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11 wins with qbs that are probably in bottom 25% as far as throwing

saulpaul21

UNLV Hall of Fame
Apr 18, 2006
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Amazing we won 11 games with qbs that were so bad at passing. Offense the year before was way better at consistently moving the ball. Our stats only look good cuz of the big plays we had this year.

Last years qb with this year's team? I think we would be undefeated and in Boises spot. Anyone think different?
 
Hard to criticize Hajj, like Sluka, his numbers were not good in terms of percentages in completions.

BUT when we needed a play, they made it happen. The other thing is, Hajj was not rattled last night. He was calm cool and collected. That has an impact and Hajj is a good QB for a team built on complementary football (meaning you need a QB to NOT turn the ball over).


So while the stats aren’t pretty, he did his job. Next season will be a different story and CDM did say they are running a spread offense.
 
Amazing we won 11 games with qbs that were so bad at passing. Offense the year before was way better at consistently moving the ball. Our stats only look good cuz of the big plays we had this year.

Last years qb with this year's team? I think we would be undefeated and in Boises spot. Anyone think different?

I do.

We would have been far less effective in the run game.

Maiava puts the ball in danger a lot.

We finish with about the same record.

Hajj struggled down the stretch but saying he couldn't pass when he had a pretty high completion percentage and threw for around 2k yards in 9 games seems kinda harsh.
 
Amazing we won 11 games with qbs that were so bad at passing. Offense the year before was way better at consistently moving the ball. Our stats only look good cuz of the big plays we had this year.

Last years qb with this year's team? I think we would be undefeated and in Boises spot. Anyone think different?
Hard to say. I think we would had have at least one more win. Lets look at QB stats for the three losses.

1 V Syracuse. Hajj played well against Syracuse, he was 21/25 passing for 227 with 57 yards on the ground. Other than the lone interception, I m not sure how much better we could have done there with a passing QB.

2. V Boise. Against Boise went 12/21 with 179 yards with 144 rushing. Here I think another QB might have won this game.

3. @ Boise. 13/28 for 110 yards and 98 on the ground. I think it would have been closer here, but the result would have been the same. Boise's defense was dialed in. Our pass protection was suspect here.
 
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Hard to criticize Hajj, like Sluka, his numbers were not good in terms of percentages in completions.

BUT when we needed a play, they made it happen. The other thing is, Hajj was not rattled last night. He was calm cool and collected. That has an impact and Hajj is a good QB for a team built on complementary football (meaning you need a QB to NOT turn the ball over).


So while the stats aren’t pretty, he did his job. Next season will be a different story and CDM did say they are running a spread offense.
I’d rather had played in the playoff and been smoked …. And that’s what would have happened. Don’t know why he regressed so badly but he ended the season with a Steve Sax or Armani Rogers syndrome.

But was also thinking …. Let’s say we beat Syracuse (OT loss) and beat Boise regular season (tight home loss) and then lost to Boise in the MWC championship …. We’d have likely ended up in the same spot as last night …. A better season overall, much better …. But we’d be feeling a hell of a lot worse.
 
I do.

We would have been far less effective in the run game.

Maiava puts the ball in danger a lot.

We finish with about the same record.

Hajj struggled down the stretch but saying he couldn't pass when he had a pretty high completion percentage and threw for around 2k yards in 9 games seems kinda harsh.
I’m a harsh guy.
 
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Well let’s not forget that most had this team winning 7-8 games. They definitely overachieved.

It looked like Hajj regressed but people don’t realize that Ricky White was almost always blanketed with double coverage. Cain and everyone else had a tough time emerging as a #2 option with drops and bad routes, then there’s Hajj hanging on to the ball too long. There’s a lot that goes into it, but again the number one thing for Hajj was to not turn it over. Complementary football.

Under CDM’s offense, you’ll be required to make a decision in a couple seconds and know where the mismatch is. That’s the whole point of CDMs offense, spreading the Defense and identifying the mismatch. CDM also values accurate passers. So we will see a totally different approach and look next season.
 
Well let’s not forget that most had this team winning 7-8 games. They definitely overachieved.

It looked like Hajj regressed but people don’t realize that Ricky White was almost always blanketed with double coverage. Cain and everyone else had a tough time emerging as a #2 option with drops and bad routes, then there’s Hajj hanging on to the ball too long. There’s a lot that goes into it, but again the number one thing for Hajj was to not turn it over. Complementary football.

Under CDM’s offense, you’ll be required to make a decision in a couple seconds and know where the mismatch is. That’s the whole point of CDMs offense, spreading the Defense and identifying the mismatch. CDM also values accurate passers. So we will see a totally different approach and look next season.
The thing is, many times especially late in the season, he had some easy throws weren’t even close. Yes, he had some drops along the way. But he was way off on some simple wide open passes …. Like a putter with the yips. You could see he didn’t have confidence in his passing. Quicker to run, was slow with reads as it was anyway.

I think we’d have had the same type of year with Maiava, bottom line type of year I mean, but it would have looked different in getting there.

The team had plenty of flaws but made up for it in other ways. To me, that’s coaching, that’s putting your players in the right position to win.
 
Amazing we won 11 games with qbs that were so bad at passing. Offense the year before was way better at consistently moving the ball. Our stats only look good cuz of the big plays we had this year.

Last years qb with this year's team? I think we would be undefeated and in Boises spot. Anyone think different?
The qb’s this year had 25 TD’s and 6 INT’s,
Last years qb’s had 17 TD’s and 12 INT’s
So the qb play wasn’t as bad as you think, yeah less passing yards but the team made it up in rushing yards. Combined total offense this year vs last year there is about 100yd difference.
 
I’d rather had played in the playoff and been smoked …. And that’s what would have happened. Don’t know why he regressed so badly but he ended the season with a Steve Sax or Armani Rogers syndrome.

But was also thinking …. Let’s say we beat Syracuse (OT loss) and beat Boise regular season (tight home loss) and then lost to Boise in the MWC championship …. We’d have likely ended up in the same spot as last night …. A better season overall, much better …. But we’d be feeling a hell of a lot worse.

If UNLV's only loss was to Boise State in the title game, it would have created a nightmare for committee.

UNLV would likely have been ranked top 10 especially with Syracuse beating Miami.

Man, I don't know if they still make it in or not...
 
Do we have stats on first downs this year vs last year? That is where I think it would show that this year's offense did not move the ball consistently. Did they move it in big chunk plays this year? Yes.
 
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The qb’s this year had 25 TD’s and 6 INT’s,
Last years qb’s had 17 TD’s and 12 INT’s
So the qb play wasn’t as bad as you think, yeah less passing yards but the team made it up in rushing yards. Combined total offense this year vs last year there is about 100yd difference.
Complementary football. Also a lot of credit goes to the center, Hasz in directing the line in pass pro.
 
Do we have stats on first downs this year vs last year? That is where I think it would show that this year's offense did not move the ball consistently. Did they move it in big chunk plays this year? Yes.
287 Last year
296 This year

That's from the team website, but I don't believe they added last night's stats in yet. We had 12 yesterday.
 
The qb’s this year had 25 TD’s and 6 INT’s,
Last years qb’s had 17 TD’s and 12 INT’s
So the qb play wasn’t as bad as you think, yeah less passing yards but the team made it up in rushing yards. Combined total offense this year vs last year there is about 100yd difference.
Our running game was a lot better this year which opens up the passing game. Hajj missed a lot of wide open guys Maiava wouldn't have. It would have been different more TD's and more picks but overall he is better than Hajj.
 
Our running game was a lot better this year which opens up the passing game. Hajj missed a lot of wide open guys Maiava wouldn't have. It would have been different more TD's and more picks but overall he is better than Hajj.
A lot of the running stats have to do with Hajj improvising on broken plays which pumped up the numbers. I think half of Marion's playcalls were just **** it, send dudes out on 25 yard patterns and let Hajj figure it out.
 
A lot of the running stats have to do with Hajj improvising on broken plays which pumped up the numbers. I think half of Marion's playcalls were just **** it, send dudes out on 25 yard patterns and let Hajj figure it out.
There’s some truth to that. Offense was supposed to operate differently and not be a complementary/game management offense. Everything Marion was saying last offseason was this will be an attacking offense with emphasis on speed/time.

As the games got more meaningful down the stretch, the more conservative the playcalling got.
 
Maiava leads USC to 28 points in last 19 minutes to pull out win over tex a&m. Yes, when way ahead, maybe our run first qbs were not so bad this year. But when we had to pass, Maiava 5x better than what we had and it would be us and not Boise with the 3 seed had we had Maiava this year.
 
Maiava leads USC to 28 points in last 19 minutes to pull out win over tex a&m. Yes, when way ahead, maybe our run first qbs were not so bad this year. But when we had to pass, Maiava 5x better than what we had and it would be us and not Boise with the 3 seed had we had Maiava this year.
100%.
 
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I don't know, the flipside is the run game takes a pretty significant hit.

Not to mention for all their faults Hajj and Sluka didn't turn the ball over much. We didn't gift teams a lot of extra possessions or short fields with turnovers.

Maiava puts the ball in danger. A lot.

For all the consternation about Hajj' completion percentage. People might want to look at Maiava's before assuming it's significantly better. It's not.

I don't know if our record is much different..
 
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I don't know, the flipside is the run game takes a pretty significant hit.

Not to mention for all their faults Hajj and Sluka didn't turn the ball over much. We didn't gift teams a lot of extra possessions or short fields with turnovers.

Maiava puts the ball in danger. A lot.

I don't know if our record is much different..
Hard to say really to your points but Hajj did have the worst turnover of the year with that crushing pick 6 vs Boise. I think we would be in the CFP but who knows.
 
Hard to say really to your points but Hajj did have the worst turnover of the year with that crushing pick 6 vs Boise. I think we would be in the CFP but who knows.
For the biggest game of the season, that single play completely flipped the momentum.

I can’t recall how much time was left on the clock when we got the ball, or exactly where we started on the field … but I do remember thinking at that moment in time that UNLV should just run out the clock instead of pressing it. For us to get the yards we needed in the time that was left on the clock, it was going to rely on using the air on successive plays. And that was a weak spot for us, especially when the defense no longer has to guess run and the whole quirky formation thing is nullified.

The best and safest way to get chunks we needed would have been Hajj scrambles or even designed runs.

But it’s super easy to Monday morning quarterback.
 
Hard to say really to your points but Hajj did have the worst turnover of the year with that crushing pick 6 vs Boise. I think we would be in the CFP but who knows.

We all do it, we tend to remember gaffes more. But it's not like Maiava didn't throw some that cost Rebs against Kansas in the bowl game.

I'm not suggesting Hajj is a better passer than Maiava, he's not.

But I don't want to read about Hajj's completion percentage and people not realize it's about the same as Maiava's.

Numbers don't tell the whole story but can't ignore them completely. Maiava turns the ball over at a pretty high clip. I think that over the course of the season it's bound to cost you a game. Flip side his arm likely wins us one. So ultimately a wash.
 
Except Hajj is a Super SR and Maiava was a freshman with room to learn and grow. His int number likely comes down when he's not pressed to do as much to win games. His situation at USC wasn't great this year and he was pressed to try and make plays. Hajj knew he didn't have to make a play in most situations. We had incredible field position thanks to our special teams play or defense. In games where we didn't get those plays, he struggled to move the ball. You give Maiava that defense and I agree, we're talking CFP right now.
 
17 td’s 10 INT’s Maiava
19 td’s 5 INT’s HMW
HMW had less yards and completion percentage was a few points lower, but had more td’s and less INT’s when it’s all said and done, those are the numbers that matter. Also HMW had 6 more rushing td’s than Maiava.
HMW didn’t play 3 games so he would have added yards, TD’s, and INT’s (I think that maybe one or two INT’s which would still keep him below JM).
 
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Except Hajj is a Super SR and Maiava was a freshman with room to learn and grow. His int number likely comes down when he's not pressed to do as much to win games. His situation at USC wasn't great this year and he was pressed to try and make plays. Hajj knew he didn't have to make a play in most situations. We had incredible field position thanks to our special teams play or defense. In games where we didn't get those plays, he struggled to move the ball. You give Maiava that defense and I agree, we're talking CFP right now.
Those numbers I posted were Maiavas when he was at UNLV, not his USC numbers.
 
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Except Hajj is a Super SR and Maiava was a freshman with room to learn and grow. His int number likely comes down when he's not pressed to do as much to win games. His situation at USC wasn't great this year and he was pressed to try and make plays. Hajj knew he didn't have to make a play in most situations. We had incredible field position thanks to our special teams play or defjense. In games where we didn't get those plays, he struggled to move the ball. You give Maiava that defense and I agree, we're talking CFP right now.

So it's ok to bring up how Hajj benefitted from the defense gifting him short fields. Seems fair to say Maiava's penchant for turnovers could gift opponents short fields and easy scores no?

Yes I think Maiava's the better QB but I don't think our records different. Maybe we beat Syracuse but we might have lost to Kansas because Maiava throws 3 picks.

I will say with Mullen at HC I would want Maiava. I think he might be able to clean up the picks.
 
Maiava also had 3 picks yesterday that put usc in the hole. His completion rate was bad But he has the ability to make big plays with his arm snd that can get you back in games and win them for you .
 
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Maiava’s greatest quality is no matter the score, he expected he can win. We saw it multiple times where he went down swinging believing until the last second that he had a chance. Sometimes it paid off. Other times, it didn’t. But him believing and making a play can really swing the outcome.
 
Maiava also had 3 picks yesterday that put usc in the hole. His completion rate was bad But he has the ability to make big plays with his arm snd that can get you back in games and win them for you .

No argument there.

I've said since he was here, if he cleans up the decision making he could be a special player. If he doesn't he'll be back in the portal.
 
I only watched the highlights but Maiaiva threw some really bad picks. It will be interesting to see if USC sticks with him or brings in another QB.
 
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So it's ok to bring up how Hajj benefitted from the defense gifting him short fields. Seems fair to say Maiava's penchant for turnovers could gift opponents short fields and easy scores no?

Yes I think Maiava's the better QB but I don't think our records different. Maybe we beat Syracuse but we might have lost to Kansas because Maiava throws 3 picks.

I will say with Mullen at HC I would want Maiava. I think he might be able to clean up the picks.
That's my point. Maiava has been put in 2 positions that aren't great and require him to push and press to keep in the game or win it. That's how he turns the ball over so much. You put him on a team where his abilities are utilized in a way that isn't forget chasing a game or keeping up and he's less likely to turn the ball over by trying to hard. USC wasn't good, they went to him out if desperation to save the season. Just like last night they chased the game and he threw bad passes. Hajj wasn't chasing games until Boise in the Championship game. He wasn't pressed to make big plays and could be much more cautious with the ball. He had a much better defense to protect small leads. It's much easier to play it safe when your set up that way.
 
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That's my point. Maiava has been put in 2 positions that aren't great and require him to push and press to keep in the game or win it. That's how he turns the ball over so much. You put him on a team where his abilities are utilized in a way that isn't forget chasing a game or keeping up and he's less likely to turn the ball over by trying to hard. USC wasn't good, they went to him out if desperation to save the season. Just like last night they chased the game and he threw bad passes. Hajj wasn't chasing games until Boise in the Championship game. He wasn't pressed to make big plays and could be much more cautious with the ball. He had a much better defense to protect small leads. It's much easier to play it safe when your set up that way.
Usc was also missing multiple starters on the O line/ offense in general. Maiava took a lot of hits yesterday.
 
With Maiava you have to live with the picks and at USC where they are thinking CFP playoffs every year, I don’t think you can live with that many interceptions! Also his completion percentage has dropped off a bit and that is also something you have to look at. Riley will probably be bringing in another QB as we speak for spring ball!
 
Maiava leads USC to 28 points in last 19 minutes to pull out win over tex a&m. Yes, when way ahead, maybe our run first qbs were not so bad this year. But when we had to pass, Maiava 5x better than what we had and it would be us and not Boise with the 3 seed had we had Maiava this year.
That football was frozen and our boys did not adapt in Boise. Simple as that.
 
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That's my point. Maiava has been put in 2 positions that aren't great and require him to push and press to keep in the game or win it. That's how he turns the ball over so much. You put him on a team where his abilities are utilized in a way that isn't forget chasing a game or keeping up and he's less likely to turn the ball over by trying to hard. USC wasn't good, they went to him out if desperation to save the season. Just like last night they chased the game and he threw bad passes. Hajj wasn't chasing games until Boise in the Championship game. He wasn't pressed to make big plays and could be much more cautious with the ball. He had a much better defense to protect small leads. It's much easier to play it safe when your set up that way.

And why was USC chasing games? Could it be the pick six Maiava threw vs Notre Dame? Was it because he threw 3 picks vs A&M last night?

He makes a lot of poor decisions with the ball. He's young. But if he doesn't clean it up he'll be on the bench or in the portal again. He's capable of putting a team on his back. He's also shown he can keep opponents in the game because he is way to loose with the ball.
 
With Maiava you have to live with the picks and at USC where they are thinking CFP playoffs every year, I don’t think you can live with that many interceptions! Also his completion percentage has dropped off a bit and that is also something you have to look at. Riley will probably be bringing in another QB as we speak for spring ball!

Yep...
 
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