7075 on the year, or 0.02% And those minutes all came from his guy Wes Witherspoon who, again, he recruited to come to Memphis and stay there when cal left.

In 2011-12 his third year he went 26-9, was ranked in the top 25 for the first 5 weeks and had a tough time against his conference schedule again (and against ranked teams with Ls against Michigan, Georgetown x 2, Louisville, and a 31-2 Murray State team. Wesley Witherspoon again acounted for 10.2% of teams's minutes from Cal's roster.

2012 and 2013 he had 0 minutes from Cal's roster and went to the dance two more times with multiple weeks in the top 25, including his only 2 Big Dance wins.

By those metrics he barely got anything out of Calipari roster guys, and got nothing if you take away Will Witherspoon who was a Pastner recruit. So I guess I'm not sure where you have come to this position. It's certainly not from any factual or statistical analysis.

There are plenty of reasons to be critical of this hire, but him only having success with Cal's guys is not one of th

People point to Pastners last 2 years as being week but forget he was going through phoney NCAA and other allegations that were lies and bullshit but still effected recruiting and focus.

 

[TimothyC3]

I never really understood this narrative because it's just wrong. I'm still somewhere in the B- to C+ range on the hire, so don't take this so much as me defending Pastner, but this is just for discussion. The wheels fell off with Pastner for the last 2 years at Memphis. That much I think everyone can agree on (and by wheels falling off, I mean Kevin Kruger type seasons). His biggest issues were putting together a cohesive roster and getting the most out of his talent. He struggled in a tougher AAC conference (in 2013 for example UConn, Louisville, and Cincinatti were the marquee teams in the conference and UConn won the chip that year) but he also lost head scratcher games and struggled to get NBA results out of a bunch of NBA recruits he had on the squad. That's not the position I'm arguing. The position I'm arguing is that he didn't ride Cal's players to his successes at Memphis.

In 209-10 in his first year he went 24-10, was unranked all year, lost a heartbreaker in the CUSA opening round and went 1-1 in the NIT. He was never ranked in the top 25. During that season guys that had played on Cal's last team accounted 63.5% of the minutes played--and if you factor in the 2 guys who were Pastner recruits who stayed with him instead of following Cal to UK it was 35.3%. I chose minutes but if you pick points or hustle stats it becomes even more weighted against Cal's roster having big impact. You also have to understand that him retaining his highly recruited players (in this case Wes Witherspoon and Roburt Sallie) was part of the reason he got the job. But let's go with the high end to steel man your take.

In 2010-11 his second year he went 25-10, was ranked in the top 25 for the first 8 weeks of the season before struggling in early conference games, won the CUSA tournament and got a 12 seed and lost by 2 to a 5 seed Arizona. During that season guys that were on the last Calipari roster accounted for 7.4 % of the team's minutes, and if you remove guys that weren't Pastner's recruits it's 2 minutes out of 7075 on the year, or 0.02% And those minutes all came from his guy Wes Witherspoon who, again, he recruited to come to Memphis and stay there when cal left.

In 2011-12 his third year he went 26-9, was ranked in the top 25 for the first 5 weeks and had a tough time against his conference schedule again (and against ranked teams with Ls against Michigan, Georgetown x 2, Louisville, and a 31-2 Murray State team. Wesley Witherspoon again acounted for 10.2% of teams's minutes from Cal's roster.

2012 and 2013 he had 0 minutes from Cal's roster and went to the dance two more times with multiple weeks in the top 25, including his only 2 Big Dance wins.

By those metrics he barely got anything out of Calipari roster guys, and got nothing if you take away Will Witherspoon who was a Pastner recruit. So I guess I'm not sure where you have come to this position. It's certainly not from any factual or statistical analysis.

There are plenty of reasons to be critical of this hire, but him only having success with Cal's guys is not one of them.

Thanks for taking the time to point out the facts and this untrue narrative. CP won with his players at MU.

 

[rebel5280]

You take the past into consideration but it should not indict who he is now? He said in the last 2 years, he has been away from the game and that has given him some insight on how to adapt and learn from the past. I think you have to relate to that and see if that is in fact now the case.

Because if so, we have found a good one for UNLV!

Let’s let things play out with recruiting and player development over the offseason and see what happens in November.

I may be in the minority now but I got a feeling about this guy!