Austin Ajiake
- Thread starter bcvegaspt
- Start date
Southern Utah University has had 3x more players drafted in the past decade than UNLV. I hope that Austin can break the drought for us! Good luck Austin!
During the seventh round I looked up “best available” players and LB position. No mention at all.
Meanwhile, New Mexico had a player drafted and Kennesaw State did as well. I don’t remember if this was the Kennesaw State dude but an OL got drafted who started college as a low post player, became a TE on the football team, and then converted to OL. If our players can’t beat out a failed low post/TE from small school wherever, I don’t know what to say anymore.
Please don’t tell me that Kennesaw State is a powerhouse and should be playing in the SEC.
Meanwhile, New Mexico had a player drafted and Kennesaw State did as well. I don’t remember if this was the Kennesaw State dude but an OL got drafted who started college as a low post player, became a TE on the football team, and then converted to OL. If our players can’t beat out a failed low post/TE from small school wherever, I don’t know what to say anymore.
Please don’t tell me that Kennesaw State is a powerhouse and should be playing in the SEC.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Panthers?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#Panthers</a> sign UNLV linebacker Austin Ajiake as an undrafted free agent, per a league source</p>— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) <a href="">April 29, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I came here to post that, too.
Hope he sticks. I was just voicing my frustration with being a UNLV fan. Why didn’t I like USC more???
Hope he sticks. I was just voicing my frustration with being a UNLV fan. Why didn’t I like USC more???
When is the last time UNLV had a player drafted? I saw Sac St had a player go early to the Patriots.
Ndsu had a second rounder this year. Last year's Ndsu 2nd rounder had a great second half of the season for the packers(Watson). I have seen talk on Ndsu joining Mt west as a football only add.
Its alright. I also have degrees from both schools, and I always wonder why I like being frustrated. Though, I do hope USC crushes reno next season. I might go to that game wearing unlv gear.
Gate City Bank Field at the Fargodome - Facilities - NDSU
The official facilities page for the North Dakota State Bison
gobison.com
Freakin Dallas Suckboys. Didn’t draft a QB. Drafted a scout’s son. Lol, nepotism joke ass organization.
That one I didn't know, but it makes sense. Had to pull it up:
X
UNLV Players Drafted in the NBA - RealGM
UNLV basketball scores, news, schedule, players, stats, photos, rumors, depth charts on RealGM.com
basketball.realgm.com
McCaw and Zimm 2016. Dang....
Every year, or many years, it seems like UNLV has fringe guys for the football draft. I always hope that someone will take a Rebel just to end that streak. Especially in the 3 years the Raiders have been here... LVR has defensive needs across the field and Plant & Ajiake, being clearly the best defensive players at UNLV, seemed like good options/opportunities to end the drought.
Alas, another year.
That’s why I was frustrated in round 7. If Small School Wherever State can get someone who is a converted low post player/TE/OL taken then we have to be able to luck into someone’s name being called, even if it was an accident.
With a guy who has D1 experience under his belt and not low D1 experience … a guy that has had players go to the league, I’m sure that will change in the near future for UNLV.
For hoops, perhaps. We certainly no longer have the ability to beat out blue blood schools for top 50 players like we did in the recent past, so it won’t be from the high school ranks. Had Williams stayed, perhaps? But we don’t get pro level players that are seniors. We could pick up a high ceiling transfer that has underperformed and he blossoms here in his one year.
But every coach at UNLV has put players in the league via the draft, no? Spoon, Bayno, Rice, yes. Rollie gets lucky with JR Rider. We don’t have to mention Tark. Lou A was under Spoon, then LK and he made it, but wasn’t drafted. Did LK have others? I don’t think so. It was a long stretch, maybe I’m missing somebody. Menzies didn’t, Otz didn’t, Kevin hasn’t.
Do pros equate to wins? No. But the elevate your odds, they draw excitement, put butts in seats. I actually prefer fringe type NBA guys (McCaw) rather than can’t misses (Bennett) because you get more years and you get to see growth and there’s a bit more cohesiveness. One year players … you have to take them if you can get them …. But I’m not crazy about them. Would be better if you had an expected top 25 team and then added a top player than a top 150 team adding a player. I think of that Marion year … such a bland, bland, underachieving year with a high talent.
I just looked it up. 11 ndsu players drafted in last 10 years and 5 of the 11 were drafted in 1st or 2nd round. Fargo is just a place on the flat plains where 2 interstates cross and they have a nice stadium for a small school. That Unlv football is miles behind them is mind blowing.
In both football and basketball being drafted and sticking with teams are 2 different things.
We have had guys undrafted that had better careers than undrafted ones, at least in terms of years played and impact ( not initial salaries).
Obviously talent trumps all, but at least with football coming from a winning program does account for some of that. That is how NDSU is getting players drafted and we have not. They haven't had THAT kind of superior talent vs us.
Of course it would be nice to get guys good enough that teams feel like they have to draft them, or that they look like more than fringe NFL guys coming out of college.
But what is better, an undrafted player with a 5+ year career, or a draft pick that flames out and never gets a second contract?
We have had guys undrafted that had better careers than undrafted ones, at least in terms of years played and impact ( not initial salaries).
Obviously talent trumps all, but at least with football coming from a winning program does account for some of that. That is how NDSU is getting players drafted and we have not. They haven't had THAT kind of superior talent vs us.
Of course it would be nice to get guys good enough that teams feel like they have to draft them, or that they look like more than fringe NFL guys coming out of college.
But what is better, an undrafted player with a 5+ year career, or a draft pick that flames out and never gets a second contract?
Couldn't agree with the sentiment more. Just hate that UNLV has the longest FBS "no picks" streak. After that's off the books, a pick every 2-3-4 years is enough for me.
My point being, Chris Wood, who went undrafted has probably had the most success as a pro than anyone else since maybe Shawn Marion?
Lou Amundson, Derrick Jones Jr, Joel Anthony, most of the undrafted players have had better careers than the drafted ones.
What do you mean?! McCaw has 3? 4? Rings
Just kidding, definitely get what you're saying 😂
Hmmm, I find that statement pretty ridiculous.
JR Rider, Stacey, Greg, Shawn, Marcus, Reggie, Armon, Keon had lesser careers than Joel A, Lou, Derrick, etc????? We’d have to look at number of years played, stats, impact, etc … but I don’t think you are correct with “probably”.
I accepted this as more recent data and post glory days. More modern era "UNLV isn't in the conversation every year" timeline
Sure, if you are going to compare Chris Wood to Anthony Bennett, makes sense. I took it to mean all UNLV players.
Chris Wood has had a better career than anyone drafted since Shawn Marion. That is my point. Look at his production, starts, minutes, etc.
Not counting Tark era or JR (who was a Tark recruit, no?)
Derrick Jones and Joel have had similar if not better careers than Banks and McCaw, and definitely better than Bennett, Zimm, Vaughn, etc.
How is that ridiculous?
It's so tough to compare things like who was more successful because what do you base it on? Stats? Minutes? Longevity? Starts? Roles on winning teams? Advanced metrics? Eye test? Per game or per minute? If stats do you use raw? Per 36? Per 48? Per 100 possessions. Do we adjust based on league averages from their era? I think these comparisons are always a little more complicated than we think they are.
I think Chris Wood has had the best 4 year stretch of any UNLV player from an offensive statistic standpoint since The Matrix. But he plays no defense which is why he never sticks anywhere and can't stay a regular starter. Generally if you have a 6'11" stretch 4 who can very easily get you 15 and 7 he's a guy that you try and hold on to in the NBA. Especially if they are shooting above 35% from 3. I think the argument that he's had the best career of anyone from UNLV since Marion is tenable. I think you'd have to try to pull some extrapolation to try to get around that.
But if we apply that same lens to say DJJR, his stats are SUPER similar to Marcus Banks across a ton of metrics. Derrick Jones Jr has a hair edge, probably. But he also played in a different NBA era where defensive metrics are down across the entire league by a statistically significant amount. If he's 2% better than Marcus Banks offensively but defenses are 5% worse, is he then automatically better?
Keon Clark was a Bayno guy drafted in the 1st round and had a s statistically better career than DJJ in most raw statistical categories (except starts). So that does put a a 6'11" 185 lbs hole in the argument you're making there.
But overall I don't think what you're saying is ridiculous. I think it's an opinion with some substantial support, but it isn't the only way to look at things.
I think Chris Wood has had the best 4 year stretch of any UNLV player from an offensive statistic standpoint since The Matrix. But he plays no defense which is why he never sticks anywhere and can't stay a regular starter. Generally if you have a 6'11" stretch 4 who can very easily get you 15 and 7 he's a guy that you try and hold on to in the NBA. Especially if they are shooting above 35% from 3. I think the argument that he's had the best career of anyone from UNLV since Marion is tenable. I think you'd have to try to pull some extrapolation to try to get around that.
But if we apply that same lens to say DJJR, his stats are SUPER similar to Marcus Banks across a ton of metrics. Derrick Jones Jr has a hair edge, probably. But he also played in a different NBA era where defensive metrics are down across the entire league by a statistically significant amount. If he's 2% better than Marcus Banks offensively but defenses are 5% worse, is he then automatically better?
Keon Clark was a Bayno guy drafted in the 1st round and had a s statistically better career than DJJ in most raw statistical categories (except starts). So that does put a a 6'11" 185 lbs hole in the argument you're making there.
But overall I don't think what you're saying is ridiculous. I think it's an opinion with some substantial support, but it isn't the only way to look at things.
He was moved from Houston because they are trying to tank, and they couldn't justify benching him for Sengun because he was the better player. I live here, trust me.
Chris Wood still doesn't have the greatest attitude, so I will give you that. But he gets minutes, he puts up numbers. He is flawed, but he has a career and he likely continue because he can score in the league. Similiar to JR Smith.
Longevity matters in terms of careers. First rounders will always have a job throughout their rookie contract because it is guaranteed. It's the second and third contract that are telling.
Assuming he plays his second year, he is under contract, DJJ will play more career NBA games than both Keon and Banks next year. 8/6 pts a game vs 6/3 points a game is not a huge difference especially given their positions. It is better but comparable to say the least. DJJ earned his contract(s) and didn't get token years due to being drafted.
I've heard this argument, and I'm sure there's some validity to that behind the scenes. But they finished with a better record this year than last year and neither of them were very good. If you make the argument they're trying to keep salary low while tanking it makes sense because he wasn't going to be cheap--but they improved in the post Wood world. I don't particularly think Houston is a well-run franchise right now, but tanking requires you to get worse.
I wasn't trying to crap on Chris, so if I came across that way then that's my bad. He will always find a home as long as he can shoot +35% from the three, but I don't know that he'll ever be an all-star player or top 50 NBA player. Nothing wrong with that. He's going to very easily be a 20 million a year guy this off-season I think. But I also think like a lot of those offensive forward guys (Lou Williams, Danilo Gallinari, etc) they'll always be wanderers because defense doesn't matter until the post-season and then it's super important.
That's why I said it was complicated, it seemed like you were making a raw statistical component, but now that there's a counter to that longevity matters. As things stand right now both Keon and Marcus have played in more games than DJJ, and all three guys didn't get a super lucrative 2nd or 3rd contract--I don't know that I want to compare them as raw or adjusted for inflation or as a % of the salary cap but their all in the same neighborhood.
I don't know what you mean, this was his second year (well, 1.5th if we're being technical) in Chicago, and this past year his numbers went down across the board and he dealt with multiple injuries. I think you're right that he will pass Marcus and Keon in games played next year and probably in total points and rebounds as well but I"m not sure that will put him head and shoulders above either of those other guys, especially if I just poo poo it by saying 'well, 25% more of a thing isn't really a huge difference' like you've done with his PPG above. I'm not trying to sounds shitty, but it does sort of feel like you're moving the goal posts a bit here which is super weird because I thought I agreed with about 90% of your post.
I also take a bit of umbrage at the 'draft picks don't earn minutes' take. Most NBA squads don't play into sunk cost fallacy, at least if the coaches and GM want to keep their jobs.
I'm more of an advanced analytics guy. I like to use per 100 possessions when evaluating averages and comparing players, and then I like at PER, WS/48, VORP, and BPM--especially when comparing super similar lengths of careers reasonably close G/minutes. So here are those three guys made anonymous and looking at the stats that I like to look at when comparing careers. All pretty dang close together. I think you would have a very hard time saying one is clearly better than the other.
| Player | Career Points/100 | Career Rebounds/100 | Career Assists/100 | Career PER | Career WS/48 | Career BPM | Career VORP |
| Player A | 18.8 | 13.7 | 2.1 | 15.4 | 0.110 | - 0.7 | 2.6 |
| Player B | 19.2 | 4.8 | 6.8 | 12.2 | 0.57 | - 2.0 | 0.1 |
| Player C | 16.3 | 8.5 | 1.8 | 13.3 | 0.119 | - 0.7 | 2.1 |
So for me when you say 'it's clear that player X has had a better career than player Y and Z, I don't know that I can agree. You point out that Keon had a shorter career but he actually played 1400 more minutes which is a full 82 game season at 17.1 mpg.
All I'm trying to say is that it's complicated when comparing careers, and you have a sound opinion which isn't wrong, but that doesn't automatically make you right. Because not everyone measures things the same way you do.
Draft picks get priority because they are guaranteed contracts. At least 1st rounders. Undrafted guys are much more expendable. So yes, they earn minutes. If two guys are equal, the draft pick gets the preference every time, simply due to their contract structure. So teams have a bigger investment and need to see what they have in those players before trying to get rid of them and/ eat their contracts.
As for tanking, it was the worst kept secret in basketball, then John Wall basically spilled the beans in an interview last year admitting he was asked to "just show up" and ride the bench, even if they new that they would win more games with him in the line up. Also dude, they still were tied for the second worst team in the league. Technically "better", but still got a lotta balls in that lottery. Watch this upcoming season. They spent money on a big time coach, they'll have another lottery pick and their GM is on thin ice. The win total is going to jump up big time.
And sorry, 8 vs 6 points per game is negligible. Calling that a 25% difference is very misleading. We aren't talking 15 vs 20 here. one bucket a game.
There are 1000 ways to look at stats, and I'll admit I haven't gotten into to much of advanced stats. And I will agree some of them have more value than traditional stats. But still its tough to really measure player worth and impact. There are elements of a team game that is tough to measure statistically. That's why I am prioritizing longevity as worth. The longer the career indicates that player has worth and deserves a roster spot and a contract.
And this goes back to my original point, that it isn't as simple as drafted vs undrafted guys. The fact we are in the weeds on this further strengthens that point. Recently our undrafted guys have at least done as well, if not better than our recent drafted players. Especially since you bring up Banks ( who is my age, I actually played him in youth basketball back in the day, lol). Bringing up 40 somethings as our last quality draft picks is telling in itself.
Bottom line, I would love to see more UNLV players drafted in football and basketball, with actually more priority in football. Basketball? These days youth is prioritized and not necessarily the best college basketball players. If we stay upperclassmen heavy, but start winning tourney games that trumps a one and done player on a non tourney team.
Football doesn't prioritize youth as much, and typically they go after the best college players, though body type does skew that somewhat.
I don't want to get too much further in the woods on this. I do agree with like 90% of your take. I just found someone who I found to be statistically superior given a similar NBA career who was a draft pick in the time frame you set down of post-Tark. At any point you could have just said, 'Yeah, maybe that one guy is the outlier, I think after a few seasons that might sort itself out' and we could have high fived and been done with it. I didn't pick this position to try and make you look bad, or to say you're wrong just to try and get you to see a different paradigm. The only reason I got into this any further is that it felt like you waved your hand at my reasoning and got to change your parameters so that they suited your position further when I was providing what I felt to be a valid rebuttal to your position. Moving goal posts will always sort of get me in a bickering mood. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but that's what it seemed like was happening.
I think I'm okay at this point agreeing with you at 90% and we can both agree that Michael Jordan was not a top 100 basketball player because of longevity![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
I think I'm okay at this point agreeing with you at 90% and we can both agree that Michael Jordan was not a top 100 basketball player because of longevity
We're good. And to clarify my main point that I think Wood has had the best career, an undrafted player. As for the others, I think they have mostly been comparable, but in general our undrafted players have done better especially in the past 15 years. That's why I was a little more dismissive of Banks and Keon, not the stats themselves more of a recency thing.I don't want to get too much further in the woods on this. I do agree with like 90% of your take. I just found someone who I found to be statistically superior given a similar NBA career who was a draft pick in the time frame you set down of post-Tark. At any point you could have just said, 'Yeah, maybe that one guy is the outlier, I think after a few seasons that might sort itself out' and we could have high fived and been done with it. I didn't pick this position to try and make you look bad, or to say you're wrong just to try and get you to see a different paradigm. The only reason I got into this any further is that it felt like you waved your hand at my reasoning and got to change your parameters so that they suited your position further when I was providing what I felt to be a valid rebuttal to your position. Moving goal posts will always sort of get me in a bickering mood. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but that's what it seemed like was happening.
I think I'm okay at this point agreeing with you at 90% and we can both agree that Michael Jordan was not a top 100 basketball player because of longevity
But I will say it is difficult to statistically analyze a team sport like basketball. There are still unmeasurable factors that are hard to account for. Daryl Morey has had some pretty good success with relying on advanced stats for roster construction, but has had difficulty winning playoff series. There is still something missing, even today. Earning roster spots over time, with yes some extra points for undrafted players since they do have a huge disadvantage means the most to me. Obviously if a player is making all star teams and is globally accepted as a top player, that changes things. But unfortunately that has not been a factor, really since Marion.
