USU fired Tim Duryea after being the HC for 3 seasons despite him being with the program for 17 total years. In his 3 years as HC he won just 22 conference game and of course didn't make the NIT or NCAA tournament. Menzies at UNLV has won 21 conference games in 3 years and of course hasn't made the NCAA or even the NIT in those 3 years. Does UNLV have lower standards than USU? They will be saying yes if they keep Menzies another year.
Does UNLV have lower standards than USU?
- Thread starter DaUwillRiseAgain
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Another false narrative. First, we have no idea why USU fired their coach. Second, CMM cannot be held 100% accountable for that first year when he arrived after ulnv's roster was obliterated by the botched firing/hiring of a b-ball coach. So he has had two not so successful years. Let's see how this year ends before proclaiming his stint as a total disaster.
I have no idea if CMM gets more time or not, and to be honest, I have no skin in that game. The AD gets paid the big bucks to make these sorts of decisions. I assume the trigger will be pulled or not after the season ends.
I have no idea if CMM gets more time or not, and to be honest, I have no skin in that game. The AD gets paid the big bucks to make these sorts of decisions. I assume the trigger will be pulled or not after the season ends.
Don’t blame you for that one either.And happily so
Knowing certain things can make it much worse.
Let's see how the season ends at least. It's disingenuous to say Menzies had three years when everyone knows his first year should be qualified by the fact he was left with 3 scholarship players(only Morgan and Poyser started, 22 games and 1 game respectively) and a very late start recruiting-wise. Mind you I'm not defending Menzies so much as advocating he have a fair chance which imo is three years. Quick question, who here thought Kruger would turn it around after 2 straight mediocre seasons(17-14, 17-13, no postseason)? I don't believe from what I've seen so far that Menzies will turn it around and get us to a postseason next year but that's the point. I didn't think Kruger would either. Give him a fair shot, show other potential coaching candidates that they will get a fair shot if they are hired by UNLV, and if the team is floundering again in 3rd place or worse in the MWC with no solid chance of an at-large bid then by all means, let Menzies go and put together an organized, ambitious(but realistic) search for his replacement.
If you think his first year counts then go ahead, pull the trigger and dump Menzies. I hope to God someone with money has a line on an incredible hire. What I've seen from the power brokers at UNLV does not give me much hope. They're the same ones that gave us that crappy scoreboard from a few years ago and thought that a former video tape coordinator was a better choice for interim coach over a guy with NBA playing and assistant coaching experience.
JoJo was streaky, but he was able to start even over the next recruiting class. And Jordie was brought in for first class, sat out, started year two. Troy showed many signs, but bolted after year 1.
Not sure if this speaks more about me or the state of the program, but I had to look up what player we had named Troy.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/186442/troy-baxter
It’s the program. I can’t tell you the home town or numbers of any of the guys.
But without looking it up I can tell you Barry Young was from Ellicot City, Maryland and wore #33. Dude barely played, probably averaged less than 6 ppg.
Oh yeah, Noah and Nick are from Vegas.
Tim Duryea was an assistant under the previous regime at USU so he did deserve more of the blame for the state of Utah State's program when he took over compared to Menzies who definitely came into a bad spot. I have said Rice still rates worse for me than Menzies since he took over a well oiled machine and ran it into the ground.
However Menzies has been here for 3 years and while the tournament may not have been realistic until his 4th year, we don't look like we are on pace for that. We also have a ton of inexcusable losses this year that should be wins right now. Good basketball coaches can turn around programs quickly. Look at Utah State who has been bad for many years and with a new coach are looking at the tournament in his first year. Menzies had a team capable of going to the dance last year and his team went 8-10 in the league and failed to even make the NIT.
The crowd is another factor that will lead to Menzies being gone. There is no buzz, no excitement, no fan support and no butts in the seats. If Menzies had some young players people were excited about, maybe he would get a 4th year. Unfortunately UNLV is a dead ender with the majority of its fanbase and it certainly isn't creating new fans right now.
However Menzies has been here for 3 years and while the tournament may not have been realistic until his 4th year, we don't look like we are on pace for that. We also have a ton of inexcusable losses this year that should be wins right now. Good basketball coaches can turn around programs quickly. Look at Utah State who has been bad for many years and with a new coach are looking at the tournament in his first year. Menzies had a team capable of going to the dance last year and his team went 8-10 in the league and failed to even make the NIT.
The crowd is another factor that will lead to Menzies being gone. There is no buzz, no excitement, no fan support and no butts in the seats. If Menzies had some young players people were excited about, maybe he would get a 4th year. Unfortunately UNLV is a dead ender with the majority of its fanbase and it certainly isn't creating new fans right now.
I’ll agree with most of it.
Rice started with more than Menzies, but he delivered way more and Menzies has delivered less than anybody ever has.
Kruger’s players year one, yes, NCAA tournament and a huge win over Carolina. With a very uptempo style and we dominated.
Year two, Bennett/Birch/Jones, etc, yes we had Marshall and he was a key, but those three guys that spent time in the NBA had talent. It flamed out in the NCAAT, but along the way some good wins and fun basketball that brought in crowds and UNLV’s highest seeding since Tark - yeah, they blew it in the tourney. Still, far, far more meat than what we’ve experienced lately.
Even the rocky, tumultuous year where he was in the hotseat before being fired midseason, we fully controlled a S16 team in Indiana and we had our way with an Elite 8 team in Oregon.
A big part of it is falling short of high expectations vs hitting or falling below low expectations. The gap between expectations and reality were larger under Rice than the gap between expectations and reality with Menzies. And that feels way more disappointing. The current way breeds apathy.
Was it good enough? No, that’s why he’s not here. But if doing a lot more (with more) isn’t good enough, what’s doing a lot less with far less competition and expectations get you?
The rest of it, yeah, spot on. Nobody is responding to the team. People aren’t showing up, they aren’t spending money and we are losing in waves and setting futility records while doing it.
Do they go out into the community,do they have special events to get to know the players, can we go to preseason scrimmages or games,are they televised , is there any hype at all.
Do they go out into the community,do they have special events to get to know the players, can we go to preseason scrimmages orgames,are they televised , is there any hype at all.
Rebelfan - You just added another reason why Menzies needs to be FIRED! He has done nothing to hype people up to go to the games. I asked my son last week if he wanted to go to the SDSU game, and he said no because UNLV sucks. My son was a huge UNLV fan, and now he doesn't even want to watch the team at all, which I expect is how most people feel about the state of the program under coach Menzies. If they don't change coaches, and find a coach who can fire up the program and the fans, then they better look at where they will be making huge cuts in all of the athletic department programs over the next couple of years.
It all started with the exhibition in Puerto Rico. It was a planned stream back to us.
That stream never happened. I guess the team wasn’t for the fans eyes.
Yep apathy above anything else will get Menzies fired. The lack of wins is a big reason for that apathy, but if somehow people were excited about the team and excited about the future he might get another year. Nobody cares and nobody is excited for next year. There is no feeling of; "Hey yeah we are struggling this year, but look at this player and that player. We are gonna be great next year!" You don't see or hear it.
Menzies has improved his conference record each year; 4-14, 8-10, 10-8, but the conference is terrible and the stands are empty so that won't buy him any additional time.
Menzies has improved his conference record each year; 4-14, 8-10, 10-8, but the conference is terrible and the stands are empty so that won't buy him any additional time.
I've never understood this logic that a coach needs a certain amount of time, 3 years or 4 years. You can tell in the first season what trajectory a team/coach has. By year two that trajectory is more apparent. By year three it is obvious where you are going. It's not as if in the third or fourth year something radically changes. Of course Menzies had a difficult start, you obviously account for this. It doesn't mean you throw that season out the window and insist it means nothing. Look at Chris Beard. he started out every season with a brand new team and he coached them up and they got better over time. Over three seasons what is Marvin Menzies trajectory?? Its not upward. That much is apparent. He's shown what he has to offer, and it is not much. Theres nothing left to discuss.
I give Menzies a pass for year one, but seasons 2 and 3 have both been unacceptable. He is not a coach that will ever have real success at unlv.
Overall season 2 was acceptable, even with the crash at the end of the season, but season 3 has been a huge drop off from season 2, and shows the program is not going in the right direction. The other issues are the team continues to start out slow forcing them to fight back into the game, and that they get blown out by any half decent teams.
Yep and tonight will probably be another blowout. As bad as CSU is, this would be UNLV's most impressive win of the season if they could pull it out.
And no that is not saying much.
And no that is not saying much.
LOL, when a win over a 12 win program is impressive, it is actually saying ALOT. It’s a bad team with a bad record and SHOULD BE a win. Only in the Menzizoic era could this be considered an impressive win. We will be chalking up yet another win against a sub 500 team. It will be our 14th against such teams. With only 2 vs above 500 teams and they aren’t even strong above 500 teams, Hawaii and BYU.
Yep I was wrong, but it is a sad state of affairs where I (and you were too if you admit it) was surprised by a win against a bad team like CSU.
No. I honestly wasn’t surprised. I expected to win.
I wouldn’t have been surprised with a loss, either.
These are bad teams that we are beating.
I think one of the major reasons for the lack of excitement is the repeated letdowns we had with Rice. Rice would bring in top 5 recruiting classes, we would see promise early in the season, the team would compete with (and sometimes even beat) a team like Arizona and there would be excitement, and then things would completely collapse in conference play. It happened over and over again.
The conference was much weaker at the end of Rice’s time here and he was even farther away from winning it. His teams often got worse as time went on.
After those years with Rice, Menzies needed to win to bring excitement and I suspect a lot of fans have more pessimism and a wait and see attitude with the team. And that first year set the tone and probably had fans thinking it would be a while before we see any results. Nothing has happened since that would change that opinion.
Also, the Golden Knights had so much unexpected success right away as an expansion team, and have given people in Vegas something to be excited about. UNLV hasn’t given the town that type of optimism and excitement since Tarkanian, and the hockey team has probably distracted people from the basketball team.
The conference was much weaker at the end of Rice’s time here and he was even farther away from winning it. His teams often got worse as time went on.
After those years with Rice, Menzies needed to win to bring excitement and I suspect a lot of fans have more pessimism and a wait and see attitude with the team. And that first year set the tone and probably had fans thinking it would be a while before we see any results. Nothing has happened since that would change that opinion.
Also, the Golden Knights had so much unexpected success right away as an expansion team, and have given people in Vegas something to be excited about. UNLV hasn’t given the town that type of optimism and excitement since Tarkanian, and the hockey team has probably distracted people from the basketball team.
There are a ton of different factors leading to the rapid decline of interest and actual bodies in the seats. Like wins or losses, that ultimately falls on the coach. Whatever it is they need to do go get people into the seats - win, be ultra competitive, play a tough schedule, some great individual players, great opponents, memorable games ... whatever... it’s up to the coach to provide it so the fans buy into the program. None of that happened. In fact, the philosophy used (play nobodies and try to pile up the wins) drove fans away, especially with losing to some patsies.
A huge mistake of Rice was elevating expectations that were already unrealistic. Through recruiting success and trying to connect to the past, he had people thinking big things and he was thinking big things. He tried to provide it and it came up short. In retrospect, had he played it like Menzies (playing lesser teams, but doing that recruiting would suffer), he’d probably lasted longer. But the grass is always greener.
Bottom line, there has to be accountability. You can’t keep playing nobodies and lose to them sometimes, and lose to somebodies all the time. You can’t fake it or fudge it, try as you might. It shows hollow.
With Menzies there was never any moment that had me thinking “Wow now this is interesting, maybe the team is going somewhere this year!” The most optimistic way for me to look at it was “Maybe in a year or two we will see significant improvements.” In other words, I wouldn’t have confidence that something would happen THIS year.
Menzies team did show promise at the start of the 17-18 season, but then reality struck fast in conference.
Promise, hmmm ... but please realize... I believe the non conf SOS was around 330 (of 351 teams). So there’s that.
