11 teams

[WarthogRebel]

We are currently 6th in the conference.

Of the 11 teams, considering a coaches total record and amount of resources where should CKK be ranked.

 

[Couev]

With the caveat of I don't know exactly how the NIL funds are broken down for basketball, I would say we've probably got top 1-2 facilities (we'd be a solid #1 with a more modern arena). I think expecting consistent top 3 finishes, real Post-season 2/3 years and above .500 in the MWC tourney record are fair expectations. We've been 5th, 7th, 4th, and 6th (still with the tough half of the 2nd half of the schedule coming) with 1/4 post season (and that was NIT, which barely qualifies) and a .333 MWC tourney winning record. I won't get into other things like nonconference strength, momentum killing choke jobs, sub Lon recruiting, and failure to put butts in seats.

It's just not been good enough by any reasonable metric.

 

[Masked_rebel]

We are currently 6th in the conference.

Of the 11 teams, considering a coaches total record and amount of resources where should CKK be ranked.

Argument we've been discussing for decades. There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be a top 2-3 team in the conference every single season. How we haven't won a regular season title since 2000 in the history of this conference has to be an absolute embarrassment to our program. I cant think of another school that has invested the money into the program like we have to have such putrid results and such degradation of fan/community support that people would probably rather attend the arena football or the professional volleyball games than get tickets to a Rebels game... and that doesn't even compare to trying to compete for the Knights crowd.

 

[dcut03]

Argument we've been discussing for decades. There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be a top 2-3 team in the conference every single season. How we haven't won a regular season title since 2000 in the history of this conference has to be an absolute embarrassment to our program. I cant think of another school that has invested the money into the program like we have to have such putrid results and such degradation of fan/community support that people would probably rather attend the arena football or the professional volleyball games than get tickets to a Rebels game... and that doesn't even compare to trying to compete for the Knights crowd.

Part of the problem is that some of the "legacy" stuff with UNLV really doesn't apply anymore.
Should we be be top 2-3 every years simply because of our NIL budget and our facilities? Maybe, that is a pretty good argument.
But part of the "facilities" is home court advantage, and we haven't had that for a while now.
I do think that the mindset of we should be top 3 in the conference and anything else is failure is hurting. Because anything less that a borderline top 25 team means that no fans will show up.
We are what we are, a middling mid major team is a good mid major league, which is having a down year currently.
We don't "deserve" anything. All of our banner years are so old that the statue of limitations on it mattering have expired.
We need a coach that can be successful in this situation and not skip any steps. I think both Rice and CKK have tried to skip steps. Both actually faired well against OOC opponents, but both have suffered to stay competitive in conference. We have had talent to compete in regular season games. Much less scouting occurs there.
This league is good enough that they will be able to gameplan for you, the year over year scouting matters. So if you keep running the same crap, they will have a template to beat it. Sure the personnel changes year over year, but adjustments are easier.
The next coach needs to have some level of flexibility and structure to adapt. The mindset of "we are going to do what we do, and try to stop us" only works if your are A elite at those things ( we have not been) and or have such better talent to overcome it (we haven't had that either). And there isn't a G5 team that can make that formula work anyway.
Even with a leg up on NIL we are not going to be able to overwhelm with talent alone. Those types of players are going elsewhere. We cannot afford them. We need players that fit in really well for a particular system. Sure try to maximize the budget that we have, but we shouldn't try to chase surefire NBA talent either, we need quality depth.

 

[rebel5280]

We should be near the top or at the top!

March is just another month for Rebel basketball and Harper cannot be okay with this. I watched the Wichita State vs. Memphis game yesterday and the Shockers have been down for a few years but they beat Penny and crew at home. Now beating Memphis is not a huge deal even though they were ranked and we did not beat them in comparison but what I did notice is the Wichita State home crowd attendance was amazing and raucous. Our crowd in contrast is a joke and it’s not even close.

I look at other teams who aren’t top 25 but the fans still show up because the team they are watching has a chance at least to be exciting while they play, UNLV, not so much. Kevin has a lot to do with the no interest part because of his lack of coaching, recruiting and playing style is not there. There is no interest in basketball heading into March madness and a change is needed.

I hope the trigger is pulled on getting rid of Kevin in a few weeks!

 

[Masked_rebel]

To put things into perspective... Kansas is still a top 25 team and is having a down year by record for all intents and purposes, and there is a growing voice online calling for Bill Self to retire.... Yes, that is real... Never let your expectations for where we should be drop because the program hasn't performed the way it should. No reason we can be a consistent top 3 team in the conference middling mid-major or not.

 

[rebswin2]

and there is a growing voice online calling for Bill Self to retire.... Yes, that is real...

I can list about 354 D1 schools (maybe all but 10 or so) that would be lined up to take him if KU pushes him out.

 

[dcut03]

To put things into perspective... Kansas is still a top 25 team and is having a down year by record for all intents and purposes, and there is a growing voice online calling for Bill Self to retire.... Yes, that is real... Never let your expectations for where we should be drop because the program hasn't performed the way it should. No reason we can be a consistent top 3 team in the conference middling mid-major or not.

I don't disagree, but expecting that right out of the gate isn't exactly realistic.
Quality mid majors usually have a system or style of play that allows them to compete well enough in conference. That is tough to do right away.
Kruger has tried to bring in quality transfers and roll the ball out without much of a system. That has failed. He has done nearly zero in terms of building any sort of notable system year over year. The one exception to that maybe his defensive scheme, but it is heavily flawed and easily exploited.
To your point, Reno is having just as bad of a year as us, and their fans showed up for our game.
The lingering idea that we are too good for this league, and we should be dominating it IS a part of the problem. Fan support does help create a home field advantage. We could use a bit of a grass roots campaign with the next coach, it is too late for Kevin now. ANd CKK had better support his first year, so it is possible.
We also have to just accept that actually good crowds will not show up until we do something. Like win a game in the NCAAT.

 

[Rebel1986]

Part of the problem is that some of the "legacy" stuff with UNLV really doesn't apply anymore.
Should we be be top 2-3 every years simply because of our NIL budget and our facilities? Maybe, that is a pretty good argument.
But part of the "facilities" is home court advantage, and we haven't had that for a while now.
I do think that the mindset of we should be top 3 in the conference and anything else is failure is hurting. Because anything less that a borderline top 25 team means that no fans will show up.
We are what we are, a middling mid major team is a good mid major league, which is having a down year currently.
We don't "deserve" anything. All of our banner years are so old that the statue of limitations on it mattering have expired.
We need a coach that can be successful in this situation and not skip any steps. I think both Rice and CKK have tried to skip steps. Both actually faired well against OOC opponents, but both have suffered to stay competitive in conference. We have had talent to compete in regular season games. Much less scouting occurs there.
This league is good enough that they will be able to gameplan for you, the year over year scouting matters. So if you keep running the same crap, they will have a template to beat it. Sure the personnel changes year over year, but adjustments are easier.
The next coach needs to have some level of flexibility and structure to adapt. The mindset of "we are going to do what we do, and try to stop us" only works if your are A elite at those things ( we have not been) and or have such better talent to overcome it (we haven't had that either). And there isn't a G5 team that can make that formula work anyway.
Even with a leg up on NIL we are not going to be able to overwhelm with talent alone. Those types of players are going elsewhere. We cannot afford them. We need players that fit in really well for a particular system. Sure try to maximize the budget that we have, but we shouldn't try to chase surefire NBA talent either, we need quality depth.

I do not believe people are looking for anything at the level of borderline top 25, but it is impossible to support a program that struggles to win over teams not even in the top 100. There is a long ways from the current UNLV program that is not even in the top 100 composite and being in the top 25. It should be a slam dunk to be borderline top 25, but that is an impossibility with the past AD's that ran the athletic department. My expectation is that the current AD will make a hire that would put UNLV into a position to be borderline top 25, or even top 25, but a lot of past fans would consider coming back if UNLV was a top 3 program in the MWC, which isn't really a high expectation considering how far the MWC has dropped!

 

[j. spilotro]

Kevin had less pressure than any coach I recall. Nothing was expected, rope was given. You rarely don’t hear boos at the Mack. Spoon got them, Bayno got them, Rollie got them, Lon got them, Dave got them, Marv got them. I think Otz, Grg and KK didn’t get the boos from the home attending crowd. I’m talking about at a noticeable level to where you feel embarrassed. The vitriol at Marv, Bayno, Rice, Rollie was far more intense.

Compare to any other coaches that have been here for 3 plus years …. He’s bunk mates with Marv. Which is really depressing. Spoons teams did not do well, they were NIT teams that made it into the MWCT finals every year. That’s still better.

I don’t think fans have been impatient, they are just very low in number. He hasn’t been supported but there is no palpable frustration with him outside of a few.

We aren’t losing by 22 to mediocre teams because our fans are big meanies. We aren’t dropping 4 in a row because the crowd is sparse. There’s always major deflection from completely unacceptable losses. I don’t get it. If you have no standards, fine, just state it, it’s the only thing that makes any sense to me. The coach lovers who see zero fault ever with a staff and blame the surrounding situation as the primary reason … lol.

I want Kevin to win, I don’t like coaching changes …. But zero faith because exactly zero evidence of anything of substance. Guess what? He stays, recruiting stays bland, strategy stays the same, effort/focus remains hit and miss at best, and the results are the same as they’ve been.

Only completely blind faith would make you think we won’t do the same, 70 maybes and ifs that all need to fall your way.

I know many dont want it, I’d love to start playing good basketball for a change, win the MWCT and dance. But I trust a late night Taco Bell fart after chowing on $20 of that crap.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Kevin had less pressure than any coach I recall. Nothing was expected, rope was given. You rarely don’t hear boos at the Mack. Spoon got them, Bayno got them, Rollie got them, Lon got them, Dave got them, Marv got them. I think Otz, Grg and KK didn’t get the boos from the home attending crowd. I’m talking about at a noticeable level to where you feel embarrassed. The vitriol at Marv, Bayno, Rice, Rollie was far more intense.

Compare to any other coaches that have been here for 3 plus years …. He’s bunk mates with Marv. Which is really depressing. Spoons teams did not do well, they were NIT teams that made it into the MWCT finals every year. That’s still better.

I don’t think fans have been impatient, they are just very low in number. He hasn’t been supported but there is no palpable frustration with him outside of a few.

We aren’t losing by 22 to mediocre teams because our fans are big meanies. We aren’t dropping 4 in a row because the crowd is sparse. There’s always major deflection from completely unacceptable losses. I don’t get it. If you have no standards, fine, just state it, it’s the only thing that makes any sense to me. The coach lovers who see zero fault ever with a staff and blame the surrounding situation as the primary reason … lol.

They're more a problem than the fans who verbally and written express their displeasure and frustration at the state of the program. Im tired of a certain portion of the fan base calling out those that are more vocal as lesser fans because we actually give enough of a damn to care that sucking hurts and shouldnt be accepted. Getting told online fans and fan based podcasts are the reason were losing to mediocre teams and that recruits arent signing is exactly what you just said. It contributes more to the slipping of expectations.
I get there's a reality of where we are at. Its not going to change overnight. A good coach and an NCAAT birth will bring back some hope, but its going to take multiple years of wins and competing and not losing games in the last few minutes because of undisciplined mistakes or faulty offenses. But if the expectation isnt to make the NCAAT and be a top 3 program in the MWC every year, then what are we doing?

 

[j. spilotro]

I do not believe people are looking for anything at the level of borderline top 25, but it is impossible to support a program that struggles to win over teams not even in the top 100. There is a long ways from the current UNLV program that is not even in the top 100 composite and being in the top 25. It should be a slam dunk to be borderline top 25, but that is an impossibility with the past AD's that ran the athletic department. My expectation is that the current AD will make a hire that would put UNLV into a position to be borderline top 25, or even top 25, but a lot of past fans would consider coming back if UNLV was a top 3 program in the MWC, which isn't really a high expectation considering how far the MWC has dropped!

Has to be the worst, top 3 worst the Mwc has been since it started.

 

[j. spilotro]

They're more a problem than the fans who verbally and written express their displeasure and frustration at the state of the program. Im tired of a certain portion of the fan base calling out those that are more vocal as lesser fans because we actually give enough of a damn to care that sucking hurts and shouldnt be accepted. Getting told online fans and fan based podcasts are the reason were losing to mediocre teams and that recruits arent signing is exactly what you just said. It contributes more to the slipping of expectations.
I get there's a reality of where we are at. Its not going to change overnight. A good coach and an NCAAT birth will bring back some hope, but its going to take multiple years of wins and competing and not losing games in the last few minutes because of undisciplined mistakes or faulty offenses. But if the expectation isnt to make the NCAAT and be a top 3 program in the MWC every year, then what are we doing?

They’re just avoiding talking about facts, they look to deflect. They’re easily satisfied. They get angry at the wrong party just so they don’t feel like a bad fan. It’s a virtual signaling type of thing. They know they’re wrong, but being wrong is the worst imaginable sin, so they’ll attack the messengers. Anything but talk about what’s messed up.

…. I know my team sucks but I can’t admit it, I know what I’ll do, I’ll blame everyone else. That makes me a good fan because I didn’t criticize. I get my Rebel brownie points …

The problem is, they’re enablers. They enable everything bad. It’s pretty pathetic. I’m assuming you mean that kooky, whacked out MAGA chick on twitter.

 

[UNLVINMD]

Team stinks, style is walk it up, 65 is huge offensive output. If your going to lose at least be exciting, I rater lose 84-82 then crap 61-60 games.

Tell me 1 think this team does well?
Last yr team had talent to win MWC, half decent coach at UNLV wins it. Don't tell me USU had that much better talent?

MWC I'd mid conference. Football getting Odom showed what UNLV can do. No reason to be 14-12 and 8-7 in conference. KK got to go.

 

[j. spilotro]

Team stinks, style is walk it up, 65 is huge offensive output. If your going to lose at least be exciting, I rater lose 84-82 then crap 61-60 games.

Tell me 1 think this team does well?
Last yr team had talent to win MWC, half decent coach at UNLV wins it. Don't tell me USU had that much better talent?

MWC I'd mid conference. Football getting Odom showed what UNLV can do. No reason to be 14-12 and 8-7 in conference. KK got to go.

I think they probably are #1 in the league with inconsistency. Seriously.

 

[dcut03]

Let's be clear here, there is no one saying that Kevin should be retained at this point. I think it is clear that he isn't the answer. Does this team "deserve" to be so poorly attended? I don't think so, but I get it.
My contention has to do more with last year. Sure it started horribly, but there was quality wins too that did not bring fans back, and of course there were a couple more unforgivable losses along the way.
But it was the best season in a decade, we had very good finish in conference which was arguably the best it has ever been last year. It was at very least the deepest it has ever been.
Because of that, I think Kevin deserved his 4th year. I still feel that way. But he had to do what was necessary to improve off the mistakes of the previous year, which isn't a crazy thing to expect. He didn't, and here we are now.
Finishing 4th in the conference and 7th in attendance is something. Fans are not an issue?
Utah State has been good in 3 consecutive years, with 3 different coaches, with nearly new players every year. They had 8k in Logan show up for their opener. We had an announced 4k (which was obviously significantly inflated) for our opener this year, after our best year objectively in 10 years, with a preseason all conference legacy player returning.
But fans have nothing to do with it?
Here is the burning question, does Utah State do as well with 1500 fans in the building? I would say no. Home court plays a role.
My point being is that Utah State fans show up regardless of opponent. Sure there is nothing to do there, but Vegas is big enough, with a big enough alumni base in the city where you would expect much, much better. But we don't have the diehards anymore.
Fans at this point will only come back with major change in success. It is basically what football used to be at this point. It took a ranking and playoff talk for fans to really show up. I think it will take something similar for basketball, although unfortunately we have seen our team get in the rankings then disappoint so many times in basketball that it will take probably more for fans to show up. A MW crown, or tournament champion (after a good year), and really a win in the dance probably will do it.

 

[Masked_rebel]

Let's be clear here, there is no one saying that Kevin should be retained at this point. I think it is clear that he isn't the answer. Does this team "deserve" to be so poorly attended? I don't think so, but I get it.
My contention has to do more with last year. Sure it started horribly, but there was quality wins too that did not bring fans back, and of course there were a couple more unforgivable losses along the way.
But it was the best season in a decade, we had very good finish in conference which was arguably the best it has ever been last year. It was at very least the deepest it has ever been.
Because of that, I think Kevin deserved his 4th year. I still feel that way. But he had to do what was necessary to improve off the mistakes of the previous year, which isn't a crazy thing to expect. He didn't, and here we are now.
Finishing 4th in the conference and 7th in attendance is something. Fans are not an issue?
Utah State has been good in 3 consecutive years, with 3 different coaches, with nearly new players every year. They had 8k in Logan show up for their opener. We had an announced 4k (which was obviously significantly inflated) for our opener this year, after our best year objectively in 10 years, with a preseason all conference legacy player returning.
But fans have nothing to do with it?
Here is the burning question, does Utah State do as well with 1500 fans in the building? I would say no. Home court plays a role.
My point being is that Utah State fans show up regardless of opponent. Sure there is nothing to do there, but Vegas is big enough, with a big enough alumni base in the city where you would expect much, much better. But we don't have the diehards anymore.
Fans at this point will only come back with major change in success. It is basically what football used to be at this point. It took a ranking and playoff talk for fans to really show up. I think it will take something similar for basketball, although unfortunately we have seen our team get in the rankings then disappoint so many times in basketball that it will take probably more for fans to show up. A MW crown, or tournament champion (after a good year), and really a win in the dance probably will do it.

Agree.. Utah St has nothing to do and theres very little competition for their attendance, including on campus support by students.. Also take ticket prices.. You spend 30 bucks for a top level seat at the Mack where you can hardly see the floor, or pay 22 bucks for a ticket at the spectrum where its packed and a close environment with a full arena... makes a huge difference. Back when we were a top 25 team and the arena was full, you had to spend hours waiting just to get a good seat. It absolutely had an affect on the game. A few steals, a 3, a big dunk and all of a sudden were on those 13, 14, 15 point runs to just dominate opponents. It wont be fast, but if we start winning big conference games at home and are in the running for a conference title, it'll draws more students. More students will absolutely make the environment different. Then you follow up one exciting season with another and all of a sudden the year 2 mid-late season crowds start getting to that 10-12k with higher attendance vs Reno, UNM, SDSU.. Realistically competing for a conference title changes attendance.

 

[rebel5280]

I think no fans is an issue when every other poster on revel-net has mentioned there are zero fans at the home games?! There is no home court advantage at the Thomas and Mack at all and isn’t that part of playing home games, I think so!

You can talk about last year and the attendance stats but all that is a result of the nice guy coach and his lack of a plan the last 4 years.

Win and the attendance will change and the game day atmosphere I mentioned will come back, see the football team attendance!

 

[UNLVINMD]

It's poor basketball, even win they win it's not good basketball.

 

[saulpaul21]

Our 6th in the conference is inflated since we have already played AF, Wyo, and Fresno twice and most of the rest haven't yet.

If you ranked coaches in the conference by knowledgeable hoop people I would think CKK would fall near the bottom. This was a year the MWC was entirely winnable and we likely will finish 7th or 8th. Only Henley could be considered close to what he replaced (LRod). With Hill being so bad after injury, surprised we did not try lineups with 2 bigs more often.

 

[UNLVINMD]

The recruiting is garbage. Evans is in Redshirt, tells me alot.